Club Enya
05-01-2012, 09:07 PM
#1401
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RE: Club Enya
G'day
For what it is worth, this is my experience with four strokes (Enya, Saito, OS and Laser).
I used to use what ever fuel my fiends mixed for me. Sometimes I used commercial too. But lately I have been mixing my own. I did not have any problems with this range of fuels though I did notice that all my engines ran a little hotter with fuel which did not contain castor.
When I started using mostly four strokes I bought a commercial "Four Stroke". At the time I was trying to run in an RCV engine. It did not like the commercial fuel at all. It contained about 20% synthetic, 10% nitro and methanol. So then I tried the same manufacturer's "general use" fuel. 10% nitro, 5% castor, 15% synthetic and methanol. The engine was much happier and did not run hot. So I have continued to use this brew in all my engines though these days I mix my own. At $49 for five litres it is just too expensive to buy the commercial stuff. I can make it for about half that.
Then recently I bought a Saito 90R3 radial. I used the usual mixture but it just did not seem to like it. Very little power (I gather they need a lot of running in) and it continually dropped cylinders. So last week I mixed up some fuel with 20% nitro to see if the engine would be happier with this. It was a revelation. No dropped cylinders, no deadsticks and the engine just sounds happier all round.
I am not going to use this fuel in other engines, and I suspect that once the radial is run a bit more on this mixture that I will be able to drop the nitro content but for the moment, it is doing the trick.
The only other exception where I don't use my general brew is for plain bearing engines and old school engines with iron/steel piston and liner setups. They get 20 or even 25% castor.
Mike in Oz
For what it is worth, this is my experience with four strokes (Enya, Saito, OS and Laser).
I used to use what ever fuel my fiends mixed for me. Sometimes I used commercial too. But lately I have been mixing my own. I did not have any problems with this range of fuels though I did notice that all my engines ran a little hotter with fuel which did not contain castor.
When I started using mostly four strokes I bought a commercial "Four Stroke". At the time I was trying to run in an RCV engine. It did not like the commercial fuel at all. It contained about 20% synthetic, 10% nitro and methanol. So then I tried the same manufacturer's "general use" fuel. 10% nitro, 5% castor, 15% synthetic and methanol. The engine was much happier and did not run hot. So I have continued to use this brew in all my engines though these days I mix my own. At $49 for five litres it is just too expensive to buy the commercial stuff. I can make it for about half that.
Then recently I bought a Saito 90R3 radial. I used the usual mixture but it just did not seem to like it. Very little power (I gather they need a lot of running in) and it continually dropped cylinders. So last week I mixed up some fuel with 20% nitro to see if the engine would be happier with this. It was a revelation. No dropped cylinders, no deadsticks and the engine just sounds happier all round.
I am not going to use this fuel in other engines, and I suspect that once the radial is run a bit more on this mixture that I will be able to drop the nitro content but for the moment, it is doing the trick.
The only other exception where I don't use my general brew is for plain bearing engines and old school engines with iron/steel piston and liner setups. They get 20 or even 25% castor.
Mike in Oz
05-01-2012, 09:17 PM
#1402
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RE: Club Enya
ORIGINAL: mike109
G'day
For what it is worth, this is my experience with four strokes (Enya, Saito, OS and Laser).
I used to use what ever fuel my fiends mixed for me. Sometimes I used commercial too. But lately I have been mixing my own. I did not have any problems with this range of fuels though I did notice that all my engines ran a little hotter with fuel which did not contain castor.
When I started using mostly four strokes I bought a commercial ''Four Stroke''. At the time I was trying to run in an RCV engine. It did not like the commercial fuel at all. It contained about 20% synthetic, 10% nitro and methanol. So then I tried the same manufacturer's ''general use'' fuel. 10% nitro, 5% castor, 15% synthetic and methanol. The engine was much happier and did not run hot. So I have continued to use this brew in all my engines though these days I mix my own. At $49 for five litres it is just too expensive to buy the commercial stuff. I can make it for about half that.
Then recently I bought a Saito 90R3 radial. I used the usual mixture but it just did not seem to like it. Very little power (I gather they need a lot of running in) and it continually dropped cylinders. So last week I mixed up some fuel with 20% nitro to see if the engine would be happier with this. It was a revelation. No dropped cylinders, no deadsticks and the engine just sounds happier all round.
I am not going to use this fuel in other engines, and I suspect that once the radial is run a bit more on this mixture that I will be able to drop the nitro content but for the moment, it is doing the trick.
The only other exception where I don't use my general brew is for plain bearing engines and old school engines with iron/steel piston and liner setups. They get 20 or even 25% castor.
Mike in Oz
G'day
For what it is worth, this is my experience with four strokes (Enya, Saito, OS and Laser).
I used to use what ever fuel my fiends mixed for me. Sometimes I used commercial too. But lately I have been mixing my own. I did not have any problems with this range of fuels though I did notice that all my engines ran a little hotter with fuel which did not contain castor.
When I started using mostly four strokes I bought a commercial ''Four Stroke''. At the time I was trying to run in an RCV engine. It did not like the commercial fuel at all. It contained about 20% synthetic, 10% nitro and methanol. So then I tried the same manufacturer's ''general use'' fuel. 10% nitro, 5% castor, 15% synthetic and methanol. The engine was much happier and did not run hot. So I have continued to use this brew in all my engines though these days I mix my own. At $49 for five litres it is just too expensive to buy the commercial stuff. I can make it for about half that.
Then recently I bought a Saito 90R3 radial. I used the usual mixture but it just did not seem to like it. Very little power (I gather they need a lot of running in) and it continually dropped cylinders. So last week I mixed up some fuel with 20% nitro to see if the engine would be happier with this. It was a revelation. No dropped cylinders, no deadsticks and the engine just sounds happier all round.
I am not going to use this fuel in other engines, and I suspect that once the radial is run a bit more on this mixture that I will be able to drop the nitro content but for the moment, it is doing the trick.
The only other exception where I don't use my general brew is for plain bearing engines and old school engines with iron/steel piston and liner setups. They get 20 or even 25% castor.
Mike in Oz
Your 20% - 25% castor sound right to me. There is a fellow that I learned to respect a-lot when it came to engine tuning. His name is Gordon Jennings. He is fairly well known among motocycle enthusiasts. He claimed, from his experience with two cycle engines, that two cycle engines produce their most power with all the oil and fuel you can feed it and still have it run. Or words to that effect.
Cheers,
Bill
05-02-2012, 05:56 PM
#1403
RE: Club Enya
What kind of RPM can I expect from a 13x6 APC on my 60-4C? I'd be using 5% nitro 20%oil at a 50/50 blend most likely.
I did a little break in running today, and I noticed the exhaust gets pretty hot even with a rich mixture. The intake tube from the carb to the manifold had condensation on it. I'm sure this is normal. I took it up to 5000rpm today. It started much better today, and the compression is getting better.
I'm loving it so far. It runs a lot smoother than I thought it would. It vibrates less than any of my 2-strokes. Quite surprising.
I did a little break in running today, and I noticed the exhaust gets pretty hot even with a rich mixture. The intake tube from the carb to the manifold had condensation on it. I'm sure this is normal. I took it up to 5000rpm today. It started much better today, and the compression is getting better.
I'm loving it so far. It runs a lot smoother than I thought it would. It vibrates less than any of my 2-strokes. Quite surprising.
05-02-2012, 06:05 PM
#1404
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RE: Club Enya
I have no idea. I've had no experience with this engine but the Top Flight prop recommendation chart indicates the engine should pull between a 11 x 7 and a 12 x 8 . For break-in you might want to run closer to 11 x 7. Dunno. You'll get some responses from those who do know.
Cheers,
Bill
Cheers,
Bill
05-02-2012, 06:11 PM
#1405
My Feedback: (90)
RE: Club Enya
ORIGINAL: Ram Jet
Most people over tighten everything. If I can get a-little off this thread. I just finished building an RC sailboat (sorry) and It's made of ABS plastic. I turned the self tapping screws until I felt resistance and stopped. On model aircraft engines I do about the same. I have a K&B 3.5 engine that had 4/40 threads in the cylinder head which the previous owner stripped out. The crankcase was junk until I found a hobby shop owner who had 5/40 screws for which I found a 5/40 tap on eBay. I was able to restore the crank case. Just TRY to find a 5/40 thread Allen head cap-screws let alone a 5/40 tap today. Props, I tighten until I feel resistance and then apply another 1/2 turn. You don't need more than that I don't believe. Now for all of you precision freaks you could buy an inch/pound torque wrench?
Cheers,
Bill
ORIGINAL: earlwb
I think many people are trying to over tighten the prop nut more than they should. I have seen people strip the threads off the nuts before too.
Fortunately, most of the time the prop nut strips out and not the crankshaft end, but not always though. Nowadays most people are using plastic composite propellers that can handle over tightening better than the old wood props we used to use. With wood props you pretty much knew when you over tightened the prop nut as it crushed the wood hub on the prop too. So once you got used to how much pressure was needed for the wood props, you found you didn't have to tighten up that prop nut so hard. Of course with the cheap plastic spinners and engine prop driver washers that don't have good serrated edge for gripping slippery spinners or propellers people have been really tightening down on the prop nuts more nowadays. I think the better prop nuts are found for the all metal spinners, as the prop nuts are longer and have more threads on them to grip the crankshaft better.
For 5-40 taps and screws and pretty much everything else us or metric go to www.microfasteners.com you can get everything you need including a 5-40 tap for $4.30 or a 5-40 die for $5.05 and screws from 1/4 to 2 inches.
Dennis
PS I don't work for them I'm a happy customer.
I think many people are trying to over tighten the prop nut more than they should. I have seen people strip the threads off the nuts before too.
Fortunately, most of the time the prop nut strips out and not the crankshaft end, but not always though. Nowadays most people are using plastic composite propellers that can handle over tightening better than the old wood props we used to use. With wood props you pretty much knew when you over tightened the prop nut as it crushed the wood hub on the prop too. So once you got used to how much pressure was needed for the wood props, you found you didn't have to tighten up that prop nut so hard. Of course with the cheap plastic spinners and engine prop driver washers that don't have good serrated edge for gripping slippery spinners or propellers people have been really tightening down on the prop nuts more nowadays. I think the better prop nuts are found for the all metal spinners, as the prop nuts are longer and have more threads on them to grip the crankshaft better.
For 5-40 taps and screws and pretty much everything else us or metric go to www.microfasteners.com you can get everything you need including a 5-40 tap for $4.30 or a 5-40 die for $5.05 and screws from 1/4 to 2 inches.
Dennis
PS I don't work for them I'm a happy customer.
Most people over tighten everything. If I can get a-little off this thread. I just finished building an RC sailboat (sorry) and It's made of ABS plastic. I turned the self tapping screws until I felt resistance and stopped. On model aircraft engines I do about the same. I have a K&B 3.5 engine that had 4/40 threads in the cylinder head which the previous owner stripped out. The crankcase was junk until I found a hobby shop owner who had 5/40 screws for which I found a 5/40 tap on eBay. I was able to restore the crank case. Just TRY to find a 5/40 thread Allen head cap-screws let alone a 5/40 tap today. Props, I tighten until I feel resistance and then apply another 1/2 turn. You don't need more than that I don't believe. Now for all of you precision freaks you could buy an inch/pound torque wrench?
Cheers,
Bill
05-02-2012, 06:51 PM
#1406
RE: Club Enya
The odd sizes like 5x40 screws and stuff are actually quite common with firearms and guns. The gunsmiths use them all the time.
K&B is about the only one still using screws in that size range too. They use them on many of their engines.
K&B is about the only one still using screws in that size range too. They use them on many of their engines.
05-02-2012, 07:00 PM
#1407
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RE: Club Enya
ORIGINAL: earlwb
The odd sizes like 5x40 screws and stuff are actually quite common with firearms and guns. The gunsmiths use them all the time.
K&B is about the only one still using screws in that size range too. They use them on many of their engines.
The odd sizes like 5x40 screws and stuff are actually quite common with firearms and guns. The gunsmiths use them all the time.
K&B is about the only one still using screws in that size range too. They use them on many of their engines.
Thanks,
Bill
05-02-2012, 07:25 PM
#1408
RE: Club Enya
ORIGINAL: Ram Jet
Unfortunately on their 3.5 engines the cylinder head screws are 4x40 at least they were on mine. Good to know about firearms and gunsmiths. I've got a 5x40 tap, all I need is screws.
Thanks,
Bill
ORIGINAL: earlwb
The odd sizes like 5x40 screws and stuff are actually quite common with firearms and guns. The gunsmiths use them all the time.
K&B is about the only one still using screws in that size range too. They use them on many of their engines.
The odd sizes like 5x40 screws and stuff are actually quite common with firearms and guns. The gunsmiths use them all the time.
K&B is about the only one still using screws in that size range too. They use them on many of their engines.
Thanks,
Bill
I fixed a engine recently where the original owner didn't thread the 5x40 holes deep enough for the screws and you couldn't tighten up the back plate.
You can get them from http://www.microfasteners.com/catalo...cts/SSCSCA.cfm
or order from K&B too, as they use them on the 65 engines and likely the 45 engines too.
bottom tap example http://www.engtooling.com/webshop2/c...m-323_1418?p=1
here is a good example of the interesting odd taps and dies they use with firearms.
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/sid=2...655001_d_11628
05-02-2012, 07:39 PM
#1409
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RE: Club Enya
ORIGINAL: earlwb
You also want a bottom tap for the holes in order to thread them closer to the end of the hole.
I fixed a engine recently where the original owner didn't thread the 5x40 holes deep enough for the screws and you couldn't tighten up the back plate.
You can get them from http://www.microfasteners.com/catalo...cts/SSCSCA.cfm
or order from K&B too, as they use them on the 65 engines and likely the 45 engines too.
bottom tap example http://www.engtooling.com/webshop2/c...m-323_1418?p=1
here is a good example of the interesting odd taps and dies they use with firearms.
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/sid=2...655001_d_11628
ORIGINAL: Ram Jet
Unfortunately on their 3.5 engines the cylinder head screws are 4x40 at least they were on mine. Good to know about firearms and gunsmiths. I've got a 5x40 tap, all I need is screws.
Thanks,
Bill
ORIGINAL: earlwb
The odd sizes like 5x40 screws and stuff are actually quite common with firearms and guns. The gunsmiths use them all the time.
K&B is about the only one still using screws in that size range too. They use them on many of their engines.
The odd sizes like 5x40 screws and stuff are actually quite common with firearms and guns. The gunsmiths use them all the time.
K&B is about the only one still using screws in that size range too. They use them on many of their engines.
Thanks,
Bill
I fixed a engine recently where the original owner didn't thread the 5x40 holes deep enough for the screws and you couldn't tighten up the back plate.
You can get them from http://www.microfasteners.com/catalo...cts/SSCSCA.cfm
or order from K&B too, as they use them on the 65 engines and likely the 45 engines too.
bottom tap example http://www.engtooling.com/webshop2/c...m-323_1418?p=1
here is a good example of the interesting odd taps and dies they use with firearms.
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/sid=2...655001_d_11628
Thank you very very much. I'm going to print your post for future reference. I've never used a bottoming tap but am aware of them. Fortunately on my K&B 3.5 the tapped holes in the cylinder terminated between two cooling fins so the borttoming tap wasn't necessary in this instance. I guarantee you I won't strip the new 5x40 threads.
Thanks again,
Bill
05-02-2012, 07:50 PM
#1410
RE: Club Enya
ORIGINAL: Ram Jet
I have no idea. I've had no experience with this engine but the Top Flight prop recommendation chart indicates the engine should pull between a 11 x 7 and a 12 x 8 . For break-in you might want to run closer to 11 x 7. Dunno. You'll get some responses from those who do know.
Cheers,
Bill
I have no idea. I've had no experience with this engine but the Top Flight prop recommendation chart indicates the engine should pull between a 11 x 7 and a 12 x 8 . For break-in you might want to run closer to 11 x 7. Dunno. You'll get some responses from those who do know.
Cheers,
Bill
05-02-2012, 08:12 PM
#1411
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RE: Club Enya
ORIGINAL: 1QwkSport2.5r
The Enya manual says to use a 13x6 ~ 14x6 for break in. I have a 13x7 on it now but I will use a 13x6 later. I was just curious to see what I should expect.
ORIGINAL: Ram Jet
I have no idea. I've had no experience with this engine but the Top Flight prop recommendation chart indicates the engine should pull between a 11 x 7 and a 12 x 8 . For break-in you might want to run closer to 11 x 7. Dunno. You'll get some responses from those who do know.
Cheers,
Bill
I have no idea. I've had no experience with this engine but the Top Flight prop recommendation chart indicates the engine should pull between a 11 x 7 and a 12 x 8 . For break-in you might want to run closer to 11 x 7. Dunno. You'll get some responses from those who do know.
Cheers,
Bill
I could be wrong but I was under the assumption that you should break-in a new engine with a lightly loaded prop. Something closer to the 11 x 7. Someone will help us out here. I commenmd you for your concern on breaking-in your new Enya properly. From what I have read here you will reap great rewards and have an engine with a very long service life.
Cheers,
Bill
05-06-2012, 08:23 AM
#1412
RE: Club Enya
ORIGINAL: Ram Jet
I could be wrong but I was under the assumption that you should break-in a new engine with a lightly loaded prop. Something closer to the 11 x 7. Someone will help us out here. I commenmd you for your concern on breaking-in your new Enya properly. From what I have read here you will reap great rewards and have an engine with a very long service life.
Cheers,
Bill
ORIGINAL: 1QwkSport2.5r
The Enya manual says to use a 13x6 ~ 14x6 for break in. I have a 13x7 on it now but I will use a 13x6 later. I was just curious to see what I should expect.
ORIGINAL: Ram Jet
I have no idea. I've had no experience with this engine but the Top Flight prop recommendation chart indicates the engine should pull between a 11 x 7 and a 12 x 8 . For break-in you might want to run closer to 11 x 7. Dunno. You'll get some responses from those who do know.
Cheers,
Bill
I have no idea. I've had no experience with this engine but the Top Flight prop recommendation chart indicates the engine should pull between a 11 x 7 and a 12 x 8 . For break-in you might want to run closer to 11 x 7. Dunno. You'll get some responses from those who do know.
Cheers,
Bill
I could be wrong but I was under the assumption that you should break-in a new engine with a lightly loaded prop. Something closer to the 11 x 7. Someone will help us out here. I commenmd you for your concern on breaking-in your new Enya properly. From what I have read here you will reap great rewards and have an engine with a very long service life.
Cheers,
Bill
So far I have ran about 1qt + 6-8oz through my 60-4C. 10 minutes at 4000rpm, 10 minutes at 5000rpm, 10 minutes at 6000rpm, and maybe 3-4 minutes at 7000rpm. I ran out of fuel at the park otherwise I would have ran the full 10 minute run at 7k.
My question is this.. When leaning down to peak rpm, do 4-strokes behave in the same fashion as 2-strokes in that the rpm sags a couple hundred rpm when you're a click or two too lean? I heard from a guy I know that 4-strokes tend to just up and quit and not give you much warning that you're too lean. He highly suggested tuning with a tach on the main needle because there is a very narrow "lean band" and if you go one click too far it'll just quit...
I am going to switch to my castor/synthetic 50/50 blended fuel now for one or two more runs at 7k and I want to find peak rpm and richen 1000rpm from that to run it in service for awhile to finish break-in. After the 7-8min at 7000rpm I will let it cool completely and readjust the tappets if needed. I will reset them to .05-.07mm lash. I swapped the 13x7 APC prop out for a 13x6 APC. I have other props that are a lighter load yet but I'm not concerned with testing those until it has a little more time on it.
05-06-2012, 09:00 AM
#1413
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RE: Club Enya
ORIGINAL: 1QwkSport2.5r
On ringed engines, Its not as critical on prop size I dont think. ABN/ABC's benefit from the light load and high rpm but ringed dont need it AFAIK. I think the more critical part of the break-in isnt so much prop size as how you run it and what you run it on. Plenty of good lube is key.
So far I have ran about 1qt + 6-8oz through my 60-4C. 10 minutes at 4000rpm, 10 minutes at 5000rpm, 10 minutes at 6000rpm, and maybe 3-4 minutes at 7000rpm. I ran out of fuel at the park otherwise I would have ran the full 10 minute run at 7k.
My question is this.. When leaning down to peak rpm, do 4-strokes behave in the same fashion as 2-strokes in that the rpm sags a couple hundred rpm when you're a click or two too lean? I heard from a guy I know that 4-strokes tend to just up and quit and not give you much warning that you're too lean. He highly suggested tuning with a tach on the main needle because there is a very narrow ''lean band'' and if you go one click too far it'll just quit...
I am going to switch to my castor/synthetic 50/50 blended fuel now for one or two more runs at 7k and I want to find peak rpm and richen 1000rpm from that to run it in service for awhile to finish break-in. After the 7-8min at 7000rpm I will let it cool completely and readjust the tappets if needed. I will reset them to .05-.07mm lash. I swapped the 13x7 APC prop out for a 13x6 APC. I have other props that are a lighter load yet but I'm not concerned with testing those until it has a little more time on it.
ORIGINAL: Ram Jet
I could be wrong but I was under the assumption that you should break-in a new engine with a lightly loaded prop. Something closer to the 11 x 7. Someone will help us out here. I commenmd you for your concern on breaking-in your new Enya properly. From what I have read here you will reap great rewards and have an engine with a very long service life.
Cheers,
Bill
ORIGINAL: 1QwkSport2.5r
The Enya manual says to use a 13x6 ~ 14x6 for break in. I have a 13x7 on it now but I will use a 13x6 later. I was just curious to see what I should expect.
ORIGINAL: Ram Jet
I have no idea. I've had no experience with this engine but the Top Flight prop recommendation chart indicates the engine should pull between a 11 x 7 and a 12 x 8 . For break-in you might want to run closer to 11 x 7. Dunno. You'll get some responses from those who do know.
Cheers,
Bill
I have no idea. I've had no experience with this engine but the Top Flight prop recommendation chart indicates the engine should pull between a 11 x 7 and a 12 x 8 . For break-in you might want to run closer to 11 x 7. Dunno. You'll get some responses from those who do know.
Cheers,
Bill
I could be wrong but I was under the assumption that you should break-in a new engine with a lightly loaded prop. Something closer to the 11 x 7. Someone will help us out here. I commenmd you for your concern on breaking-in your new Enya properly. From what I have read here you will reap great rewards and have an engine with a very long service life.
Cheers,
Bill
So far I have ran about 1qt + 6-8oz through my 60-4C. 10 minutes at 4000rpm, 10 minutes at 5000rpm, 10 minutes at 6000rpm, and maybe 3-4 minutes at 7000rpm. I ran out of fuel at the park otherwise I would have ran the full 10 minute run at 7k.
My question is this.. When leaning down to peak rpm, do 4-strokes behave in the same fashion as 2-strokes in that the rpm sags a couple hundred rpm when you're a click or two too lean? I heard from a guy I know that 4-strokes tend to just up and quit and not give you much warning that you're too lean. He highly suggested tuning with a tach on the main needle because there is a very narrow ''lean band'' and if you go one click too far it'll just quit...
I am going to switch to my castor/synthetic 50/50 blended fuel now for one or two more runs at 7k and I want to find peak rpm and richen 1000rpm from that to run it in service for awhile to finish break-in. After the 7-8min at 7000rpm I will let it cool completely and readjust the tappets if needed. I will reset them to .05-.07mm lash. I swapped the 13x7 APC prop out for a 13x6 APC. I have other props that are a lighter load yet but I'm not concerned with testing those until it has a little more time on it.
I've read here that the proper way to set your high speed needle it to lean it to maximum RPM and then go one or two clicks richer. I believe this is important to prevent stalled/lean engines from quitting and forceing a dead stick landing - or worse.
Cheers,
Bill
05-06-2012, 10:13 AM
#1414
RE: Club Enya
ORIGINAL: Ram Jet
You may be right about breaking in a ringed engine and prop size. When breaking in a full scale engine it is recommended that you initially apply mild or moderate throttle settings with occasional short bursts of full throttle to help seat the rings.
I've read here that the proper way to set your high speed needle it to lean it to maximum RPM and then go one or two clicks richer. I believe this is important to prevent stalled/lean engines from quitting and forceing a dead stick landing - or worse.
Cheers,
Bill
ORIGINAL: 1QwkSport2.5r
On ringed engines, Its not as critical on prop size I dont think. ABN/ABC's benefit from the light load and high rpm but ringed dont need it AFAIK. I think the more critical part of the break-in isnt so much prop size as how you run it and what you run it on. Plenty of good lube is key.
So far I have ran about 1qt + 6-8oz through my 60-4C. 10 minutes at 4000rpm, 10 minutes at 5000rpm, 10 minutes at 6000rpm, and maybe 3-4 minutes at 7000rpm. I ran out of fuel at the park otherwise I would have ran the full 10 minute run at 7k.
My question is this.. When leaning down to peak rpm, do 4-strokes behave in the same fashion as 2-strokes in that the rpm sags a couple hundred rpm when you're a click or two too lean? I heard from a guy I know that 4-strokes tend to just up and quit and not give you much warning that you're too lean. He highly suggested tuning with a tach on the main needle because there is a very narrow ''lean band'' and if you go one click too far it'll just quit...
I am going to switch to my castor/synthetic 50/50 blended fuel now for one or two more runs at 7k and I want to find peak rpm and richen 1000rpm from that to run it in service for awhile to finish break-in. After the 7-8min at 7000rpm I will let it cool completely and readjust the tappets if needed. I will reset them to .05-.07mm lash. I swapped the 13x7 APC prop out for a 13x6 APC. I have other props that are a lighter load yet but I'm not concerned with testing those until it has a little more time on it.
ORIGINAL: Ram Jet
I could be wrong but I was under the assumption that you should break-in a new engine with a lightly loaded prop. Something closer to the 11 x 7. Someone will help us out here. I commenmd you for your concern on breaking-in your new Enya properly. From what I have read here you will reap great rewards and have an engine with a very long service life.
Cheers,
Bill
ORIGINAL: 1QwkSport2.5r
The Enya manual says to use a 13x6 ~ 14x6 for break in. I have a 13x7 on it now but I will use a 13x6 later. I was just curious to see what I should expect.
ORIGINAL: Ram Jet
I have no idea. I've had no experience with this engine but the Top Flight prop recommendation chart indicates the engine should pull between a 11 x 7 and a 12 x 8 . For break-in you might want to run closer to 11 x 7. Dunno. You'll get some responses from those who do know.
Cheers,
Bill
I have no idea. I've had no experience with this engine but the Top Flight prop recommendation chart indicates the engine should pull between a 11 x 7 and a 12 x 8 . For break-in you might want to run closer to 11 x 7. Dunno. You'll get some responses from those who do know.
Cheers,
Bill
I could be wrong but I was under the assumption that you should break-in a new engine with a lightly loaded prop. Something closer to the 11 x 7. Someone will help us out here. I commenmd you for your concern on breaking-in your new Enya properly. From what I have read here you will reap great rewards and have an engine with a very long service life.
Cheers,
Bill
So far I have ran about 1qt + 6-8oz through my 60-4C. 10 minutes at 4000rpm, 10 minutes at 5000rpm, 10 minutes at 6000rpm, and maybe 3-4 minutes at 7000rpm. I ran out of fuel at the park otherwise I would have ran the full 10 minute run at 7k.
My question is this.. When leaning down to peak rpm, do 4-strokes behave in the same fashion as 2-strokes in that the rpm sags a couple hundred rpm when you're a click or two too lean? I heard from a guy I know that 4-strokes tend to just up and quit and not give you much warning that you're too lean. He highly suggested tuning with a tach on the main needle because there is a very narrow ''lean band'' and if you go one click too far it'll just quit...
I am going to switch to my castor/synthetic 50/50 blended fuel now for one or two more runs at 7k and I want to find peak rpm and richen 1000rpm from that to run it in service for awhile to finish break-in. After the 7-8min at 7000rpm I will let it cool completely and readjust the tappets if needed. I will reset them to .05-.07mm lash. I swapped the 13x7 APC prop out for a 13x6 APC. I have other props that are a lighter load yet but I'm not concerned with testing those until it has a little more time on it.
I've read here that the proper way to set your high speed needle it to lean it to maximum RPM and then go one or two clicks richer. I believe this is important to prevent stalled/lean engines from quitting and forceing a dead stick landing - or worse.
Cheers,
Bill
I'm going to try to get out this afternoon and run the 60-4C a little more on the stand. I did try setting the idle mixture a bit leaner to get the transition nice. I swapped in a "beater" glow plug to break it in and probably need to swap the Miracle plug back in to get the transition nice. Its kinda rich right now and any leaner gives it a slight lean hiccup on transition to mid throttle from a 2000rpm idle. I've gotten the idle as low as 1600rpm so far though. Higher than 1700 and you cant hear the "poik poik poik" exhaust note. Lower than that I heard a "boooo-ip" note that sounded different. Lower yet and it quit. This is on a beat up Fox idle bar plug even.
05-06-2012, 01:33 PM
#1415
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RE: Club Enya
ORIGINAL: 1QwkSport2.5r
Leaning down to peak and then richening a few clicks is common practice, but it seemed to be (as it was explained to me previously) the ''window'' between the rpm sag often cant be heard and once you get past the sag a click or two its all over and the engine quits. Whereas on a 2-stroke, I've noticed on some of my engines sag and will keep sagging and not quit for 6-8 clicks lean of peak.
I'm going to try to get out this afternoon and run the 60-4C a little more on the stand. I did try setting the idle mixture a bit leaner to get the transition nice. I swapped in a ''beater'' glow plug to break it in and probably need to swap the Miracle plug back in to get the transition nice. Its kinda rich right now and any leaner gives it a slight lean hiccup on transition to mid throttle from a 2000rpm idle. I've gotten the idle as low as 1600rpm so far though. Higher than 1700 and you cant hear the ''poik poik poik'' exhaust note. Lower than that I heard a ''boooo-ip'' note that sounded different. Lower yet and it quit. This is on a beat up Fox idle bar plug even.
ORIGINAL: Ram Jet
You may be right about breaking in a ringed engine and prop size. When breaking in a full scale engine it is recommended that you initially apply mild or moderate throttle settings with occasional short bursts of full throttle to help seat the rings.
I've read here that the proper way to set your high speed needle it to lean it to maximum RPM and then go one or two clicks richer. I believe this is important to prevent stalled/lean engines from quitting and forceing a dead stick landing - or worse.
Cheers,
Bill
ORIGINAL: 1QwkSport2.5r
On ringed engines, Its not as critical on prop size I dont think. ABN/ABC's benefit from the light load and high rpm but ringed dont need it AFAIK. I think the more critical part of the break-in isnt so much prop size as how you run it and what you run it on. Plenty of good lube is key.
So far I have ran about 1qt + 6-8oz through my 60-4C. 10 minutes at 4000rpm, 10 minutes at 5000rpm, 10 minutes at 6000rpm, and maybe 3-4 minutes at 7000rpm. I ran out of fuel at the park otherwise I would have ran the full 10 minute run at 7k.
My question is this.. When leaning down to peak rpm, do 4-strokes behave in the same fashion as 2-strokes in that the rpm sags a couple hundred rpm when you're a click or two too lean? I heard from a guy I know that 4-strokes tend to just up and quit and not give you much warning that you're too lean. He highly suggested tuning with a tach on the main needle because there is a very narrow ''lean band'' and if you go one click too far it'll just quit...
I am going to switch to my castor/synthetic 50/50 blended fuel now for one or two more runs at 7k and I want to find peak rpm and richen 1000rpm from that to run it in service for awhile to finish break-in. After the 7-8min at 7000rpm I will let it cool completely and readjust the tappets if needed. I will reset them to .05-.07mm lash. I swapped the 13x7 APC prop out for a 13x6 APC. I have other props that are a lighter load yet but I'm not concerned with testing those until it has a little more time on it.
ORIGINAL: Ram Jet
I could be wrong but I was under the assumption that you should break-in a new engine with a lightly loaded prop. Something closer to the 11 x 7. Someone will help us out here. I commenmd you for your concern on breaking-in your new Enya properly. From what I have read here you will reap great rewards and have an engine with a very long service life.
Cheers,
Bill
ORIGINAL: 1QwkSport2.5r
The Enya manual says to use a 13x6 ~ 14x6 for break in. I have a 13x7 on it now but I will use a 13x6 later. I was just curious to see what I should expect.
ORIGINAL: Ram Jet
I have no idea. I've had no experience with this engine but the Top Flight prop recommendation chart indicates the engine should pull between a 11 x 7 and a 12 x 8 . For break-in you might want to run closer to 11 x 7. Dunno. You'll get some responses from those who do know.
Cheers,
Bill
I have no idea. I've had no experience with this engine but the Top Flight prop recommendation chart indicates the engine should pull between a 11 x 7 and a 12 x 8 . For break-in you might want to run closer to 11 x 7. Dunno. You'll get some responses from those who do know.
Cheers,
Bill
I could be wrong but I was under the assumption that you should break-in a new engine with a lightly loaded prop. Something closer to the 11 x 7. Someone will help us out here. I commenmd you for your concern on breaking-in your new Enya properly. From what I have read here you will reap great rewards and have an engine with a very long service life.
Cheers,
Bill
So far I have ran about 1qt + 6-8oz through my 60-4C. 10 minutes at 4000rpm, 10 minutes at 5000rpm, 10 minutes at 6000rpm, and maybe 3-4 minutes at 7000rpm. I ran out of fuel at the park otherwise I would have ran the full 10 minute run at 7k.
My question is this.. When leaning down to peak rpm, do 4-strokes behave in the same fashion as 2-strokes in that the rpm sags a couple hundred rpm when you're a click or two too lean? I heard from a guy I know that 4-strokes tend to just up and quit and not give you much warning that you're too lean. He highly suggested tuning with a tach on the main needle because there is a very narrow ''lean band'' and if you go one click too far it'll just quit...
I am going to switch to my castor/synthetic 50/50 blended fuel now for one or two more runs at 7k and I want to find peak rpm and richen 1000rpm from that to run it in service for awhile to finish break-in. After the 7-8min at 7000rpm I will let it cool completely and readjust the tappets if needed. I will reset them to .05-.07mm lash. I swapped the 13x7 APC prop out for a 13x6 APC. I have other props that are a lighter load yet but I'm not concerned with testing those until it has a little more time on it.
I've read here that the proper way to set your high speed needle it to lean it to maximum RPM and then go one or two clicks richer. I believe this is important to prevent stalled/lean engines from quitting and forceing a dead stick landing - or worse.
Cheers,
Bill
I'm going to try to get out this afternoon and run the 60-4C a little more on the stand. I did try setting the idle mixture a bit leaner to get the transition nice. I swapped in a ''beater'' glow plug to break it in and probably need to swap the Miracle plug back in to get the transition nice. Its kinda rich right now and any leaner gives it a slight lean hiccup on transition to mid throttle from a 2000rpm idle. I've gotten the idle as low as 1600rpm so far though. Higher than 1700 and you cant hear the ''poik poik poik'' exhaust note. Lower than that I heard a ''boooo-ip'' note that sounded different. Lower yet and it quit. This is on a beat up Fox idle bar plug even.
I happen to be jetting a new carb for my motorcycle. I don't know if this has any application here but when sizeing a main jet (your jet needle and needle jet on a model engine) if you slightly back off your throttle and the engine speed increases you need a larger main jet (or an additional click or two). Conversly, when you back off the throttle and the engine stumbles and faulters then you're too rich. Just some of my hair-brained ideas.
Cheers,
Bill
05-06-2012, 02:29 PM
#1416
RE: Club Enya
ORIGINAL: Ram Jet
I happen to be jetting a new carb for my motorcycle. I don't know if this has any application here but when sizeing a main jet (your jet needle and needle jet on a model engine) if you slightly back off your throttle and the engine speed increases you need a larger main jet (or an additional click or two). Conversly, when you back off the throttle and the engine stumbles and faulters then you're too rich. Just some of my hair-brained ideas.
Cheers,
Bill
I happen to be jetting a new carb for my motorcycle. I don't know if this has any application here but when sizeing a main jet (your jet needle and needle jet on a model engine) if you slightly back off your throttle and the engine speed increases you need a larger main jet (or an additional click or two). Conversly, when you back off the throttle and the engine stumbles and faulters then you're too rich. Just some of my hair-brained ideas.
Cheers,
Bill
Maybe it still just needs more time or its overpropped. I didnt want to run it on the stand more than 45 minutes of runtime but until I'm confident its going to transition well I will leave it on the stand.
Weather is overcast day, about 60% RH, 65°F air temp. Fuel is 5% nitro 20% oil at 50/50 blend castor/synthetic. The glow plug that behaved the best is the Fox Idle bar hot plug. The Miracle plug struggled getting above 8000rpm. I tried a used beat up McCoy MC59 plug which ran well from 1/2 throttle up to WOT but would not idle on it without a glow driver on it. This plug might have gone south so I'll try one in better shape the next time I run. I'll grab another 4-stroke plug or two of different brands to try also.
Incidentally, this is the first engine I've owned that would run on a idle bar plug without quitting with the glow driver disconnected. Weird.
Can the experts ring in and either tell me I'm a doofus and I'm trying to get a good transition too soon or I'm overpropped or I'm overlooking something... help?
05-06-2012, 03:26 PM
#1417
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RE: Club Enya
You may want to invest in an ENYA No. 3 plug, or perhaps try the new ENYA four stroke plug (similar design to the OS "F" and Fox "Miracle" entended tip plugs).
05-06-2012, 03:52 PM
#1418
RE: Club Enya
ORIGINAL: fiery
You may want to invest in an ENYA No. 3 plug, or perhaps try the new ENYA four stroke plug (similar design to the OS ''F'' and Fox ''Miracle'' entended tip plugs).
You may want to invest in an ENYA No. 3 plug, or perhaps try the new ENYA four stroke plug (similar design to the OS ''F'' and Fox ''Miracle'' entended tip plugs).
I checked around.. The Enya 4C plugs are about $12 apiece, and the #3's are $6-8 each. The instructions call for a #3, so I'll see if I can get a couple of those and start there.
I forgot to mention, but I am running the fuel tank vented and not pressurized. The makeshift muffler that came on the exhaust tube doesnt really muffle much and I dont think it would make a difference if it ran with tank pressure or not so I plan to keep running it without muffler pressure.
05-07-2012, 05:09 PM
#1419
RE: Club Enya
Using either a Fox Miracle plug or OS F plug I get the same results. I made a (not very good) video of what its doing. For simplicity's sake, I set the main needle about 500rpm rich of peak. Setting it to peak didnt make a bit of difference, so I set it rich and left it and only messed with the airbleed to get the transition good.
http://youtu.be/_gDN7Ulz75Q
OS F plug, 5% nitro 20% oil 50/50 blend of castor/klotz, 13x4W APC prop, 65°F air temp.
With glow left on, it will transition really nice and cleans out good. At that setting with the glow taken off, the transition is rich and cuts out if you throttle up too fast. Leaning the airbleed makes the transition better but it cuts out before it throttles up. A few times I had to feather it up. It didnt seem to make any difference where I had the airbleed. It cuts out, burbles a little and then winds up.
I cleaned the carb out and double checked the metering slots in the barrel again. All clean. O-rings are soft and supple, and sealing good. All of the paper gaskets were replaced before I ever fired the engine up. Cam timing is set to the specs in the manual, and the valve lash is set to .075mm. I just rechecked it before I took this video. This is the same lash setting I set it up with before the first run.
I am concluding either I need more nitro or less prop..? My confidence is dwindling, but I got faith...
http://youtu.be/_gDN7Ulz75Q
OS F plug, 5% nitro 20% oil 50/50 blend of castor/klotz, 13x4W APC prop, 65°F air temp.
With glow left on, it will transition really nice and cleans out good. At that setting with the glow taken off, the transition is rich and cuts out if you throttle up too fast. Leaning the airbleed makes the transition better but it cuts out before it throttles up. A few times I had to feather it up. It didnt seem to make any difference where I had the airbleed. It cuts out, burbles a little and then winds up.
I cleaned the carb out and double checked the metering slots in the barrel again. All clean. O-rings are soft and supple, and sealing good. All of the paper gaskets were replaced before I ever fired the engine up. Cam timing is set to the specs in the manual, and the valve lash is set to .075mm. I just rechecked it before I took this video. This is the same lash setting I set it up with before the first run.
I am concluding either I need more nitro or less prop..? My confidence is dwindling, but I got faith...
05-07-2012, 05:24 PM
#1420
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RE: Club Enya
ORIGINAL: 1QwkSport2.5r
Using either a Fox Miracle plug or OS F plug I get the same results. I made a (not very good) video of what its doing. For simplicity's sake, I set the main needle about 500rpm rich of peak. Setting it to peak didnt make a bit of difference, so I set it rich and left it and only messed with the airbleed to get the transition good.
http://youtu.be/_gDN7Ulz75Q
OS F plug, 5% nitro 20% oil 50/50 blend of castor/klotz, 13x4W APC prop, 65°F air temp.
With glow left on, it will transition really nice and cleans out good. At that setting with the glow taken off, the transition is rich and cuts out if you throttle up too fast. Leaning the airbleed makes the transition better but it cuts out before it throttles up. A few times I had to feather it up. It didnt seem to make any difference where I had the airbleed. It cuts out, burbles a little and then winds up.
I cleaned the carb out and double checked the metering slots in the barrel again. All clean. O-rings are soft and supple, and sealing good. All of the paper gaskets were replaced before I ever fired the engine up. Cam timing is set to the specs in the manual, and the valve lash is set to .075mm. I just rechecked it before I took this video. This is the same lash setting I set it up with before the first run.
I am concluding either I need more nitro or less prop..? My confidence is dwindling, but I got faith...
She's a little jewel. Someone with more experience than me has to jump in here. Don't get frustrated, it's a fine balace between the air blld and jet needle. Nice test set-up.
Cheers,
Bill
Using either a Fox Miracle plug or OS F plug I get the same results. I made a (not very good) video of what its doing. For simplicity's sake, I set the main needle about 500rpm rich of peak. Setting it to peak didnt make a bit of difference, so I set it rich and left it and only messed with the airbleed to get the transition good.
http://youtu.be/_gDN7Ulz75Q
OS F plug, 5% nitro 20% oil 50/50 blend of castor/klotz, 13x4W APC prop, 65°F air temp.
With glow left on, it will transition really nice and cleans out good. At that setting with the glow taken off, the transition is rich and cuts out if you throttle up too fast. Leaning the airbleed makes the transition better but it cuts out before it throttles up. A few times I had to feather it up. It didnt seem to make any difference where I had the airbleed. It cuts out, burbles a little and then winds up.
I cleaned the carb out and double checked the metering slots in the barrel again. All clean. O-rings are soft and supple, and sealing good. All of the paper gaskets were replaced before I ever fired the engine up. Cam timing is set to the specs in the manual, and the valve lash is set to .075mm. I just rechecked it before I took this video. This is the same lash setting I set it up with before the first run.
I am concluding either I need more nitro or less prop..? My confidence is dwindling, but I got faith...
She's a little jewel. Someone with more experience than me has to jump in here. Don't get frustrated, it's a fine balace between the air blld and jet needle. Nice test set-up.
Cheers,
Bill
05-07-2012, 10:09 PM
#1423
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RE: Club Enya
Will if rev up if you advance the throttle more slowly? Transition mixture sounds litttle bit too lean for me as long as you run it on glow driver, but you you did correct in my humble opinion to turn the air bleed screw in at the beginning of your video.
At about 30-40sec, I think this is just the way a nice older Enya four stroke should go.
...its just not a fuel injected YS 120, where you can expect throttle response like a Kawasaki.
Is this the original needle valve?
As told, give the 10% nitro a try. Enya #3 plug should be correct. 13x4 prop sound good for me, too, but the 13x6 would be the right one for those older .60 size four strokes.
At about 30-40sec, I think this is just the way a nice older Enya four stroke should go.
...its just not a fuel injected YS 120, where you can expect throttle response like a Kawasaki.
Is this the original needle valve?
As told, give the 10% nitro a try. Enya #3 plug should be correct. 13x4 prop sound good for me, too, but the 13x6 would be the right one for those older .60 size four strokes.
05-08-2012, 05:03 AM
#1424
Senior Member
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RE: Club Enya
It isn't going to "act right" until iat gets some more run time on it. Enya engines do not need any nitro to run well, once broken-in. You have a very high quality engine. With high quality comes the need to be patient during break-in. I never was happy with the Enya #3 as a four-stroke glow plug. I'm glad to hear that Enya finally brought out a true four stroke plug.
Ed Cregger
Ed Cregger
05-08-2012, 07:10 AM
#1425
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RE: Club Enya
ORIGINAL: NM2K
It isn't going to ''act right'' until iat gets some more run time on it. Enya engines do not need any nitro to run well, once broken-in. You have a very high quality engine. With high quality comes the need to be patient during break-in. I never was happy with the Enya #3 as a four-stroke glow plug. I'm glad to hear that Enya finally brought out a true four stroke plug.
Ed Cregger
It isn't going to ''act right'' until iat gets some more run time on it. Enya engines do not need any nitro to run well, once broken-in. You have a very high quality engine. With high quality comes the need to be patient during break-in. I never was happy with the Enya #3 as a four-stroke glow plug. I'm glad to hear that Enya finally brought out a true four stroke plug.
Ed Cregger
Dang it Ed. I've been waiting for you to chime in. I didn't know Enya offered a four cycle plug, I'll have to check into that.
Thanks,
Bill