Glow Engines Discuss RC glow engines

Going to YS, I'm done with Saito

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Old 06-26-2009, 04:13 PM
  #1
Raman
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Default Going to YS, I'm done with Saito

I have a Saito 100 with my H-9 Corsair. It's my first Saito and I don't have kind words for this motor. Motor has between 15 - 20 tanks through it. It either dies at idle or the plane walks. The airfield I attend is filled with Saito user and each with their own set of advices. Glow plug is fine, fuel is Power Master 20/20, fresh can.

1. Prop: I started out with a 15 x8 prop, down to a 14 x 6 and and now a 13 x 6 still dies at idle or walks
2. Advised to taxi with glow attached and remove right before flight. Plane flew but on low speed pass dead sticked.
3. Advised to put weight on tail wheel, taxi and remove and fly. He said Saito's aren't to Taxi, Horizon even advises to put it on run way and fly it
4. Lower tank: Since motor is not pumped, fuel is syphoning into carb and choking it. Lower tank to resolve issue.
5. Install motor up right.. again because it is not pumped carb being choked.
6. On board glow

I've given this motor plenty of chances, this is over 6 weeks. Too much effort for one motor. So I'm done! I am going to get a YS. I know they can be fickle to tune, but two of my friends are expert tuners on YS, so I'm not worried.

Size wise the YS 110 is about the same, but I'm afraid it may have too much power for my Corsair. I've heard that the YS 63 has almost the same power at the 100.

Please advise.
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Old 06-26-2009, 04:36 PM
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Default RE: Going to YS, I'm done with Saito

I'd advise you to learn how to break in and tune the Saito, or you will really have trouble with the YS!!!
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Old 06-26-2009, 04:43 PM
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Default RE: Going to YS, I'm done with Saito


Saito engines are not known to be anything but well behaved and user friendly. I think you have just not located the problem that is causing your engine to flameout. a 14X8 is a good prop for that 100, the 13X6 being way to light a load.

I do fly YS also and they have also been good to me. One thing I have noticed about my YS engines is that they seem to run inverted the same as if they were sideways or upright, they just don't seen to care one way or the other.
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Old 06-26-2009, 05:05 PM
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Default RE: Going to YS, I'm done with Saito

Send it to me. I could use a 100.

I think there's something in your setup that's not quite right. Start with an OS F plug and a 14x8 prop. The stock Saito plug will not idle anywhere near as low as the OS. The 13x6 is too light a load and won't give the motor the flywheel it needs.
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Old 06-26-2009, 05:10 PM
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Default RE: Going to YS, I'm done with Saito

Quote:
ORIGINAL: scott17

I'd advise you to learn how to break in and tune the Saito, or you will really have trouble with the YS!!!
As I mentioned.. Saito users at my airfield, have tried to tune my motor and each one walking away telling me to try one of the steps from 1 to 6. I've broken in and tuned a lot of 2 stroke and 4 stroke motors and this Saito has been a nightmare. It maybe my bad luck.

In any case, I'm not looking for advice on tuning the Saito.. as the subject says.. Im done with Saito. I'm looking for advice on which YS will best suit my needs, the FZ 63 or FZ 110 S. YS tuners are a plenty at the airfield I attend. 65% of the motors there are YS.
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Old 06-26-2009, 05:12 PM
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Default RE: Going to YS, I'm done with Saito


Quote:
ORIGINAL: ChrisAttebery

Send it to me. I could use a 100.

I think there's something in your setup that's not quite right. Start with an OS F plug and a 14x8 prop. The stock Saito plug will not idle anywhere near as low as the OS. The 13x6 is too light a load and won't give the motor the flywheel it needs.
Up until yesterday.. the prop was 14 x 8 for 4 weeks! Have tried the Saito plug, H-9 Plug. Not the OS however. Nonetheless, I'm done with it. You want it.. make me an offer :-)
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Old 06-26-2009, 05:14 PM
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Default RE: Going to YS, I'm done with Saito

Quote:
I do fly YS also and they have also been good to me. One thing I have noticed about my YS engines is that they seem to run inverted the same as if they were sideways or upright, they just don't seen to care one way or the other.
<- that's the beauty of a pumped motor.


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Old 06-26-2009, 05:19 PM
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Default RE: Going to YS, I'm done with Saito

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ORIGINAL: Raman

that's the beauty of a pumped motor.


Not all of them, the YS is unique.



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Old 06-26-2009, 05:45 PM
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Default RE: Going to YS, I'm done with Saito

If you do go with "YS" in the 110 size...IMHO I'd go with the "Early" 110FZ & NOT the 110s...I have three of each & yup the 110s is a little stronger WHEN you can get it adjusted correctly...The "Early" 110FZ runs a close second & is very user/friendly...FWIW
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Old 06-26-2009, 06:28 PM
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Default RE: Going to YS, I'm done with Saito

Good luck with the YS. You will most likely give up on that in 4 weeks not 6. You haven't gotten the Saito broken in yet. Try the OS F and the correct prop (try a 15x6) on your Saito. It will never idle very low with the small prop and you could damage it by over reving the engine. Check the valve lash and make sure there isn't anything in the carb needle. Also save the 20/20 fuel for the YS you will need it. Just use 15%nitro and 18%oil. Also the tank should be even with the carb. People giving you advise to leave the glow driver on or to taxi with a weight aren't being helpful. If you do get a YS the 63 will fly the Corsair fine. If you have any trouble with the YS check for air leaks. If any of the gaskets leak the engine won't run worth a d***. It is also very easy to chase the settings on a YS way out of wack. There are three adjustment on the YS rather than two. So have fun................
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Old 06-26-2009, 06:53 PM
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Default RE: Going to YS, I'm done with Saito

Raman - Sorry to hear about your trouble with Saito. I guess we all have experiences that shape what we like and don't like. My experience 10 years ago with YS was not good. I had an engine that had a casting flaw and when it warmed up.......it went lean and blew the prop, spinner and nuts ( both of them ) off the crank. This happened about 6 times until I finally put it on the stand and watched it go from filthy rich........to so lean it backfired. I have not bought a YS in 10 years............

My flying buddy bought a Saito 115, we put it on the stand and used 15% and put some oil in the crankcase for the cam and a few drops in the valve cover, checked the lash and primed it with a few flips. Using a chicken stick it fired on the first try and it ran great from the start with the supplied Saito plug. We then broke it in on a big stick and it has run great save the muffler breaking or coming loose all the time. The stock muffler broke at the threads where the muffler attaches to the pipe and an aftermarket muffler vibrated the big nut out. I guess we will have to safety wire it so it cant back off.

My experiences are exactly opposite to yours. I just hope I have good luck with a couple of YS 110's that I going to buy for two warbirds...........

A suggestion......before you write off Saito, put it on a test stand and run it to see exactly what its doing. Maybe it does have a problem, thats what warranty is for then send it back and get a good one. If it don't run good on the stand, it will never run good in a plane. You will also have a baseline to tell how it runs when on the plane, usefull for troubleshooting problems with the planes fuel system.

The YS's are a monster of an engine when they run right, they are more complicated than a Saito, and we all know the more complicated a system is, the more maintance and care it will need.

Good luck with either engine you choose to run
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Old 06-26-2009, 07:01 PM
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Default RE: Going to YS, I'm done with Saito


Quote:
ORIGINAL: lrb75

Good luck with the YS. You will most likely give up on that in 4 weeks not 6. You haven't gotten the Saito broken in yet. Try the OS F and the correct prop (try a 15x6) on your Saito. It will never idle very low with the small prop and you could damage it by over reving the engine. Check the valve lash and make sure there isn't anything in the carb needle. Also save the 20/20 fuel for the YS you will need it. Just use 15%nitro and 18%oil. Also the tank should be even with the carb. People giving you advise to leave the glow driver on or to taxi with a weight aren't being helpful. If you do get a YS the 63 will fly the Corsair fine. If you have any trouble with the YS check for air leaks. If any of the gaskets leak the engine won't run worth a d***. It is also very easy to chase the settings on a YS way out of wack. There are three adjustment on the YS rather than two. So have fun................
I have a YS 2 stroke heli motor with check valve, which has 3 adjustments have rarely had problems with it. I've also had modified Novarossi 2 strokes that are a nightmare to tune which also have 2 and 3 needle carbs again, am quite good at tuning those. I understand 4 stroke are different. My airfield is filled with YS users, so if I run into trouble I have plenty people to help me.

Unfortunately, as you noticed the Saito tips I received were not helpful. They didn't resolve the issue. The issue has persisted with Props from 15 to 14 to 13. For 6 weeks I have heard nothing but negative things about Saitos and for 6 weeks, I have had troubles.

So with so many YS's flying without issue.. I'm naturally leaning towards them because at least I will have sound support!
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Old 06-26-2009, 07:51 PM
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Default RE: Going to YS, I'm done with Saito

To offer my comment -if going to the ys110 you should seriously consider reinforcing the firewall because the ys is a lot more powerful than the saito 100. also take a hard look at the elevator- some of their elevators have been known to break in pulling out of high speed dives or sharp turns.

Ed
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Old 06-26-2009, 09:34 PM
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Default RE: Going to YS, I'm done with Saito

What do you want for it? The Satio that is.

L.
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Old 06-26-2009, 09:34 PM
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Default RE: Going to YS, I'm done with Saito

Firewall on my Corsair has been glassed and re-inforced. Elevators.. you mean break off the steel hinge or break apart?
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Old 06-26-2009, 09:40 PM
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Default RE: Going to YS, I'm done with Saito

Raman, pull the screw that holds the carb barrel in and let us know if it is worn at all at the end of the screw.
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Old 06-26-2009, 10:19 PM
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Default RE: Going to YS, I'm done with Saito

The YS 110 is said to outperform the Saito 125 and is usually used on similar planes at the Saito 125.

Mine is spinning a 15x10 at 8800rpm after rich tuning, and a 16x6 at a hair over 10,000 after rich tuning.

The 110 works really well in my two planes which are in the 8-9lb range (Yak and Venus).
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Old 06-26-2009, 10:33 PM
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Default RE: Going to YS, I'm done with Saito

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ORIGINAL: Mikecam

Raman, pull the screw that holds the carb barrel in and let us know if it is worn at all at the end of the screw.
Nope.. still anodised black
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Old 06-26-2009, 11:15 PM
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Default RE: Going to YS, I'm done with Saito

Raman,
Have followed faithfully recommendations of Troy Newman (http://www.patternflyer.com/troy/?page_id=13) in setting up YS 63 S and YS FX110S engines, using Morgan Cool Power Heli 30% nitro, 23% low viscosity fuel. They run flawlessly; lots of power, very dependable, low idle (2000 RPM), smooth transition from idle to full power. Suggest you consider reading through recommendations at above website once you receive your new YS engines.
Happy Flying!
Ken
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Old 06-26-2009, 11:17 PM
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Default RE: Going to YS, I'm done with Saito

Quote:
ORIGINAL: Raman

I have a Saito 100 with my H-9 Corsair. It's my first Saito and I don't have kind words for this motor. Motor has between 15 - 20 tanks through it. It either dies at idle or the plane walks. The airfield I attend is filled with Saito user and each with their own set of advices. Glow plug is fine, fuel is Power Master 20/20, fresh can.

1. Prop: I started out with a 15 x8 prop, down to a 14 x 6 and and now a 13 x 6 still dies at idle or walks
2. Advised to taxi with glow attached and remove right before flight. Plane flew but on low speed pass dead sticked.
3. Advised to put weight on tail wheel, taxi and remove and fly. He said Saito's aren't to Taxi, Horizon even advises to put it on run way and fly it
4. Lower tank: Since motor is not pumped, fuel is syphoning into carb and choking it. Lower tank to resolve issue.
5. Install motor up right.. again because it is not pumped carb being choked.
6. On board glow

I've given this motor plenty of chances, this is over 6 weeks. Too much effort for one motor. So I'm done! I am going to get a YS. I know they can be fickle to tune, but two of my friends are expert tuners on YS, so I'm not worried.

Size wise the YS 110 is about the same, but I'm afraid it may have too much power for my Corsair. I've heard that the YS 63 has almost the same power at the 100.

Please advise.

The YS 63 does not have the same power as the 110, I've owned their entire line. If you are having troubles tuning your Saito, just wait till you have a problem with a YS, it can be equally if not more frustrating.

My suggestion would be to work the problem with your Saito, it can be fixed.

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Old 06-26-2009, 11:54 PM
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Default RE: Going to YS, I'm done with Saito

I have 2 YS engines. One is a 91 AC and the other is a 91 FZ. Both run fantastic and have plenty of power even at
6200 ft. I figure that the pumped 91 engines have the power of a non pumped 120.

I am still interested in what you want for the Saito 100. I have a test stand that I want to try it in.
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Old 06-27-2009, 12:14 AM
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Default RE: Going to YS, I'm done with Saito

The YS .63FZ-S may, or may not be an option...

It is rumored to have been replaced by the new, stronger YS .70, with the same weight.
Those that still have .63 engines, should be clearing them cheap..., but the Saito 1.00 is a bit more powerful.


This .70 engine for sure will perform on-par with the Saito 1.00 and will have a definite fuel-system advantage (as long as none of its components is stuck, worn, soiled, or disfigured...).

The YS 1.10FZ is on-par performance-wise, with the Saito 1.50... The Saito 1.25 is a weakling in comparison.


EDIT: Grammar.
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Old 06-27-2009, 01:15 AM
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Default RE: Going to YS, I'm done with Saito

The Y-S 110 is history. Now you have to be talking about the Y-S 115
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Old 06-27-2009, 05:23 AM
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Default RE: Going to YS, I'm done with Saito

It is virtually impossible to have to much power!
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Old 06-27-2009, 05:40 AM
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Default RE: Going to YS, I'm done with Saito

Did anyone catch the OP's comment complaining about the engine pulling the model forward on the taxiway while idling? Me thinks his expectations are a bit unrealistic. No offense intended.


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