Long engine ground running.
03-21-2008, 01:48 PM
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Long engine ground running.
Hello, I just broke-in my ST G2300 MKII, which uses a Slimline inverted pitts muffler; I used the plug that comes with the engine and Morgan fuel 5% nitro and after 3 times 420cc tank, and as recommended on the engine manual, a 18x8 prop. from Masterairscrew classic series, all was o.k. Then I changed the spakplug for a O.S. A3 Glow Plug Hot, and put a 16x8 prop. from Masterairscrew classic series and then a Morgan fuel 15% nitro, and the engine runs well at even idle and high power settings, but after a several minutes the engine stops, so I could notice some smoke coming out around the engine as well the muffler, that clear gray/white smoke like boiling water.
I want to ask if that could be as a result of overheating, because the was no ram air and the engine was in a satatic position, and without the cowl.Also, I installed a Great Planes Easy Fueller Valve Glow, so I do not know if that valve could give some problems, too.I read some post regarding that type of fueling valves that could give some problems.
Also, If an engine is in static running at high power setting, it should run as long as fuel last, or it could get overheated and then stops.
Thanks, Isaias G.
I want to ask if that could be as a result of overheating, because the was no ram air and the engine was in a satatic position, and without the cowl.Also, I installed a Great Planes Easy Fueller Valve Glow, so I do not know if that valve could give some problems, too.I read some post regarding that type of fueling valves that could give some problems.
Also, If an engine is in static running at high power setting, it should run as long as fuel last, or it could get overheated and then stops.
Thanks, Isaias G.
03-21-2008, 02:00 PM
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RE: Long engine ground running.
Changing so many things at once
Fuel
Plug
Prop
actually makes it harder to diagnose the cause of the overheating.
But,it probably was running too lean.
All of my engines are .91 or smaller but they will run through a full tank, at wide open throttle, without overheating and they do not die until they're out of fuel.
Fuel
Plug
Prop
actually makes it harder to diagnose the cause of the overheating.
But,it probably was running too lean.
All of my engines are .91 or smaller but they will run through a full tank, at wide open throttle, without overheating and they do not die until they're out of fuel.
03-21-2008, 03:20 PM
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RE: Long engine ground running.
A couple of things to look at first.
1. 15% is more nitro than the engine likes.
2. The Pitts style muffler does not provide as much pressure to tank as the original muffler.
I have the same engine. I broke it in on 5% fuel, stock muffler, then mounted in the plane with a pitts muffler. Just for kicks, I tried running 15% nitro and found I could not possibly get the needle "too rich", no matter how many turns out. Went back to 5% and found happiness again. With more experimentation, I tried 10% with good results, but still not getting a really good rich setting. I have since plugged one of the two exhaust tubes on the muffler, but I have not had a chance to run it, yet.
So, on my score card, I know 5% Omega is good, 10% Omega gives a little bit more RPM, nothing dramatic(can't say it is better overall than 5% at this point), 15% is not good, and the twin pipe pitts muffler needs improvement as to tank pressure.
Are we having fun, yet?
1. 15% is more nitro than the engine likes.
2. The Pitts style muffler does not provide as much pressure to tank as the original muffler.
I have the same engine. I broke it in on 5% fuel, stock muffler, then mounted in the plane with a pitts muffler. Just for kicks, I tried running 15% nitro and found I could not possibly get the needle "too rich", no matter how many turns out. Went back to 5% and found happiness again. With more experimentation, I tried 10% with good results, but still not getting a really good rich setting. I have since plugged one of the two exhaust tubes on the muffler, but I have not had a chance to run it, yet.
So, on my score card, I know 5% Omega is good, 10% Omega gives a little bit more RPM, nothing dramatic(can't say it is better overall than 5% at this point), 15% is not good, and the twin pipe pitts muffler needs improvement as to tank pressure.
Are we having fun, yet?
03-21-2008, 04:21 PM
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RE: Long engine ground running.
Marco
The 2300 is not "big tigre" The 2000, 2500,3000 and 3250 are the big tigres and all built on the same block. The 4500 is big and on a bigger block. The 2300 is a small block engine and 18 % oil or more is recommended.
The 2300 is not "big tigre" The 2000, 2500,3000 and 3250 are the big tigres and all built on the same block. The 4500 is big and on a bigger block. The 2300 is a small block engine and 18 % oil or more is recommended.
03-21-2008, 04:29 PM
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RE: Long engine ground running.
Thanks for your posts. Can anybody lead me to a chart regarding oil contents, % of nitro and etc. for any different types of fuel.Or even any post here regarding fuel types.According to the engine manual, the engine requires a minimum of 18%-20% oil either castor oil or synthetic. I was looking at the fuel label that I use but there is no much information of fuel"ingredients", I tried morgan fuel web page but it is under construction.
Isaias G.
Isaias G.
03-21-2008, 05:06 PM
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RE: Long engine ground running.
ORIGINAL: lechuza
Thanks for your posts. Can anybody lead me to a chart regarding oil contents, % of nitro and etc. for any different types of fuel.Or even any post here regarding fuel types.According to the engine manual, the engine requires a minimum of 18%-20% oil either castor oil or synthetic. I was looking at the fuel label that I use but there is no much information of fuel"ingredients", I tried morgan fuel web page but it is under construction.
Isaias G.
Thanks for your posts. Can anybody lead me to a chart regarding oil contents, % of nitro and etc. for any different types of fuel.Or even any post here regarding fuel types.According to the engine manual, the engine requires a minimum of 18%-20% oil either castor oil or synthetic. I was looking at the fuel label that I use but there is no much information of fuel"ingredients", I tried morgan fuel web page but it is under construction.
Isaias G.
All advice to lower the nitro content is good - ST's in general are set up for lower nitro. 5% is plenty.
03-21-2008, 07:04 PM
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RE: Long engine ground running.
Even though the 2300 manual says 15% nitro is ok, both my Italian 2300 and chinese 2300 will pick a fight with me if I try to run them on 15% nitro.
Denis
Denis
03-21-2008, 07:49 PM
#10
RE: Long engine ground running.
.....I've never run a Super Tiger on anything but 15% nitro fuel. All engines without
needle bearing rods need plenty of oil....that includes Super Tigers. 18% oil in the
fuel is good.
I have never operated an engine with a Pitts style muffler. Engine manufactures go to
a lot of trouble to furnish a muffler that compliments the way the engine runs.
This is not done by accident.
Ringed engines thrive on castor oil in the blend, or straight castor.
15% nitro is standard fare in the States. Heli's run on 20 and 30% nitro. RC cars and
trucks run on 30% and more.
FBD.
needle bearing rods need plenty of oil....that includes Super Tigers. 18% oil in the
fuel is good.
I have never operated an engine with a Pitts style muffler. Engine manufactures go to
a lot of trouble to furnish a muffler that compliments the way the engine runs.
This is not done by accident.
Ringed engines thrive on castor oil in the blend, or straight castor.
15% nitro is standard fare in the States. Heli's run on 20 and 30% nitro. RC cars and
trucks run on 30% and more.
FBD.
03-21-2008, 08:00 PM
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RE: Long engine ground running.
I ran my 2300 on straight 80/20 fuel, no nitro at all
too much nitro, and the spraybar cannot deliver the extra fuel demand any more, which results in lean runs.
too much nitro, and the spraybar cannot deliver the extra fuel demand any more, which results in lean runs.
03-22-2008, 12:36 AM
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RE: Long engine ground running.
Here in Panama are available from 5% to 30% nitro fuel.I have a friend who owns a ST .90 and he runs it with 15% nitro, with the standard muffler that comes with the engine.I had the same engine on my CMP Cessna 182, 80" but with a bisson pitts mufler and never ran well with 15% nitro fuel, I posted about this some wekks ago. I follow some recomendations about changing the fuel from 5% to 10%, I tried 5% and the engine now works o.k.
It is possible that the muffler could make a difference and /or affect the engine behavior regarding the fuel being used?
Isaias G.
It is possible that the muffler could make a difference and /or affect the engine behavior regarding the fuel being used?
Isaias G.
03-22-2008, 02:33 AM
#13
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RE: Long engine ground running.
Isaias,
The glow-plug you are using (OS A3) is the hottest plug around! It is not suitable for this engine!
The original ST plug your engine came with is a medium-heat plug and you must only use a plug of this heat range.
This alone can cause your engine to overheat!
While the original ST plug is not known for its superior quality, the OS A3 is not a suitable replacement for it!
Please read [link=http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXFV80&P=ML]the Tower page for this engine[/link].
It specifically tells you to use a medium plug!
Despite 15% nitro being within the recommended range, don't use it!
Read what PĂ© Reivers wrote. It is, in addition, a waste of your money and a terrible waste of fuel (the more nitro - the more fuel is used per time period), with a disappointing effect on actual power and on running characteristics.
The tank would be emptied out much faster than you expect...
Nearly all Pitts style mufflers provide insufficient fuel pressure and need to be modified in a 'power-robbing' way, to get this problem solved. The only in-cowl alternative I know of, is the TurboJett™ ($$$$) scroll down [link=http://www.jettengineering.com/accy/turbo.html]here[/link] to see a photo of your engine with it installed...
Ram-air has absolutely no effect, at the speeds air is blown back by the prop.
And... a glow-plug is not a spark-plug...
The glow-plug you are using (OS A3) is the hottest plug around! It is not suitable for this engine!
The original ST plug your engine came with is a medium-heat plug and you must only use a plug of this heat range.
This alone can cause your engine to overheat!
While the original ST plug is not known for its superior quality, the OS A3 is not a suitable replacement for it!
Please read [link=http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXFV80&P=ML]the Tower page for this engine[/link].
It specifically tells you to use a medium plug!
Despite 15% nitro being within the recommended range, don't use it!
Read what PĂ© Reivers wrote. It is, in addition, a waste of your money and a terrible waste of fuel (the more nitro - the more fuel is used per time period), with a disappointing effect on actual power and on running characteristics.
The tank would be emptied out much faster than you expect...
Nearly all Pitts style mufflers provide insufficient fuel pressure and need to be modified in a 'power-robbing' way, to get this problem solved. The only in-cowl alternative I know of, is the TurboJett™ ($$$$) scroll down [link=http://www.jettengineering.com/accy/turbo.html]here[/link] to see a photo of your engine with it installed...
Ram-air has absolutely no effect, at the speeds air is blown back by the prop.
And... a glow-plug is not a spark-plug...
03-22-2008, 08:30 AM
#14
RE: Long engine ground running.
ORIGINAL: lechuza
Hello, I just broke-in my ST G2300 MKII, which uses a Slimline inverted pitts muffler; I used the plug that comes with the engine and Morgan fuel 5% nitro and after 3 times 420cc tank, and as recommended on the engine manual, a 18x8 prop. from Masterairscrew classic series, all was o.k. Then I changed the spakplug for a O.S. A3 Glow Plug Hot, and put a 16x8 prop. from Masterairscrew classic series and then a Morgan fuel 15% nitro, and the engine runs well at even idle and high power settings, but after a several minutes the engine stops, so I could notice some smoke coming out around the engine as well the muffler, that clear gray/white smoke like boiling water.
I want to ask if that could be as a result of overheating, because the was no ram air and the engine was in a satatic position, and without the cowl.Also, I installed a Great Planes Easy Fueller Valve Glow, so I do not know if that valve could give some problems, too.I read some post regarding that type of fueling valves that could give some problems.
Also, If an engine is in static running at high power setting, it should run as long as fuel last, or it could get overheated and then stops.
Thanks, Isaias G.
Hello, I just broke-in my ST G2300 MKII, which uses a Slimline inverted pitts muffler; I used the plug that comes with the engine and Morgan fuel 5% nitro and after 3 times 420cc tank, and as recommended on the engine manual, a 18x8 prop. from Masterairscrew classic series, all was o.k. Then I changed the spakplug for a O.S. A3 Glow Plug Hot, and put a 16x8 prop. from Masterairscrew classic series and then a Morgan fuel 15% nitro, and the engine runs well at even idle and high power settings, but after a several minutes the engine stops, so I could notice some smoke coming out around the engine as well the muffler, that clear gray/white smoke like boiling water.
I want to ask if that could be as a result of overheating, because the was no ram air and the engine was in a satatic position, and without the cowl.Also, I installed a Great Planes Easy Fueller Valve Glow, so I do not know if that valve could give some problems, too.I read some post regarding that type of fueling valves that could give some problems.
Also, If an engine is in static running at high power setting, it should run as long as fuel last, or it could get overheated and then stops.
Thanks, Isaias G.
You said your using an inverted muffler, so I am assuming the engine is inverted. I have a couple of these. if the engine is inverted, did you lower the fuel tank?
03-22-2008, 10:37 AM
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RE: Long engine ground running.
I use 15% nitro and 20% oil mix, OS F plug, bisson muffler with both pipes restricted, 16x6 APC pattern prop. 91-9200 RPM's the engine runs flawess with good needle response.
If your seeing any smoke other than what is coming from the muffler end your running to hot for sure . Adjust the needle open to see if you can get a slobery 4 stroke mode or close, if not you may not have enough tank pressure and will need to restrict the muffler pipes. Other options are to use a regulator or a pump to achive this. You can plug one exit pipe to test this. But I get better results in restricting both pipes. I found on my engine the RPM"s wasn't as good with just one pipe plugged.
With the tank on the center of the spray bar and good fuel pressure going to the carb I have not yet had to go to a regulator or a pump on any of my 2 stroke engines that wasn't made with it.
As far as not useing this plug or that fuel, I myself try several of each untill I find what works for me. I'm told I am way to picky about how I tune my engines, Maybe so, but I would rather spend some time getting one just right rather than to loose a plane over being in a hurry to fly.
If your seeing any smoke other than what is coming from the muffler end your running to hot for sure . Adjust the needle open to see if you can get a slobery 4 stroke mode or close, if not you may not have enough tank pressure and will need to restrict the muffler pipes. Other options are to use a regulator or a pump to achive this. You can plug one exit pipe to test this. But I get better results in restricting both pipes. I found on my engine the RPM"s wasn't as good with just one pipe plugged.
With the tank on the center of the spray bar and good fuel pressure going to the carb I have not yet had to go to a regulator or a pump on any of my 2 stroke engines that wasn't made with it.
As far as not useing this plug or that fuel, I myself try several of each untill I find what works for me. I'm told I am way to picky about how I tune my engines, Maybe so, but I would rather spend some time getting one just right rather than to loose a plane over being in a hurry to fly.
03-22-2008, 11:09 AM
#16
RE: Long engine ground running.
I'm not picky at all as i simply do it the right way and i have never lost and engine or plane due to tuning. Its so easy "a cave man can do it." By getting it right the first time, when a problem arises, tuning is last on my list and usually discover the problem before i even fool with tuning.m
By getting it right the first time, when a problem arises, tuning is last on my list and usually discover the problem before i even fool with tuning.m
03-22-2008, 11:10 AM
#17
RE: Long engine ground running.
ORIGINAL: pe reivers
I ran my 2300 on straight 80/20 fuel, no nitro at all too much nitro, and the spraybar
cannot deliver the extra fuel demand any more, which results in lean runs.
I ran my 2300 on straight 80/20 fuel, no nitro at all too much nitro, and the spraybar
cannot deliver the extra fuel demand any more, which results in lean runs.
It is as thin as water. It is not possible to change the viscosity (thicken) of methanol fuel
by adding any amount of nitro....that would effect the ability of that mix to pass through
the carb spraybar is a normal, proper manner.
Sorry, it ain't gonna happen. I have never seen a Super Tiger engine that was the
European variety that was designed to run on zero or 5% nitro only. The manual for the
Tigers states that up to 15% nitro is recommended. This is standard fare for (most) engines
sold in the U.S.....15% nitro.
Will they run on no, or low nitro. Probably so, but this does not mean they will not run
perfectly on the recommended 15%% nitro mix.
The notion that more nitro will render the fuel unusable is not plausible, sorry.
FBD.
03-22-2008, 11:40 AM
#18
RE: Long engine ground running.
ORIGINAL: lechuza
Thanks for your posts. Can anybody lead me to a chart regarding oil contents, % of nitro and etc. for any different types of fuel.Or even any post here regarding fuel types.According to the engine manual, the engine requires a minimum of 18%-20% oil either castor oil or synthetic. I was looking at the fuel label that I use but there is no much information of fuel"ingredients", I tried morgan fuel web page but it is under construction.
Isaias G.
Thanks for your posts. Can anybody lead me to a chart regarding oil contents, % of nitro and etc. for any different types of fuel.Or even any post here regarding fuel types.According to the engine manual, the engine requires a minimum of 18%-20% oil either castor oil or synthetic. I was looking at the fuel label that I use but there is no much information of fuel"ingredients", I tried morgan fuel web page but it is under construction.
Isaias G.
03-22-2008, 12:04 PM
#19
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RE: Long engine ground running.
ORIGINAL: Flyboy Dave
PĂ©....I must disagree with your statement. Have you ever used straight nitromethane?
It is as thin as water. It is not possible to change the viscosity (thicken) of methanol fuel
by adding any amount of nitro....that would effect the ability of that mix to pass through
the carb spraybar is a normal, proper manner.
ORIGINAL: pe reivers
I ran my 2300 on straight 80/20 fuel, no nitro at all too much nitro, and the spraybar
cannot deliver the extra fuel demand any more, which results in lean runs.
I ran my 2300 on straight 80/20 fuel, no nitro at all too much nitro, and the spraybar
cannot deliver the extra fuel demand any more, which results in lean runs.
It is as thin as water. It is not possible to change the viscosity (thicken) of methanol fuel
by adding any amount of nitro....that would effect the ability of that mix to pass through
the carb spraybar is a normal, proper manner.
I believe what PĂ© was implying was NOT that nitro is thicker (i.e. more viscous) than methanol...
It is the sheer increase in fuel flow, required by the much lower stoichiometric ratio range of nitro, that could exceed what the spray-bar and its orifices will allow...
The faster the flow - the greater the restriction...
03-22-2008, 02:00 PM
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RE: Long engine ground running.
All I know, is that I've got two 2300s that run on 15% nitro (Magnum fuels) and turn a 17X8 and an 18X8 prop, respectively. Happy with both and they're happy with me right now. Both have the same Bisson Pitts style muffler and the engines are mounted on their sides. Kept the fuel lines short as possible, used medium sized line and didn't have to cut, modify, shorten, lengthen or render useless either of the exhaust ports. They both run fine on Type F plugs with no OS carbs or pumps, only careful tuning. Now, if any of you start hangin' around my engines, givin' them any ideas that they've got sumtin' to complain about, we're just gonna have to have a little talk! [>:]
03-22-2008, 11:34 PM
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RE: Long engine ground running.
Hello, I just want to know while looking at this site about the Fourmost auto plug one-way valve(white/red colors).This valve can be used specifically on airplanes in order to prevent overfilling and/or flooding the inverted engine installed in my Giant Supersporster while fueling?; anyway, post related to this valve do not mention at all if is suitable for airplanes, but mention a good and positive pressure from the muffler to the fuel tank; It will help to increase muffler pressure from my slimline inverted muffler installed in the ST2300 to fuel tank?, also, answering one question about fuel tank repositioning, i do not think it can be done because of the fuselage construction and space/way designed to locate the fuel tank.Also, mention other brands of one-way valves like perry or sullivan.
What do you think about it?
Thanks, Isaias G.
What do you think about it?
Thanks, Isaias G.
03-23-2008, 12:24 AM
#24
RE: Long engine ground running.
DarZeelon: It is the sheer increase in fuel flow, required by the much lower stoichiometric
ratio range of nitro, that could exceed what the spray-bar and its orifices will allow...
ratio range of nitro, that could exceed what the spray-bar and its orifices will allow...
nitro content from zero....to 15% (normal nitro in the U.S.) where the "sheer increase in fuel flow"
would excede the capability of the carburetor in the Super Tiger engine.
No way.....that won't happen either....sorry.
FBD.
03-23-2008, 12:53 AM
#25
RE: Long engine ground running.
this thread is too technical for me, but because i have had a few beers and pretty happy right now, pulling a late nighter smoking a brisket 
but a super tigre, and all the other glow engines i have ever used, i can tell the difference in performance from fai fuel, to 5,10 15 and 20% nitro......after 20% nitro i cant tell because ive never use3d it.....maybe its all in my head....but i love 15% CP synthetic(green) for all my 2/4 stroke engines.
edward
but a super tigre, and all the other glow engines i have ever used, i can tell the difference in performance from fai fuel, to 5,10 15 and 20% nitro......after 20% nitro i cant tell because ive never use3d it.....maybe its all in my head....but i love 15% CP synthetic(green) for all my 2/4 stroke engines. edward