ULTRASTICK7

I am thinking about getting an 77" Goldberg Edge 540 ARF from tower hobbies (http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXMPN1&P=0 ) and was wondering what the best all around engine would be for a weekend flyer. I am debating between 2 or 4 stroke glow or even gas. I have only owned 2 stroke glow so I am wanting a different sound and feeling of power.

Would a 1.80 4 stroke glow provide equal power and performance as a 32cc or so gas?

How easy is it to learn the gas engine? Is it constant adjusting of the engine or are they set and fly type?

Also is the goldberg arf a good choice for the dollar? suggestions would be nice.

Thanks

NM2K

My Feedback: (14)

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Once dialed in, gas engines pretty much stay the same without requiring lots of adjustments from flying session to flying session. If you changed a prop, you'll need to tweak the high speed needle. Sometimes the low speed needle too, but not usually if the prop change isn't drastic.

A 1.80 four-stroke is around a 30cc engine. Being a glow fueled engine, it is likely that it will be more powerful than a gasoline/oil fueled two-stroke ignition engine, a gasser. Of course, this depends upon which four-stroke and which gasser you compare to one another.

Lately, small Chinese made 26cc gas engines have been encroaching upon the 1.80 size glow engines territory. No, they are not more powerful than their glow counterparts, but if you are just sport flying, the power difference isn't that important. However, the dollar savings in operating a 26cc gas engine versus a near equivalent displacement glow engine can be considerable. I have both glow and gassers in those size ranges, just for the fun of it.

Weight is the big factor when choosing a gasser in this size range. The BCMAE and Brillelli (no preference in the listing order) versions of Chinese SPE 26cc engines only weight an ounce more than a Saito 1.20. This makes them direct replacements for a similarly sized glow engine without requiring extensive modification of a 1.20 - 1.40 sized model.

loughbd

I have a Zenoah G-38 on a 1/4 scale L-4. I haven't touched the needles in 10 years. Think about your gasoline lawnmower. How often do you fiddle with the mixture on it???

loughbd

I decided my next large scale airplane is going to use a diesel. Here is a piston out of the engine. That's a YS 120 sitting front of it to give some perspective of the size.

NM2K

My Feedback: (14)

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I had heard that someone up in Washington State was building a 1/4 scale Hindenberg. So it's you, eh? <G>

loughbd

1/4 scale?? Nope this is 1/2 scale. The engine has 16 of those things in it.

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

That's enough of the fun.....

Let's get back on subject....

Jim

asmund

Those 26cc spe engines are incredible light and compact. A buddy of mine is installing one in an edge 540 these days and it makes my mvvs 26 gasser look big and heavy (though it isn`t) but then again I have the tunedpipe and it adds weight and bulk but also alot of power. My engine is going in the same egde 540 as he have, so it will be interesting to see how the two engines performs side by side. He has just run in his engine for some time and when we tached it on a 17-6 prop it didn`t reach 7000 rpm(but it is very rich propably) my mvvs peaks at 8600 rpm on a menz s 18-6 and that is pretty close to 40cc performance. Both these engines is small and light enough to be used in 120-140 size planes, and if not max power is needed the mvvs canister or pitts muffler will make the mvvs engine lighter and easier to mount. I will not buy a 120 glow engine. I feel that the limit goes at 90 size(not conserning my ys 110 as it is needed to power very light 3-d planes)

kegman1962

I am building a 27% extra 260 and trying to decide between a Saito FA 220 4 stroke glow and a EVO 45gxt2 Gasser. Don't know much about gas and i am not worried about the cost of the fuel. Any thoughts or input would be helpful, I know the added cost between the gas and the glow is at least 250., more for the gas.
Thanks,
Kevin

DarZeelon

Kevin,


The EVO/MVVS 45 cc engine is a much more powerful power unit than the Saito.

It is about 200 grams heavier (with the muffler), but it would spin a prop which 3" larger in diameter and for the same time of flight, would need a much smaller fuel tank.

I recommend that you select the EVO/MVVS canister muffler, as it would add significantly to the output....


This engine is for larger aircraft.
There isn't much to know about gas engines and any neighbor with a weed-eater, chainsaw, back-pack sprayer, or any other garden power-tool can help you adjust the carburettor.

So your current lack of knowledge should not be a deterrent, for moving out of the glow-engine scene, with your larger model.

Red B.

Removed by author!

asmund

loughbb. you have really skimped on the afterrun oil in that diesel of yours

JettPilot

My Feedback: (6)

For large RC planes Gas is much better, there is no contest....

Gas is much more reliable than glow, the engines require no maintenance, they are cheaper to operate, and you never have to mess with the needles once set. Some short sighted people just look at the weight of the engine, but with gas, you can carry much less fuel so the weight difference is not really that much. When you look at all the advantages of gas, a couple ounces of weight is NOTHING. How many crunched up planes do you see because of unreliable glow engines quitting at the wrong time [:@] For 99% of the flyers out there, a couple ounces dont make a darn bit of difference. If you are the 1 % that may be in serious competition where only a couple ounces matter, then you wont even be asking this question.

So bottom line is, do you like to fly, or do you like to mess with engines all day and clean up the glow mess on your plane [sm=confused.gif] This is really a no brainer.

JettPilot

loughbd

Asmund.. You recognized it as a diesel. Now tell me what kind

jettpilot what gasoline engine do you recommend for a Falcon 56 since gasoline is much better than glow?

DarZeelon

Bruce,


When I speak of large engines, I usually mean those that in their glow form go for over $250.
Adding the cost of a spark-ignition will raise their price by no more than 40%...

A .40-.53 engine can be had for as little as $50... An ignition system would triple its price and it would take a long time to make up the cost difference... An ignition system weighs the same, so even with a smaller fuel tank, it would be a burden on the model.


If someone produced an ignition system that would cost no more than $25 and weigh in at up to 4 ounces, battery included... Then glow engines will not be very popular...

loughbd

Someone DID produce an ignition system that weighs less than 4 ounces including batteries. An Ohlsson 60 ignition weighs almost nothing and three small ni metal hydride cells weigh less than four ounces. You can buy an Ohlsson ignition from woody Bartelt for about 25 bucks. Of course it only works on an Ohlsson.

Second point. Jetpilot said that gasoline is much better and more reliable than glow. I asked him then, what better and more reliable gasoline engine should I use on a falcon 56.

Glow engines are just as reliable as gasoline engines if one knows how to set them up. I can't remeber the last dead stick I had with my little Saito 45. Now my old Zenoah G 38 gave me fits for awhile until I figured out what the problem was. At a big flyin I had about 10 deadsticks in a row. Finally figured out that the gasoline I was using was over a year old and the Zenoah didn't like it anymore. Also had a fouled plug.

Rat Racing engines have to be reliable because you have to go 50 miles and make at least two pit stops and they have to start instantly by hand. Same with Combat and many other events in control line. If glow wasn't the way to go, we would all still be using Ohlsson's baby Cyclones, Browns, and other old ignition engines.

ULTRASTICK7

I am thinking of getting a 70" Edge from a www.peakmodel.com in New Zealand and was wondering about the SPE 26cc engine.

This would be my first venture into gas engines. This engine looks different than most gasers.

Is this the best bet or should I go with a glow or another gas?

Thanks

DarZeelon

Cale,


PeakModel is located in China; not in New Zealand.

I never actually seen the [link=http://www.peakmodel.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=7_44&products_id=32]SPE 26 cc engine[/link] run, but its specs hint it is significantly less powerful than 'real', designed for R/C engines.

Claimed output is 2.3 HP, compared to 3.8 for the MVVS/EVO 26 cc.
It is also less versatile, with few exhaust options...

But it is dirt cheap.

It is a Zenoah alternative.

Kweasel

My Feedback: (29)

Both fuel and ignition types have their advantages. Whats your experience level and what do you value most? There are a few, "very few" that still like glowplugs in their big chainsaw engines because they like the power and hate the potential radio problems. These guys are use to blending fuel, tuning carbs, and all of the maintenance that goes along with methanol fueled engines. The current crop of modelers want no part of that, they value gasolines economy, low maintenance, and ease of handling. A little less power and lots more potential radio problems are well worth not having to clean an airplane after a days use. The new 20-26cc gas engines are becoming popular but struggle with power/weight compared to cheap glow engines. I think the gas crossover threshold is 40-50cc, many will disagree.

DarZeelon

Kevin,


Radio problems? What radio problems?

With a spark ignition gas engine, the only interference problems can result from the owner having replaced the high-tension plug wire with an "aftermarket", low resistance wire...

The only incidents I have seen were related to an owner of a $12K plane attempt that 'last flight' on the charge of the Li-Io pack.

It indeed was the last flight for that plane...


Gas engines, especially when run rich, do make a mess... Just a bit less of it.

Flyer95

My Feedback: (1)

Very well said[sm=thumbup.gif]. I could not put it better my self

Flyer95

My Feedback: (1)

Just one note Both small and big glow engines are more or less maintenance free. Glow engines have less parts and no ignition system, wires, batteries or pumps that can failure and give deadsticks.

loughbd

Guess you never used an open point ignition system. I did with an Ohlsson 60 on a Sig Kadet Senior. With AM or FM radios there was constant glitching. I had to use a PCM radio. It went in and out of fail safe continuously but it didn't glitch and the plane was flyable. Had more fun with that airplane until it failed to survive a midair.

DarZeelon

Bruce,


Open points ignition systems went out with elevator shoes...

With current electronic ignition, or CD and even magnetos, there isn't much interference that is caused by the low voltage circuit.

loughbd

And you assumed I didn't know that? BUT... there are zillions of guys flying R/C assist SAM events that have to use the older ignition engines. SAM, That stands for Society of Antique Modelers.