cinnabunn1

I have an Evolution 46 engine on a Fun 51. It will idle consistently but not run much past half throttle. When I increase throttle the engine starts to surge. Performance is better when the glow igniter is attached. I've heard that this isn't a great cold weather flyer. Temperatures here are near freezing at lunch time when we fly. I am using Omega 15%, but tried Cool Power 15 with the same results. Using 11X5 prop. Training flywheel still attached. The engine gets good and hot when I run it. Any thoughts other than waiting for Summer?

Thanks

Doug

Flyboy Dave

My Feedback: (21)

....try a hotter glow plug, like a Fox Miracle plug.

cinnabunn1

Using a Fox Miracle glow plug.

proptop

My Feedback: (8)

It sounds like it might be too lean? Do you have the high speed needle opened to the stop on the limiter?

We usually remove those blue limiters on the mixture control needles, because quite often you can run out of adjustment and need to turn the needle more than the limiter will allow.

In cold weather the engine will usually need more fuel... because cold air is denser, you need to run the engine richer. If the engine is getting quite hot, even in cold weather, that means it's lean and not getting enough fuel.

Also, try a hot plug like an O.S. A3 or the Hangar 9 Super Plug like the one that came with the engine.

blw

My Feedback: (3)

I've been through this same scenario with a few Evolution engines. For the most part, your plug is too cold. I have not seen any Evolution 2 stroke that will run at full power with an OS 8 plug. They run better with a Saito SS 4 stroke plug. They run even better with hotter plugs. I haven't tried the A3 yet myself, but that would be the plug to use on your engine. When my last ancient Tower's plug is gone, I'll be using only A3 plugs. The change in the engines behavior is remarkable when you do this.

The surging that you are experiencing is most likely excess fuel that isn't being combusted due to the cold glow plug. You may be able to nurse the throttle until it burns it off and heats up.

These engines put out a lot of power for their displacement, and run great when treated right. First, take the baffle out of your muffler for more power.

Next, take of the counterweight (flywheel) and throw it as far as you can. Get rid of it so nobody else will be tempted to put it on an engine. You will probably need some tail weight added for balancing the plane when you remove it as this is a heavy chunk of metal.

If you have $17 and want more power and even better fuel economy, tach your engine first and then put on a Tower's muffler. Look for something like 1000 more RPM. With these improvements, your engine will sip fuel like a 4 stroke and have a lot of power. It will never deadstick if you tune the low end right.

Ken6PPC

I concur with what blw wrote about using a hotter plug. My Evo that came in my Arrow was VERY unreliable until I tried an A3 plug in it. Since learning that, I have "fixed" three other Evo engines just by giving their owners an A3 to try. The difference is like night and day!

I haven't tried a four stroke plug, but I bet it would work too. (Especially since blw says it will.....)

Blw's advice about the counter-weight is spot-on too. I would NEVER put that hunk of junk on any engine! You do need to get an replacement prop driver though. http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...odID=EVO100219

I'd highly recommend that you switch over to a two blade prop, if you haven't already done so. Those three blade props will break if they contact a couple blades of tall grass!

As for fuel economy, while helping during training this past year, I personally timed the flight of a H9 Arrrow with the Evo Trainer Power System motor http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...ProdID=EVOE100 for over 23 minutes (obviously not WOT, but not real slow either) with only 11 oz. of 10% nitro. (I wouldn't recommend flying that long, unless you are VERY confident you can get it back to the landing strip in case of a deadstick.) I saw another one with a stuck throttle (wide open!), and it flew for over 17 minutes! When the throttle stuck wide open, the trainer just flew it around until the engine died, and then landed it safely, deadstick. (The servo arm came off....)

DALE PABAJO

DO YOU KNOW WHAT I TRIED AND ALSO WORKED WITH MY EVO TRAINER ENGINE,I SWITCHED THE STOCK CRANK SHAFT ON MY TRIANER ENGINE FOR THE .46 EVO ENGINE WICH THE STROKE IS JUST A HAIR LONGER BUT MAKES A HELL OF A DIFFERNCE WITH A TOWER MUFFLER. TACH. IT BEFORE YOU MAKE THE SWITCH AND REMOVE THE DEAD COUNTER WEIGHT AND YOU'LL SEE WHAT I MEAN.

blw

My Feedback: (3)

Dale,

Which trainer engine are you talking about, the .40 Alpha or the .455?

DALE PABAJO

THE .45 ALFA ENGINE THAT COMES WITH THE TRAINERS. http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...odID=EVO046210
THIS IS THE CRANK SHAFT. IF YOU LOOK AT THE SPEC. OF BOTH ENGINES THE EVO .46 NT HAS SLIGHTLY MORE STROKE THAN THE .45 BUT, ON THE OTHER HAND YOU HAVE A TAD MORE BORE ON THE .45. STICK A .46NT CRANK SHAFT IN A .45 ALFA TRAINER ENGINE = MORE POWER.IT'S A DIRECT FIT NO FILE NO DREMELING JUST SLIP OUT THE OLD AND PUT IN THE NEW, I PERSONALY THINK INSTEAD OF HAVEING A .45 OR A .46NT IT SHOULD BE A .47 AND SLAP ON A TOWER HOBBIES MUFFLER AND YOU SHOULD BE GETTING SOME SCREAMING RPM OUT OF IT.

skiman762

That should work well increase displacement and compression at the same time

blw

My Feedback: (3)

Dale,

That would be the .40 Alpha. The other training engine is the .455, further confused with the 'a' on the side of the top cooling fins.

Yes, you can swap crankshafts. However, the .40 crank is better balanced. You can also drop in a .46NT liner and piston in the .40. All of this would make it totally a .46NT as these three parts are the only difference in the two engines.

skiman762

The evolution trainer power system A is a .45 http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...ProdID=EVOE100
they also make a 40n t http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...rodID=EVOE0400

Didn't we go through this last year with the 40 alpha being an airplane with the trainer system A .45 http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...ProdID=HAN2475

DALE PABAJO

the .40 trainer engine is not really a .40 the displacement for that engine is .45,I had 3 of those engines two lost to crashes out in the tall weed's and I only have one left.

DALE PABAJO

YES YOU COULD DROP IN THE LINER BUT YOU WOULD ALSO HAVE TO CHANGE THE COOLING HEAD, BUT WHY CHANGE THE LINER IF THE .45 HAS A TAD MORE BORE ON IT THAN THE .46NT LINER? THAT'S WHY I SAY JUST CHANGE THE CRANK SHAFT AND THE MUFFLER INSTEAD OF HAVEING A .45 YOU'LL END UP WITH A .47 OR .48 WITH THAT COMBO, NOW WITH JUST THE STOCK MUFFLER ALONE YOU'LL STILL SEE THE DIFFERANCE.

skiman762

There is no .40 trainer power system it is called the ''Evolution Trainer Power System: A"

There's also an airplane a trainer called the "Alpha 40 Trainer, RTF" it has nothing to do with the engine that is on it

The confusion come when the 40 alpha "airplane" is confused with it's engine that is the .45 or .4.57 if you carry out another decimal ''Evolution Trainer Power System: A"

I have never seen a .40 displacement trainer engine

blw

My Feedback: (3)

skiman- There has been a lot of confusion over those two engines, and most of the reasons were the fault of Evolution and Horizon. The .455 was called a .40 at first, just like the .40 Alpha engine. They advertised the two as the Alpha and the .40 TPS. Later, after reviews of the .455, they did change the listing to the correct displacement. There is also a .61 TPS. It also comes with the flywheel. The Alpha has always been shown on trainers, but I can't remember if it comes with the flywheel weight.

Dale- The .40 Alpha and the .46NT share the same carb, crankcase, and cylinder head. The .46 just uses a thinner liner and larger piston for the bigger bore. The .46 crankshaft has the crank pin placed a bit more outside for the longer stroke. All of these parts are interchangeable between these two engines.

The .455 is a different engine.

DALE PABAJO

OK COOL,THERE BOTH DIFFERENT ENGINES BUT I HAVE BOTH,AND THE I CHANGED THE CRANK SHAFT FROM MY .46NT AND PUT IT IN MY .455 AND THERE WAS A DIFFERANCE IN POWER. AS SOON AS I GET UP A RUNNING I'LL TACH. IT AND GIVE YOU SOME NUMBERS. I,M JUST SAYING THAT IT CAN BE UPGRADED A LITTLE WITH JUST A CHANGE OF THE CRANK SHAFT AND THE TOWER HOBBIES MUFFLER.

skiman762

I think they dropped the 61PTS and now the Alpha 60 RTF comes with the 61NT with the 3 blade prop

spiral_72

I had a lot of the same problems with my Evo.61. I'm still working them out, but it runs much better than when I started.

Here's the link to my topic (the entire saga): http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_6558121/tm.htm

I called Tech support. They said Omega 15% and a four stroke plug like the Hanger "Super plug" of the F.

Before that I had tried an OS#8 with no? improvement. I have NOT tried the A3 mainly because the HS didn't carry the A3.

Notes: there's a rumor that some Evo engines were shipped missing an o-ring under the carb causing all kinds of problems. It's an easy check. Also it had been advised several times for me to pull the carb and clean it. Still waiting on those results. (bad weather)

skiman762

use a HOT plug and take the baffle out of the muffler that made a world of diff with my evo

blw

My Feedback: (3)

Dale,

I'll check the crank specs. A *lot* of people have gotten the Alpha and .455 confused in the past because of the way they were advertised. You are right about the Tower muffler on any of these 3 engines.

I've tried the Saito SS 4 stroke plug and it ran better, but both the .455 an .46NT are better with a hotter A3.

Evolution did ship out some .61s without the o ring under the carb. I think some of the 1.00s were missing them too.

skiman762

Ok I'm really messed up now, what is an " .40 Alpha" and what is the .455 you refer too I guess these are the two I'm missing are these older engines?

the ones below are the ones I know currently from the web site I look for the .40 alpha and .455 but couldn't find anything not even parts but that not a suprise with Horizons site

40nt http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...rodID=EVOE0400 has 40 on the head

46nt http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...rodID=EVOE0460 has 46 on the head

Evolution Trainer Power System: A http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...ProdID=EVOE100 This engine has an A on the head and the specs call it a .45 but the math puts it at .4577

DALE PABAJO

THE CRANK SHAFT CHANGE MAKES A HELL OF A DIFFERANCE. WHEN I FIRST TRIED IT OUT I HAD IT ON A SIG FAZER WITH A 12X 3.75 APC & THE TOWER MUFFLER WITH 15% OMEGA FUEL AND AN O.S # 8 PLUG AND BACK THEN IT WAS TACHING 13.000+ RPM. BUT SINCE THE FAZER WICH I GAVE A REST FOR NOW I NOTICED THE FRONT BEARING WITH SOME PLAY IN IT AND THE RUBBER COVERING OF THE BEARING HAD MELTED AWAY SOME SO NOW I'M REMOVING THE BEARING TO REPLACE IT WITH A NEW ONE. BUT OUT OF ALL MY ENGINES THE .455 IS MY AL TIME FAVORITE.

blw

My Feedback: (3)

Dale,

Glad you wrote that the .46NT crank works. Since I have both engines, you have me thinking about doing the same thing as the .46 doesn't have a home. Did the engine seem smooth?

skiman762- you got it right with the links. It was more confusing when people had to figure it out themselves when both were called .40s.

I also agree that my .455 is the best engine I own...for now. I have a couple that I haven't run yet like an ASP .40 and a Clarence Lee K&B .61.

DALE PABAJO

WELL LAST TIME I RAN THE ENGINE IT RAN SMOOTH, WITH AN UNBELIVABLE IDLE I COULD LEAVE IT IN THE PITS JUST IDLEING FOR A LONG WHILE ON GO WOT @ THAT MOMENT AND IT WOULDN'T EVEN SPUTER OR SHUT OFF NICE CLEAN TRANSITION. I CHANGED THE PISTON AND LINER A FEW MONTHS BACK,AND ALSO MADE A FEW MOD'S TO THE OUT SIDE OF THE LINER AND CLEANED OFF THE STAINED CRANK CASE AND RUSTED CRANK SHAFT.NOW LET SEE HOW IT RUN'S WITH THE MODIFIED LINER? HOPE IT WORK'S? I ALSO HAVE A K&B .40 W/ PERRY CARB. BUT WITH OUT THE MUFFLER IT SEEM'S TO HAVE SOME COMPRECION BUT IT FEEL'S KINDA WEAK. I WOULD REALLY LIKE TO RUN THE K&B SINCE IT'S A LITTLE DIFFERENT THAN ANYTHING I EVER OWNED. TRY THE .46NT CRANSHAFT IN YOU'R .455 YOU'LL LOVE IT