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  1. #1

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    Super Tigre 2000 - 3000 Engines

    Can anyone trace the genesis of the ST 2000 to 3000 engines for me?? How are the engines identified?n

  2. #2
    Moderator w8ye's Avatar
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    Super Tigre 2000 - 3000 Engines

    There's a 2000, 2500, & 3000. Both the 2000 and 2500 said 2000 prominently on the side. But the 2500 had a 25 stamped on the lug. The 2000 looks like this picture. Note the seperate fron bearing housing.
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    Attended the CutFinger Institute of DirtNap University for years but never did graduate....
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    Original AMA #31261

  3. #3
    Moderator w8ye's Avatar
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    Super Tigre 2000 - 3000 Engines

    There's a newer 2300 series that looks like this. Note the one piece crankcase.
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    Attended the CutFinger Institute of DirtNap University for years but never did graduate....
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  4. #4
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    ST 2000, 2500 & 3000

    The 3000 (1.8 cu. in.) and newer 3250 (2 cu. in.) had a slightly taller, but identical looking, case, somewhere around a quarter inch.

    The smaller 1.2 cu. in. 2000 came out first, followed by the 1.5 cu. in. 2500. These engines got their max hp at 13,000 and 10,000 respectively, according to Super Tigre. 16 inch props were normally used on the engines.

    When the 3000 came out, many people tried to prop them with the same 16-8 or 16-10 prop and found the 3000 didn't turn any better than the 2500. The Super Tigre literature indicated max hp for the 3000 to be at 7900 rpm. An 18-10 prop works nicely. It took several years for the scale guys in my club to warn up to the 3000 and use a large prop. The engine is a lugger. the 2500 and 2000 turned up a lot more. Finally guys started prtting 18-6 and 18-8 on the 2500 and were pleasantly surprised.

    The carbs are a diferent story.

    On another engine, but in the same area, I do not own an MDS, but I wonder if many people with the MDS 1.48 are under propping it before it is broken in. Running a couple of tanks through it with a 16 inch prop, then leaning it out to the max on 15% fuel appears risky in my opinion. Seems to me that an engine of that size should be using a 17 or 18 inch prop. All my big Tigres have needed a lot of rich running and 2 or 3 gallons before I would say they were really broken in. I would expect the same for the MDS, but them I have never owned one.
    Ed Moorman, AMA 553, Former R/C Report Fun Aerobatics Columnist. 76 and up to my old tricks!

  5. #5

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    Super Tigre 2000 - 3000 Engines

    Thank you for the most informative reply.

  6. #6
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    Yo, ED....

    ...I have an 3000....it has severe vibration. Everything
    is balanced to the enth....any Ideas.....

    Powermaster 15%, 18-8 Zinger....big Magnum carb,
    Fox Miracle plug.....

    Iv'e tried everything....got the motor used....I'm starting
    to think bent crank, but I haven't yanked it down yet.

    Dave.
    An engineer says.... "That will not work".
    A mechanic says..."Oh yeah, watch this".
    Old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill.
    Revver Bro #4.

  7. #7

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    Big Cats

    I love 'em!!!

    I've got 2 running 3000 engines and a couple of parts engines. I've got a 2500 also. Also a couple of parts engines in the 2500 and 2000 series engines.

    The really cool thing about the 2000 and 2500 engines is that they have an identical connecting rod and crank. The 2500 is just bored out slightly larger, so it has a bigger diameter piston. If you got a 2500 with a bad rod and a 2000 with a bad piston-- you can swap and combine parts to get one going.

    The only difference in the 2500 cases and the 3000 is the case height-- as someone else mentioned in an earlier post. All these engines use the same crank. They all have the exact same stroke. The only difference in the cranks is the rod journal size. The 3000 has a slightly larger rod journal on the crank. But still the same stroke as a 2000 or 2500. The reason for the taller case- and longer rod-- in the 3000 is to reduce the rotating mass. When ST lengthened the case and rod on the 3000-- it was done to reduce the angle of the rod to the side of the cylinder. With a short rod and the same huge bore-- it would cause the piston to be driven into the side of the cyl.. each time that the piston came around to BDC and on its way up to TDC. Lengthening the rod allows for a much smaller angle and less side loads on the piston and cylinder. With high angles and side loads-- you would incur "piston slap" very prematurely with the engine. That is: The piston and sleeve would wear tremendously fast and allow the piston to slap around in the sleeve after only a short time.

    I run my 3000 with a 19-8 Master Airscrew Schimitar wood or a 20-6 Pro Zinger. It cranks out around 8200-8300RPM with the 19-8 and around 7500-7700RPM with the 20-6 prop. All this on 5% Omega fuel and a Fox plug.

    These big cats are definetly torquers. They have more grunt than a 60yr old man trying to get outta the recliner.

    I run a 16-10 on my 2500 with the same 5% Omega fuel and Fox plug. I get around 8700-8900RPM with this engine and prop. It's got plenty of torque.

    I like the way the case is two pieces. You can remove the four bolts on the front case and the entire crank, bearing, and carb assembly comes right off the front of the engine. This makes for easy piston removal.

    The stock carbs stink. I run an OS7D carb on all my big cats. Just dial them in and fly it,, no fussing around with the carb all day-- I want to fly-- not tinker with needles. The engines run flawlessly with the OS carb. A perfect idle. Excellent transition and midrange. And top end is about 300-400 RPM improved over the stock carb.

    I've got two MDS 148 engines. One is still NIB. The one that is running now seems to be pretty powerful. I run it with a MA Schimitar 16-10. It cranks up around 8800-9000RPM with the same fuel and plug as the Tigres.

    The new carb on the MDS is just fine. It idles well and has excellent transition and midrange.

    Edit: None of my ST engines shake horribly. They all seem to idle and run wide open with very little shaking. Actually- the 2500 runs smoother than the 3000. I suspect because it has the same size crank and counterweight as the 3000-- just a smaller explosion to deal with. Makes for a smoother idle-- but it takes longer to spin up. The 3000 engines still run really smooth. No bad vibrations or shaking.

    The 3000 will spin up faster because it has a huge bore-- relative to the stroke. With a big bore and a relatively short stroke-- the engine comes up to max RPM in about 1 second. From an idle-- just flick the throttle stick up and you got instant power. The 2500 takes about 2 or 2.5 seconds to get from idle to full RPM.
    Airplanes have expiration dates. Its just not printed anywhere on them.
    Im not really an airplane pilot; but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

  8. #8

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    Super Tigre 2000 - 3000 Engines

    Thanks Rcpilot!

    I was going to post asking about the cure for the midrange richness both my Tigres suffer from. I have a G20/23 and a 3000 and both are stupidly rich in the midrange. OS "F" plugs seem to help a lot but you do get a little detonation now and again on the 3000.

    Your mention of using the OS 7D carb' is good news as I'm about at the end of my rope with these motors. Your dead right about prop' sizes too. Thanks for the info.
    Jus\' lemme fly!

  9. #9

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    Super Tigre 2000 - 3000 Engines

    I've read from several different sources, and I believe that Mr. Moorman who posted above was one of them, that the ASP .91/1.08 carb works just as well as the OS7D carb on these engines and is about $30~$40 dollars cheaper. I have an ASP .91 and I can tell you, the carb is roomy.
    I also have an ST-3000 with the OS-7D carb but haven't run it yet. I actually bought it used several years ago in the old RCO swap shop, kept it for a year or two and sold it since I couldn't find an immediate use for it. As these things go, just a couple of weeks ago, I found a use for it. I wrote the guy I sold it to to ask how he liked it as I was thinking of buying another. Well, low and behold, he sold it back to me for the same price! He'd never even taken it out of the box I mailed it in except to look at it.
    Now, how many times do you get a chance to reclaim something that you regretted ever parting with?
    Greg Reid
    Palmetto, GA.

  10. #10
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    ST 3000

    The carb for the ASP .91 should be the same one as for the 1.08. For either of these carbs and for the OS, you need the split sleeve the early STs came with to reduce the hole in the crankcase to the size of the carb neck. Great Planes used to carry them. In a pinch you could use aluminum tape.

    AS for the ST3000 with vibration, mine have been very smooth, except for one I bounced off the ground. It had a slight bend at the end of the threaded part of the crankshaft. Hold your plane steady and put something to mark where a prop tip is, then swing the prop 180 deg. and compare. Mine was bent. I can remember saying, "Well, &*%#!"

    I didn't want to wait for the new one to come in-sometimes parts take forever so I made an attempt at straightening it. I took it out and chucked the threaded end in my drill press and whacked it with a hammer. A few whacks and it ran pretty straight. I also had a buddy with a lathe and a dial indicator who could really get them straight, but I was in a hurry. It actually ran OK, but I did put in the new one when it came in.

    Have you tried a Zinger 18 6-10 on your 2500? They run pretty well.
    Ed Moorman, AMA 553, Former R/C Report Fun Aerobatics Columnist. 76 and up to my old tricks!

  11. #11
    Moderator w8ye's Avatar
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    Super Tigre 2000 - 3000 Engines

    In the newer Magnum carbs, there is a split blue steel sleeve inside the throttle bore. You have to remove the barrel from the carb body and take out the low speed needle to remove the sleeve. The sleeve just makes the carb a little smaller for better fuel draw.

    The sleeve I'm talking about is not the one that Ed is talking about. The one he mentions reduces the size of the throttle recepticle area in the crankcase so that you can seal off and hold the carb in place.

    Jim
    Attended the CutFinger Institute of DirtNap University for years but never did graduate....
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  12. #12

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    Super Tigre 2000 - 3000 Engines

    Thanks for the info guys.

    I just had a reply from Just Engines here in the UK. They want 35 ($57) for an OS 7D and 17.50 ($28.50) for a copy. I wonder if the copy is the ASP carb', dya'reckom?

    Ed, yes I remember the split collar you mention. I've seen them on the 2500. I wonder if I can find a couple over here? I'll let you know if I get lucky.
    Jus\' lemme fly!

  13. #13
    Moderator w8ye's Avatar
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    Super Tigre 2000 - 3000 Engines

    People have been complaining about the copy. It sorta looks like one but that's about the end of it.

    Jim
    Attended the CutFinger Institute of DirtNap University for years but never did graduate....
    Recipient, Mangledhand award August 2008
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  14. #14

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    Super Tigre 2000 - 3000 Engines

    I just got a ST 3000 for my 1/4 scale project. Talked to the engine gurus who said that the ST carb nipple has to be enlarged so the fuel starvation issue is reduced. Said just use the nest largest drill bit you can get and make that choke point larger. Do that and it turns it into a real snarlin' cat.
    Luck,
    Mike

  15. #15

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    ST3000/3250 Fuel Starvation Issue

    The fuel nipples on the .60, .90, 2300 & 3250 are all the same size! I have all of these engines. Not only do you need to drill the nipples out on the 2000 - 3250's, you also need to drill the clunk out and use large (not medium) fuel tubing. Doesn't hurt to run a Perry or Cline pump either. I've never tried the Cline personally as I used a Perry on both the 2300 and 3250. Note I said used - neither of these engines have a home right now but will get put back into use hopefully this summer. If I don't get moved (work) this summer I'm hoping to production line 3 Ultrasport 1000s and intend to put the 2300 in one and the 3250 in another.
    Spending my daughters inheritance one plane at a time...

  16. #16

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    Super Tigre 2000 - 3000 Engines

    ...I have an 3000....it has severe vibration. Everything
    is balanced to the enth....any Ideas.....

    Powermaster 15%, 18-8 Zinger....big Magnum carb,
    Fox Miracle plug.....


    I always heard that the big Tigres should be run on fuel with lower oil content, or otherwise they run rough. Also : 15% nitro is not needed, and the combination of the nitro and the hot Fox Miracle plug could give detonation ... ?

    Kris

  17. #17

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    Super Tigre 2000 - 3000 Engines

    UK users of big Tigres use 12% oil usually made up of 6% Castor 6% Synthetic. They run fine with no nitro but I've been using 5% to help the midrange richness problem. Vibration on my 3000 is average. I'm using a home made radial mount made from 1/8" dural. I'm turning an 18x8 too but she'll pull a 20x8 no problem if I could just get it to clear the deck!

    If you have a good solid firewall and the mounting is okay and your prop is balanced then you may have a bent crank. Even then I've heard plenty of other people complaining of vibration with these engines although it's hard to see how one crank could leave the factory different to the others. ---- Or maybe not :-)
    Jus\' lemme fly!

  18. #18

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    GET A REAL MOTOR

    I HAD A 2000 AND THOUGHT IT WAS THE REAR THING ,BUT WHEN A GOT A MOKI THE DOG WENT IN THE TRASH . LESS WEIGHT , MORE POWER ,AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO CHANGE ANY PART . NONE . IF YOU WANT A REAL MOTOR GOT A MOKI OR EVEN A ZDZ GAS . THAT IS ALL I GOT TO SAY ABOUT THAT

  19. #19
    Flyfalcons's Avatar
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    Super Tigre 2000 - 3000 Engines

    I have a Moki 1.8 and ST 1.8. I like both of them. Thanks for the advise wrench, but seriously, we aren't talking about Mokis here. I am running a Master Airscrew 20x6 on my Gee Bee Y with the ST and Slimline pitts muffler. I have found that the engine will not come down to idle if the mixture is a little lean - it keeps turning pretty quick. This engine sounds great in the air!
    Ryan Winslow
    Fly PAU!

  20. #20

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    ST IDLE PROBLEM

    MAKE SURE YOU ARE RUNNING SUPER-T FUEL WITH 12% BLENDED OIL 10% NITRO . AND OS F PLUG. THIS THING WITH IDLE VERY WELL WITH THIS COMBO. IF STILL WON'T IDLE WELL IT COULD BE YOU HAVE SOME CRANK CASE LEAKS .

  21. #21

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    Super Tigre 2000 - 3000 Engines

    Wildcat Fuel makes a special blend for the bis ST's. People here 'bouts swear by it.

    Hey wrench, a little about ng etiquette. ALL CAPS signifies you are yelling or being 'in yo face.' Also it is nice to stick with the topic, too. If a q about a ST 2500 is the subject, realize that most people don't have the ready cash to throw a perfectly good engine in the trash and get an expensive, but wonderful, engine. Happens all the time when talking about 4-strokes, too. A q about whether to use a Magnum or OS inevutably brings several posts saying trash it and get a YS. IMO, that is a useless egotistical post which has a sole purpose of letting the author see his name in print.

    Welcome to the site, hope to benefit from your knowledge when I try and get my second hand ST 3000 up and working in the spring.
    Mike

  22. #22

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    super tigre 2300

    I've got a super tigre 2300....I'm really sick of trying to get this engine to run right. Without fail it will die during mid range transition. I currently have an onboard glow driver in the plane(ultrasport 1000), to keep it going while I max the throttle out. It runs great at idle and and full throttle. I've been hearing that an OS #7D carb is the sure fix for this engine. Doesn't this carb require an adapter of some sort to fit the ST2300? I've seen the carb on Tower Hobbie's site. Where can I find the adapter?

    Tower isn't replying to my emails....

    Thanks

  23. #23
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    coetgen....

    ....if the O.S. 7B carb will fit (at about $85.) the big
    Magnum carb (at about $35.) will also fit. Works fine.

    Take your pick....the Magnum carb measures 15mm.

    Dave.
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    An engineer says.... "That will not work".
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    Old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill.
    Revver Bro #4.

  24. #24

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    spray bar adjustment

    you my have to rotate the spraybar to adjust your midrange .
    also use the f-model plug and super t fuel .

  25. #25

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    Super Tigre 2000 - 3000 Engines

    Watch your ST fuels. Super Tigre DOES NOT recomend using blended fuel (castor/synthetic mix) in their engines if the total oil content is less than 18%. For 10 to 12%, the oil must be all castor. Yes I have the paperwork to back it up. Came with an engine I purchased for my dad as a gift. I have the 2000 and 2500 both running OS "F" plugs on 15% Omega, they run great with no problems. I also run Perry carbs, 1/2 the cost of the OS. My 2500 turns a Mejzlik 18X8 @ 8900 rpm on the ground.


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