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Saito 125 engine bearing failure

Old 03-23-2008, 08:16 PM
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mofosheee
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Default RE: Saito 125 engine bearing failure

Thanks Bruce:

How long and how hard did you run the ceramics before the crash?

I think it is reasonable to expect that the bearings would not survive such an event. I have also replace a few cranks, but not that often. I usually go thru bearings before crankshafts. Come with the territory. Thank you for your input.
Old 03-23-2008, 09:34 PM
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Default RE: Saito 125 engine bearing failure



don't really recall how long i ran them, however, it was not long. I cannot say anything about life expectancy as they were not run all that long. they were in a saito 100, and an US 60. The ultra stick is just a fond memory now![&o] The Saito 100 they were in has a long history of problems. Mostly bearings. at the moment, it is down waiting for a new cam, lifters, ring and new bearings again. Last time i checked Horizon, some of the parts were on B.O., so engine is setting on shelf ... waiting. I have about reached the point of trashing it. Something has to be wrong for the bearings to keep going out. Perhaps some where along the line, I somehow managed to warp the crankcase?

Bruce
Old 03-23-2008, 09:36 PM
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aa2dd
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Default RE: Saito 125 engine bearing failure




ohh forgot to mention how hard they were run. Not hard. I rarely fly at full throttle, except when climbing out. I like to putz around low on the deck, and fly slow.

Bruce
Old 03-23-2008, 10:52 PM
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Default RE: Saito 125 engine bearing failure

ORIGINAL: aa2dd
Ceramic bearings are okay I guess, but if you dink the engine, chances are good that the bearings will be damaged. I replaced bearings in my Saito 100 with ceramic, and it ran just fine till I had a mishap with the ground! It was not a hard crash and did not do any damage to the plane to speak of, BUT, it trashed the bearings. the ceramic balls chipped, busted or what ever you wnat to call it. I figgered that i spent approx 90 bux for nothing but trouble.
Obviously you didn't buy your bearings from RC-Bearings.com. Pauls prices are (from memory) much more reasonable than that.

Personally I don't bother with ceramics for sport engines -- just plain old bearing-steel ones work fine and I haven't had to replace a set of Pauls yet, they seem to last much better than the factory originals.

Old 04-20-2008, 09:21 AM
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Default RE: Saito 125 engine bearing failure

Thanks all............the bearing replacement and rebuild went excellent. And the Airplane runs great. From this experience I learned upgrade to ceramics and use fuel with castor.
Old 04-20-2008, 02:04 PM
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Default RE: Saito 125 engine bearing failure


ORIGINAL: skrez

Hi,
How does one know when a bearing has one bad?
Frank

Since no one really addressed this question, I'll throw out my opinion. Last Fall, I was told by a flying buddy that the bearings in my Saito 100 sounded bad. I didn't know there was anything wrong. The engine started easily, had gobs of power and was as reliable as I anyone could want. After changing the bearings, however, I could hear a huge difference. Below 3,000 or 4,000 RPM, the predominant sound I now hear is the swishing of the big 16x4W APC prop and the sound of the valve train doing it's thing. It's a remarkable difference.

Before the new bearings, there was a pronounced rattling sound that got progressively worse as the throttle was advanced. It's hard to describe, but I'll know it again when and if I come across it again. The need for new bearings was also demonstrated by showing me the end play in the crank. Grabbing the tip of the prop and pulling/pushing it backwards and forwards yielded a lot of play and distinctive clicking noises as the crank moved around. With a little guidance (from an online buddy on another site), I was easily able to install new bearings from Paul at RC Bearings and now the engine is 100%. I'm almost looking forward to the next time I have to do repair work.

Old 04-20-2008, 03:48 PM
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Default RE: Saito 125 engine bearing failure

It is fun to work on engines. Sometimes, the bearings will squeal and whine loud.
Old 04-20-2008, 07:50 PM
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Default RE: Saito 125 engine bearing failure

I have bought many pair of bearings from Paul at RC Bearings. I use Pauls store exclusively now.
I like to use the stainless ones and have good service from them.

I have seen a lot of Saitos in the last few years have just as horrible of bearings as OS engines. Lets face it, these companies are buying poorly manufactured bearings, regardless of what company made them.

Castor helps the rust thing more than anything else, but a bearing that is going to fail is going to fail no matter what or how much oil you use.
Old 05-03-2008, 03:02 AM
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Default RE: Saito 125 engine bearing failure

The ceramic bearing replacement worked well in my Saito.

Question. So why doesn't Saito spend a little extra money and install "better bearings in their engines?

Where I live and fly, Saito is beginning to get a "bad rap"

Customer satisfaction and reputation is on the line.

Thanks all!
Old 05-03-2008, 07:29 AM
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Default RE: Saito 125 engine bearing failure


ORIGINAL: ****sheee

The ceramic bearing replacement worked well in my Saito.

Question. So why doesn't Saito spend a little extra money and install "better bearings in their engines?

Where I live and fly, Saito is beginning to get a "bad rap"

Customer satisfaction and reputation is on the line.

Thanks all!
I see far less Saito bearing failures than I do OS 4-stroke bearing failures. As for 4-strokes, I believe Saito has a lot more 4-stroke engines in the field than OS.
With Saito, the culprit seems to be some rust gathering on the bearings causing premature failure. With the OS, I see a lot of short term catastrophic failures, mostly with the ball cages coming apart.
Old 05-03-2008, 08:12 AM
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Default RE: Saito 125 engine bearing failure

Brian, I think people hear the cam followers rattle in the Saitos and panic thinking it is the bearings, I put a new jug on my 1991 1.50, I broke it tightening the carb too tight, but I left the stock bearings in, they are fine. They are still fine in my 1992 .80.
Old 05-04-2008, 08:25 AM
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Default RE: Saito 125 engine bearing failure


ORIGINAL: Hobbsy

Brian, I think people hear the cam followers rattle in the Saitos and panic thinking it is the bearings, I put a new jug on my 1991 1.50, I broke it tightening the carb too tight, but I left the stock bearings in, they are fine. They are still fine in my 1992 .80.
You're probably correct in that Dave. Saito's do have a bit more mechanical clatter than the OS/ clones do. Novice modelers tend to be alarmed at this but they can be rest assured it is fine as long as yourvalve lash is ste within specs. To the veteran, it is a much different clatter than the whirrr or growl of a bearing going bad.

I like to set my valves following the first gallon or so on any 4-stroke to about .0015", on saito's it quiets the valve train down a bit and on all 4-strokes it reduces the amount of lifter bounce when on the trailing ramp of the cam, and increases the "snappieness" of the low-midrange throttle response.
Old 09-17-2008, 02:34 PM
  #38  
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Default RE: Saito 125 engine bearing failure

I changed my bearings to ceramics from RC-Bearings.com in my 125.
Later, I crashed the hell out of it. It even bent the Tru-turn spinner adapter, but not the crank.
Because I am a fool, I paid 3x more for the bearings from BocaBearings. Immediately I noticed the difference. There is a LOT of axial end play when the engine is warm. When cold, there is no end play to speak of. I imagine the bearings do not fit as snugly as they should. There is no radial end play, but I get quite a bit of oil leaking out of the front bearing. I can see the residue inside the cowling.

I was a fool to buy bearings from anyone besides Paul. I've already rectified this and have some coming in the mail.

Boca bearings does not respond to my emails asking if this type of bearing behavior is normal. Repeated emails yield zero responses. *******s.
Old 09-17-2008, 06:25 PM
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Default RE: Saito 125 engine bearing failure



As if paying 3 times the cost is not insult to injury, how about the fact that all of the bearings come from China.
Old 09-17-2008, 07:45 PM
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Default RE: Saito 125 engine bearing failure

Low quality bearings at 3x the price of good bearings and low quality customer service to boot. What a sham.
Old 09-17-2008, 07:52 PM
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Default RE: Saito 125 engine bearing failure


ORIGINAL: ****sheee
As if paying 3 times the cost is not insult to injury, how about the fact that all of the bearings come from China.
Paul gets his bearings from China also.
Old 09-17-2008, 11:04 PM
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Default RE: Saito 125 engine bearing failure

....Boca bearings are the same quality as the rest of the bearings on this Planet. It seems to me you have some kind of false flag issue that you want to push on everyone.

I have been using nothing but Boca bearings since I moved to my present location 17 years ago. I used to be able to get bearings locally when I lived in Los Angeles.

I don't believe your story....I know better. [:@]

FBD.
Old 09-17-2008, 11:14 PM
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Default RE: Saito 125 engine bearing failure


ORIGINAL: Flyboy Dave

....Boca bearings are the same quality as the rest of the bearings on this Planet. It seems to me you have some kind of false flag issue that you want to push on everyone.
Never underestimate the loyalty of a happy customer.

Paul goes out of his way to provide a good product at tremendous price and he backs it up with first-rate service.

By comparison, Bocca have a good product but rely far too heavily (IMHO) on establishing a strong brand-awareness in preference to offering competitive pricing and good customer support.

I know where I buy my bearings I go for value and service *every* time. The pretty logo-emblazoned plastic bags that Boca's bearings come in don't seem to help my wallet or my engine's performance one little bit.

But it's a free world and to each their own.

Old 09-17-2008, 11:18 PM
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Default RE: Saito 125 engine bearing failure

I did the math in an earlier thread and for ceramic hybrid bearings, when you factor in the free shipping that Boca had at the time (maybe still does), the price was close. Boca has a less expensive ceramic/ss ball hybrid that is about the same as RC_Bearing's ceramic hybrid with ss balls.
Old 09-17-2008, 11:51 PM
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Default RE: Saito 125 engine bearing failure

....quite frankly, I don't care where anyone gets their bearings, and I don't care how
much they pay for them. I have been happy with the quality and price of Boca Bearings
for almost two decades.

I prefer to support American companies with my money, but that's just me.

I don't believe Mike Early's story about the "so called"...

Low quality bearings at 3x the price of good bearings and low quality customer service to boot.
What a sham.
Mike....you need to tell this story to someone else....so do you, XJet....I know better.

FBD.
Old 09-18-2008, 12:26 AM
  #46  
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Default RE: Saito 125 engine bearing failure

Paul of rc bearings has my vote on ceramics. Have them on my YS110.One of them had a heads down crash recently- forgot to fix the wing bolts on my Yak-ouch!.Engine survived with bearings intact.I reckon with normal steel bearings, it would have necessitated a change.
In the process of replacing all my 5 saito125s with ceramics. I find corrosion a problem in my setups somehow.
Old 09-18-2008, 12:45 AM
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Default RE: Saito 125 engine bearing failure

ORIGINAL: Flyboy Dave
I prefer to support American companies with my money, but that's just me.
And RC-Bearings isn't US-based????? Funny, all the stuff he sends me has a US-postmark on it.

Mike....you need to tell this story to someone else....so do you, XJet....I know better.
Sorry but you seem to be the one with a problem here FBD.

You'll find a *lot* more people with good things to say about rc-bearings than Bocca.

I don't know if Bocca are your buddies but when it comes to value-for-money and customer support, RC-Bearings are way out ahead, by a country mile.

Since you don't even seem to know that RC-Bearings is a US-based company I can't really attribute too much veracity to your "I know better" claim.

Old 09-18-2008, 01:07 AM
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Default RE: Saito 125 engine bearing failure

....I have my opinions, and my rebuilt engines to back it up, XJet....

I was under the assumption the R/C bearings was in the UK....
__________________________________________________ ________________

You can contact us by the contact link under Information to the left or by phone:

UK 07807 325177 5:00-10:00pm UK time.
__________________________________________________ _________________

I doesn't really matter where they are. To say that...

Low quality bearings at 3x the price of good bearings and low quality customer service to boot. What a sham.
..."Boca's bearings are low quality, and 3 times the price of good bearings"....is bullpucky.

XJet: Sorry but you seem to be the one with a problem here FBD.
I don't have a problem XJet, and neither does Boca Bearings. I'll stick to my origial statement....

....quite frankly, I don't care where anyone gets their bearings, and I don't care how
much they pay for them. I have been happy with the quality and price of Boca Bearings
for almost two decades.
Is that a problem, XJet ?

FBD.



Old 09-18-2008, 01:59 AM
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Flyboy Dave
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Default RE: Saito 125 engine bearing failure



Welcome to RC-Bearings.com, your best source for low cost, high quality silicon nitride hybrid ceramic
and standard steel bearings.

http://www.rc-bearings.com/catalog/

OS 61 SF/FSR
[os61fx]

http://www.rc-bearings.com/catalog/p...2274e04d50b6f/

The R/Cbearings are the cheapest that money can buy.....plain steel everywhere....no chrome.
They are $5.97 for the set.

The Boca bearings are more money, but they have:

Econo RC Engine Bearing Kit. Our Economy line of RC Engine bearings are intended to be the most
affordable way to replace stock bearings. These bearings have chrome steel races, balls, retainers
and shields. The ENK-002 set is $11.88 for the chrome set....(same engine).

I can guarantee you guys one thing....I won't take the time to rebuild an engine....and put in a
cheap set of six dollar.... ready to rust plain steel bearings, when the better quality chrome bearings
are available on the market. You can bet on that.

Six bucks for a set of bearings ? I wouldn't put those in a roller skate.

Howz' that for veracity ??? [sm=red_smile.gif]

FBD.





Old 09-18-2008, 03:52 AM
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XJet
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Default RE: Saito 125 engine bearing failure


ORIGINAL: Flyboy Dave
Welcome to RC-Bearings.com, your best source for low cost, high quality silicon nitride hybrid ceramic
and standard steel bearings.

http://www.rc-bearings.com/catalog/

OS 61 SF/FSR
[os61fx]

http://www.rc-bearings.com/catalog/p...2274e04d50b6f/

The R/Cbearings are the cheapest that money can buy.....plain steel everywhere....no chrome.
They are $5.97 for the set.
Now I may be wrong (I've only been working with model engines for 45 years and I know I don't know everything) but I believe you'll find that RC-Bearings "standard steel bearings" have races/balls that are made from bearing-steel. Note that regular bearing-steel actually has 1.3-1.6% chrome in it. Your claim "no chrome" is incorrect and based on ignorance.

Do not confuse bearing (chrome) steel with stainless. Stainless bearings have ten times more chrome and are somewhat more resistant to corrosion but wear more quickly because stainless is *softer* than bearing-steel.

When I replace bearings in my engines, I actually prefer to go for ("plain") bearing-steel versions because, so long as you're using an oil package that contains a little castor to protect against rust, they actually last noticeably longer than stainless ones and represent a better value-point.

If you don't use a particularly good oil package (from a corrosion perspective) or don't bother with ARO and use your engines relatively infrequently then stainless may be a better option but for the vast majority of folks, bearing steel is by far and away the best value.

The Boca bearings are more money, but they have:

Econo RC Engine Bearing Kit. Our Economy line of RC Engine bearings are intended to be the most
affordable way to replace stock bearings. These bearings have chrome steel races, balls, retainers
and shields. The ENK-002 set is $11.88 for the chrome set....(same engine).
ROTFL. Do you realize that your "econo bearings" are plain chrome bearing steel *NOT* stainless??? Do you realize that you're paying almost twice as much for bearings that are actually inferior (for model-engine use) to those you get from RC-bearings for just $5.95? In fact, they're inferior to the RC-Bearings units because they have metal retainers that can (and on occasion actually do) fail catastrophically causing fatal engine damage. Those "cheap" $5.95 bearings you scoff at from RC-bearings have the same Polymite Plastic retainers as Bocca's "High Speed/High Heat Series" which actually cost around $35 a set!!!

I can guarantee you guys one thing....I won't take the time to rebuild an engine....and put in a
cheap set of six dollar.... ready to rust plain steel bearings, when the better quality chrome bearings
are available on the market. You can bet on that.
There is no such thing as "plain steel" bearings, they all have some chrome in them and you've been duped by Bocca's spin. The bearing steel in the econoline is exactly the same low-chrome type as in the bearings from RC-Bearings. If you buy the *equivalent* to one of RC-Bearings standard bearing-steel sets ($5.95) you will pay $34.95 from Bocca).

Boy, have you ever been ripped!

In fact, if you paid just an extra $3 a set at RC-bearings, you could get *real* stainless sets that *would* be more resistant to corrosion that the units you're currently buying from Bocca and you'd still be saving $2.

Clearly you've never even *tried* the bearings that RC-Bearings sell and you are spreading misinformation based on your own ignorance here FBD.

Six bucks for a set of bearings ? I wouldn't put those in a roller skate.
Hey, if you want to pay twice as much money for bearings with the same low-chrome metalurgy and an inferior metal retainer then that's your right but please don't try to tell other people that they should do the same just because you don't understand the difference between chrome/bearing-steel and stainless steel and clearly don't appreciate the value of using polymer retainers in bearings used for model-engine applications.

Howz' that for veracity ??? [sm=red_smile.gif]
FBD.
Actually, I think you should be feeling a little embarrassed right now, you've just proven that you've made some rather foolish assumptions and you have been well and truly paying through the nose for very "average" bearings.

To summarize:

Bearing-steel sets with inferior metal retainers from Bocca are (on average) around $12 a set.

Bocca's bearing-steel units with polymer retainers are (on average) about $35 a set.

The same metalurgy and polymer retainers from RC-Bearings cost around $6 per set.

Stainless bearings from RC-bearings cost about $3 extra (making them around $9 per set).

This means you can get a vastly *superior* bearing set (stainless with polymer retainer) from RC-Bearings for little more than a quarter the price of the Bocca equivalent. Gosh, Mike's figure of "three times more expensive" may have actually been somewhat conservative.

I trust you'll be tendering an apology to Mike.



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