Glow Engines Discuss RC glow engines

ASP/MAGNUM FS400AR Rebuild/Overhaul

Reply
Old 12-18-2012, 06:49 AM
  #1551
Eulboyington
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: CHATELAILLON-PLAGE, FRANCE
Posts: 60
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: ASP/MAGNUM FS400AR Rebuild/Overhaul

Hi all gang,

Another overhaul on a ASP F400 AR, I discoveranother time what is " engine build on monday morning" ... see photos ...
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Hf98181.jpg
Views:	42
Size:	43.5 KB
ID:	1831477   Click image for larger version

Name:	Gb90639.jpg
Views:	41
Size:	44.5 KB
ID:	1831478  
Eulboyington is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 11:57 AM
  #1552
israelillo81
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: DF, MEXICO
Posts: 15
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: ASP/MAGNUM FS400AR Rebuild/Overhaul

Hello Olivier,

Do you have any news in converting the ASP400 from glow to,ignition?. I think i read a post from you where you mentioned doing some research in to adapting some ignition system.

There was alsomone guy in this thread that mention that some small company wanted a sacrifice engine for the sake of making an ignition system for the ASP400.

Somebody already ventured into it?. I have seen some youtube videos of a guy running gasoline/ ignition on a ASP400 but he adapted 5 independent ignitons.

I have also seen that some hobby stores sell ignition systems for some specific 9 cylinder radials, as well as some spare parts, kits from plugs, distributors, coils, hall sensors. But nothing specific for a radial 5 cyl such as the ASP 400.


Regards,

Israel
israelillo81 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 12:25 PM
  #1553
Eulboyington
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: CHATELAILLON-PLAGE, FRANCE
Posts: 60
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: ASP/MAGNUM FS400AR Rebuild/Overhaul

Hello Israel,

RCEXL is working hard about ignitions for radials ; first of all, the 3 cylinders ignitions will come very soon on references 13XX, a verygood new for all SAITO Radials 3cylinders owners and customs engines !
1301 = 3 cylinders / 1/4-32 sparplugs sockets bent 90°,
1302 = 3 cylinders / 1/4-32 sparplugs sockets bent 120°,
1303 = 3 cylinders M10 (NGK CM-6) sparkplugs sockets bent 90°, and
1304 =3 cylinders M10 (NGK CM-6) sparkplugs sockets bent 120°
All LiPo 2S compatibles, expected street price 140 USD

RCEXL is also working on ignition for SANYE Radials 5 cylinders, I had a lot of discussions with Xu Liang about the market and number of radial engines sold in the world.
I'm developping a personal solution for specifichall sensors positioning on the back of theenginewith my "upgrade" rear cover ( quite impossible with original rear cover).
The working solution with 5 x single ignitions is far too heavy and need a lot of place.
With my upgrade cover, those engines can now run with methanol based fuels with 7% lubricants, and theyare ready for a future spark conversion to run with gasoline+ 3 % synthetic oils because the intake gaz goes through the crankcase for better lubricatebefore suck by intake pipes ( As used in EVOLUTION-UMS-SEIDEL and MOKI engines )
I think we will get a technical solution for SANYE Radial engines middle or end of 2013.
Eulboyington is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 12:57 PM
  #1554
Kmot
Thread Starter
 
Kmot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Northridge, CA
Posts: 10,906
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: ASP/MAGNUM FS400AR Rebuild/Overhaul


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Eulboyington


I think we will get a technical solution for SANYE Radial engines middle or end of 2013.
Sweet!!
Kmot is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 02:55 PM
  #1555
jaav
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Broome, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 1,552
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: ASP/MAGNUM FS400AR Rebuild/Overhaul

(Jaav whats the issue with the landing? is thr u/c very poor or is the model tricky to get down without a bump)




last week http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfT8W9eEtNc

some one else. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9KBkURg4b0
jaav is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 09:59 PM
  #1556
Kmot
Thread Starter
 
Kmot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Northridge, CA
Posts: 10,906
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: ASP/MAGNUM FS400AR Rebuild/Overhaul


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Eulboyington

Hi all gang,

Another overhaul on a ASP F400 AR, I discover another time what is '' engine build on monday morning'' ... see photos ...
Olivier, those parts are abominable. Should have been factory rejects with all that porosity. And what about surface finishing of the parts before installing them into an engine? Makes one wonder if the Sanye factory pulled all of its QC inspectors off of the radial engine line to another department!
Kmot is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2012, 07:25 AM
  #1557
Carosel43
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: , UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 923
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: ASP/MAGNUM FS400AR Rebuild/Overhaul

There does seem to be a massive amount of flaws in the material, and the grinding leaves more than a little to be desired thats for sure! the problem is will a replacement be any better? Also i doubt the imperfections will cause a problem for the engine as long as they dont form cracks and break over time. if the crank was in a bush not ball races then clearly something would need to be done.

@ Jaav - i can see the problem, not sure what to do about it mind! but in the 2nd video the guy did kinda throw it at the ground and hope for the best, in your video it was hard to see as the model was a long way away. it seems however that rate f decent is fairly high and the speed it is landing at quite fast, is that as slow as it will go because it seems to takeoff at a far lower speed?
Carosel43 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2012, 05:47 AM
  #1558
Reverend
 
Reverend's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: near Innsbruck, AUSTRIA
Posts: 577
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: ASP/MAGNUM FS400AR Rebuild/Overhaul

First of all, a very merry christmas to all of you!

Frohe Weihnachten und ein gl├╝ckliches neues Jahr!

Not much happening on my side, all three of my radials are on display at a local Hobby ExPo which is running till the 31st. After that I can get back to doing some more testruns, hopefully with the aussi 400 too

FWIW, I think it a bit funny how we are all complaining about the crankcase not getting any lubricant on the standard 400 but on the other hand are all suprised at the high wear on the cam lobes. Isn't problem #1 actually the root of problem #2? The (brand new) lobes on my "old" 400, the one with the 50cc Oil in the front, do not show any signs of wear after 3 hours of operation. I tested the hardness of the lobes with a steel pin which I dropped from 1m (through a pipe) directly onto it. The HSS Pin is blunt, the lobe doesnt even have a scratch. Just a thought.

Rev

PS: Due to that cold white stuff outside I have gone back to the small things in life UMX Spitfire and a bit of airbrushing
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Us54174.jpg
Views:	27
Size:	70.6 KB
ID:	1833333  
Reverend is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2012, 06:01 AM
  #1559
jaav
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Broome, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 1,552
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: ASP/MAGNUM FS400AR Rebuild/Overhaul

I wonder if the Down Under 400 will start in that cold part of the world...I could be like me..very hard to move when Im cold. But I think thats due to the ice princess I love.

Merry Xmas every one..If you can spare some cool weather send it over here. 39degC in our capital tomorrow.
jaav is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2012, 08:17 AM
  #1560
Carosel43
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: , UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 923
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: ASP/MAGNUM FS400AR Rebuild/Overhaul

Hey rev the little spit looks great! i have been tempted by it in the past but never went for it as i have the umx sukhoi and rarely fly it.

Back to radials for a moment and this talk of wear on the cam lobes is a confusion to me. Mainly because i have yet to see any actual wear. by that i mean if the part was wearing we would see metal particles in the oil, the valves would go out of adjustment all the time and would end up loosing lift. Theedges of the lobes would likely be peeled over aswell. Now i can see a polished area there but is that actual wear? if someone can measure a new one and then run it and measure it again then we might get some real evidence.

The other piece of radial news is that ESM have a new Zero comming out. looks very nice in the pics and is designed for 35-50cc petrol. that means the 400 should fit the bill nicely!
Carosel43 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2012, 11:30 AM
  #1561
Kmot
Thread Starter
 
Kmot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Northridge, CA
Posts: 10,906
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: ASP/MAGNUM FS400AR Rebuild/Overhaul


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Carosel43
Back to radials for a moment and this talk of wear on the cam lobes is a confusion to me. Mainly because i have yet to see any actual wear.
Hi Jon,

Here is my original cam, after approximately 60 minutes of run time. You may disagree, but I see wear and in particular, galling of the cam.

Merry Christmas and Happy (your particular) Holiday to all!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Us52821.jpg
Views:	32
Size:	83.8 KB
ID:	1833433  
Kmot is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2012, 11:39 AM
  #1562
Reverend
 
Reverend's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: near Innsbruck, AUSTRIA
Posts: 577
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: ASP/MAGNUM FS400AR Rebuild/Overhaul


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Kmot


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Carosel43
Back to radials for a moment and this talk of wear on the cam lobes is a confusion to me. Mainly because i have yet to see any actual wear.
Hi Jon,

Here is my original cam, after approximately 60 minutes of run time. You may disagree, but I see wear and in particular, galling of the cam.

Merry Christmas and Happy (your particular) Holiday to all!
Tom,

any thoughts on the lubrication problem? Don't you think it would be much better if proper amounts of Oil would get to the Cams?

Rev
Reverend is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2012, 11:40 AM
  #1563
Carosel43
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: , UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 923
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: ASP/MAGNUM FS400AR Rebuild/Overhaul

Hi Tom, i think i can see what you are getting at. do you have a photo from the other angle to see if there is any kind of groove worn in the lobe?
Carosel43 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2012, 11:45 AM
  #1564
Carosel43
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: , UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 923
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: ASP/MAGNUM FS400AR Rebuild/Overhaul



Also why are we suspecting a lack of lube? i ask because my engine pours oil from the bases of all the pushrod tubes (as well as everywhere else) and my rocker covers on the lower cylinders are filling with oil as well.

One thing i was thinking was that the cam followers are not the same width as the cam lobe itself, but as this design would have been copied from os i can only assume its a materials problem if there is wear

Carosel43 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2012, 12:03 PM
  #1565
Kmot
Thread Starter
 
Kmot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Northridge, CA
Posts: 10,906
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: ASP/MAGNUM FS400AR Rebuild/Overhaul


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Carosel43

Hi Tom, i think i can see what you are getting at. do you have a photo from the other angle to see if there is any kind of groove worn in the lobe?
Not really, but there is this:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=6788411
Kmot is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2013, 07:18 AM
  #1566
Reverend
 
Reverend's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: near Innsbruck, AUSTRIA
Posts: 577
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: ASP/MAGNUM FS400AR Rebuild/Overhaul

Gentlemen,

first of all a happy new year. Did not start so well on the radial side here. after changing all the cylinder liners i still have no compression. I disassembled one head and had a look at the valves under the microscope...

Well, I think I have solved it. They are completely corroded too.

Checked with Just Engines what new valves will cost: EUR 23.- the pair + shipment. Checked with HK: Whole Cylinderhead assembly is 25.- inkl. Import tax... Ordered five new heads.

I am now officially 200 Euros short of buying a new Engine if I sum up all the parts and the engine I traded. On the other Hand I will have a polished, 80% new and brilliantly bearinged FS400AR with Keleo Exhaust

Rev

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Nl30757.jpeg
Views:	41
Size:	74.1 KB
ID:	1836134  
Reverend is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2013, 10:15 AM
  #1567
Kmot
Thread Starter
 
Kmot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Northridge, CA
Posts: 10,906
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: ASP/MAGNUM FS400AR Rebuild/Overhaul

Happy New Year to all radial gear heads!

Phillip, you get an "A" for effort. Hopefully this engine will come to life and reward you with many years of service as a 'thank you' for saving its butt!
Kmot is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2013, 11:11 PM
  #1568
jaav
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Broome, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 1,552
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: ASP/MAGNUM FS400AR Rebuild/Overhaul

Rev, I thought it was strange you saying the valves were ok after all other metal parts were corroded. This engine was always low on comp, but ran well when hot.

The OS broke another exhaust manifold again..
jaav is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2013, 03:11 AM
  #1569
Carosel43
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: , UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 923
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: ASP/MAGNUM FS400AR Rebuild/Overhaul

Those valves do look rather unhappy, i will be very interested to see how the new heads perform and how the valve seats are cut as i may update my own engine. Or, i may just buy another one!

Sadly however there is no point at the moment as there is no flying due to weather and i have no money! i may get out at the weekend but not with the radial, the field is just too wet. I have however moved the tank to prevent fuel pickup problems at low fuel with nose down attitude. I almsot lost the model because of this and i loose a good minute of flying time as well as i have to land early to prevent it cutting on downwind.

When the model is back in the air i am looking to mix up some low oil fuel. I plan to try 4 or 5% synth oil and 1 or 2% castor with 5% nitro. I will run with the drain plug in place so oil will accumulate in the crankcase. Naturally i will do a few ground runs and keep a close eye on the discharge oil for metal particles or other signs of wear. Honestly i think it will be ok as there is more than enough oil flying round the engine at the moment. In fact it leaks everywhere. i will clearly keep you all updated
Carosel43 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2013, 06:41 AM
  #1570
rockin daddy
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Fredericktown, PA
Posts: 50
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: ASP/MAGNUM FS400AR Rebuild/Overhaul

Hey Reverend:

A small lathe with a collet set-up could have held the valves.   Using a fine abrasive stone mounted with a piece of leather in the tool holder would have resurfaced the valve surfaces.    I don't know of a small valve seat resurfacer that would have a tiny pilot that would fit in the guide to repair the valve seats.  One would have to make one.   But automotive valve seat compound might have resurfaced the valve seats.   It is tedious as you have to rotate the valves while in the head.   I have glued a rubber washer on the end of a dowel rod to spin the valve against the seat.  

I had an old Saito 65 that was really tired and worn out from many hours in the air.  I resurfaced the valves.   Once reseated, the engine with new piston and ring had a good bit of compression.   The motor ran for another 5 years,  battery failure put the plane in.    Straight in!!!!   The valve seat job took some time but it worked.   Doing 5 cylinders would have 5 times the labor;  big task.  

Have a bunch of Saito motors including a 325 radial that runs great.   Have never mounted and ran my ASP 400.  Its still in the box.   Sure like to read of all your experiences with the 400 radial.   Really liked the Carosel's video of his radial pulling his plane around.  Hope to have a Gee Bee Sportster ready for spring with the Saito 325 on it.   Have a great 2013 !
rockin daddy is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2013, 07:09 AM
  #1571
Reverend
 
Reverend's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: near Innsbruck, AUSTRIA
Posts: 577
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: ASP/MAGNUM FS400AR Rebuild/Overhaul

rockin daddy

thanks for the advice. I had already tried reseating the valves (used a pin vice to hold them while turning them with silver polish compound) and still had no compression. thats why I looked at them under the microscope and you can see pits about .5mm deep. Turning those out on a lathe would basically leave no material on the valve so i ordered new ones.

rev

Reverend is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2013, 09:05 AM
  #1572
Carosel43
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: , UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 923
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: ASP/MAGNUM FS400AR Rebuild/Overhaul

One thing i found with my engine is i think the valves are quite soft, i was thinking they could have been polished up again but i agree with what you say about the pitting, there would be nothing left.

Thanks for the kind words about my video i am looking forward to doing another when the sun comes out!
Carosel43 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2013, 07:55 PM
  #1573
The Raven
 
The Raven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Melbourne, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 962
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: ASP/MAGNUM FS400AR Rebuild/Overhaul

Hi All,

This question isn't directed at the radial ASP specifically, but can anyone assist with details on the rocker arm shaft E-clips that fit on the singles? I've fitted new bearings to a number of ASP/Magnum engines and discovered that a few are missing E-clips for the rocker arm shaft (which might explain at least one unexpected rod failure).

These E-clips are listed as ASP/Magnum part number 80517. Can anyone assist with details on where to source these (I'm in Australia)? Specifically, these are the 'standard' sized E-clips used (at least) on the 52 through 120 sized engines. I need at least 3 to get a few motors running again.

Assuming most of these are bought in bulk, if someone could spare a few I'd be happy to work out some form of exchange.
The Raven is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2013, 09:41 PM
  #1574
Kmot
Thread Starter
 
Kmot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Northridge, CA
Posts: 10,906
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: ASP/MAGNUM FS400AR Rebuild/Overhaul

Got my engine dry fitted for the purposes of figuring out the mounting.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Us53984.jpg
Views:	36
Size:	299.8 KB
ID:	1839404   Click image for larger version

Name:	Lg17344.jpg
Views:	29
Size:	141.5 KB
ID:	1839405  
Kmot is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2013, 04:31 AM
  #1575
Carosel43
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: , UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 923
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: ASP/MAGNUM FS400AR Rebuild/Overhaul

Hi Raven, i would suggest to try contactig just engines. they might be able to help. Their web address is www.justengines.co.uk

Tom, that looks ace! how long do you think until she can fly?
Carosel43 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 06:26 AM.