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Club Enya

Old 10-26-2016, 01:47 PM
  #2651  
FlyerInOKC
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Fox Manufacturing is still in business over in Ft. Smith but all they do now is custom machine work.
Old 10-26-2016, 02:59 PM
  #2652  
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Many in control line flying liked Fox engines and accessories. It was a blow to the community when Fox announced their model airplane business is gone forever. Regarding plugs, I bought a dozen Chinese 4-cycle hot for under $30, so far they are working fine for 2 cycle control line. I used to like Swanson Fireball Red (Hot), but I got a crop of them that only work for a short time, then go south. Must have been some bad, aged NOS stock.
Old 10-27-2016, 03:36 AM
  #2653  
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Originally Posted by 1QwkSport2.5r
I haven't found more than a 200-300rpm gain for every 5% nitro I add to the fuel in many of the engines I've run. Some engines have a marked effect from more nitro, but they are few.
Actually I have found that a 200 RPM gain is quite noticeable power. But if the engine was running less nitro than designed for I have seen as much as a 500 RPM gain per 5%. If too much nitro I have seen gains by decreasing nitro, especially with the normal medium heat glow plug.
Old 10-27-2016, 03:38 AM
  #2654  
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It was a blow to the community when Fox announced their model airplane business is gone forever.
Maybe, maybe not. They did say they may produce engines again if the market recovers. I don't see that happening for a few years yet though.
Old 10-27-2016, 03:39 AM
  #2655  
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Originally Posted by FlyerInOKC
Is Fox still making glow plugs or did they go the way of the Fox Engines?
Last I checked about 6 months ago they did.
Old 10-27-2016, 04:02 AM
  #2656  
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Originally Posted by Sport_Pilot
Last I checked about 6 months ago they did.
It doesn't look like Fox makes glow plugs anymore either. Tower Hobbies shows the Fox plugs as being discontinued.
When I was in at the local hobby shop a few days ago, they were just about out of glow plugs too. All they had was one plastic parts box with some glow plugs in it.
We may be forced to buy our glow plugs from the internet sites pretty soon.
Merlin still makes a large assortment of glow plugs and heat range types though. If I remember correctly Merlin makes the house brand plugs like Tower Hobbies and some of the others sell too.

I remember being able to buy a card of 12 to 16 glow plugs off the rack at the hobby shops. It doesn't look like you can do that anymore. Normally a person would break off a few plugs from the whole card, or they would buy the whole card.

Last edited by earlwb; 10-27-2016 at 04:04 AM. Reason: add more information
Old 10-27-2016, 04:15 AM
  #2657  
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Google "Fox glow plug". Even WaMart has them. Not sure if this is NOS or if they are still being made though.
Old 10-27-2016, 04:32 AM
  #2658  
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Originally Posted by Dave, FormerDairyFarmer
Tower shows most things Fox as being discontinued. If I can locate some Miracle plugs I'll grab them.
Amazon shows them as in stock.
Old 10-27-2016, 04:50 AM
  #2659  
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Originally Posted by earlwb
It doesn't look like Fox makes glow plugs any more either. Tower Hobbies shows the Fox plugs as being discontinued. When I was in at the local hobby shop a few days ago, they were just about out of glow plugs too. All they had was one plastic parts box with some glow plugs in it. We may be forced to buy our glow plugs from the internet sites pretty soon.
I think that your assessment is very true, Earl. I buy my plugs off Internet, given that the nearest hobby store is 95 miles away, I haven't been as privy to what the LHS' stock these days. One thing I noticed is that an LHS in Amarillo, Texas had limited glow fuel for sale, and that was a year ago. I've noticed only a small number of glow engines on the Tower website. Regarding Fox, found this bit of info:

http://www.modelenginecollectors.org/PDF/ValeFox.pdf

Originally Posted by Model Engine Collectors
From a Stunt Hanger thread dated Feb. 4, 2014 came this letter from Fox Mfg written earlier in 2014:

Originally Posted by Stunt Hangar
“In these tough economic times Fox has had to retrench and focus our limited number of employees on the outside jobs that provide a profit. With the price of motors driven by the Chinese imports, Fox engine profitability is limited. At this time we don't have the ability to dedicate staff to our Fox engine department. When the economy improves and outside jobs increase, we'll be able to resume engine production. Thanks for your support, Fox Mfg”
There had been rumors of Fox leaving the engine business in late 2013, but this really confirmed things. December 4, 2013, I spoke to Sharon at Fox and bought the last Fox 40 Stunt in the shop. At that time she said no engines were being produced. Fox had advertised a booth at this year’s Toledo RC show, but never came to open it. This was the first time since 1967 when I started going to Toledo that Fox was absent. Then, September 4 this year (2014) I thought I would buy one of the newest 2 NV throttles. Sharon said they were all gone. I asked if there were any engines in the building; she said no engines of any size or type were left.

And so after 67 years, Fox engines disappear with a whimper, not a bang.

Their factory is still open and making contract jobs that fit the capabilities of their equipment. In fact for years, this has been their major business. Model engines were really a minor line, but they stayed with them. It would be wonderful if they made engines once again, but realistically does any market remain? Their RC engines haven’t been popular, control line combat, Duke’s first love, is flown by very few, and precision aerobatic (stunt) fliers shun the old Stunt 35 and use foreign .25s and custom made .61s. Of course these situations refer to those still using internal combustion engines; the use of electric motors grows every day further reducing any potential market for IC engines.
Anything left of Fox is unsold stock, mostly on Internet auction and a few speciality model plane sites.
Old 10-27-2016, 04:55 AM
  #2660  
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Originally Posted by Sport_Pilot
Actually I have found that a 200 RPM gain is quite noticeable power. But if the engine was running less nitro than designed for I have seen as much as a 500 RPM gain per 5%. If too much nitro I have seen gains by decreasing nitro, especially with the normal medium heat glow plug.
To me, 200rpm (only roughly 2% gain) isn't significant enough to be worth the extra $3 per gallon... Then again most of the engines I own are designed for low/no nitro anyway - some tolerate 10%, but those engines run a fine line between running good and preignition. Not to mention the 5-15% higher fuel consumption for 2-5% gain in power doesn't strike me as all that beneficial... But that isn't to say this would be the case with every engine. I tried 15% nitro in a Enya 15-IV from 80/20 FAI break-in fuel and got almost 1,000rpm gain from it. That is something to shake a stick at, but 200rpm isn't in my mind.
Old 10-27-2016, 05:02 AM
  #2661  
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I really liked Fox idle bar plugs in my Enya 4-strokes. They outperformed OS F plugs in idle speed/quality and top end power. And they're half the price of OS plugs. Some of my hobby shops have them hanging on the shelf. One shop has a bunch of miracle plugs on the shelf priced around $7 each. I really like Enya and McCoy plugs, but Picco and Merlin plugs are stellar as well. I have found the engines hat people typically use idle bar plugs in (baffle piston engines) run spectacular on Enya 3 plugs. They are one of my favorite plugs.
Old 10-27-2016, 05:21 AM
  #2662  
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Originally Posted by 1QwkSport2.5r
To me, 200rpm (only roughly 2% gain) isn't significant enough to be worth the extra $3 per gallon... Then again most of the engines I own are designed for low/no nitro anyway - some tolerate 10%, but those engines run a fine line between running good and preignition. Not to mention the 5-15% higher fuel consumption for 2-5% gain in power doesn't strike me as all that beneficial... But that isn't to say this would be the case with every engine. I tried 15% nitro in a Enya 15-IV from 80/20 FAI break-in fuel and got almost 1,000rpm gain from it. That is something to shake a stick at, but 200rpm isn't in my mind.
200 RPM is much more than 2%. Take a look at the formula for propeller torque and speed. To raise the RPM by 200 RPM the torque must increase exponentially so a 2% increase in speed is more like an 8% increase in torque, and HP may be more like 10%.
Old 10-27-2016, 05:30 AM
  #2663  
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Originally Posted by Sport_Pilot
200 RPM is much more than 2%. Take a look at the formula for propeller torque and speed. To raise the RPM by 200 RPM the torque must increase exponentially so a 2% increase in speed is more like an 8% increase in torque, and HP may be more like 10%.
The only real method I have at my disposal to determine power production of an engine is how fast it will turn the propeller. I have no way of measuring the HP or torque of the engine except through how the engine turns the prop. If an engine turns 200rpm faster and burns 10% more fuel, it wouldn't be worth it to me. 400-500rpm would be more "worth it" in my eyes.

I do not doubt what you're saying though.
Old 10-27-2016, 06:17 AM
  #2664  
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Originally Posted by 1QwkSport2.5r
The only real method I have at my disposal to determine power production of an engine is how fast it will turn the propeller. I have no way of measuring the HP or torque of the engine except through how the engine turns the prop. If an engine turns 200rpm faster and burns 10% more fuel, it wouldn't be worth it to me. 400-500rpm would be more "worth it" in my eyes.

I do not doubt what you're saying though.
How much more torque required would depend on the prop and the initial speed, those were not exact numbers I was quoting, there is at least one spread sheet and some programs out there that can tell you what the HP is when spinning a certain prop at whatever RPM, and increasing the RPM will increase the HP well above the percentage of speed increase. And I notice a substantial performance increase with just a 300 RPM increase with a prop turning about 10,000 RPM.
Old 10-27-2016, 06:25 AM
  #2665  
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One of them, not sure on how accurate it is, but should give a hint on what's happening.
http://www.godolloairport.hu/calc/strc_eng/index.htm
Old 10-27-2016, 06:56 AM
  #2666  
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Originally Posted by Nitrovein
One of them, not sure on how accurate it is, but should give a hint on what's happening.
http://www.godolloairport.hu/calc/strc_eng/index.htm
Using that a 14x6 APC at 10,000 RPM increased to 10,200 RPM. RPM increased 2%, thrust 4%, and HP 6%. For 10,300 RPM the thrust increase 6% and HP 9%. These are rounded of course. But just a 3% increase of RPM increased HP almost 9%. You won't be able to tell this on a bench run, but when flying a plane I can tell a 300 RPM increase because it accelerates faster and climbs faster, it is noticeable without measuring times or acceleration.
Old 10-27-2016, 07:25 AM
  #2667  
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Yes, and that's no small increase if you ask me. (Or decrease if it goes the other way, like the previous engine)
I'm not sure on how big of a difference there is in fuel consumption, and in either way it would be different on different engines, but still...
Old 10-27-2016, 07:33 AM
  #2668  
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Fuel consumption should approximate the HP. Actually it goes up a little more because of friction loss.
Old 10-27-2016, 08:34 AM
  #2669  
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Many things can change the outcome, but most likely it's that way.
Old 10-27-2016, 09:18 AM
  #2670  
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Back on the subject of Enyas... I'll be putting some Enyas up for sale if anyone has any interest. (3) used Enya 15-IVs in great shape with good compression. Also an early twin ringed .45 (model 6001). Bearings smooth and rings fairly new - definitely not broken in. I also have a 40CX that is lightly used that I may let go too.
Old 10-31-2016, 01:20 PM
  #2671  
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Originally Posted by Nitrovein
What expert recommends 65% for this type of engine?
Sorry for the late response - have been “out of town” for a while. Just sifted through my “balance folder” in the shop. Many of my references are from the motorcycle world. Found that b.f. recommendations tend to aggregate around 60-65% - provided we speak about a single cylinder engine, beam mounted in the upright position. So for my Enya mounted in the upright (or inverted) position I would aim for 65% if wolfram addition is to be made. Mounted sideways I would aim for 60%, not that it matters much in practical terms. Never measured the exact b.f. in the Saito.82 in post #107, just established that it was still “underbalanced” with reference to 65%.
Old 10-31-2016, 01:26 PM
  #2672  
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Originally Posted by FlyerInOKC
I guess I'm of the old "If it ain't broke don't fix it" school, why all this mania about modifying heads and adding spacers to a perfectly good running engines for such a small gain in RPM? Seems to be it would be better if the engine is not producing enough power for the airplane its on to just switch it out and use the current engine on something else? I still believe Enya knew what they were doing when they designed it and it will run longer and more reliably left original.
Good point. You echo my late father who was an aircraft engineer. His motto “Leave well enough alone” was often heard when my brother and I had scattered our motorcycle parts all over the basement. At one point he even chained my motorcycle and refused to unlock it before I had refitted mudguards, chain-guard, muffler…etc. However, he was very supportive when we had technical problems. We learned a lot from him.
BUT..!!!
  1. Item 1) in #2630 again. On a good flying day I must carry three fuel cans. I therefore try to “harmonise” engines to make them feed from the same can. A minimum number of cans and with a minimum % of nitro.
  2. The engine was in fact “broke” - and severely so - when I acquired it. The previous owner had overtightened the valve cover screws to the extent that both valve spindle standoffs were cracked. Already at break in after only 15-20 minutes runtime. I felt sorry for such a fine engine being thrown on the scrap-heap and bought it “dirt cheap”. Stabilized the standoffs and made a new rocker arm spindle. Still holds together after 10 years of service in two airplanes and now approaching 20h runtime. R.H.pic in #2646 shows the outward signs of said “patch up”.
  3. “…this mania..” Strong word. Working on my engines/airplanes on a rainy October night while sipping coffee, eating cookies and listening to Dolly Parton is something I enjoy. It is my hobby. Must I defend that..??..And at this RCU Forum of all places.!
  4. Thank you for posting #2582..!
Old 10-31-2016, 06:03 PM
  #2673  
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Here's some Enya stuff I'm gonna put up for sale if anyone is interested. All three are model 3304 (15IV)s. The one missing the carb I ran from new, the one with the metal throttle arm was an eBay special and the one with the white throttle arm is from a guy on RCG that couldn't get it to run right. All three have run great for me. Out of 5 of these engines that I've bought, I only ended up with two mufflers and three carbs between the five engines and three of the five were unrun.
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Old 11-01-2016, 03:12 AM
  #2674  
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Originally Posted by canardlover
Sorry for the late response - have been “out of town” for a while. Just sifted through my “balance folder” in the shop. Many of my references are from the motorcycle world. Found that b.f. recommendations tend to aggregate around 60-65% - provided we speak about a single cylinder engine, beam mounted in the upright position. So for my Enya mounted in the upright (or inverted) position I would aim for 65% if wolfram addition is to be made. Mounted sideways I would aim for 60%, not that it matters much in practical terms. Never measured the exact b.f. in the Saito.82 in post #107, just established that it was still “underbalanced” with reference to 65%.
First of, I agree with 1QwkSport2.5r that this is getting a little OT, so I'll keep it short.

My best tip is to take it in small increments, and use as good of a way possible to quantify YOUR results.

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing, as they say.
Old 11-01-2016, 03:33 PM
  #2675  
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Originally Posted by Nitrovein
First of, I agree with 1QwkSport2.5r that this is getting a little OT, so I'll keep it short.

My best tip is to take it in small increments, and use as good of a way possible to quantify YOUR results.

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing, as they say.
OT..??..why..? I think it was most relevant of you to ask me for the “balancing factor” of the Enya crank in #2634…! Peter Chinn in his review in Model Airplane News, February 1983 identified two “flaws” in the performance of the Enya 60-4C: a)vibration and b) idling speeds. The wording in the corresponding review in the UK magazine Radio Modeller(my printout lacks issue No.) is similar to that in the MAN article clip attached. I have attempted to address both “flaws” with my modifications.
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