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Best On-Board Glow Plug Driver ? - Which one and Why ?

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Old 09-13-2007, 10:39 AM
  #1
NikolayTT
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Default Best On-Board Glow Plug Driver ? - Which one and Why ?

Hi Fellows,

A "smart" On-Board glow plug driver, when set properly, seems to me
should do:
1. Let me use no more nitro in my planes and still have stable low RPM.
2. Let me use almost any glow plug and get very good performance.
3. Replace (?) the need of Computer Second Carb needle control for
example, by well pogrammed Microcontroller work of the On-board
glow plug driver.
....
kind of "universal" medication for all problems. Of course there isn't such
thing anywhere about anything, thus I wander what would be the best
choice ? Or if you have experience with more than one, then please post
a comparative estimate.

Аlso please Update the List of the Good things and add the Bad things
about those onboard glow plug drivers, especially those Bad things
are important because one cannot read them in most manufacturer
manuals indeed.

Thanks,
Nick
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Old 09-13-2007, 11:08 AM
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Default RE: Best Glow Plug Driver ? - Which one and Why ?

Are you asking about a glow driver used only for starting or are you asking about one that at times is used in flight to augment the self sustaining glow plug?
JLK
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Old 09-13-2007, 12:30 PM
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Default RE: Best Glow Plug Driver ? - Which one and Why ?

Why most people thinks to be needed a glow driver to have a good idling?I use self mix no nitro 20% castor fuel always and even my inverted Chinese engines idles so well without any glow driver.
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Old 09-13-2007, 01:25 PM
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Default RE: Best Glow Plug Driver ? - Which one and Why ?


Quote:
ORIGINAL: jlkonn

Are you asking about a glow driver used only for starting or are you asking about one that at times is used in flight to augment the self sustaining glow plug?
JLK
It was written in the last couple lines that it is onboard driver; I will edit the text so this gets upper position.
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Old 09-13-2007, 01:37 PM
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Default RE: Best Glow Plug Driver ? - Which one and Why ?

Quote:
ORIGINAL: Turk1

Why most people thinks to be needed a glow driver to have a good idling?I use self mix no nitro 20% castor fuel always and even my inverted Chinese engines idles so well without any glow driver.
Simple Answer: Because not everybody lives in hot and dry places, and also if you use
two or more engines on your plane the engine stop might be the "end-of-story".

And it is not so simple in fact: - The are lot more tricky things which can make your engine
perform lot better, for example Computer Controlled Transition and Leaning, when you
get max performance of the engine and faster control than any pilot can do.

Have a look at the link below, and couple of the photos are taken from there:

http://h1069662.hobbyshopnow.com/pro...e=1252-ART.xml

I.e. the more deep question is: - Could some one AVOID the use of 2 needles Carb,
second Servo and also expensive Transmitter if the Microcontroller of the On-board
Glow plug driver can help in all this ?
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Old 09-13-2007, 05:22 PM
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Default RE: Best On-Board Glow Plug Driver ? - Which one and Why ?

Nikolay,

Sullivan just came out with their new onboard driver that has got to be the simplest design i've ever seen.
i have one installed in my GP Super Stearman at present running my OS FT1.60 twin. with it i can idle well down below the normal rpm.
you can set the on point anywhere you want at a touch of the button, and you can hit the start button to light the plugs above that point if you like, then press the start button again and it resorts back to your original preset.
it plugs into your reciever, then your servo for throttle plugs into it, and you can plug an onboard battery pack (not the Rx pack) and go all day. the unit wieghs just over an ounce and is small and easy to mount............here is a link to it

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXRYK2&P=0

and a link to Sullivans instruction sheet (go there and click on the inst. sheet link)

http://www.sullivanproducts.com/
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Old 09-13-2007, 05:46 PM
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Default RE: Best On-Board Glow Plug Driver ? - Which one and Why ?

Try this one.....I use it in my 27% Cap 232 and it works great.

http://electrodynam.com/rc/EDR-103/index.shtml
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Old 09-13-2007, 11:23 PM
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Default RE: Best On-Board Glow Plug Driver ? - Which one and Why ?

The setpoints of the sullivan and the fact I can use a 7.4 volt LiPo, is my first choice. It is very new to the market, I don't have enough time on mine to say anything bad yet.

I've used the Nelson "intelligent" glow driver and have had fantastic results. It senses the resistance of the plug and gives power when needed instead of being on all the time below a set throttle point. But limited to only single cell ni-cd and ni-mh for power.

My dream system would be the Nelson running on Lithium rather than single cells.
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Old 09-14-2007, 12:51 AM
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Default RE: Best On-Board Glow Plug Driver ? - Which one and Why ?

Thanks for the replies and Advices!
Couple questions related to them: - Did you observe any Jitter in the Receiver and any
Servo in case of Sullivan because the ability to use any battery from 1.2V till 12V comes
most likely with the use of Switching DC-DC converter inside of the Sullivan and that is
very much Electrical noise generating unit, especially for FM radios and to some extend
for PCM and even maybe 2.4GHz. That is maybe the stronger reason to NOT use the
receiver battery, not the capacity of the battery itself.

Also for the Electrodynamic driver: beside the problem of battery, it is a wander in their
circuit diagram in case of two separate engines how the Glow driver will know the
RPMs of the other engine, and even more dangerously - if one of the glow plugs
gets broken then there will be no current going to the other one since they are in
series; in Sullivan they are in parallel. And Sullivan is smarly avoiding to tell that
their driver is OK for Two separate engines. Still they tell nothing aobut that
conversion noise ...

Cheers,
Nick
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Old 09-14-2007, 12:54 AM
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Default RE: Best On-Board Glow Plug Driver ? - Which one and Why ?


Quote:
ORIGINAL: More HP

The setpoints of the sullivan and the fact I can use a 7.4 volt LiPo, is my first choice. It is very new to the market, I don't have enough time on mine to say anything bad yet.

I've used the Nelson "intelligent" glow driver and have had fantastic results. It senses the resistance of the plug and gives power when needed instead of being on all the time below a set throttle point. But limited to only single cell ni-cd and ni-mh for power.

My dream system would be the Nelson running on Lithium rather than single cells.
Could you please post the link for that Nelson driver ?
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Old 09-14-2007, 03:29 AM
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Default RE: Best On-Board Glow Plug Driver ? - Which one and Why ?

http://www.nelsonhobby.com/electr.html
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Old 09-14-2007, 03:47 AM
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Default RE: Best On-Board Glow Plug Driver ? - Which one and Why ?

Quote:
Thanks! - This one looks having some Software/Firmware running inside.
And it seems quite different that the others already mentioned.
Did you have to do something like:
1. Do programming on the Transmitter for this one?
2. Do some setting on the GlowPlugDriver or in fact are there any access points like that ?
3. Did you notice any Jitter on Receiver or Servo when this unit is active, i.e.
especially at LOW rpm ?

Regards,
Nick
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Old 09-14-2007, 12:00 PM
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Default RE: Best On-Board Glow Plug Driver ? - Which one and Why ?

It doesn't have any software that I'm aware of. The way I understand it is it measures the resistance of the plug while the engine is running. You blip the throttle stick and it lights the plug for 5 seconds or something so you can start the engine. Then use the adjustable potentiometer to adjust how often it comes on while running (every brand of plug has it's own resistance).

Once it's set where you want that's pretty much it. The system has a LED light that lights up everytime it gives power to the plug, it is so quick it will actually light the plug on just one combustion cycle. So while the engine is running it's constantly checking the resistance across the filament of the plug. Depending on where you have it adjusted, if it's cranked all the way up the light will be on all the time basically and your little single cell ni-cd dies quickly, back off on the adjustment and work the throttle up and down and watch the light power the plug more at low RPM than at mid throttle or full throttle. If the needles of the carb are adjusted correctly it shouldn't be on that much at all, saving battery power as well.

It's nice to be able to start the engine without hassles, especially if it is concealed under a cowl. And flameouts even happen to the best of us needle jockeys, it's nice not having to worry about that on a scale model you've invested lots of time and $ money on.

I have used it most on a boat that was 4 stroke powered, when an engine is still not up to operating temps it lights more at low rpm than it would towards the end of the run. And it's cool to notice when the low speed needle is set just right, it hardly needs to light the plug at all, but is always there ready to step in if it is too rich on a particular day with different weather or fuel. Also nice when the engine has been idling for long periods and you want full throttle quick, it lights for a few revs with no hesitation.

I have not had any glitches or Rx problems with this system at all.
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Old 09-14-2007, 03:51 PM
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Default RE: Best On-Board Glow Plug Driver ? - Which one and Why ?

hey MoreHP,

thanks for posting the link to the Nelson...............i like it, and will probably give that one a try as well.

Nikolay,
as of now i have not had any servo jitter or any other ill fated side affects with the Sullivan, but i'm also using 2.4GHz radios.
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Old 09-14-2007, 04:07 PM
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Default RE: Best On-Board Glow Plug Driver ? - Which one and Why ?


Quote:
ORIGINAL: summerwind

Nikolay,

Sullivan just came out with their new onboard driver that has got to be the simplest design i've ever seen.
i have one installed in my GP Super Stearman at present running my OS FT1.60 twin. with it i can idle well down below the normal rpm.
you can set the on point anywhere you want at a touch of the button, and you can hit the start button to light the plugs above that point if you like, then press the start button again and it resorts back to your original preset.
it plugs into your reciever, then your servo for throttle plugs into it, and you can plug an onboard battery pack (not the Rx pack) and go all day. the unit wieghs just over an ounce and is small and easy to mount............here is a link to it

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXRYK2&P=0

and a link to Sullivans instruction sheet (go there and click on the inst. sheet link)

http://www.sullivanproducts.com/
I was just checking this one out and it looks like it could be plug into the reciever pack. No extra battery needed. This would work great on small 4.5 pound 3D planes.
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Old 09-14-2007, 06:48 PM
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Default RE: Best On-Board Glow Plug Driver ? - Which one and Why ?

They say that's a big no-no... The two systems should have their own battery. Theoretically yes, one power source could run both at the same time, but in the interest of safety, ie. short circuits, interference, or whatever, they advise to run seperate batteries.
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Old 09-14-2007, 07:34 PM
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Default RE: Best On-Board Glow Plug Driver ? - Which one and Why ?


Quote:
ORIGINAL: More HP

They say that's a big no-no... The two systems should have their own battery. Theoretically yes, one power source could run both at the same time, but in the interest of safety, ie. short circuits, interference, or whatever, they advise to run seperate batteries.

I don't see where it would cause a problem. I think I would try it. I'd just splice into the wires coming from the RX pack.
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Old 09-14-2007, 09:00 PM
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Default RE: Best On-Board Glow Plug Driver ? - Which one and Why ?

i wouldn't try running the Rx and the Glow driver off the same battery either..........glow plugs do draw some hefty amperage.
what is to be gained by not using a seperate battery?.....................3-4oz's?
Sullivan warns heavily against it as well.
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Old 09-15-2007, 01:27 AM
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Default RE: Best On-Board Glow Plug Driver ? - Which one and Why ?

Quote:
ORIGINAL: mrbigg


Quote:
ORIGINAL: More HP

They say that's a big no-no... The two systems should have their own battery. Theoretically yes, one power source could run both at the same time, but in the interest of safety, ie. short circuits, interference, or whatever, they advise to run seperate batteries.

I don't see where it would cause a problem. I think I would try it. I'd just splice into the wires coming from the RX pack.

I see it a Potential Problem and that is why I asked if there is JITTER: - you see simple calculations
lead me to suspect that there is Switching Type of DC-DC convertor when Sullivan claims that that
operate on any battery until 12V. OK ... If for simplicity take the Battery voltage is 11.5V and then
substract 1.5 staying on the Glow plyg, the rest is 10V to be on the Sullivan. And then if the plug takes
something like 3.5A to get red than it looks Sullivan would dissipate about 35Watts, i.e. that needs
a heat sink and such thing is not seen on their photos. More importantly, if that is the case, then
1.5Vx3.5A=5.25W on the Glow Plug vs. 35W on Sullivan that makes 15% efficiency in the USE of
the Battery. Well, nobody does such bad job nowadays, people use DC-DC converters with at
least 85% efficiency like those in the Motor for Electric Flights. And they get that efficiency by
switching On/Off with some 5-100 kHz rate and there the Electrical Noise is generated and that
is why one has to take care to eliminate it like in the Electric flights such noise is nicely supressed
for all Brush or Brushless motors Controllers which are similar kind of DC-DC converter.
Most likely Sullivan has taken good care for this but due to the other reasons, like battery exhaustion
your Radio would "die" while the engine might still run ...
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Old 09-15-2007, 01:46 AM
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Default RE: Best On-Board Glow Plug Driver ? - Which one and Why ?

Hi Guys,

Meanwhile I have foind the following two Glow plug Drivers:

1. One which is made by Engine-manufacturer(!) Webra; it seems
a very advanced and very good competitor to Nelson and also
at lower cost:

http://www.webra-austria.at/electron...WNLOAD&lang=EN

and download the instructions from the middle of the page .PDF file

Glowplug control unit eGL1.1 20430.pdf

2. One which uses LiPo Batteries beside any other kind of batteries
from Microsense:
http://www.microsens.at/rcflight/navigation.htm

Thanks to your Comments Advices and also after reading the Manuals
it seems I am going to try that from Webra, it is as easy as Nelson to
operate, it is lot cheaper and maybe I am a bit biased to Webra because
their Engines are one of the best on the market especially for low RPM.

Of course we do not know who else is using what, so let see who will
reply and comment next days to come.

Warm Thanks to all who adviced, and lets keep the discussion on !

Cheers,
Nick
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Old 09-15-2007, 07:40 AM
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Default RE: Best On-Board Glow Plug Driver ? - Which one and Why ?


Quote:
ORIGINAL: summerwind

i wouldn't try running the Rx and the Glow driver off the same battery either..........glow plugs do draw some hefty amperage.
what is to be gained by not using a seperate battery?.....................3-4oz's?
Sullivan warns heavily against it as well.
That's quite abit on a 4.5 pound plane. If your using 2800 li-ions you'd have plenty of juice. I would do some testing on the ground before of course.
I'm running a TME smoke pump off the ignition battery of my ZDZ 120 and have not had a major increase in battery drainage. Less than what I thought it would be.
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Old 09-15-2007, 08:27 AM
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Default RE: Best On-Board Glow Plug Driver ? - Which one and Why ?


Quote:
ORIGINAL: mrbigg


Quote:
ORIGINAL: summerwind

i wouldn't try running the Rx and the Glow driver off the same battery either..........glow plugs do draw some hefty amperage.
what is to be gained by not using a seperate battery?.....................3-4oz's?
Sullivan warns heavily against it as well.
That's quite abit on a 4.5 pound plane. If your using 2800 li-ions you'd have plenty of juice. I would do some testing on the ground before of course.
I'm running a TME smoke pump off the ignition battery of my ZDZ 120 and have not had a major increase in battery drainage. Less than what I thought it would be.
well there you have it...........test,test, and test some more.
again i personally would add the extra wieght and have peace of mind, but if you feel comfy with robbing the Rx battery of juice to also power the glow driver, then by all means go for it.
heck i have a 1,200 watt 5channel amp in my truck the runs fine even though the lights dim quite a bit at idle stting at a stop light...................
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Old 09-15-2007, 08:53 AM
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Default RE: Best On-Board Glow Plug Driver ? - Which one and Why ?


Quote:
ORIGINAL: summerwind


Quote:
ORIGINAL: mrbigg


Quote:
ORIGINAL: summerwind

i wouldn't try running the Rx and the Glow driver off the same battery either..........glow plugs do draw some hefty amperage.
what is to be gained by not using a seperate battery?.....................3-4oz's?
Sullivan warns heavily against it as well.
That's quite abit on a 4.5 pound plane. If your using 2800 li-ions you'd have plenty of juice. I would do some testing on the ground before of course.
I'm running a TME smoke pump off the ignition battery of my ZDZ 120 and have not had a major increase in battery drainage. Less than what I thought it would be.
well there you have it...........test,test, and test some more.
again i personally would add the extra wieght and have peace of mind, but if you feel comfy with robbing the Rx battery of juice to also power the glow driver, then by all means go for it.
heck i have a 1,200 watt 5channel amp in my truck the runs fine even though the lights dim quite a bit at idle stting at a stop light...................
Ahh. the nice stereo. I had to give that up when the kids came along. Too loud.....
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Old 09-15-2007, 09:14 AM
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Default RE: Best On-Board Glow Plug Driver ? - Which one and Why ?

yeah i did too, but now at 52, i enjoy the music in a whole different way.

hey let us know how your testing goes.
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Old 05-16-2012, 05:56 PM
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Default RE: Best On-Board Glow Plug Driver ? - Which one and Why ?

I think RCD3002 smart onboard glow driver is good!

http://www.youtube.com/rcdevice
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