buzzingb

My Feedback: (2)

I have had fuel that wouldn't run well before that I had setting for one winter. I used it during the fall and filled and defueled several times during the pall. Later around spring after not flying much that winter I went out to fly and I couldn't get the fuel to run hardly at all and when I did get the engine fire off it was very weak and died after a while. I even got it into the air once but had to glide it back in. I didn't know what was wrong at the time so I checked everyting (too many things to list) as you might expect but nothing would make it run. Finally I thought about the fuel being in the jug all winter and changed the fuel and guess what, it ran perfect and never had anothe problem. Well I know some of you skeptics are thinking, Year RIGHT, he must have changed something that made it run. I wasn't satisfied with this so I saved the fuel and tried to make it run again after returing home and it still wouldn't run. All I can say if you don't believe this is, Some things you just have to experience for yourself. Mehanol can and will go bad if it is exposed to moisture.

happypappy

My Feedback: (10)

That may be true about running correctly with 20% water in the jug. Problem is that alcohol will absorb water until around the 10% water to 90% alcohol area. Anything above that the water goes into phase seperation and will eventually go to the bottom of the tank. The guy may have been lucky and picked up the fuel off the upper layer. Believe, however, that may be one of those stories that may have been relayed to you! Yes, we all know about water injection, but that is not the same as water in the fuel.

rc34074

My Feedback: (5)

xjet-
I have no mid-range problems - my tigers don't load up as with proper back pressure the carbs are fairly easy to set to eliminate this. It is a balance between the needle settings. I now have 8-10 tigers and have no such problems on any of them. When brand new they need a little higher idle speed, but after breakin I set them to a nice low idle (about 2100 or so last time I tached one) and they run fine there. Another factor is fuel tank location and height - if the design of your planes does not enable the tank to be in the right location then you need to remake the plane to correct this. Another fix for this is the cline or iron bay regulators, but I have never spent the money to do this.

So I will repeat- it is not constructive to just complain about these carbs without offering a solution - so why not create a list of fixes you like? You could keep this in your word processor memory and just copy It into your messages very quickly, instead of writing messages over and over.

Ed

buzzingb

My Feedback: (2)

I smelt to this mans fuel and it even didn't smell right or look right. Do any of you know if bad methanol has a different odor or color?

buzzingb

My Feedback: (2)

One other point that may be important is that the fuel was in a metal container. I have heard that metal wasn't as good a plastic to store fuel.

buzzingb

My Feedback: (2)

If any engine will run bad methanol I am sure a Super Tiger could.

The man I was telling you about earlier just didn't believe me when I told him that his fuel was bad. I convinced him to try some of my fuel and he was then concinced that indeed he had bad fuel. The dog-gone-engine wouldn't even come up on its power band it was like it was under load and just didn't sound right. It also didn't want to start, when useing an electric starter I had to spin it over for a while to get it to fire and then it bogged as if it was way over proped. The fumes coming from the muffler didn't smell right either. After I pumped his fuel out I used my fuel pump and fuel and instantly it started up and reved normally. It is surprising to hear some people say that methanl won't go bad. Gasoline will even go bad and I won't start on that one because some of you will get tired of hearing about that, but boy can I tell you one more story about that.

chelliah 12

A Super Tigre CARB set correctly WILL work with syh oil . There is no need to replace it with a different make period. USE THE SPRAY POSITION TO ADJUST THE MID-RANGE RPM. THERE ARE A NUMBER OF OF ARTICLES ON THIS SUBJECT WRITTEN BY EXPERTS OR SHALL I SAY USERS OF THIS PARTICUAR MAKE. YES I DO USE THEM AND RUN THEM IN THE MID-RANGE MOST OF THE TIME.

buzzingb

My Feedback: (2)

Thanks of the info for midrange cures as it reminded me of when I was experimenting with the old 2300. If you will observe from afar (Safety) the barrel of the carb as it opens on any carb you can actually see the fuel being drawn out and being sucked into the engine. The midrange is when this is most evident as the velocity isn't there yet to be that violent. Rotaing the spraybar to the rear removes the jet out of the main suction stream or airflow during this opening stage of the carb barrel. In other words the carb opens at the front first and that is where the airflow is not at the rear until more of the barrel is open. This may have some effect on fuel mixture. What is your opinion??

NM2K

My Feedback: (14)

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I've had opened jugs of fuel that sat for several years before using it up without a problem.

I don't know what happened to your fuel, but it isn't typical for those that seal the container completely and keep the fuel in a stable environment without a lot of light.


Ed Cregger

buzzingb

My Feedback: (2)

Like I said, sometimes you just have to experience for yourself. One thing that is puzzling though is, why yould you leave fuel stored in open jugs for years when Mehtanol evaporates rather quickly and absorbs moisture out of the air rather quickly. It looks as if the methanol would be evaporated after a few weeks.

Not24

My Feedback: (1)

My turn!!!

ST carb design is probably okay. The main problem with the 2300 is that it's got way too big of a venturi. Hence, the fuel draw problems. Tank placement should not be overly critical. Nor should fuel level, glow plug, or nitro content. A well designed engine should be able to run satisfactorily in most normal or common setups. Tweaking the nitro or glow plug should be left up to optimizing the setup and flying conditions.

My 2300 on the stock carb was unreliable, at best, and quit often. On the new carb, it's flying, tuning, and running like it should. Deadsticks only occur now when the fuel tank becomes filled with air.

My new G90 appears to be running as it should. I don't anticipate any problems with that one.

buzzingb

My Feedback: (2)

Not24 my 2300 is performing well now too thanks to you and your experimenting and knowledge. I love this engine as it is very powerful and idles so smooth. It really pulls the Funtana 90 well, it will go straight up as fast as it will fly in level flight, sure seem like that anyway. The 2300 has an abundance of power, swinging a 17X6 APC Sport right at 9000 last time I checked. As you say it really doesn't matter what glow plug, fuel, etc. as this thing will run it. Now I am useing Tower Plug and 15% nitro without any problems. It just amazes me as how low this engine will idle, I know it is lower than a Saito, and instantly throttle up like mad. I really am afraid it might pull the light made Funtana into. It hasn't yet but it is a lot of force to hold it by the tail when that powerhouse if throttled up. I really am well pleased with the vibration level, seem very low indeed. I have many gallons through the 2300 and everything is going great.

Not24

My Feedback: (1)

Great! Glad it's working for you. I think you can get even more power with another muffler. I can almost see 9000 with a 17-8 apc. My plane is a little heavier, and flies perfectly with the 2300. I won't be buying a fourstroke any time soon, so long as the tigres run like this one.

I second those thoughts on the smoothness and low idle. It does make that two stroke ring ding sound, but I ain't going broke over something like looks or sound. Performance makes up for that.

NM2K

My Feedback: (14)

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Don't get me wrong, I've seen jugs of "bad" fuel and it did have a funky smell as you indicated. It just hasn't happened to me yet and I hope it never does. Of course, my nieces may think that it already has happened to me - that old man smell. But as long as the neighbors don't complain...<G>

The smell kind of reminds me of what the gasoline in the float bowl of an old carb smells like. Really foul, like rotted vegetation. Yes, I'm aware that the chemistries of the model fuel and gasoline are completely different. The fact that they shared a smilar smell made me think that perhaps there was a similar mold, or other biological agent, involved. Something with a taste for both fuels, or perhaps some compound in the containers.


Ed Cregger

buzzingb

My Feedback: (2)

Yes, you know what I am talking about, but so many people don't. I was very surprised by this smell as I am well experienced in dealing with bad gasoline. The color of the fuel was also a clue about the stuff being bad. The one time that my own personal fuel went bad wasn't like that as it smelled as normal and the color was as normal. I think, if I remembe correctly, it was at the end of a wet cold winter and the fuel was probably just water contaminated. The fuel would somewhat run but now as bad as the mans I mentioned earlier. I think I had a bout 1/5 of a jug when this happened and I had transferred the fuel back and forth a few times because of the cold weather thereby increasing the contamination potential.

buzzingb

My Feedback: (2)

My,MY MY this saga will never end. I have just been out in the carport running the new SuperTiger 90. I had a 13X6 prop on the front as this was suggested as a good breakin prop.
The engine is on an Ultra Sport 40 + that has been lengthened by 3". The engine is inverted and no cowling is being used at the moment. I tried my little Hobbyco starter but because the rubber is about worn out, no spinner nut is being used, and the engine is new it wouldn't start it. The starter just was slipping on the prop washer. So I thought to mself, I will just try the chicken stick to see what would happen and the engine started on the first flip. I have started it only once before and ran it for about 6oz. fuel. Thinking it must have been luck I ran it for a few minutes and cut it off to try it again. Same thing first flip it started. Well I decided to see how it idled and transitioned. I found the transition to be dead on and on hesitation at all even running at idle and midthrottle for extended periods of time. I called a man that I fly with to see what he thought about the 90 and what was the largest prop it could handle. He indicated that he had used a 14X6 before. By the way the 13X6 sounded I will venture to bet that the 90 will swing a 13X10 but we will see as I have a 13X10 that I used on the ole Saito 91. I will be running the 13X6 for in the air breakin no need to waste fuel running on the bench. I will report back about this in a few days.

rc34074

My Feedback: (5)

Not24- please give details of the carb you are using. That way anyone else can duplicate your setup without spending hours seaching through the 2300 thread you started.

However my 2300s run the same as yours without changing the carb. 17-8 prop give 9000-9200 rpm. Nice low idle. No rich midrange. I have one of mine in my World Models 80 inch mustang and it flies very well with this setup at about 13-14 lb. I am using a Slimline large volume Pitts muffler with the tubes pinched partway closed. The Slimline gives a nice deep sound from the 2300 - gets rid of the ding ding sound.

buzzingb- sounds like you are getting the g90 sorted out. A properly broken in and setup G90 will turn a 14-6 APC at least 10,800 on the ground. This is the prop I use on mine with a Bisson pitts muffler which has the end of the tubes squeezed down a bit. Without squeezing the tubes the engine has a richer midrange but normally runs a higher top end - about 500 rpm higher as I recall.

All of these numbers are based on 10% Omega fuel, with a Fox rc long or OS f plug. This is the setup I have run in my tigers for years.

Ed

happypappy

My Feedback: (10)

My G90 on the Ultra Stick runs a 13x6 MAS at 12,270 just rich of peak on 10%. Have replaced the carb with a Magnum 1.08 carb and to tell the truth I cannot see a difference in performance as was touted several times on here. What I can tell you is that the Magnum carb is about the most sensitive carb to tune that I have run across. At WOT all it takes is ONE CLICK and am not kidding here and you go from a partial four stroke to just about perfect and two more clicks in and the engine goes way lean. May buy another Tiger carb! Bob let us know how the 13x10 turns out...I have a feeling that acceleration will be sluggish enough that you won't be too happy with that.

Not24

My Feedback: (1)

I'm sure there are better ones out there, but I went with the Magnum 1.08 carb. I made an adapter sleeve to get it to fit the engine. I'm running it with the sleeve in the barrel,although I did test it without it. I have a vp30 pump on it. Not to get it to run right, but to make it run better, and consistently for the whole tank. Now that the pump is on it, I can probably remove the sleeve in the carb and get a little more power. It's on my list of things to do.

Buzz has the same carb on his, but I think no pump. I made the sleeve for his carb too. Pretty sure he's happy with it now.

Jezmo

Just got a new G90 ring for Christmas. After about 1/4 to 1/3 gallon of fuel it is unbelievable on power. Turning a 13X6 APC at 12,400 slightly rich and it will definitely get better. It idles great, transition is great, and just howls on the top. I am going to try a 13X8 after breakin. If it is like the rest of the ST's I have owned it will last me a lifetime as long as I don't give it a dirt nap.

Have a Happy New Year All.....[8D][8D][8D]

10% Byrons fuel
ST plug
13X6 APC
65 deg. F
80% Humidity

NM2K

My Feedback: (14)

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My memory just popped up with some information that I hadn't thought of before.

Could it be that the bad fuels we have experienced had rancid castor oil in them? I would imagine that the fuel would have to contain a really large percentage of castor oil, or maybe the entire percentage being castor oil, in order for it to present itself in such a fashion.

Anyone?


Ed Cregger

speedster 1919

My Feedback: (3)

Ed that sounds plausable.......I read a post where someone was given a skid of really old fuel. Some were perfectly sealed and worked fine and some not so sealed were crap. His thought was not that the poorly sealed cans took on moisture to go bad but the methanol had evaporated leaving a heavy on oil mix ,which didn't work so well..........I think the fuel was like 35 years old.......

misterpanda

Have you encountered any excessive vibration problems using that prop? Had some with my G90 with MAS 13x8. Went to a 14x8 and saw a marked improvement, and very good pulling power.
Regards,
Misterpanda

buzzingb

My Feedback: (2)

I didn't notice any vibrations on the 13X6 but it was an APC.

buzzingb

My Feedback: (2)

I was just looking at the thread about, Wanting Pictures of OS Liners Peeling, and it was sad, sad, sad, to say the least. All of those nice well made engines just flaking off like that. If only they knew.