Glow-plug taps - what we pay for the title...
07-14-2009, 10:05 PM
#51
RE: Glow-plug taps - what we pay for the title...
Which threads work better for chasing or for tapping?? Ground or rolled? I'm getting a bit of an education here.
So much ado about a simple topic. I can tell by many of the posts who has first hand knowledge and who doesn't.[sm=75_75.gif]
07-15-2009, 03:36 AM
#52
Senior Member
Thread Starter
RE: Glow-plug taps - what we pay for the title...
ORIGINAL: Broken Wings
Dar, think about it. The process is the same. It works on both the O.D. and the I.D. That is why they are called ''roll taps''. It rolls an internal thread. It ''moves'' the material.
Do a search for Roll Tap....... Do all these companies incorrectly describe the tools they manufacture and sell?
Dar, think about it. The process is the same. It works on both the O.D. and the I.D. That is why they are called ''roll taps''. It rolls an internal thread. It ''moves'' the material.
Do a search for Roll Tap....... Do all these companies incorrectly describe the tools they manufacture and sell?
This is in essence what I am saying...
They do call the product a roll-tap, but is is neither a tap (because it does not cut, or remove material to form the thread), nor does it roll over the substrate.
It presses material from the 'valleys' to the 'ridges', by forcefully sliding over it (sliding â‰* rolling).
I disagree with the original post.
I don't feel that I'm being ''Suckered'' by the many hobby suppliers that I buy from. I get good service and have had no problems with anything that I've bought from Tower. If there is a problem they will usually send out a replacement. I've had similar experiences with Horizon. My local hobby shop owner has never ''suckered me'' and is generally a real nice guy.
What don't you agree with, exactly?
I have a *Zeelon .49* engine here...
Are you willing to buy it from me for $1,000?
It is actually a great MVVS .49, in excellent running condition and for sure it had cost me much, much less.
But I am offering it for sale as a Zeelon engine and it is worth more. Even though it was neither altered, nor re-badged in any way, it is different from the original engine sold by MVVS, since I am the seller...
If you are willing to buy the same Hanson 1424 $1.91 tap, for $5-$11; because the seller calls it a "Harry Higley glow-plug tap", then you are being suckered...
I have learned to appreciate Mr Higley, for his excellent articles, books and the engine 'know-how' that he exhibits... Not for 'profiteering' on these cheap, Hanson 1/4"x32 taps.
-
Many threads in this forum discuss buying after-market bearings, to replace OEM bearings.
People here are glad to pay Paul of RC-Bearings [link=http://www.rc-bearings.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=65_66_72&products_id=722]under $7[/link] a set, for replacement bearings for their OS .40-.55 engines.
Buying an *original* set at Tower, would cost a total of nearly $38.50 and the RC-Bearings set includes a polyamide cage for the rear bearing, which the original does not...
One of the objectives of this forum should be 'How to make your hobby Dollar go further'...
07-15-2009, 05:34 AM
#53
RE: Glow-plug taps - what we pay for the title...
ORIGINAL: DarZeelon
BW,
This is in essence what I am saying...
They do call the product a roll-tap, but is is neither a tap (because it does not cut, or remove material to form the thread), nor does it roll over the substrate.
It presses material from the 'valleys' to the 'ridges', by forcefully sliding over it (sliding â‰* rolling).
I disagree with the original post.
I don't feel that I'm being ''Suckered'' by the many hobby suppliers that I buy from. I get good service and have had no problems with anything that I've bought from Tower. If there is a problem they will usually send out a replacement. I've had similar experiences with Horizon. My local hobby shop owner has never ''suckered me'' and is generally a real nice guy.
What don't you agree with, exactly?
I have a *Zeelon .49* engine here...
Are you willing to buy it from me for $1,000?
It is actually a great MVVS .49, in excellent running condition and for sure it had cost me much, much less.
But I am offering it for sale as a Zeelon engine and it is worth more. Even though it was neither altered, nor re-badged in any way, it is different from the original engine sold by MVVS, since I am the seller...
If you are willing to buy the same Hanson 1424 $1.91 tap, for $5-$11; because the seller calls it a ''Harry Higley glow-plug tap'', then you are being suckered...
I have learned to appreciate Mr Higley, for his excellent articles, books and the engine 'know-how' that he exhibits... Not for 'profiteering' on these cheap, Hanson 1/4''x32 taps.
-
Many threads in this forum discuss buying after-market bearings, to replace OEM bearings.
People here are glad to pay Paul of RC-Bearings [link=http://www.rc-bearings.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=65_66_72&products_id=722]under $7[/link] a set, for replacement bearings for their OS .40-.55 engines.
Buying an *original* set at Tower, would cost a total of nearly $38.50 and the RC-Bearings set includes a polyamide cage for the rear bearing, which the original does not...
One of the objectives of this forum should be 'How to make your hobby Dollar go further'...
ORIGINAL: Broken Wings
Dar, think about it. The process is the same. It works on both the O.D. and the I.D. That is why they are called ''roll taps''. It rolls an internal thread. It ''moves'' the material.
Do a search for Roll Tap....... Do all these companies incorrectly describe the tools they manufacture and sell?
Dar, think about it. The process is the same. It works on both the O.D. and the I.D. That is why they are called ''roll taps''. It rolls an internal thread. It ''moves'' the material.
Do a search for Roll Tap....... Do all these companies incorrectly describe the tools they manufacture and sell?
This is in essence what I am saying...
They do call the product a roll-tap, but is is neither a tap (because it does not cut, or remove material to form the thread), nor does it roll over the substrate.
It presses material from the 'valleys' to the 'ridges', by forcefully sliding over it (sliding â‰* rolling).
I disagree with the original post.
I don't feel that I'm being ''Suckered'' by the many hobby suppliers that I buy from. I get good service and have had no problems with anything that I've bought from Tower. If there is a problem they will usually send out a replacement. I've had similar experiences with Horizon. My local hobby shop owner has never ''suckered me'' and is generally a real nice guy.
What don't you agree with, exactly?
I have a *Zeelon .49* engine here...
Are you willing to buy it from me for $1,000?
It is actually a great MVVS .49, in excellent running condition and for sure it had cost me much, much less.
But I am offering it for sale as a Zeelon engine and it is worth more. Even though it was neither altered, nor re-badged in any way, it is different from the original engine sold by MVVS, since I am the seller...
If you are willing to buy the same Hanson 1424 $1.91 tap, for $5-$11; because the seller calls it a ''Harry Higley glow-plug tap'', then you are being suckered...
I have learned to appreciate Mr Higley, for his excellent articles, books and the engine 'know-how' that he exhibits... Not for 'profiteering' on these cheap, Hanson 1/4''x32 taps.
-
Many threads in this forum discuss buying after-market bearings, to replace OEM bearings.
People here are glad to pay Paul of RC-Bearings [link=http://www.rc-bearings.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=65_66_72&products_id=722]under $7[/link] a set, for replacement bearings for their OS .40-.55 engines.
Buying an *original* set at Tower, would cost a total of nearly $38.50 and the RC-Bearings set includes a polyamide cage for the rear bearing, which the original does not...
One of the objectives of this forum should be 'How to make your hobby Dollar go further'...
Just Google ROLL TAP . Gee what a bunch if misinformed manufactures. To think the people/companies that make the things had it wrong all this time.
Thanks Dar for clearing that up for the world...
I make my "Hobby Dollar" go futher by buying quality products. I try and stay away from the engines that are being discontinued or are hard to get parts for. I normally use OS and Jett engines for sport and performance. Any parts that I may need are readily available.
07-15-2009, 05:57 AM
#54
Senior Member
Thread Starter
RE: Glow-plug taps - what we pay for the title...
ORIGINAL: Broken Wings
If the Roll Tap that they manufacture isn't a tap then what is it Dar? They have to be wrong so you can be right?
If the Roll Tap that they manufacture isn't a tap then what is it Dar? They have to be wrong so you can be right?
That item is a thread-forming tool; nothing more, nothing less.
I make my ''Hobby Dollar'' go further by buying quality products. I stay away from the ''Zeelon .49's and their kin folk''
and use OS and Jett engines for sport and performance. You choose to keep away from *my* item that was 'relabeled'; even though it is in essence, a very reputable, high-quality product...
Even the makers of Jett and Nelson engines, consider it a very good product...
...Yet, you willfully pay much more for another item, that was relabeled just the same.
07-15-2009, 07:55 AM
#55
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RE: Glow-plug taps - what we pay for the title...
It's a thread forming tap.
Some dweeb eons ago doing an inventory may have mislabeled the tap 'thread roll" and the name stuck with some retailers.
Is also a way to sell in to product diversification, however some of the most respected manufactures like OSG refer to that tap as a "thread forming tap",
Keep in mind that even misspelled words come up on a web search, it doesn't mean it's correct.
Some dweeb eons ago doing an inventory may have mislabeled the tap 'thread roll" and the name stuck with some retailers.
Is also a way to sell in to product diversification, however some of the most respected manufactures like OSG refer to that tap as a "thread forming tap",
Keep in mind that even misspelled words come up on a web search, it doesn't mean it's correct.
07-16-2009, 08:19 AM
#58
RE: Glow-plug taps - what we pay for the title...
ORIGINAL: DarZeelon
I have a *Zeelon .49* engine here...
Are you willing to buy it from me for $x?
I have a *Zeelon .49* engine here...
Are you willing to buy it from me for $x?
Sometimes I just can't help myself
07-16-2009, 08:45 AM
#59
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Join Date: May 2003
Location: Orangeville, ON, CANADA
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RE: Glow-plug taps - what we pay for the title...
ORIGINAL: freakingfast
I have always wondered why glow plugs have used such fine threads as 32 tpi. It's general design practice to use courser threads in softer materials (like cast aluminum) and fine threads in hardened materials (like heat treated shafts). These practices are used to get the highest yield strength for a given size and reduce striping threads in softer materials.
The four reasons I can think of why they sacrificed thread strength for glow plugs are: #1That perhaps they wanted more leads for a ''short reach'' (which should never have been made in the first place, IMHO). #2 they wanted to make sure that no one would use a common size screw in the glow plug hole for a potentially damaging attempt to keep the crank from turning. 3# They were worried that a steeper/courser thread would back out or unscrew by itself under combustion impulses. 4#They wanted a larger minor thread diameter so they could have a larger hole for the element.
I have always wondered why glow plugs have used such fine threads as 32 tpi. It's general design practice to use courser threads in softer materials (like cast aluminum) and fine threads in hardened materials (like heat treated shafts). These practices are used to get the highest yield strength for a given size and reduce striping threads in softer materials.
The four reasons I can think of why they sacrificed thread strength for glow plugs are: #1That perhaps they wanted more leads for a ''short reach'' (which should never have been made in the first place, IMHO). #2 they wanted to make sure that no one would use a common size screw in the glow plug hole for a potentially damaging attempt to keep the crank from turning. 3# They were worried that a steeper/courser thread would back out or unscrew by itself under combustion impulses. 4#They wanted a larger minor thread diameter so they could have a larger hole for the element.
MJD
07-16-2009, 11:16 AM
#62
Senior Member
Thread Starter
RE: Glow-plug taps - what we pay for the title...
ORIGINAL: downunder
No thanks Dar, I doubt it's been run in correctly.
Sometimes I just can't help myself
No thanks Dar, I doubt it's been run in correctly.
Sometimes I just can't help myself
ORIGINAL: blw
I wanted to tell Barry (a genuine US Southerner) about us; that from now on we'd be feuding...
...But we've been doing that for ages...
07-18-2009, 02:42 AM
#65
RE: Glow-plug taps - what we pay for the title...
ORIGINAL: Motorboy
Every one can make own treading tap with a lathe as i did, see the pic... 
Use drill rod as material, it is strong enough to treading in soft material such as in aluminium, brass..
Do not hardening the homemade treading tap or you will distort the tap for all perfect treading measure.
ORIGINAL: pe reivers
I have a 1954 model Myford 7 ''table model''
Recently re-aligned the spindle bearings and slides, so it should be good for another 50 years.
I have a 1954 model Myford 7 ''table model''
Recently re-aligned the spindle bearings and slides, so it should be good for another 50 years.
Use drill rod as material, it is strong enough to treading in soft material such as in aluminium, brass..
Do not hardening the homemade treading tap or you will distort the tap for all perfect treading measure.
I am an instrumentation engineer.
For my 30 years old second hand ENYA 60 4C I did need new thread for the glow plug.
For that I do make the "helicoil" myself, it's the only and better solution in such a little 4 stroke.
My lathe? for 40 years my little EMCO Unimat "table model"!
This is a time consuming activity only to use for unique engines and without you have the possibility to buy a new "head".
Remember, there is no Glow-plug tap on the world that brings you the metal back that's gone!!
"Dutch modelers do it on the table" (LOL)
Cees
07-18-2009, 06:28 AM
#66
RE: Glow-plug taps - what we pay for the title...
ORIGINAL: Taurus Flyer
Gents,
I am an instrumentation engineer.
For my 30 years old second hand ENYA 60 4C I did need new thread for the glow plug.
For that I do make the ''helicoil'' myself, it's the only and better solution in such a little 4 stroke.
My lathe? for 40 years my little EMCO Unimat ''table model''!
This is a time consuming activity only to use for unique engines and without you have the possibility to buy a new ''head''.
Remember, there is no Glow-plug tap on the world that brings you the metal back that's gone!!
''Dutch modelers do it on the table'' (LOL)
Cees
ORIGINAL: Motorboy
Every one can make own treading tap with a lathe as i did, see the pic...
Use drill rod as material, it is strong enough to treading in soft material such as in aluminium, brass..
Do not hardening the homemade treading tap or you will distort the tap for all perfect treading measure.
ORIGINAL: pe reivers
I have a 1954 model Myford 7 ''table model''
Recently re-aligned the spindle bearings and slides, so it should be good for another 50 years.
I have a 1954 model Myford 7 ''table model''
Recently re-aligned the spindle bearings and slides, so it should be good for another 50 years.
Use drill rod as material, it is strong enough to treading in soft material such as in aluminium, brass..
Do not hardening the homemade treading tap or you will distort the tap for all perfect treading measure.
I am an instrumentation engineer.
For my 30 years old second hand ENYA 60 4C I did need new thread for the glow plug.
For that I do make the ''helicoil'' myself, it's the only and better solution in such a little 4 stroke.
My lathe? for 40 years my little EMCO Unimat ''table model''!
This is a time consuming activity only to use for unique engines and without you have the possibility to buy a new ''head''.
Remember, there is no Glow-plug tap on the world that brings you the metal back that's gone!!
''Dutch modelers do it on the table'' (LOL)
Cees
1. Drill out the damaged plug hole and tread the treads into the plughole with M8 tap
2. Make a brass sleeve with M8 at outside and 1/4"-32 inside.
3. Screw the treaded brass sleeve into the plughole with "non-dismantable" locktite applied at the M8 treads.
4. The engine are ready to use!
I had the old Emco unimat-3, sold for a long time since.. now i has 2 lathe, a mini-lathe and a 250x550 lathe + homemade milling machine.
