wjvail

My Feedback: (3)

You know you've had a good day testing engines when you've not burned a gallon of fuel... but instead collected a 1/2 gallon of exhaust goo![X(]

I had a really nice day in the driveway testing some engines today. I got to around to running my Rossi .91 fitted with a Jett carb and got to do some comparison testing with a OS FX .91 laying on the bench. Tomorrow I hope to get the Jett .91 some run time. Additionally, time permitting, I hope to get an hours running on my new OS Wankel tomorrow. I've not run a Wankel enough to have a very good feel for how they run.

I also got some running on my OS LA .25S. I'm building an old time Ring Master and have this little OS for it.

We recently had a nice discussion about FAI fuel and I wanted to do some serious testing in this area. Today's testing gave me a good chance to do some work on no nitro fuels. I also got a chance to put several hours on my little bushed LA on low oil, no castor fuel. Yes FAI fuel is 20% castor but I did my testing with 18% synthetic.

All of this was helped by the fact it was 85 degrees and my wife is out of town.

All in all a very productive day and I thought I'd share. Attached are some random photos.

Bill

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

Your happy and that's what's important

I have a test stand just like yours but mine is made of maple

Mine s a copy of one I had years ago. It was name brand at the time. Cannot remember the name?

EZJUST?

vicman

My Feedback: (10)

I see she left you with the minivan and took the vette out for the day...hmmmm

My best day was running in an SJ .50 and a neighbor said, "what was that thing? I could hear it in my basement! It sounded fast!" That's when you get one right[8D]

CustomPC

I'd love to see the numbers from the .91's when you get a chance.

plaurence

My Feedback: (2)

Hi Bill

I've been out of rc since 1996. Decided to get back in. I went through my boxes and found a test stand like yours. It is brand new never used. Would you be so kind as to take a couple of detailed photos of your tank and throttle set up?

I have a bunch of engines that have been sitting for about 15 yrs. I'd like to set this stand up and run these engines. From what I could see in your post, you have a functional setup.


Peter

wjvail

My Feedback: (3)

I'm a blessed man with many good choices for what to do with a free day of vacation. While we don't have a Vette, there are still other good ways to get to lunch.[X(] Hey... and the Toyota minivan is new and MY choice for an airplane hauler! For the last 15 years I've been driving a 1989 Ford Aerostar POS Party Van with no air conditioning!!! Yea it's a minivan but after a decade and a half in Mississippi with no AC, I feel like the Sienna IS a Vette! Hell the new van even has this thing that says how much gas is left!

A lot of the running I did was just breaking in the LA .25S and Rossi .91. I didn't get to do many permutations of props and mufflers. I did get to run an APC 14x8 on both the Rossi and OS FX using the stock OS FX muffler. I choose this prop not because it's a good choice for either of these engines. I choose it because I have good numbers for this prop on both an OS .91 Surpass II and Satio .91 four stroke. I'm getting very tired of folks saying 4 strokes produce more torque than 2C engine when my suspicion is they do not. Yesterday seemed like a good chance to do some crude testing.

Here are some first look numbers:
Satio .91 with stock muffler - 9,300
OS Surpass II .91 with stock muffler- 9,200
OS FX .91 with OS FX Muffler- 10.300
OS FX .91 with nelson Ultra Trust Muffler - not tested (yet)
Rossi .91 with OS FX Muffler - 9,600
Rossi .91 with Nelson Ultra Trust muffler - 10,400
Jett .91 with long Jett muffler - Maybe latter today.

Notice the Rossi is considerably off the pace of the FX with the stock FX muffler. At first this is a little surprising but my guess is the Rossi is not comfortable with a 14x8 and the outcome may be different with props in the 13-14K range. Also notice, even though a 14x8 is likely not a good 2C prop, the 2C engines are considerably stronger than the 4C engines. Don't get me wrong, I like 4C engines and they have their place... I just don't see where they make more torque. I wonder what the torque looks like in the 4K to 7K range? Tell me again 4C engines can swing bigger props.?.?

I would like to test a Satio 100 with a 14x8. This is a newer addition to Satio line and on par with the 2C engines in size and weight. My suspicion is it's quite a bit stronger. Cost is a different question completely.

Bill

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

That old Aerostar woulod still make a good knockabout model plane hauler

Gringo Flyer

My Feedback: (18)

SOunds like a fun day. I'm sure the neighbors loved it!

Trisquire

Bill, Is this a homemade after-muffler?

Tom

vicman

My Feedback: (10)

Glad you got the joke Nice skoots.

CustomPC

Hi Bill,

For 14x8 i can offer a comparitive figure for my Webra .91 which peaked at 10,230rpm on 5% nitro and a Turbo-Jett muffler. There's a video of my testing here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuPgsD0fn3g

Torque has a lot to do with the carb venturi size. The larger the venturi diameter the less torque down low.
My Webra has a relatively small venturi of 9.5mm and it's a monster when it comes to turning larger props. The video shows 14x8, 14x10, 15x6, 15x8 and 16x6 props being tested. It's out turning my TT 1.30 4-stroke by 300rpm but to be fair to the TT it's not broken in fully and has some compression problems due to a manufacturing flaw in the glow plug thread.

I would guess that your rossi has a venturi size around 11-12mm and it will probably go really well on smaller props where it can reach higher rpms.

wjvail

My Feedback: (3)

Tom.. It's a stock OS FX muffler I got from the Tower.... http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXCB99&P=Z At almost $50USD it's not cheep but it's a really a nice muffler and fits quite a few engines.

Well... It's been an OK hobby hauler... and would still be, but.... The transmission is dying. Really dying and has been for a while. If you give 'er any gas, it jumps out of gear. The A/C is fixable but it's R-12 and I was told a long time ago that would cost more than I cared for. Further, you (the American people) just bought it from me for $3,500. I paid a shipmate 3,000 for it in 1996 and I just traded it in for 3,500. Not bad! [X(] We wanted it off he road and it's gonna get crushed. I really don't feel like I won anything though. I'd have been just as happy with another used car but that wasn't an option under the cash for clunkers plan. Err... I put $14,000 down and 300 a month for the next 60(!) months on the new hobby hauler. If cash for clunkers is such a "good deal", why don't I feel better?

That engine mount is something a bought MANY years ago from a fella making them for a short period of time. I wish I could remember where exactly I got it. The stand the engine mount is affixed to is another story. I good friend welded that up for my a few years ago. As for the throttle and tank mount, that came from PSPMGG. They make a really great mounts but I've found the mount pictured easier to use. I stole the tank mount and throttle set up off my PSP mount for use them with my "other" mount. The good news is, they sell the parts by themselves. They are a little pricey but they do work well. http://www.pspmfg.com/EngineTestStan...mentParts.html

I got some run time on my OS Wankel and did some further testing with the .91's today. The JETT .91L with the longer JETT pipe/muffler turned the same APC 14x8 noted above, at around 11,100 rpm. That's pretty stout. That's almost 2K above the 4C's of the same displacement. This engine came with the shorter pipe and was set up to turn a 12x6 at closer to 16,000. It is more comfortable at lower rpm with the longer pipe but I have to believe the internals (porting) are still better suited to 15,000+ I'd love to have a YS .91 to test. It is certainly not fair to compare a piped JETT .91 to an OS Surpass .91. A JETT .91 to a YS .91 might be interesting. Unfortunately the OS FX muffler didn't fit the JETT case. It'd be interesting to see how much the pipe is helping.

Bill

plaurence

My Feedback: (2)

thanks for the help Bill


Plaurence

jimmyjames213

My Feedback: (2)

i heard the wankel makes 40 sized power with 60 sized fuel consumption, is this the case? does it drain fuel like crazy?
what are the wankels numbers?


you should recycle that goo, some 4 strokes do it

wjvail

My Feedback: (3)

Err.. I did mention I'd run the Wankel but never got back to it. Today I ran the Wankel and because of its considerable cost and many precision parts, I choose to run this one in very slowly. I really didn't get any more than just a good hours worth of sloppy rich running. One thing that didn't take long to notice was that it's one messy little mother. I usually can run a motor for an hour and collect most of the goo but this thing had snot everywhere. It may be it's coming from the muffler since I was not impressed with its mounting and or fit to the case. I would silicone it on but I think I'm going to fabricate my own custom muffler and don't really care how messy it is for bench running. I will say that 15 min with this Wankel produced 10 times more gunk than an hours running with a Rossi .90 yesterday.

I don't know about fuel consumption or performance numbers yet. I run my testing and break-in off a 5 gallon jug/fuel tank so I don't have any feel for burn rate.

Vibration and sound level were good but a little difficult to get a complete handle on. The way I had the engine mounted (unsupported at the far end of my test board) allowed the little vibration there was to propagate and I need a more rigid mount to get a more fair assessment of how the engine will sound in a plane. It didn't help that the engine I run just before this was the Jett .91 and was a beast in comparison. This little Wankel just purred.

I was running an APC 10x5 and will probably continue with this tomorrow. It seemed like an OK size.

This one tries to recycle with the case breather vented to the velocity stack but my first impression is what's the point. Also, most of what I collect is water vapor. I've not dissected the snot in any meaningful way, but I'd estimate it's about 3/4 water. Further, it's corrosive as hell! As those that have know me for a while will attest, I'm insistent it's the byproducts of nitromethane combustion that causes corrosion in our engines. Anything metal in that bucket overnight is badly corroded the next morning.

Bill

Turk1

Hi Bill that muffler is a standart Chinese engine muffler with a same manifold size for 90 engines.Costing 17 $.
http://www.kangkeusa.com/Engines/90parts.htm

martenson

Bill is that a salt & pepar miniature schnauser (sp) I have 3, one white one black and one black & silver.
I like to tinker around like that to, I ran a ED 2.46 unusual glow engine and a Typhoon glow engine last night.
Nothing like playing with engines from 1950ths.

Take care.

Trisquire

Thanks Will. I was referring to the tube you've got attached to it.

Tom

wjvail

My Feedback: (3)

Oops... I understand now. Yup, it's homemade. It's a bucket from Lowe's and some tubing from MSC and the hobby shop. The only part that might be a little hard to duplicate is the a little fitting I machined as a tubing adapter. I needed tubing the correct size to attach to the muffler but I wanted very large tubing to the collector and that required making a fitting. If you don't have access to a lithe, I think you could probably make one out of a piece of wood dowel and a drill.

Also... I don't know if the smaller silicone tubing is still available. Can anyone help? I'd like to buy some more.

Finally, I wouldn't recommend the muffler pictured. It doesn't help and just rusts and falls off and it doesn't make things appreciably cleaner or more quiet.

Turk. Nice find!! Where were you two weeks ago when I bought mine!?!?

Bill

Dan M

My Feedback: (1)

Bill ... I had to Laugh !!!!

I kept a blue ford aerostar for 6 years to haul planes in , an 89 , with no ac , in Florida ......[:@]

happiest day of RC for me in the last few years ? picking up a 2000 Sienna (all power , and ICE COLD AC )

yanked all the seats out of the back and man i cant believe how many aircraft i can pack in that thing , i can even stick my 81" cub in the back with the wing on !

they really are the Cadillac of the minivan !

best wishes

Dan

Trisquire

Thanks Bill. That setup probably makes the break-in process more neighbor friendly.

Tom

Hobbsy

My Feedback: (102)

Bill, This is my preferred skoot and my plane hauler is a 95 Ford F 150 with 157,000 miles that is still quieter and smoother inside than most cars. Id you'd like some Saito 1.00 numbers with a 14x8 I can do a run for you. One of the worst things you can to an air conditioner is to let some moron give it a "spring check up" No one has touched the AC in my F 150 and it will still make your arms ache if left on full cold. Same with my wifes 97 Saturn SCII. Woops, off the soap box.

Did those Aerostars not come with ACs? Thanks, Dave

wjvail

My Feedback: (3)

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DcDTNyViX0[/youtube]

I've got one more day of vacation and I had a super day running my new little OS Wankel. I've got a very much better impression of how this engine runs.

A a few notes:
It's still a messy little SOB. Goo everywhere. While do believe the muffler is leaking and could stand to be sealed, I noticed the front bearing also sprayed a good bit.

I now have over two hours running on the bench and it's just starting to come in. Granted I was very gentle breaking it in so it may have taken a little longer. It actually started to loosen up after I started working it a little harder. The compression is up and the goo is dropping off. Normally I recommend bench running but will concede that it is not required. With this engine I would say it's a necessity.

The more I run it the better it idles. It always idled well but in the beginning it HAD to have the battery on it.

It does well with a OS F. It did not like a Merlin 2009.

Where the idle needle is in relation to the muffler requires a hemostat to adjust. There is no way to get a screw driver on it.

Despite what I've read, mine did not run hot. The highest number I saw all day was about 280deg C. It held a lot of heat after the engine was shut off but the biggest number was on par for any other model engine.

I still don't have a good feel for fuel consumption. My impression is that it is pretty high for a .30 ish engine but I haven't check the burn rate yet.

Vibration was minimal. There was some vibration but that could have been my prop and mounting and seemed to only exist while the engine was a mid rpm.

Noise was average but I think that had to do more with the poor muffler. The included muffler is small and ineffective. My "goo collector" went a LONG way to making the engine quieter.

I did my testing with an APC 10x5. It turned that at 12,500 and would idle at about 2,500. At $400-450.00 that isn't very remarkable performance... but... it's a Wankel!!!

Bill

steven555

Guys, i've been searching everywhere for an engine back mount for a 49 Type 2 .30 Wankel, and i just can't find one. Can anyone give me a weblink to one or suggest an alternative?

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