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K&B Engines... Tell your experiences

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Old 02-28-2002, 01:22 AM
  #26
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Default K&B Engines... Tell your experiences

I have also owned only one Ford!
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Old 02-28-2002, 04:13 AM
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Default K&B Engines... Tell your experiences

Every K&B engine I have ever owned took a VERY long time to break in before it would run properly. Like gallons. After that, they are pretty reliable. And long lasting.
I would take an OS, which you can break in with a couple of rich flights, over the K&B's any day.
The same holds true of the K&B DF engines I have had.
I also noticed a higher rate of lemons coming out of the factory door than most other brands. You get what you pay for, I guess. Now that they are owned by MECOA, I would expect the quality to get worse still. Never impressed my MECOA products.
Break in is the key with these K&B's...
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Old 02-28-2002, 04:31 AM
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Default K&B Engines... Tell your experiences

Ditto! Break-in is the point. then why may the comment that K & B 's are the worst. Mecoa doesn't make them! K & B does. Mecoa doesn't make GMS they just sell them! What about the others that Mecoa sells? Get your facts right Mecoa does not make a darn engine one. they sell them!!! They are a distributor! If you don't like Mecoa be specific state fact not conjecture. Your comments hold no value! you state no fact only personal preferance. give me a reason why!!!! not a fairy tale.
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Old 02-28-2002, 04:41 AM
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Default K&B Engines... Tell your experiences

No sir. Respectfully. RJL/MECOA are both the same company, owned by Randy and Anching Linsanto. They are VERY much in the engine MANUFACTURING business...from Forster 99 replicas to pulsejets to the K&B line, which they purchased just a few years ago. GMS engines they only distrubute, but all the others, they actually make.
And frankly, all the engines I have had out of their factory were lemons. I don't think the OLD K&B was great, quality control wise, and MECOA is probably going to be much worse.
But the vast majority of K&B's are fine, though that is small consolation to the one in twenty or whatever guys who gets a real lemon. A lot of what you pay for when you pay more for an engine is quality control...weeding out the bad parts and engines costs money.
Anyway...re-check your facts, scorpionjack.
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Old 02-28-2002, 04:52 AM
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Default K&B Engines... Tell your experiences

Thanks ET but K & B's are manufactured in Calif. They moved there office and Dies to a new location and were just tooling up when Mecoa came into the picture.
If as you state they are manufacturing Forester again then that pretty much says they are behind the times as Foresters I haven't ran since the Late 50's and early 60's.. They just can't compete with todays technology. A complete new engine with today's technology would have to be introduced.
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Old 02-28-2002, 05:00 AM
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Default K&B Engines... Tell your experiences

Yes. They relocated. To the MECOA factory in California! You are totally wrong about this.
RJL/Mecoa also manufactures a huge range of replica old timers, like the Forster, Cunningham, Hassad, and others.
They also manufacture the HB four stroke engines.
You really should check out their website, www.mecoa.com and get your facts straght.
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Old 02-28-2002, 08:27 AM
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Default K&B Engines... Tell your experiences

Hey E-Tiger, that's HP ... HB is sadly no longer with us (made nice motors, but I know you knew that) .....

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Old 02-28-2002, 11:44 AM
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Default Mecoa

ET;

maybe I should apologize, as I wasn't clear as to the nature of Mecoa. ET is this the Information yoou wanted to see?


RJL also has there own brand and yes they've been buying up the dies from other companies.

K&B was never out of business. It was sold to RJL Industries and did shut down during the move from Lake Havasu, AZ to Monrovia, CA.
As with some of the other companies listed below RJL has bought up many dieing Engine lines and rights to re-manufacturer.

K&B has been owned by several corporations since 1944 but was only sold once recently to RJL Industries, Inc. and it is NOT for sale now.

GMS Made in China distributed by RJL

MECOA Engines produced by Mecoa

HP's were Austrian then the dies purchased by RJL

FUJI's are sold by Mecoa but not produced there.

HB's are still German made and available through Mecoa.

RJL is the worlds largest producer of old time vintage model engines.

Please be sure you know these are antique type engines
and are not suitable for modern modeling.
If you don't know what you're buying, don't buy it.
These engines has very specialized applications.

click on any of the following VINTAGE engines
Atwood .049 Edco Sky Devil .19, .49, .65
Cunningham .647 Forster .29, .35, 99
more VINTAGE engines in process ...
CIE Diesel Johnson .35 Stunt
Elfin 1.8 and 2.49 Diesel ME Snipe .074 and Heron .099 Diesel
Hassad Bluestreak .65 Remco .29
Holland Hornet .049 Viking Twin .65
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Old 02-28-2002, 12:24 PM
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Default scorpianjack

Please tell me what is it about K&B that is not state of the art? I can't see anything about these engines that are not as modern as any of today's engines except for the orginal K&B 40 and 61 they seem as modern as an OS FX series for example.

As for as break-in, the ABC engines are built tighter than OS but so are Jet's and Nelson's, and even ThunderTiger. I think the ringed engines are about average on break in. Longer than OS but shorter than Enya and Fox. Usually longer is better, but sometimes as with SuperTiger it's a result of having a ring without enough ring gap.

The only thing about K&B engines being modern tech is the machining. They used old fasioned jig's and fixtures. RJL is changing it over to CAD. IMO it can have little to do with the final quality of the product. If care is given to manufacture the old fasioned method can produce just as good a product. However, it can affect production costs greatly! Could be why K&B was sold, couldn't compete with older hand made components and cheaper labor overseas.
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Old 02-28-2002, 03:32 PM
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Default Re: scorpianjack

Quote:
Originally posted by Sport_Pilot
Please tell me what is it about K&B that is not state of the art? I can't see anything about these engines that are not as modern as any of today's engines except for the orginal K&B 40 and 61 they seem as modern as an OS FX series for example.


I'm not sure about that. Just because they both look the same does not mean they have the same metallurgy and design underneath. It's a lot of small subtle differences that make a better engine. From the outside, the small block V8 in my grandmother's Duster and the one in a Stock Car look just the same.
The "screamin" series of engines are much newer than the sportsters and stuff. Different animals. I have never run one, so I cannot comment on them.

As for as break-in, the ABC engines are built tighter than OS but so are Jet's and Nelson's, and even ThunderTiger. I think the ringed engines are about average on break in. Longer than OS but shorter than Enya and Fox. Usually longer is better, but sometimes as with SuperTiger it's a result of having a ring without enough ring gap.


No, sir, respectfully. Whatever the nature of their design is, K&B HANDS DOWN takes the longest of any engine I have ever experienced to break in. The only thing that has ever come close is enyas. The difference is, the enya would idle okay after a gallon, even if it was not turning up what it could, whereas the K&B still would not give an acceptable idle until much more fuel ran through.

The only thing about K&B engines being modern tech is the machining. They used old fasioned jig's and fixtures. RJL is changing it over to CAD. IMO it can have little to do with the final quality of the product. If care is given to manufacture the old fasioned method can produce just as good a product.


Exactly! You don't NEED to have CAD/CAM to make a good engine...

However, it can affect production costs greatly!


I think the biggest advantage of CAM is that it probably eliminates a lot of the quality control issues.
Again...a good part of what you pay for when you buy an OS over, say, an ASP is QUALITY CONTROL. You are paying somebody to check each conrod to make sure it is within the proper specs, etc...
With K&B, they were always very inexpensive. You have to expect more lemons at that price. I have seen some of the sportsters that were unrunnable right from the factory, should have never left the door...BUT...they were very cheap when they came out...a bargain.
You pays your money and you takes your chances, as they say.

Could be why K&B was sold, couldn't compete with older hand made components and cheaper labor overseas.

You bet.

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Old 02-28-2002, 03:46 PM
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Default People hung up on Sportsters.

Folks those were not a typical K&B engine. They were made to be very enexpensive. They are not made anymore and will not be in the future. I have never owned one and never will, but all of the other K&B's are fine engines.
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Old 02-28-2002, 05:36 PM
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Default K&B Engines... Tell your experiences

My experience with the break in has been much different than yours. I do not say that K&B are bad engines, though. It's just with so many (in my opinion) BETTER choices out there, I cannot see ever getting another. By the time I buy a couple of gallons of fuel and wear out some earplugs getting it broken in, I could have bought an OS. One of the silver old ones, not an LA, mind you!
There are PLENTY of people out there flying K&B quite happily. I will give them credit...they are a long lasting engine. Also...the sportster series, again, are totally different engines. To me, they are the modern equivalent of an old Rogers "slag" engine! Too cheap for me.
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Old 02-28-2002, 05:46 PM
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Default EASYTIGER

Back a few years ago I would have agreed with you about OS being a better engine. But now aday's with insta peal liners and other quality problems I'm not sure they are better quality than K&B. And I have never never seen ANY ABC engine take a couple of gallons of fuel to break in. The longest I have seen is my ThunderTiger .46 which took almost half a gallon before the black crud stopped coming out of the engine. OK Ok come to think of it it took almost that much on an ASP 90 two stroke, but then it sucks twice as much fuel. You getting the ABC and ringed models mixed up are you not? Even OS ringed engines will take a couple of gallons to break in!
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Old 02-28-2002, 06:31 PM
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Default K&B Engines... Tell your experiences

I had a K&B 61. Piece -O - Junk. It went back to the factory and came back just as broke as when it left. They say if you put a Perry Carb on them they will run. So why buy and engine and then another carb? I traded it for a Pitts Muffler and a mini servo. I was happy. Just don't get me started on Fox engines!
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Old 02-28-2002, 06:38 PM
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Default Re: EASYTIGER

Quote:
Originally posted by Sport_Pilot
Back a few years ago I would have agreed with you about OS being a better engine. But now aday's with insta peal liners and other quality problems I'm not sure they are better quality than K&B. And I have never never seen ANY ABC engine take a couple of gallons of fuel to break in. The longest I have seen is my ThunderTiger .46 which took almost half a gallon before the black crud stopped coming out of the engine. OK Ok come to think of it it took almost that much on an ASP 90 two stroke, but then it sucks twice as much fuel. You getting the ABC and ringed models mixed up are you not? Even OS ringed engines will take a couple of gallons to break in!

Let's not get into the whole peeling liner and blue OS thing. It's been beaten to death. As I see it, even OS makes mistakes now and then! But this is a topic about K&B's, so put the subject to bed.

My experience has been different than yours with the break in. Every K&B has taken a lot of fuel before it would idle. Every OS, ringed or ABC, has not.
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Old 02-28-2002, 06:40 PM
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Why would you replace the metal carb with a plastic one of almost the same design? Just want to know why it would run better since they are very similar carbs. There are some small internal differances but in operation I cannot tell the differance between a K&B and Perry carb.

Also your post is the only complaint about the carb. Feeling lonely?
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Old 02-28-2002, 07:10 PM
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Default K&B Engines... Tell your experiences

No.. I don't feel a bit lonely. I didn't replace the carb with another similar carb. That was the recommendation to those who had K&B troubles and that's what some have done. When I called K&B about the 61 I had their first response was "Sounds like the carb is trashed". I guess those small differences in the K&B carb and the Perry Carb are enough to make a K&B run.

I thought this thread was to discuss whether or not we liked K&B engines. Are you the board expert? I'm sorry to enter your kingdom, sire. I shall make my retreat back to the dungeon.
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Old 02-28-2002, 07:19 PM
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Default Praise be the OS Engine God King!

So its fair to talk about K&B's mistakes and ignore OS's! Sorry but I didn't know that was the debate rules.

Ok now I know from now on I can talk about K&B's and every other engine make's mistakes. But I cannot mention OS mistakes or else the Engine God King will strike me down!

OS makes great engines for beginers (ok, maybe not the raw beginer but after the first year or so), and a few great engines for the pro, but they leave someting to be desired in the middle.

EASYTIGER SAID

Every OS, ringed or ABC, has not.

Tell that to the helio guys who typically take a gallon or two to break in a OS SX 50. I think you will be seing more ringed OS engines, they seem unwilling to use chrome and they got a pretty bad nose bleed from the insta peal liners. It will be intresting to see how newbies take to them. I dunno, maybe they will be cussing OS and praising K&B.
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Old 02-28-2002, 07:26 PM
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Default Are you the board expert?

LOL! No.

I just like to argue, and I usually know what I am talking about.

If what people say on the boards gets you angry I suggest not reading the boards. Jousting with words is a sport just like boxing, and a lot more civilized!
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Old 02-28-2002, 07:39 PM
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Come to think of it I think I have heard of carb problems in the past. Seems a large batch of them went out with bad orrifices on the spraybar. I bought a K&B 40 and 61 in 1997 or 98 and another a year later. The 40 has an eccentric screw that will occasionally shift a bit, the 61 has a serrated idle disk with a wire spring and that works fine.

I don't know why you and many other's hate remote needles, if they are airtight they work fine, and the K&B remote needle is much higher quality than an OS remote needle.

It helps to try out differant products and differant aspects of our hobby, I was somewhat supprised that Fox makes an extremely high quality remote needle valve, it has a teflon seal which is very airtight. So much so I have used it to modify a control line model for remote needle. You can do this with RC carbs also, you just take out the needle, plug the hole with a screw or epoxy, and put the remote needle in the fuel line.
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Old 02-28-2002, 08:32 PM
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Default K&B Engines... Tell your experiences

My first K&B was a .40 and I ran it for more than 10years on many types of airplanes. I also had a .61 with a Perry pump on the backplate and a special large venturi carb which ran good for the first season. After the first season, I had to bypass the pump and installed a standard carb. It ran for at least 10 years with great success. I had a regular .61 which ran for as many years as the first one. I had a Sportster .45 whith which I never had any success. I gave it to a guy who wanted to try to make it work but I don't know if he made it. I won a Sportser .65 in a raffle and after the bad experience with the .45, I didn't want to lose my time with it and it stayed in its box for 2 years before I decided to give it a try. At first it didn'ts seem any better than the previous .45 until I read somewhere that if I took the baffle out of the muffler, it would solve all its problems and mines. I did it and it worked.
I'm now running a .82 Ducted fan and a 100 Ducted fan and I'm absolutely satisfied with them. The 82 is not as powerfull as an OS91 but as reliable and powerfull enough to give me good performance on a sportjet with a Dynamax fan. The 100 is as powerfull as an OS91 but not as reliable and I blew one up in very few flights on a Dynamax fan. The one I'm running now drives a Byron fan which loads the engine a lot more and I think it's gona help the engine life.
That's the experience I had with K&B in conclusion I would say they are in the good average motors on the market.
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Old 03-01-2002, 01:49 AM
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Default Sport Pilot

Excuse me... I didn't know we were having a word battle. I'm up for that. Apparently from your post above, I knew what I was talking about too. But I didn't mention a remote needle anywhere. I was talking about the carb on a K&B 61. The topic at hand was .. K&B Engines: Tell your experiences. If you want to trash OS then start an "OS Stinks" thread. Comments on the board do not anger me, but someone who wasn't there questioning my experience who thinks they have all the answers bore me. You don't say where you are but I'd have to guess that you are somewhere above the Mason-Dixon line. Now this is totally off topic so I will not respond to any of your jousting. :boxing: To the original poster, I apologize for getting off topic.
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Old 03-01-2002, 02:12 AM
  #48
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Sorry to offend. But many seem to try another brand and never come back. I had A K&B in the 70's with Perry Carb and more recently just after getting back into the hobby. The newer ones were just as good as the old ones and almost as good as my TunderTiger. In fact they would be as good except they are loud. On the 40 the carb needs tweaking a bit more than most. OS is a good engine but highly overrated. The FX series are no better nor worse than many other brands, hopefully the liner problem is solved, but time will tell.

I did not say you hated remote needles, just that some did.

I replied to your posts honestly, just a little lite humor on the fact you were the only post complaining about the carb. Actually I am a bit suprised that their were not more of them, as most people are familiar with twin needle and air bleed types. I forgot and then recalled that they had a spat of bad spraybars, apparently this was before I bought mine, sorry if they didn't help you out, they probably replaced one bad spraybar with another bad spraybar. The fact there are not more posts about bad carburation is I think proof that the problem is fixed.

I just didn't like the fact that it was ok to trash a K&B but not OS!

Now if you have a problem with that, you have a problem with that.

And I am living in Atlanta, GA., born in Pensacola Fl., raised in Huntsville, AL. Lived as far south as Miami, and far north as Hagerstown Md.
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Old 03-01-2002, 03:10 AM
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Default K&B Engines... Tell your experiences

My K&B has never run reliably. First problem was that the carb would not stay on the engine block. Finally filed a flat spot for the screw and loc-tight seems to hold it in.

Then something came loose in the firing chamber, scoured the cylinder wall, and caused total loss of compression. Parts from other flyers' leftovers put the engine back together.

Now the low end can't be adjusted. When applying pressure on the adjustment screw, it moves in (without turning) and causes the engine to die. Makes it darned frusterating to have to restart so many times.

I'm afraid that this engine will end up with my brand-new Fox Eagle - on the "Do not use" bench.
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Old 03-01-2002, 03:34 AM
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Default I have no problem.

Sport Pilot,

Just a couple of posts up in a message with my name in the heading you said: "I don't know why you and many other's hate remote needles" Sounds like you are saying I said I hate remote needles.

What say we drop this bantor and be friends. We got off to a bad start. :sunsmiley

I don't care where or when or what you trash. Just don't trash me in the process. Then I care.

Apology accepted.
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