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SuperTigre mid-range problems?

Old 01-05-2007, 09:06 PM
  #51  
speedster 1919
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Default RE: SuperTigre mid-range problems?

Dennis ---------------HEAR THIS-------------Center you spraybar which will wind up to be 3:00 position (nipple). You can't set the ST carb at 1/32 space or blow on it. Set low needle so the tip blocks the cats eye half way and start at 3 turns out on HS needle. Your carb is out of whack an your not going back to a good starting needle settings. 4.5 turns tells me your in to far with LS needle. If you have a tach set HS 500RPM rich and only turn LS needle 1/8 of a turn after idle pinch test. Don't worry about midrange now.
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Old 01-05-2007, 09:13 PM
  #52  
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Default RE: SuperTigre mid-range problems?

Dennis, when you're ready to sell it let me know!
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Old 01-05-2007, 09:27 PM
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Default RE: SuperTigre mid-range problems?

I removed the carb, and opened the throttle all the way and set the LSN to block 1/2 of the spraybar slot, Then I set the HSN at 3 turns out. Started it up, and it wouldn't idle correctly. It transitioned fine, but no matter how I set the LSN, it wouldn't idle below about 2800 rpm without dieing. I got it to idle at about 1400 again, but it will only do it for maybe 20 seconds and die. I went 1/2 turn rich and lean, 1/16 turn at a time, and that the best it would do, about 2800m rpm without dieing after about 20 seconds. It had me fooled there for a while, but it just needs a new carb. Im spoiled with my Saito's, and if something won't idle well below 2000 rpm, I have no use for it. My saito's all idle at about 1200 to 1400 all day long, or until I shut em off. The size of this Giles is very inconvienient too. Big pain in the butt just moving it from the house to the truck, and back again. It's also way to heavy for hanging from the ceiling, so im glad to see it go back. If it ran correctly, I would have kept it, but under these circumstances, no way... Since I installed my Saito's on my 3 planes, I havn't had to touch a needle, they always fire right up, and idle like new Harley's, and thats how I like things to run. Thats why I spent the extra money for the Saito's in the first place... No more 2 strokes for me thanks, I've had enough agony in the last 3 days to last me a lifetime ! hahaha !!! I've been a mechanic all my life, and I really hate workin on stuff for free, my stuff included. Thats why i drive a 73 Chevy pickup for 14 years, and ride a homebuilt VW Trike. They never give me any trouble at all, just gas and oil, soap and water... Thats the way it's supposed to be. lol
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Old 01-05-2007, 09:33 PM
  #54  
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Default RE: SuperTigre mid-range problems?

dennis- if you had crud in the muffler nipple then there's a very good chance it got into the fuel tank and carb. you need to be sure the lines and tank and carb are clean - especially the needle and spray bar area.

Ed
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Old 01-05-2007, 09:38 PM
  #55  
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Default RE: SuperTigre mid-range problems?

The spraybar was pointed straight down the throat, and that put the nipple on this Italian ST G20 whatever that really is, almost straight back. On towers website it says that the G2300 has the G20 on the side, and so does this one, but this one was made in Italy... ??? I have no idea what it is now, I just know it won't run right. I was getting it for $500.00, but it was just put on my tab, so actually I never paid for it yet. He's just going to take the plane back, and that makes me very happy. lol Boy, big planes can be a real pain... I stickin to my little 40 size jewell's from now on... and no more 2 strokes ! Period ! hahahahaha !!! The flatbed on my truck looks like an oil tanker crashed there now !!! The wood was due for another sealer treatment anyway....
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Old 01-05-2007, 09:41 PM
  #56  
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Default RE: SuperTigre mid-range problems?

I'll admitt, there was no fuel filter on it to be seen anywhere either... Maybe a good disassembly and cleaning is what it needs, but im burned out... I have offically given up... lol
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Old 01-05-2007, 09:56 PM
  #57  
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Default RE: SuperTigre mid-range problems?

I thought about puttin a 32 cc gas engine on it, but my bud said they weigh twice as much, and have 1/2 the power, so that saved me 300 bucks. That would have meant changing alot of stuff over to gas, and altering the cowling, and rerunning the throttle cable, and then I would have $800 in it, Nah...
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Old 01-05-2007, 10:00 PM
  #58  
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Default RE: SuperTigre mid-range problems?

We also considered installing an OS 120 in there, but the 120 is alot smaller, and would have needed a different motor mount, move the engine way forward to clear the front of the cowl. Too much trouble... Also, the muffler wouldnt fit the OS either. This thing is 1/3 bigger than the OS 120. I dont think the 120 would have the nads to pull that big plane, but I may be wrong about that, it just looked so tiny by comparission. As I have seen here and in the past, the 2 strokes slobber oil everywghere and all over the planes too, so thats no good either. The ST was terrible that way bigtime ! My Saito's run as clean as my Chevy, and thats a good thing.
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Old 01-05-2007, 10:53 PM
  #59  
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Default RE: SuperTigre mid-range problems?

Just out of curiousity, was there supposed to be a gasket under the spraybar plate ? There is not one there.
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Old 01-06-2007, 06:07 AM
  #60  
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Default RE: SuperTigre mid-range problems?

No gasket ------------1400 RPM idle is wrong. These aren't car motors. Any idle under 2500 is good. 2,000 is very reliable RPM. I think you were kicking your own ass trying to tune to that low of an idle and on old used plugs from your other post.
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Old 01-06-2007, 09:15 AM
  #61  
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Default RE: SuperTigre mid-range problems?

If you can't get an idle below 2800 then there is clearly somerhing wrong with the fuel system setup, or the engine is not broken in, or the carb is not assembled correctly. My chinese 2300s idle well at 21-2200 with a 17-6 or 17-8 prop. Trying to get an idle down to below 2000 is interesting but I see no reason for this, although if you fly from a paved runway that may be a factor. for that you may need to go to apc or similar props which are heavier.

Also, if your engine is an Italian made 2300 it may have a carb problem. Some here have reported problems with the Italian made 2300 carbs. however, I have no problems with tuning the Chinese made 2300 carbs after the engine is broken in as long as the muffler has sufficient back pressure. When the super tiger factory was moved to china the new owners redesigned the carb, I understand. So the carbs on the Chinese made 2300s are a different design from the I talian made 2300s. I wll add that I have never run an Italian made 2300 so this reported tuning problem may just be the same back pressure/adjustment problem as the reported problems with the Chinese made 2300s.

If your 2300 is putting out a lot of unburned fuel then the carb is too rich. My 2300s put out very little unburned fuel. They do need to be be run fairly rich during breakin with a fairly high idle (about 300 rpm or so) until the ring fully seats, but after that they run best tuned to be not overly rich so they do not put out a lot of unburned fuel. In fact my 2300s put out alot less unburned fuel than the equivalent Saitos that the guys run at my field.

Another thing to consider is the glow plug. you should be using a fox rc long or os f plug, at least in the chises 2300s. the super tiger plug is worthless. As far as I know the italian made 2300s were designed for the same compression, porting, etc as the chinese 2300s, so the glow plug comment should apply there also. Other glow plugs may have the wrong heat range. Also, older glow plugs may no longer have the correct material properties to properly make the fuel light off - there is a catalytic action of the glow plug with the fuel and if the plug is old it may not do this properly any more.

Ed
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Old 01-06-2007, 01:53 PM
  #62  
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Default RE: SuperTigre mid-range problems?

3000 rpm idle ? I can't have that ! Yes, I fly off of a huge, smooth, paved lot that used to be part of the old mill here. and yes, it idled at 3000 just fine, but I need 1200 to 1500 max so the plane will stop rolling at idle for me. Im spoiled... I did remove the spraybar and set the LSN at half way thru the slot, and the needle was recessed alot more than it was when I got it. Maybe it will run ok for the new owner now, but im not wasting any more of my precious fuel on that monster. Anything that big should have a gas engine on it, unless your in the big bucks. I fly almost every day, and need fuel efficiency. 25 to 30 minutes on 8 ounces is more my speed...
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Old 01-06-2007, 02:52 PM
  #63  
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Default RE: SuperTigre mid-range problems?

I thought I would add this, I do own a couple of 2 strokes. I have an Ofna Picco .26 Max in my Revo, and it has to idle pretty fast to be dependable, but it has a clutch that takes alot of rpm to engage it. I also have an OS32 on my helicopter, and it idles well under 2000 rpm and will do it all day. That big ST should be able to idle at 1500 easy with a good carb on it in my opinion, and i've seen lots of other 2 strokes do it very well. Sometimes cheaper is not better...
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Old 01-06-2007, 05:25 PM
  #64  
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Default RE: SuperTigre mid-range problems?

i have read thru this form was hoping to find the problem i have with a st 2300. it is side mounted in a 1/4 yak 54 using a slim line smoke muffler. the engine startes very easy and has great low idle the problem i can't get a rich setting at high end, no matter where the neetle valve is it runs the same on the lean side i have checked every thing
the tank is right the feed and fill lines are ok i get pressure out of the muffler. the engine runs the same from 3 turnes of the needle valve to 1 turn from falling out if you pinch the fuel line it just quites i called st service they couldn't come up with anything except send the engine in the compression seems ok for a new engine i don't want to keep running it like this but i'am at wits end have a lot of smaller st have never had this problem i still run a 1965 tiger 60 it was the first engine i ever purchaced don't know how many hrs. are on it must be a few
thanks
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Old 01-06-2007, 06:30 PM
  #65  
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Default RE: SuperTigre mid-range problems?

dennis- the 2300 should be broken in by about 1 hours running well enough to go to a lower idle- 2100 or so. mine were. If you need a lower idle than 2000 then very few 2 strokes will work for you. Super tigers won't do 1500 rpm idle unless you run a massive prop, and even then I doubt they would idle reliably at 1500.

Clockshop - the thing you need is more muffler back pressure. There is not enough pressure in the fuel tank to feed enough fuel to the 2300 at full throttle. Look at the outlet tubes on your muffler. Compare them to the muffler that comes with the 2300. block off enough of the muffler outlet tubes so the total area of the slimline is about the same as the original muffler. This will give you enough back pressure so you should get control with the high end needle. If you don't then there is a problem outside the engine with the fuel system (tank height, line size, distance from the engine, etc.)

Ed
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Old 01-06-2007, 07:45 PM
  #66  
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Default RE: SuperTigre mid-range problems?

Helped a guy with a Evolution 46 today that had the same problem. I finally put an idle bar plug in it that I had, and I was able to get it to idle nice at 1800 rpm and it ran great. Maybe thats what the ST needs. I told my bud about that, so maybe he will try it. I think he has the Giles sold to anopther guy already, so he can try that if he wants. I flew my cessna 182 with the Saito 56 maybe 5 times today, and didn't use a whole tank of fuel. Thats the way I like em to run. lol
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Old 01-06-2007, 08:57 PM
  #67  
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Default RE: SuperTigre mid-range problems?

ORIGINAL: clockshop
the engine runs the same from 3 turnes of the needle valve to 1 turn from falling out if you pinch the fuel line it just quites
There must be something other than the needle restricting the flow of fuel. Any engine should run extremely rich even without any muffler pressure with the needle wound out that far. Kinked fuel line, fuel passages not drilled or aligned properly, bit of dirt in the passages. Or possibly the idle needle is way too lean and restricting the orifice?
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Old 01-06-2007, 09:02 PM
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Default RE: SuperTigre mid-range problems?

The exhaust nipple was plugged... The new owner is going to try an idle bar plug. I don't have the plane anymore.
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Old 01-07-2007, 10:06 AM
  #69  
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Default RE: SuperTigre mid-range problems?

i made some bushing for the tubes and ran the 2300 again today seems a lot better
those having idle problems with the 2300 it takes a little time to get it right but the 2300 will idle really slow mine will inld all day at 1190 to 1205 rpm that is using a 18x6-10 prop
bob
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Old 01-07-2007, 10:18 AM
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Default RE: SuperTigre mid-range problems?

hi down under
this is a new set up everything is like it should be i did make the out let tubes smaller it helped some but i still can't get it to run really rich i backed out the idle bar didn't help other than messed up the idle it should run by intake suction only but no matter what nothing changes it goes the same with or without the pressure tap i had a idle before at 1190 1205 rpm and very stable i thing i will have to go with a perry pump any ideas
bob
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Old 01-07-2007, 10:47 AM
  #71  
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Default RE: SuperTigre mid-range problems?

Although I had some trouble keeping the fuel to the carb in the beginning, and plugging the exhaust helped, ultimately it turned out that the exhaust nipple was getting plugged. Once that was cleaned, as long as the engine was turning, the fuel stayed at the carb. I think the one I had just needed an idle bar glow plug to idle down to 2000. As far as the back pressure goes, I would look at the stock muffler, and then try to duplicate the opening size on the new muffler to be somewhat close to that, And after doing some thinking, I've decided that with all the adjustment we have via the needles, I would want to duplicate the exhaust opening for fuel economy, and from my experience with that italian ST G20, whatever it was. it really sucked down the fuel.
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Old 01-07-2007, 11:13 AM
  #72  
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Default RE: SuperTigre mid-range problems?

Bob Your asking for trouble getting the Idle RPM that low. 1,800 is condidered low RPM on a big Tigre. The LS and HS needles work togeather on the whole RPM range. They work togeather on the mid range and don't let anybody tell you different.
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Old 03-10-2007, 06:11 AM
  #73  
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Default RE: SuperTigre mid-range problems?

For the guys that have put a different carb onto their G90, what did you use?
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Old 03-10-2007, 07:30 AM
  #74  
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Default RE: SuperTigre mid-range problems?


ORIGINAL: freeonthree

I thought I would add this, I do own a couple of 2 strokes. I have an Ofna Picco .26 Max in my Revo, and it has to idle pretty fast to be dependable, but it has a clutch that takes alot of rpm to engage it. I also have an OS32 on my helicopter, and it idles well under 2000 rpm and will do it all day. That big ST should be able to idle at 1500 easy with a good carb on it in my opinion, and i've seen lots of other 2 strokes do it very well. Sometimes cheaper is not better...

----------------


There is nothing wrong with ST engines. Just the people that own them that are having problems. They are inexperienced and incompetent. The world did not begin when they were born, contrary to their belief.

Super Tigres are Ferrarri-like, not Chevrolet-like. They need TLC and a knowledgeable owner to come into spec. Beginners should avoid them like the plague.

Buy OS, an engine with built-in training wheels. Until then, more experienced modelers will smile understandingly and know that another newbie is displaying their ignorance when they complain about Super Tigre engines. Even when these engines come up to spec, they are not going to behave like an OS. It is not in their nature. This should be no surprise to anyone that has been in the hobby for longer than six months and who has been going to the field and talking with others.

This post is the result of watching/reading 100's of whiners that are too lazy to break-in their engines properly and then berate the Super Tigre line. A line of champions for so many, many years.

There. I've said it. Buy OS. If you can't run a Tigre, you don't know what you are doing. Stick with an engine that comes equipped with training wheels.

The folks that are selling these engines are not helping any. Tigres run best on 5% or no nitro at all. If they have reengineered the engines in their move to China, it would be nice if they had enough good manners to tell the rest of us. Until that happens, let it be known that more than 5% nitro in these engines ON THE AVERAGE (meaning that with a ganging of tolerances, there can be an occasional engine produced that runs well on 50% nitro) will suffer from midrange stumbles and misery. This is not rocket science. It is nothing new. It has always been this way. Why is this such a puzzlement to some people?

Between newbies with no patience and folks writing up incorrect instruction manuals in order to sell a few more engines, regardless of the consequences to their customers, this ongoing diatribe is getting very, very, very old.

Ed Cregger
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Old 03-10-2007, 12:42 PM
  #75  
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Default RE: SuperTigre mid-range problems?

Sorry, Ed, but I completely disagree with what you have said in the above post. My experience tells me that you are wrong when you try to blame the people, not the engineers behind the engines. Sure, there are bone heads out there that don't know what they are doing, I just don't consider myself in that group of people.
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