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Tower .46 vs GMS .47

Old 01-20-2010, 04:32 PM
  #51  
hairy46
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Default RE: Tower .46 vs GMS .47

Just have to say again, i have six GMS engines three 47's and three 61's now i am feeling very lucky because i have six great engines! For a crap shoot I hit a 100%
Old 01-20-2010, 04:48 PM
  #52  
Harry Lagman
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Default RE: Tower .46 vs GMS .47


ORIGINAL: hairy46

Just have to say again, i have six GMS engines three 47's and three 61's now i am feeling very lucky because i have six great engines! For a crap shoot I hit a 100%
Well done! Time for you to buy that lottery ticket methinks.

I've flown perhaps a dozen identical trainers with GMS .47s on them and I can definitely spot the differences. Some of them were good and some were not so good.
Old 01-20-2010, 04:58 PM
  #53  
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Default RE: Tower .46 vs GMS .47

All of mine are on planes that are flown allot except the one I just put on a new plane, but it is off a plane I gave my son in-law so I know its good, I agree some are better then others in power but as far as dead sticks none! I have OS that I find one 46 a bit better then the other! I did have a couple of new OS's that could have went on by new plane just like the GMS for the power of this one!
Old 01-20-2010, 07:50 PM
  #54  
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Default RE: Tower .46 vs GMS .47

I have never had a problem with any of the Cheap engines. The Tower .75's, Magnum .46's, .91's and so on. I am now getting ready to play with the Evolution .60NX. Any Glow engine will run if you have compression, fuel, and a good glow plug. Some maybe take a little longer to break in, but in the end if you can tune an engine, you will not have problems. I have to say that the Tower .75's have allways ran awesome out of the gate with no tinkering whatsoever.
Old 01-20-2010, 08:31 PM
  #55  
Daddyo57
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Default RE: Tower .46 vs GMS .47

I have heard the Tower engines have a different muffler, the stock GMS .47 muffler is supposedly a "tuned" muffler. I have seen others selling the GMS .47 with a muffler that looks very much like the Jett muffler and am curious how they run. As to the GMS. 47 engines, I simply cannot say enough good things about these engines. I bought 2 of them from a guy that had a pallet of them down in LA somewhere for 59 bucks each, I now wish I would have bought 6 or more! I have an old Uproar with at least 100 flights on it and I run 15% Powermaster or Byrons and never have had a deadstick from the GMS. I broke in the other GMS on a junk profile airplane with a 12.5X3.75 prop and it ran like a dream right out of the box. I also have an OS .46 that runs like a top as well but it cost more. I really want to try a GMS 1.20 and the .75 now that I know how well they run.
Old 01-20-2010, 08:34 PM
  #56  
Stamey
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Default RE: Tower .46 vs GMS .47

Yes, you must change your needle valve settings to compensate for changes in the atmosphere. I didn't say you could keep the same setting. I do appreciate OS's brand and the "quality" they produce, but for some including myself, they are just not good enough. This is where some of us have found refuge with GMS, Tower, and TT. They are reasonably priced engines for good power. I had my OS 46AX tuned properly but when I swaped the GMS with it, I got alot more power and no dead sticks to this day after over 50 flights. The OS engines in my time (this may be different for others) would give me deadsticks 1 in 5 flights. I am not saying your wrong and not trying to ***** on OS, they just don't work for me and some other pilots I know including some on here obviously. Run what works for you, bottom line. If you like to tinker, great, go for it! If you want a simple engine that has a history of being "reliable" then go with the top brand. I just know that GMS is sold out and there are plenty of OS out there for $$$. If OS would put more power in their brand and stop dinking around with FP, LA, AX, FX and just make one engine size full power (aka GMS) at a competitive price, I would buy them again. Fly and be happy, that is what we like about this sport
Old 01-20-2010, 09:24 PM
  #57  
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Default RE: Tower .46 vs GMS .47


ORIGINAL: asmund

I use high temp silicone , the red stuff (RTV).

I use a little around the carb before I insert it into the case and a little around the back plate before I put it back on. I do this on all my engines just to be sure
I also seal all glow engine's useing Permatex "Aluminum colored" High Temp RTV. I put a little on the Carb Throat before inserting the Carb, and on the back cover mating surfaces. If the engine came with a gasket, I take it out. I then check the back plate clearance without the gasket. If I need to, I will then lap the back cover with 600, and then 1000 grit. I reinstall the back cover with a little of my Aluminum colored RTV, and WAHLA, you cannot see any sealer, and I will never worry about having an air leak.
Old 01-20-2010, 09:45 PM
  #58  
jimmyjames213
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Default RE: Tower .46 vs GMS .47

i have 5 magnum engines, 3 gms, and 3 os engines
the os engines were definately the most pain. my ax55 has a horrible midrange, if you give it power it doesnt do anything for a few seconds then increases power a lot. not a big deal for most but this was for a 3d plane where it hovered right in that lagging spot making it no fun. not to menton deadsticks the first 20 flights. i eventually got it adjusted to the point where it wont deadstick but im waiting for that midrange lag to go away its in a sports plane now to get some time before i try the 3d plane (w/ gms.47 which has been a ton of fun now that i can actually trust the engine)
any engine, that is adjusted properly and had 2+ (sometimes more) gallons through it will run just fine. a lot of people blame the engine when its really them that is screwing them up.
i also love the "OOOOO NO what if i deadstick the world is going to end and my plane will crash......" get real people if you have any idea how to fly this wouldnt be a problem. sorry to be harsh but you should be able to deadstick a plane if you cant make it back to the field your flying to far out.
Old 01-20-2010, 10:23 PM
  #59  
rglgatortail
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Default RE: Tower .46 vs GMS .47


ORIGINAL: Eganwp


ORIGINAL: asmund

Eganwp.
You sound like a man who knows a thing or two about engines and should have no problems handling a Magnum/ASP XLS .52.
Seal it up and you have a reliable great runner that is much more powerfull than those GMS/Tower 46`s GUARANTEED. The XLS is one of the absolutely most powerfull ''standard'' engines out there and it is cheaper than the GMS too. (from Hong Kong at least)
It weighs in at the same weight, same physical size and you can order it today, not in months
Since you like to do a little work on them (like myself) you can get some incredible results with the XLS, mine turns APC 12-4 at 15000 rpm static (mousse can, port work, headshims) Your 11-6 would be about the same
Lol, way to throw a big wrench in my engine decision making asmund and Ed! haha. The ASP .52 XLS was actually my first choice because of it's extremely cheap price! $50 from China!!! The only problem was, I couldn't find much info on it and the few reviews I did find seemed unimpressionable. In a lot of reviews people were saying that it has a very rich bog mid range, indicating a bore size too large for the crank case. I'm not sure if this theory is entirely true or not, as I don't have enough experience with these engines to be able to agree/disagree with that statement. Maybe someone with more experience on these .52's engines can comment on that. Only reason I beg to differ is if you look at an engine like my OS 55ax which is a much larger bore in the .46 casing, it's midrange is perfect. I've never owned an ASP, nor many of the other brands to know the answer.

In my reading I did find that some versions of the .52 ASP's are real power houses though, and I too don't doubt that it would smoke a GMS .47 from some of the numbers I've seen. Problem is, I just don't have enough info to go off to know if it'll run on low-0% nitro, if the mid range is infact poor and unfixable w/ the current carb, and the engines reliability/longevity as a whole. The price sure is cheap, so maybe my next order to China I'll toss one in just play with and find out.

Anyway, I think for now I'll pick up a GMS .47 and a Tower .75 whenever they come in stock at tower. Down the road if I need another .46 size engine I think I'll try an ASP .52 just because of the price.

Lots of good info everyone's posting on this thread! I can't wait to grab a .47! Keep the information coming!

I have a magnum .52 on the front of my GP Ultra Sport 40 swinging a 11-5 apc and it turns it around high 13k i cant remember it has been too long since i tached it but the engine is a power house. The plane weighs in at 6.25 lbs and when i tried a TT .46 pro the plane would only get about maybe 300 feet and then stop, but when i change it over to the magnum .52 i have unlimited vertical, there is no way that gms or tower engines will compare to that power and the magnum is cheap right now on sale, http://www.hobbypeople.net/gallery/210760.asp . this engine breaks in easily and the customer service is great so you should consider this engine and it will bolt in the exact bolt pattern as the tower .46 or the gms .47, i also have this same plane in the picture archives here but the plane when i bought it had an os .46 which had even less power than the tt.46 but the pictures will help you see the plane!
Old 01-20-2010, 10:26 PM
  #60  
hairy46
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Default RE: Tower .46 vs GMS .47

Do not know anything about the bigger GMS engines except the 47 and 61 but they are wonderful engines and what I prefer! I find them very easy to tune, All I run is the 15% nitro because a friend sells me the fuel and thats all he buys but they run very good up here at 7000 ft! I am six for six as far as pleased!




Want to keep from crashing? take off and land higher!
Old 01-20-2010, 10:27 PM
  #61  
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Default RE: Tower .46 vs GMS .47


ORIGINAL: fly24-7

I know this response is not directly to the Tower vs. GMS, but if your looking for a good value in the the 46-55 range, you should look at the Evolution engines. I have two planes with their 46 engines and after three seasons, they're still running great. No fuss and they start without a problem. They're happy with 10-15% Omega fuel. Sells for $119. Their 52 sells for $129.
no dont get an evolution they are not all that much different than os and besides the magnum with the same amount of power for half the price and the same or better performance. and i found another engine that is cheap i have not heard this engine run but my friend has one and as soon as the weather cooperates down here he is suppose to fly it this weekend and i will report on it after then. this is suppose to be the avistar .53 so check this one out too. http://www.sigmfg.com/cgi-bin/dpsmar...FV4.html?E+Sig
Old 01-20-2010, 10:29 PM
  #62  
hairy46
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Default RE: Tower .46 vs GMS .47

Just bought my first Magnum, not even started it yet but looking forward to trying it! It is a 61, Thanks for the advice!
Old 01-20-2010, 11:35 PM
  #63  
MJD
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Default RE: Tower .46 vs GMS .47

What a surprise, this is the same go around you here with regards to every cheap engine that works for some people and not for others. "They're great, I have 37!" "They stink, I sold all mine!"

If you bought a cheap engine or 6 cheap engines and they work for you, then that is truly wonderful and I wish you tons of enjoyment from them. Really. Many products are made in lots, and even in one lot doesn't matter, parts vary esp. with careless manufacturers. Successful experiences do not prove that they are all okay. Some people will get screwed.

1. People who have GMS engines that work says they are the best value they've ever seen and you should buy one.
2. People who have GMS engines that act up says they are a cheap engine and you get what you pay for.

So.. which one is right?

No matter what engine: I trust that people who say they have problems, have problems. But you might not know whether it is the engine or the user that is the root cause. As to people that say they do not have engine problems, well, that may be the case. Or... and who hasn't seen this in one form or another.. may be so enamoured with their cheap booty that works okay, that they have a blind spot for any hassles they might have had on the way and want to be the guy that recommends the great cheap engine to his peers. But how the heck are you supposed to know?!?

Logic says #2 is correct and #1 just got lucky - either they all have messed up fuel inlets and some people don't run them hard enough - i.e. high enough fuel flow demand - to have problems, or the problems are sporadic and always occur on the bad carbs and not on the good carbs. Me, I don't care, it just shouldn't be the case.

As to people who comment on the cheap engines don't know what they are doing? That's true for a few, I'm sure. The GMS carb problem is real, there are a number of them on the market and in people's hands that do not flow fuel properly at WOT, and cut out in flight or run overlean and can't be needled rich enough. So no, you can NOT say that every engine will run fine if set up properly, that is just false. How about: every engine that does not have some stupid sporadic defect in it will run fine if set up properly..? That I can swallow.

I personally have spent time on a GMS .32 owned by another fellow who was having fits. It did exactly what all the negative reports said, the problem was exactly what others said it was, a poorly made fuel inlet/spraybar assembly. And thus, that engine as a package is crap. That engine with a working repaired carb is great, but it doesn't always come with a working carb!

For all the reports we see here, how many bad ones do we never hear about? Many times I wager, not everyone hangs out on RCU and you never hear from the vast majority of RC consumers. I wouldn't want to be the guy that gushes about something and gets several others to buy it despite all the contrary field reports, only to find out that my buddies got the same crap the other folks did.

The Thunder Tiger .46 Pro is often recommended as a good, strong running engine by RCU-dwelling folks who I believe know enough about engines to be fair and subjective.

MJD


Old 01-21-2010, 12:23 AM
  #64  
archie05
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Default RE: Tower .46 vs GMS .47

Just to throw in my 2 cents worth, I am on my third season with a Tower .46 and I have had no problems with it at all. Still runs very strong. I would buy another when the time comes.
Old 01-21-2010, 12:46 AM
  #65  
NM2K
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Default RE: Tower .46 vs GMS .47


ORIGINAL: Stamey

Yes, you must change your needle valve settings to compensate for changes in the atmosphere. I didn't say you could keep the same setting. I do appreciate OS's brand and the ''quality'' they produce, but for some including myself, they are just not good enough. This is where some of us have found refuge with GMS, Tower, and TT. They are reasonably priced engines for good power. I had my OS 46AX tuned properly but when I swaped the GMS with it, I got alot more power and no dead sticks to this day after over 50 flights. The OS engines in my time (this may be different for others) would give me deadsticks 1 in 5 flights. I am not saying your wrong and not trying to piss on OS, they just don't work for me and some other pilots I know including some on here obviously. Run what works for you, bottom line. If you like to tinker, great, go for it! If you want a simple engine that has a history of being ''reliable'' then go with the top brand. I just know that GMS is sold out and there are plenty of OS out there for $$$. If OS would put more power in their brand and stop dinking around with FP, LA, AX, FX and just make one engine size full power (aka GMS) at a competitive price, I would buy them again. Fly and be happy, that is what we like about this sport


I'm a big supporter and enthusiast of less expensive engines and I own a bunch of them, but I do still buy some of the pricier ones (just no near $300 OS four-stroke .56 engines!) in addition to the less expensive engines mentioned here in this article. However, with that said, there is something wrong with your OS .46AX if it is seriously less powerful than the GMS .47 and if it deadsticks frequently. I'd send it back to Hobby Services, if it is still under warranty AFTER doing what I am going to suggest in the next paragraph and if the problem persists.

We have a phenomenon known as "fuel foaming" in our hobby. Yes, the terminology isn't technically accurate, but the phenomenon is real and there are methods for dealing with it. Fuel foaming has killed many, many models over the decades that I have been in this hobby and it is still the main culprit for model destruction right after dumb thumbs.

Fuel foaming can occur when running one particular engine, but may not occur when running another engine on the same model, using the same prop, glow plug and fuel as the first engine. It has to do with the balance of the engine, the prop, how the mixture is set, but most of all, the resonant frequency of the model and how the fuel tank is mounted in the model (or on the model for profiles).

Just as with most things in life, there rarely are any absolutes when dealing with fuel foaming. Sometimes a couple of squirts of Armor All in a gallon of fuel will take care of the problem (shortens glow plug life somewhat). Other times, just repacking the fuel tank in the existing components/methods are all it will take. The point is, don't be afraid to move your fuel tank a bit to and fro in order to change the coupling frequency (mechanical) between the fuselage/engine/fuel tank.

I try to pack my fuel tank in loose foam (rubber - but I have used plastic foam successfully too). If I can keep any part of the fuel tank (including fuel feed and vent tubing) from touching any solid part of the model (includes not letting the fuel tank neck touch the firewall), I can pretty much be assured that fuel foaming will not occur.

So what are symptoms of fuel foaming? Forget trying to see the tiny bubbles in the fuel line. Yes, sometimes you can see them, but most times you cannot.

Since air bubbles in the fuel line force you to adjust the high speed needle richer for a suitable mixture on the ground, as soon as your model leaves the ground, the fuel foaming stops. Your needles, having been adjusted to pass more fuel because of the bubbles of fuel foaming, are now adjusted grossly rich, which can cause your engine to quit. Sometimes, it can work in reverse and can cause your engine to go super lean, overheating and eventually quitting.

If you don't lose it and waste time having a Donald Duck temper tantrum (BTDT), you can put that time to good use by adjusting your fuel tank's retention method enough to shift the mechanical coupling point between the engine and the model so that the fuel foaming will stop. Sometimes, just a simple prop change can be significant.

The one thing that will let you conquer such a problem is patience and diligence. Stick with it and get'er'done!

No, there are no engine brands that are more prone to this problem than another, so don't blame the engine.


Ed Cregger



Old 01-21-2010, 12:58 AM
  #66  
hairy46
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Default RE: Tower .46 vs GMS .47

Great post Mr. Ed Cregger, Thank you! Working on a model in the shop tonight putting in the fuel tank, Thanks again Bob
Old 01-21-2010, 09:09 AM
  #67  
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Default RE: Tower .46 vs GMS .47


ORIGINAL: MOTORMAN37

ORIGINAL: jimmyjames213


ORIGINAL: Eganwp

Thank you very much for your responses JJ and Stamey. That's exactly what I was looking for! This engine for the time being will actually being going on a H9 Mustang MKII for a semi-scale sport plane as well! I couldn't resist as I basically got the plane for free RTF after selling the dx6i. Selling the evolution .46 before i even run it, hence me looking for a cheap replacement.

I'll jump on the GMS .47 then and go with the remote needle valve to save my fingers from the inevitable tuning it that close WOT. Since I'm sealing it anyway, I doubt i'll have an issue with the remote valve.

Thanks for the RPM numbers as well. Exactly what I wanted to hear. You should try removing the other shim and going with an A3 plug. In theory if you can get the setup the same as the stock setup on 15%, you should be able to pull the same RPM #'s (+-200rpm most likely). Is you're idle okay, or do you run 3% acetone? I'm converting all my glow engines to FAI homebrew because I can get free methanol.

Thanks very much guys! <3
my engine runs no different on 0% nitro (no acetone) compared to 10% besides the rpm increase. the engine will idle all day long. dont be shooting for high rpm's/ good idle to start with let it breakin well, the engine really comes alive after a few gallons
^^^ thats why im converting, i can get methanol for $3 a gallon and castor for $23 at sigmfg.com. shipping included on the castor, im mixing 18 gallons for about 6.75 a gallon, not bad at all.
im even running a magnum .52fs and its idle isnt terrible (its only have 1/8 gallon through it) at 3000 rpm on my homebrew toip end around 10000 on a 11x7. i think nitro is a little overrated
I was wondering what kind of place would sell just plain old Methanol? I have a gallon of Sig's AAA Baker's Castor oil sitting around, and I run mostly for my Nitro birds at least, motors that like 0-5% Nitro. What does the Nitro cost you?

I live in El Paso Texas, but have been unable to locate anything on the Internet here, should I be focusing on a full size car racing supplier?

Nitro is nice to have, but I am in the same boat as you are. I can buy Methanol for $2.75 a gallon 2 miles from my house straight out of the pump (Late Model Stock car racing). I do have some Nitro too, since I have a guy a few miles away who race's a Nitro Injected Harley.
Old 01-21-2010, 09:13 AM
  #68  
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Default RE: Tower .46 vs GMS .47

Sig has the Aviastar .46's for $49.00, most reports indicate a pretty good little engine, Magnum .46 2-strokes were $49.95 at Hobby People last week, and currently the .52 4-strokes there are 1/2 price at $79.95. FYI...

Also the SK .50's with are actually .52's, have a good rep, and are $52.65 here, check the prices of the Pitts Mufflers, shipping is a little higher. I have ordered from them and got good service....

http://www.himodel.com/sort.php?sub2=CH
Old 01-21-2010, 10:58 AM
  #69  
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Default RE: Tower .46 vs GMS .47

What everyone has said PLUS my experience. Stay away from the Tower .46.
My GMS .47 screams with 10% fuel.
DO NOT get the remote needle valve setup. (You can put the needle in the carb. as I did...runs better and no more broken brackets!)
Be prepared to run about 19 gallons of fuel through it for break-in.
Run a Uni-Flo setup inside your fuel tank.
The gold on the head won't last long
Yes, I would buy another one.
Old 01-21-2010, 11:13 AM
  #70  
texasclouds
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Default RE: Tower .46 vs GMS .47

19 gallons or (19) 6 oz tanks for breakin? is that bench running before first flight? yes, i'm a nitro noobie.
Old 01-21-2010, 11:21 AM
  #71  
estradajae
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Default RE: Tower .46 vs GMS .47

19 Gallons!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Old 01-21-2010, 11:44 AM
  #72  
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Default RE: Tower .46 vs GMS .47

19 Gallons!!!!!! Are you sure you did not exagerate a little.
Old 01-21-2010, 11:57 AM
  #73  
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Default RE: Tower .46 vs GMS .47

The 2 GMS.47 I have took4 10.zo tank to get the to run good enough to mount on the plane .Then a 10oz. tank when the engines were mounted . Flew a half gallon thruit rich and then leaned them out. Not problems what so ever . I'm running cheap Tower Glow plugstoo.
I have never owned a Tower.46 ,but have been around a few and they seemed to be pretty good engines.
Old 01-21-2010, 12:15 PM
  #74  
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Default RE: Tower .46 vs GMS .47

HI ASP AND MAGNUM are the same engines (MAGNUM is the hobby lobby brand name )they are around 20 yearsthey came out when i started to fly RCthey have been copies (clones ) of OS engines and have changed there design through the years as OS has longevity speaks for the product
the break in of a two cycle glo engine and the way it is handled throughout its life-no lean runs running out the fuel after every day of flyingoiling before a period of none use all will have the effect of causing a given engine to be a good one or less than that over its life timethat is why i think some appear to be better than otherswith CNC machining the parts have a greater chance of being equal in performance unlike years ago I PERSONNALY BELIEVE all two cycle glo engines s/b run with some castor oilto protect the engine WHEN (NOT IF ) the heat rises due to an air leak that will develope some time in the future the castor will protect your engine from damage during that time or any time of excessive heat build up ENJOY REGARDS TONY
Old 01-21-2010, 12:23 PM
  #75  
Stamey
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Default RE: Tower .46 vs GMS .47

NM2K;
Thanks for your post. You have some very good info on your post for fuel problems. The engines I have are out of warrenty but thats ok. I don't want to take the time or hassel to return the engines. I will keep the info on hand in case I need it or come across the problem. Thanks

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