Hobbsy

My Feedback: (102)

I like to leave it peaked while tuning the LS needle because the HS needle seat is fixed, so that eliminates one variable. When happy with the idle and transition set hs at your favorite setting. I think Zoar props are too light for fourstrokes. They are very nice and look great. I have a Zoar 12x6 on a new OS .56 Alpha, I haven't run that combo yet.

Razmo

My Feedback: (2)

Thanks Hobbs, Let me know what you think if the following..

1) Open HS needle 2.5 turns from full close
2) Start engine, let warm, remove glow driver
3) Full throttle, lean for peak RPM
4) Throttle to idle, lean LS needle 1/4 turn, check transition to full, lean until smooth.
5) Full Throttle, enrichen 200 to 300 from peak

Hobbsy

My Feedback: (102)

Sounds good except, use smaller changes and more of them on the LS needle, it works like a charm.

Razmo

My Feedback: (2)

I just came across this..http://saito-engines.info/throttle_setup.html

Why they suggest 4 turns out versus 2.5 (per the manual) starting from square one, not sure I understand. Sounds like the richer the better. Also, I'm noticing it's suggested to leave the glow driver on while first adjusting for peak and enrichen 200-300. It's then suggested to remove the glow driver and check full throttle, but makes no mention of whether adjustment should occur at this point. I assume, yes, same procedure, but without glow driver..? Sounding like tuning without the glow works fine..

Hobbsy

My Feedback: (102)

Those setting are only for the break in, if your engine has 40 minutes or more on it, it is broken in. The peak is only for while setting the LS needle

extra300crazy

Hobbsy,
Let me know how you like the 56a when you use it, as I'm thinking of getting one.
Karl

Razmo

My Feedback: (2)

Thanks Hobbs, I likely have a 1.5 gallons through it to date. I've open the HS needle 2.5 turns, again the LS needle is still factory. I'll use my mentioned steps above..

sjhanc

My Feedback: (3)

My Saito was not fully broken in until it passed (45) 15 minute flights. Be patient. Under prop it a little until it starts to tach over 10,000 rpm then switch to a larger prop. You don't want to over rev it in flight, the valves will float.

Hobbsy

My Feedback: (102)

Thanks Karl, I already like it, the .62V is about 30 bucks cheaper, I didn't notice that when looking at the .56 Alpha.

Raz, if you've got 1.5 gallons through it, it was broken in long ago. Saito considers them broken in at 40 minutes. If you go ahead and carefully set the needles then they won't change much, ever.

qwerty3

Do you have good compression on your Saito? I recently did a cleanup on my OS 70 (that had lots of time on it) and discovered that the valves were very carboned up. Removing the valves (a tricky task), cleaning up the carbon, and some light lapping restored compression. I haven't had a chance to run it since (the airplane it will go in is still in-work), but I'm sure it should improve performance.
Just be VERY careful not to lose the valve retainer parts (tiny fiddly little bits)!

hsukaria

I love my Saito 82a with an APC 14x6 on a U-Can-Do 46. I get incredible performance with it. I tuned it as Hobbsy suggests and it has never failed me. I use 20% nitro, 20% synthetic oil. But I suspect 15% nitro with 17% oil would give similar performance.. I was just being paranoid about oil content.

flycatch

My Feedback: (26)

Ran the numbers using the PLF formula and there is nothing wrong with your propeller selection. Reset your valves according to the instructions provided and that may make a difference.

blw

My Feedback: (3)

My new 82a runs very smoothly with an APC 14x8. RPMs on the ground are just about 1500 below max but I haven't flown it yet. W8YE strongly suggests an APC 14x4w which I bought but haven't run on the engine yet. I have to say this 82 is the smoothest Saito I've ever broken in.

stevegauth30

I find my Saitos take much longer to break in than other 4S engines that i have. I have a little FA 40 that i really didnt care too much for, but now on its third season its really becoming quite the little performer. Same with the 125. Be patient my friend.

jaka

Hi!
All glow engines are set the same! You peak them (with the high speed needle) , hold the plane straight up doing so, and back off the needle slightly!

You do this every time before you go out to fly!

Then....Only then you set down the plane and set the low speed needle.
Every engine setting is done be ears! Be it sport flying or racing, doesn't matter!

As for propellers. If you want good performance and quiet flight the best propeller brands are Garaupner G-Sonic , RAM and APC. There is a wast difference in performance compared to the Master A props,especially the white tiped version which is no good both performance wise and sound wise (it's loud) compared to those I mentioned first.

Wooden props can be as good too but be prepered to do some modification to them before you notice any difference.
Most wooden props are too thick and have a too blunt leading and trailing edge. File them and you will see improvements, but take care in balance them before you fly. You balance/ file any prop by working on it on the front side , not on the back side.
RPM will improv as well as pulling power and general flight performance. A slower rewing prop is NOT improving things compared to the same prop being modified to spinn faster provided the same diameter and pitch is kept.

hsukaria

I personally can't tune a 4-stroke without a tachometer. My hearing is not that good to determine peak rpm's. If I do it by ear, I end up being too lean. But that is just me, some people can do it.

blw

My Feedback: (3)

Steve- I used the wrong words when I said it's broken in. It's only done the 40 minutes that Saito says to do, but it isn't close to broken in. The phenomena I like about Saitos is that you can hear and feel them as they really break in. They suddenly get smoother and suddenly act like they are barely sipping fuel. Your needle settings hold for weeks, and then longer.

Jaka, the one thing you don't do is tune a Saito the way you recommended. Sorry, but that is a recipe for disaster, low power, and/or thrown props. I know you tune your 2 strokes that way, but not a Saito. Not all 4 strokes are the same, but I agree somewhat about your 2 stroke statement. OS 4 strokes are different animals.

For Saitos, the best procedure (and the only one you should use) is to peak your high speed needle and leave it there. Get the max rpms and leave it. Start leaning your low speed needle. You are looking for just the edge where it begins to sag, wheeze, or stumble when you advance the throttle moderately. It's a good idea to go back and re-peak your high speed a few times along the way to keep it set right. This stumbling point on the low speed needle is what you are looking for. Then, back off about 1/8 turn richer, repeal your high speed and back it off richer maybe 300 rpm and fly the plane. I would listen carefully to the engine the first few minutes to see if your low speed is smooth and not sagging a little. Sometimes in flight it will show that you need to richen the needle maybe 1/16 a turn more.

You don't have to tune a well broken in 4 stroke every time if you tuned it correctly previously. I flew my Saito 56 about a year and a half before touching any needles, and that was a mistake when I did.

stevegauth30

BLW, my post had nothing to do with what you posted. Just my experience with saitos. They seem to take longer to REALLY start to run good than other 4S's that i have. So true though the way you put it. One day it will just click and open up for you. (When shes good and ready.)

blw

My Feedback: (3)

That's what I said and what I thought you said. I only pointed out that I called the first 40 minutes as broken in and corrected myself.

jeffie8696

I do not consider any of my mid sized engines regardless of brand or type broken in until I have a gallon of flying through them . And some like Saitos have a distinct almost sudden change in performance as described earlier. One of the most remarkable was my Magnum 52 FS.

hsukaria

Maybe you were lucky and got a good sample on the Magnum. I had to run 2 gallons through my 52FS and it was still weak. I had to reduce the prop size to a 12x4 and run 20% nitro to have decent performance on a 3.5 lbs plane.

I don't have experience beginning a break-in process on Saitos since I bought all mine used. The last one I purchased was partly broken (91S) in and I did notice a change in behavior while flying it last weekend. My 82a is swinging a 14x6, one 91S is swinging a 14x8, and the other 91S is swinging a 13x9. All of them seem to do it effortlessly and with instantaneous throttle response. What more can I ask for? (my tach is broke!)

jeffie8696

I consider all Magnums a luck of the draw. I have had good and bad, luckily I bought new with a warranty and used it.

hsukaria

Mine wasn't broken enough to invoke the warranty, just not on par with OS or Saito. But then, it was much cheaper. So, I can't really complain.

blw

My Feedback: (3)

I've had good luck with other peoples Magnums when flying them or when they ask to tune them. It's just a personal thing, but I have always liked them. Simple and easy.

MJD

My Feedback: (1)

Sure it does if you know what you're looking for. But .. when you remove the plug heat and check the transition from idle and top end again, you may expose any issues that could be masked by the assistance of plug heat, i.e. rich low end or mid range, old tired plug, wrong heat range, etc. If you have to make any significant adjustment to correct a problem that wasn't there before - best to take a look at the plug (assuming the fuel is good and no issues with the engine of course). When in doubt try a new one.. no change, put the old one back. Some folks wait a while to try new plugs.

My $0.02 on the subject - it is important NOT to attach importance to the number of turns out of the needle, it is only a starting point. Too many people obsess about the number of turns. Prop, fuel, environmental conditions, manufacturing tolerances (!!) - myriad variables that all move it one way or the other from the average.

If the top end is set properly, i.e. off peak a few hundred rpm bla bla - then it is set properly, move on. Just note where the needle actually is for reference later.