Lowflyer281

It was just running about 3 days ago but today i tried to start it and it just keeps on making this weird noise and wont start. I made a short video to show you
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bRvhXTD4zQ

Thanks
Mike

mike109

G'day

Basically your starter does not have enough torque to turn the engine over hard enough. The engine is firing well before the piston gets to Top Dead Centre (TDC) and this is stopping it turning further. You may be using a bit too much Nitromethane as it tends to advance the timing of the engine or the plug may be too hot which again would advance the timing. Also, if the engine is primed slightly too little, the mixture may be slightly lean and this also will advance the timing and make it harder to start.

Back in the Dark Ages, many motor cycles had a provision to retard the ignition timing for starting but with our glow engines, the timing is set by the combination of compression ratio/nitro content/plug heat.

You need either a bigger starter or battery with higher capacity at the same voltage. You may just need to charge the battery. Or you need a cooler plug or SLIGHTLY wetter prime and/or less nitro or just some more time on the engine.

What sort of engine is it? Size?

I have found that when trying to start my larger engines - and especially when they are fairly new - that is is often easier to start them by priming them (but not flooding) then using the back flip techinque with a chicken stick. My Saito 100, 120 and 150 all needed this treatment when they were new.

Mike in Oz

MJD

My Feedback: (1)

Hmm, do you think the starter might be a bit gutless for that engine..?

Can you hand start it?

MJD

Lowflyer281

The starter i am using is a Hobbico TorqMaster 180 which started the plane fine before. Also the battery is fully charged

MJD

My Feedback: (1)

Ah.. that was hard to tell from the video. That doesn't sound good then. From the vid it sounds mostly like the typical deal when the starter is too weak, or you have an elecrtical issue preventing full go from the starter.

So the question is - what happens when you try to hand prop it?

MJD

freakingfast

My Feedback: (3)

Sounds like it's hydro-locked or too much fuel in the cylinder. Take the glow plug out and spin it to clear it out, mind your eyes from spray.
If it still makes noise with the plug out.....well???????????

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

Be careful that the prop doesn't cut your right thigh

Lowflyer281

I havent tried hand starting yet, as for the starter one day it got really hot and i saw smoke so i unplugged everything and let it cool. it still seems to work though. The engine turns fine WITHOUT the glow plug installed i have cranked it many times without the glow plug until the point where no fuel comes out anymore. But i still have the same problem when i install the glow plug

vpresley

My Feedback: (162)

Hi

You might have shorted out your starter. it will draw more current and turn weaker than it did before if you did. If someone else at your Field has one, compare them side by side once, and see if there is a difference.

Vince

estradajae

For me it does not look good

I can see that the engine does not turn freely, when it is not at the compression, the prop should turn freely and bounce (I don't know how to explain it more clearly..), the prop just stays stuck.

It won't hurt to take a look at the engine internals?

aerofly0610

Whenever I flood my engines my starter doesnt turn the engine over, the piston bounces back causing my starter to 'dance' off the prop nut/spinner. The video looks more to me what happens when my starter battery looses its oomph (charge). Used to use a 12v on my torqmaster. I replaced it with 2x 7c NIMH car batter backs. 16.8v of raw power, just dont let your starter run long and your windings will stay cool. Maybe he killed his battery by too much current draw from it? Smoke could have been oil burning off the windings??? If he got the windings too hot it could have reduced their current draw, thus lessening the starters torque???

huck1199

I am surprised no one warned you about cranking the engine of an unrestrained plane.

Hobbsy

My Feedback: (102)

Go to NAPA and get a 300 amp garden tractor battery for that starter. It'lll start a SuperTigre 4500 instantly then.

goirish

Hey Hobbsyfriends don't let friends drive red tractors.. nothing runs like a deere.

MJD

My Feedback: (1)

So it seems to work fine, and spins the engine without the plug installed. When you add compression to the equation by installing the glow plug - which greatly increases the difficulty of cranking as it should - it doesn't crank the engine very well. Some time ago it got hot and smoked.

2+2= the conclusion is that your starter setup is pooched. It is hard to get past that point because the info so far points squarely at that. Esp since you say it cranks fine by hand. But you have not tried to start it by hand. Why don't you try that and get back to us?

Once you apply a starter setup that can actually crank the engine, and you still have problems, then it might be possible to offer other suggestions beyond all the obvious overprime/hydraulic lock issues you should be eliminating already anyway. To be sure one last time, remove the plug, and the fuel/muffler lines to prevent any further fuel entering the engine. Crank it for 2-3 seconds plug out to make sure the crankcase is emptied of excess fuel. Install the plug, not the fuel lines, and try again. Same thing? One more step, try hand starting it.

If you can't hand start it at all, and the starter won't crank it, it is kind of tough to home in on a diagnosis because the information is little more than "it won't start".

Won't crank, but will hand start = get a better starter or starter battery.. and one thing that is often a culprit, make sure the d- battery connections are solid, some of those banana plug affairs are total garbage from the get-go. You need several amps tp flow through those connections soan iffy cheapo banana plug like so often comes with starters is trouble. Mine come off and get Stakons. I have a starter that claims it can turn over engines up to 20cc but is no better than my old Sullivan that is going on 15 years, and can barely crank over a .65 hooked up to a 7Ah gel cell.

Won't crank, and won't hand start = too many possibilities at this point.

MJD

Hobbsy

My Feedback: (102)

I grew up milking about 120 Holstien cows and operating about 6 Farmalls. We tried a John Deere or two over the years for a week or so, I can't write here what my Dad had to say about them. I can think of only two tractors that would have drawn us away from Farmalls and those were a Ford 8000 and a Case 1030. The Ford had 401 cu. in. the Case had 451, they had identical HP ratings at 101.5 The Farmall 560 in this picture has an M&W Turbo charger on it at 83 hp.

A Sullivan DynaTron is the cure all for starters.

NM2K

My Feedback: (14)

I worked on a neighboring farm (dairy) during high school. They were Massey-Ferguson believers. My favorite was the "Big M", a Diesel. Ah, I still remember the smell of bag balm. <G>

Oh, and if the OP was in the habit of turning over engines with the starter long enough to drain a whole tank of fuel, he might want to take a look at the starter's brushes. Chances are, they need replacing. A simple chore.

Hobbsy is right too. Once you get to that humongous Hobbico starter, the only improvement after that is in ever larger batteries.


Ed Cregger

ArcticCatRider

My Feedback: (6)

You roasted your starter. Anytime you see enough heat to make something smoke chances are it's not going to function like it did before...

Hand prop it. Loosen the prop nut up and retighten so the compression starts at the "2 oclock" position, or thereabouts, wherever you feel comfortable.

Hopefully you didn't try starting the engine with a flooded case or cylinder. Sometimes when you force a starter on a flooded engine you can damage it.

A prop that big? easy to do by hand. Your starter will make a good paperweight

Warbirdguy

So, Hobbsy, you think that Farmall could crank over that engine LOL

Iflyglow

My Feedback: (79)

Get a Sulivan Dynatron starter. Your Hobbico starter is toast. You also need a good battery. A 7 amp hour gell cell will work fine.

asmund

I have the Dynatron and I run it from a relatively small 4 cell 1550 mah lipo battery. It starts everything and you COULD carry the battery in the pockes of your pants, no more big and heavy lead batteries for me thank you very much

If even more power is needed it can handle a bigger 6 cell that also will be very easy to carry (not in your pants though)[8D]

Iflyglow

My Feedback: (79)

Make sure you keep it away from your keys.[X(]

MJD

My Feedback: (1)

Shorting that out would be worse than a pack of firecrackers going off in your pocket.. [:-]. Far more potential energy.

A few guys around here are going the 4S LiPO route with their starters, and liking the convenience and results.

MJD

asmund

Yeah, I know all about shorting these batteries, I have blown up some old and worn lipos before, it sure is spectacular and potentially very dangerous[X(] I keep all my lipos in a safe place in a empty .50 caliber ammobox, just in case[X(]

About carrying them in the pockets, it was only ment to describe the portability of these batteries, I don`t actually do that of course


I edited my first reply to avoid any unwanted hazardious use of lipos

Wonder

My Feedback: (7)

Goirish is right, nothing runs like a deere, when chased by a Kubota!!!
And, if it is red, leave it in the shed.