Dr. Wine

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After many years of flying my GP Cub with a Magnum .61 FS, it's time to upgrade to a twin. I was set on the Saito 90TS until discussing it with the owner of a local hobby shop. He told me this engine is based on the .45 single that was the worst engine Saito made. He then said I should go for the 100 twin, much better engine. He had neither of these in his shop and never owned them. The 100 is $100 cheaper than the 90, which is not an issue, however the 90 would have a scale appearance. The reason for upgrading is for scale appearance and to take all that lead out of the nose. Is the 90TS twin really a dog?

Anyone out there with first hand knowledge with these two engines?

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

No the 90TS is not a dog and there are no parts common with the old Saito 45MK II or the FA45S

The 90TS was originally intended for a 40 size Cub on floats. The 60TS was intended for the H9 Cub on wheels

The 100T has a little more power and weighs less and is a little cheaper. The 100T has many parts common with the Saito FA50

Dr. Wine

My Feedback: (2)

Thanks for the info. Have you owned any of these?

scott17

I have a 90TS and have flown it a bunch on a 60 sized scratch built that sorta resembles a Kloud King. It swings a 14-6 Evolution prop at about 8400 if I remember correctly and runs like a Swiss watch! I use a Sullivan twin remote headlock and a standard McDaniels Ni-Starter to start it and it has never even acted like it needs onboard glow. I run a Keleo Creations exhaust pipe on it just because it looks nicer than the stock flex pipes, but functionally they are about the same. Being a Boxer type twin with seperate crankpins makes it exceptionally smooth at all speeds. It will hand start very easily and sounds really cool. I don't even run muffler pressure and it never misses a lick. I would highly recommend this engine and can't see why anyone would say it was a bad engine. It would be perfect in a Cub!

mike109

I have recently bought a Saito 90TS. I also looked at the 100 but decided on the 90 as it is a more modern design and looks better in a Cub. I initially looked for a 60 T but none was available.

I ran the 90 initially in a Sig Kadet Senior to get it run in and to get used to it. It hauled the Kadet around at least as well as the FA65 it replaced temporarily.

It is now in the Goldberg Anniversary Cub and has been flown several times. I have had no problems with it. It does not drop cylinders, it starts very easily (by hand and with starter) and was easy to tune though I still have the low speed needle on the rich side and the high speed a little rich too. It flies the Cub mostly on about half throttle.

The only "problem" is the positioning of the exhausts on the engine which makes getting a scale appearance a bit of a job. At the moment I am still using the supplied flex system but I have tethered the ends of the pipes on the fuse. Not very scale, but it works.

I have another similar model. Over the years it has had an OS 40 Supass (a bit gutless but probably very scale), an OS 70 Surpass (total overkill), and an ASP 61 (a good compromise). It has just received an OS 52 Surpass but I have not flown it yet with this engine. The 90TS gives a bit more power than the ASP 61 but not a lot.

I use fuel with 5%castor, 15% synthetic, 10% nitro and the rest methanol.

Your shop friend may be remembering the early FA-45 with the low lift cam. They run really smoothly but are rather powerless. I had a later FA-45GK which was a very different and far more powerful beast. It is now over 15 years old and still going strong with a young friend.

The picture below shows the new Cub in Australian WWII colours with the 90TS providing the power.

scott17

Pics ;

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

I have them all

rainedave

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Are they all alternate firing? I thought I read somewhere that one of them is a Boxer. If so, does it have less vibration?

David

mike109

The 90TS is a boxer and is very smooth. Not sure about the 100 but I think it is not a boxer and has a shared crank pin.

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

The 100T fires sorta like a Harley. It is sort a put put space put put space The pistons are on one crank throw so both are to the left or both are to the right. When one is at top dead center the other is at bottom dead center

The 90TS is alternate firing left right left right but the pistons both go out at the same time and both go in at the same time. Both are at top dead center at the same time

Hobbsy

My Feedback: (102)

Doc, your LHS guy full of the proberbial "stuff", the .45 is a fine engine. I have a 90TS and it is easily within 100 or less rpm as strong as the .91. While it does have .45 cu. in. cylinders they are not remotely like the FA .45 cylinders. I do not have a 1.00 twin but have its bigger brother the 1.30, very smooth and about like a 1.20 for power.
Picture #1 is the FA .45 cylinder, #2 is the TS 90 and #3 is the TS 90 turning a Bolly 13.5x6.

Dr. Wine

My Feedback: (2)

All right guys and girls, I'll buy the 90. Thanks for all the help. After mounting it, I'll post some pictures. By the way, nothing sounds like the bad engineering of a Harley. I ride a BMW (Bavarian Motor Works) boxer. Hard to beat a Beemer. Maybe a Guzzi, or Duc.

Thanks again, and remember "if a crash is inevitable, lower the transmitter for a better view".

Sincerely,

Perry Beebe
aka Dr. Wine

rcdude7

My Feedback: (264)

Yea, get the the boxer 90, the 100 will behave much like a single even though it is a twin.

Don't even start with the motorcycles, or this thread will go sideways for sure. Lots of cycle riders here in the engine forums.

BTW, I ride a suzuki SV.

Hobbsy

My Feedback: (102)

Hey Doc, I'll take that Harley engineering any day of the week and do. Here's a shot of my TS 90 with twin TurboHeaders. This is at least the fourth engine on this Joss Stick since I got it from w8ye. And my 1200C which I call my other hobby

rcdude7

My Feedback: (264)

Oh no[sm=stupid.gif]

My 1000cc V-twin, 110 BHP, quiet and smooooth

Dr. Wine

My Feedback: (2)

Suzuki is OK in my book. Owned several, even the 4WD XL7 SUV.

Back to planes, can anyone give insight on the Saito 300 twin dual plug and carbs? Would like to hang in on a 1/3 Spacewalker. Again I have to decide on this engine or the OS quad. OS looks scale.

BTW, my 1965 Honda S65. Won 1st place. All original.

AA5BY

I've a 90TS in a World Models Cub and a Goldberg Cub with a Saito 50.

The World Models suffered a tip stall and went in and required a front end rebuild. In the crash, one of the flexible headers was broken and not liking the looks of them anyway, 90 deg elbows were used with short bent stacks. The look is much better with little noise difference that I doubt any one would complain about.

btw, of the two I consider the Goldberg the better flier. It has never suggested a tip stall whereas the World Models was quite prone. The World Models was made a better flier with some radio mixing with the usual rudder coupling to aileron often seen on a Cub as well as a considerable bit of aileron differential. Last, the World models was given some aileron up trim mix at lower throttle settings to simulate wash out and reduce nasty tip stalling and it definitely helps.

The Goldberg flies excellent with no mixing of any kind and the Saito 50 flies it very well. The World Models is the better looking of the two having barn door ailerons on a more scale wing about four inches longer than the Goldberg and of course the twin engine as well as a little nicer looking landing struts.

donkey doctor

Hello; That Dealer musn't have any experience with the Saito 45's, to say that. I currently have 5 45's and think it's the engine that secured Saito a place in the four stroke world. The Saito 45 was the engine that proved to me that four stroke RC can work, Before the Saito came along, it was unusual to get a complete run out of ant engine. I was on the point of quitting it all when the Saito 45 came along.

The Harley metaphor doesn't work for me either, I, too drive a BMW, and appreciate a smooth running, reliable long lasting, trouble-free, vibration free, engine.

The 100 twin is based on two 50's on one crankcase, whereas the 90TS is a different design entirely. If the guy doesn't like the 45's, why would he be recommending the 100 over the 90? Could it be that he has an unsold 100 he's had for a while?

I hope the picture of my 100 comes through.

lrb75

My Feedback: (12)

I had a Saito 45MKII. Slowest idling engine I ever saw. It didn't have much power but it ran great. I have 2 45 Specials. Much more power with a big bore carb and a high lift cam. They run great too. The 56 is a much better engine though. I also have a 90T (not TS) that I haven't run. It is a single throw crank. Bet it runs great but doesn't have much power.

Iflyglow

My Feedback: (79)

I had a 100T about 11 years ago. My 100T was the newest version with out the Cam driven Air pump (First 100T) like in your picture. When I ordered it, the brochere showed the pump but mine did not have it. I called Horizon to question it, since Clarence Lee on many ocassions had mentioned the pump being required to purge the crankcase since the volume does not change in the crank case on its own with the odd firing 90T,100T130T and 182T. I guess Clarence was right, because I could only get about 3 gallons from a set of bearing's. I ran total of 3 cases of Wild Cat 20/20 with 1 ounce of caster added per gallon, but the rear bearing would allways be loose (DRY) "NOT RUSTED". The little 100T had very little ever come out of the stock breather.[X(] The engine ran awesome with a Cline fuel regulator, but I got sick of the bearing issues. I had in the end even put another breather fitting in the top of the crank case that stuck out the top of the cub cowl with an aluminum cap (Looked like a fuel cap on real cub). I would shoot 1/4 ounce of Marvels from a siringe in it every day to lube the crankcase. The engine if I remember correctly really like the APC 14-6 the best and would spin it @ 9,500-9,600. I ran the little stubby pipes sourced from Early Saito 45's. One side had a presuure fitting and one did not. The left cylinder allways ran richer while idleing (air bleed screw all the way out) so I drilled out the hole a few number bits bigger so that I could actually use the iddle adjustemt screw on that side. After these modds, it would idle @1,800 and never drop a cylinder. I ran OS#8's with no onboard glow. I kinda miss it, and had the bearing thing cured when I finally parted with it (liberal amounts of oil in case every other flight). At big bird flyin's people would ask me all the time how I got it to run so well without on-board Glow. I used to tke apart the split cowling to show them the Cline regulater.

crankpin

My Feedback: (15)

I have a new Saito FA90TS with Keleo exhaust. I need the innards for the box. Manual, ignition wires and tool kit needed. I will paypal agreed on price.

Thanks,

Crank