RCER88

My Feedback: (25)

In this hobby to each his own. But here is some facts:

Glow fuel $25.00 a gallon 10 oz tank 12 flights.
Starting battery $25.00
Glow plugs 4.00 to 8.00 a piece. a lean run by plug
Flight box $40.00
starter $20.00
Glow engine 89.00 to 300.00 My Rossi 45 is $169.00
not including all the other tools and odds and ends you have to deal with from vibration.

I think everyone can agree for the most part correct?

Brushless Electric motor $31.99
60 Amp speed control $30.00
6s lipo battery charger I paid $50.00 for mine same model now $24.00
Lipo battery 5s 20c 3000mah $24.00. each caught on sale

Now Apples to Apples two airplanes. The Sig Kougar. I have two one glow with the Rossi 45 listed above. one electric. My electric has BETTER perfomance than my Glow. Reason it is a HALF pound lighter. Battery in the electric no fuel in the glow. Same prop size. 10x6. I could burn a gallon of fuel in two days of flying (one weekend) then it cost another $25.00. So I have two 3000Mah batteries. I have flown that airplane with NO additional expense. for two years now and going strong. The prop noise of my electric has even impressed some of the most hard core glow guys. Especially in spins and stalls, so I completely disagree that you cannot get the same perfomance from electric. I can penetrate the wind just as well and have better vertical. Our field you can not fly glow or gas before 9am or after 9pm. I can fly electrics as long as there is enough light to safely see it.

I do not have to drag all that additional gear to field to fly a Kougar. A box of batteries with the charger with spare props. (which plugs into the cigarette lighter or with the other cord under the hood directly to my car battery.) I can easily do the same amount of flying.

I can replace my electric motor for less than a piston/sleeve would cost for my Rossi. See I have to look at overall expense to get optimum bang for my buck.

On a tight budget that is great. I have glow and always will but will only keep the motors I can run on no nitro (like my Rossi's). I also have a couple of gas airplanes They require less field stuff than my glow too. Less mess and slime.

I am current converting a Regal eagle ducted fan and a JHH Mirage DF to electric. Under $100.00 in price for both so far. Looking at a grand total of under $200.00 including lipos. Should get two seasons or more of flying before even have to worry about replacing lipos. But even then I can replace lipos for the less than what I would burn in glow in two to three sessions and not have a slimy mess accept for the grass stains from the runway.

Personal Preference.

I am Disabled the less trips carrying heavy stuff the better. I have only dragged all my glow stuff to the field once this season. I fly the gas and electric more.

Not bragging here. Stating FACTS based on actually DOING IT! I have done my homework and know because I been there done that!

albsurfer

Yes, you can get BioEthanol engines, but... they have about 1/2 the horsepower of a nitro engine and you have to use the OS Bio Fuel. Now, knowing OS, how much do you think you'll save with BioEthanol? ZIP... The info has been on the OS Japan site for quite a while now.
The correct figures for the 75AXBE are:
Output 1.2ps/10,000r.p.m.
Practical r.p.m.Range 2,300-10,000r.p.m.
Not what Keimod.com lists them as being.

NM2K

My Feedback: (14)

"Yes, you can get BioEthanol engines, but... they have about 1/2 the horsepower of a nitro engine and you have to use the OS Bio Fuel."


And why would you have to burn OS Bio Fuel? From what I understand, the glow plugs were tailored to stay lit while burning ethanol instead of methanol. I don't know how available pure ethanol is, but it is probably much more available in the US than the special OS fuel.


Ed Cregger

103/17

As far as the cost on glow fuel, our club has purchased 15% synthetic with 20% oil, shipped to our door on pallets for $14.00 a gallon for the last 3 years. Our club buys it in the spring or the fall and we purchase a minimum of 20 cases ( usually 40+ ) at a time to get the deal. The power advantage of Glow over Gas is big enough that I can't logically make the switch.

103/17

Sport_Pilot

All Idid was point out the volume prices. My statement was true. You changed the subject slightly by stating the total energy price. However that is not the total story. In small engines the power per unit size is important, that is why 1/2A engines use so much nitro. Because of this all the gas engine will do is put put around the sky, or the engine will weigh too much. The extra weight is not a big problem with large planes, but it is important in small planes.

Lifer

My Feedback: (1)

For the past 15 or 20 years I have been buying my fuel in bulk from Ritches Hobbies in Houston. Usually, I got 20 cases at a time and I paid the shipping and had it dropped off at a friend's place of business that could receive incoming freight during normal business hours. Worked with Randy Ritch and he would mix fuel of any precentages of nitro and oil, with my choice of oil. His price was REALLY competitive with the hobby shops in my area, particularly when bought in 20-case lots.

Randy, and his father Dickie used to supply the fuel to all the pylon races in Texas back in the Eighties so I had a lot of experience using his fuel and when I met him it was clear that he was an avid supporter of the hobby. I would recommend doing business with him (Ritches Hobbies).

I'm slowly converting to gasoline, so the remaining 12 or so cases of his fuel should reasonably last me the rest of my modeling life.

HFrank

And me too !!

Waco

My Feedback: (265)

That has been true in the pass but now things are changing, This new DLE 20cc weighs in at under 30 oz. and that includes the muffler and ignition, and the video I saw of it flying a 120 size plane was quite impressive. Aeroworks put the DLE in their 60/90 300 and they said it was impressive to say the least. I think in the years to come you will see more small powerful gas engines come to market.

103/17

Apples to apples with two of the same sized engines of the same design dyno fuel consumption will usually show a 20 to 30 percent increase in fuel consumption when running on alcohol over gas. Yes.... you will burn more glow fuel as compared to gas when all things are considered equal except for the fuel itself. Smaller engines use less fuel that in most cases is also correct with all things considered equal except the size.

Alcohol produces more power. In applications where gas enignes are converted for racing purposes to alcohol you can expect at least a 20% increase in power.

Its hard for us to truly compare our current gas enies and the current glow engines head to head for the simple fact that the glow enines for the most part are of a higher performance design. Most glow engines use a far superior rotary intake design where as the gas engines use either a piston port set up or reed with the exception of only a fews designs. This means that the gas engines are handicapped right out of the gate with symetrical port timing before you even start the comparison. Glow enines also tend to rev higher which enable them to get to higher HP numbers as well. Truthfully the gas engines I see on the market, even the ones that most in the hobby consider "high performance" designs fall far short of serious perfomance designs. The 20HP per 100cc rule has been a benchmark for good durable HP output for years. Most of our aero engines today are only at half of that...................????? YIKES

I want a real ignition system instead of these cruddy little 2 degree systems we see. Give me a boost port in the back of the cylinder. Give me a rotary intake system. Give me a flat top piston with a bridged exhaust port, Give me exhaust port timing at something better than a cruddy 150 degrees ........ I guess I will switch to gas when they stop selling junk and we start to see some real engines for sale. Sure they wont be sold for 200 bucks like the chinese low end stuff that has flooded the market but I'm up for paying $400 for a real gas engine of 20 to 30cc. I want a decent gas engine and then I will make more of a switch to gas from glow.

103/17

bogbeagle

We've had a few of this type at our field.

Seems to me that they are very noisy, though... and difficult to silence, without losing power and adding a lot of bulk.

Certainly, even a Zenoah 26 is much too noisy for many UK fields. The one that I tested, with stock exhaust and recommended prop, was developing @92dBA. The normal UK' "limit" is 82 dBA, so the Zenoah is several times as noisy as recommended. Incidentally, I measured its output at exactly 1.5 hp.

It's a conundrum.

103/17

82 BDa ??????? Are you kidding me? Wow. Our street bikes in NH are allowed to be 103 DBa and pass inspection !!!!!! We have an unofficial noise limit of 98 at our field, but we havent had anything over that. At 82 how do you even run an OS .91 four stroke???? Our sound meter ( we paid like 750 bucks with the standard ) records my .91 OS four stroke at 96DBa with the stock muffler in our sound test pit.......................

YIKES, you guys in the UK will be all electric soon huh?

103/17

tadawson

On the 82dBa, he didn't say at what distance . . . so that may not be as restrictive as you think . . .

- Tim

bogbeagle

Forgot that bit. Yes, it's measured at 7 metres and four Cardinal Points.

82 is very hard to achieve. My .40 and .45 -sized four strokes will meet this without adaptation. But, I should add that my "club" takes bog-all notice of such restrictions ... which are only "recommendations" from the BMFA, an organisation which has no regulatory power. I also think that most serious flyers just ignore the 82dBA stuff.

One local club has voluntarily (?) adopted 80dBA. Even some electric planes are failing to meet this limit and I know people who have loads of aircraft which they simply cannot use.

gkamysz

My Feedback: (19)

I've actually been flying glow four strokes converted to spark ignition on various fuels. Have you?

andboy

My Feedback: (4)

I started with electric planes, but have since gone exclusively with glow. Too much hassle.

Yes, electric is cleaner, quieter (most of the time). The outlay is more expensive. Glow engines / fuel won't ignite without an ignition source. You can continually fly with glow, no charging or swapping of batteries, etc. etc.

Gasoline smells horrible.

Who knows where the future lies, myself (newish - 7 years in the hobby) will be sticking with glow.

Finally, what do you prefer, the smell of burning LiPo's / ESC / Silicon vs the 2 stroke smell of weedwacking vs the good old castor smell!!

NM2K

My Feedback: (14)

Ever since folks began gasoline/petrol burning engines in R/C (seventies), folks have been looking for an engine that would fly a sixty sized (glow) model satisfactorily. This is nothing new.

Why?

Cheaper - Fuel
Paint
Ignition plugs (common $2 spark plugs will do)

No hobbyshop needed with their ridiculously high prices.

I hear some of you professional folks snearing at the thought of someone having to be concerned with spending less money. Well, unlike in other parts of the world, our common folks are generally those that participate in our R/C hobbies. Our "elite" folks in the USA look down upon anything or anyone that would dirty themselves by playing with toys.


Ed Cregger

103/17

I prefer the smell of Castor without a doubt..............

103/17

Broken Wings

My Feedback: (20)

What are you talking about?... [sm=confused.gif]

What's wrong with supporting your local Hobby Shop? I'm real happy to have one to go to. I support them whenever I can.

"professional folks snearing", Our "elite" folks in the USA look down upon anything or anyone that would dirty themselves by playing with toys" .....[sm=what_smile.gif]
??? Did you have a bad day?

Check out "Top Gun" or "Jets over (insert location here)" or any of the AMA events. You don't think "professionals or "elite" folks fly RC models?....

Anyone can enjoy RC these days. It's never been cheaper to fly a RC model. You can buy a RC model airplane at Wally World...

It's a hobby that ANYONE can enjoy.

In my experience it's been the exact OPPOSITE.

Kweasel

My Feedback: (29)

Take a look at the performance/weight of a Syssa with an tuned pipe. They are not cheap, at least $500 for the same power/weight as an OS 160 with muffler. Small high HP stostrokes make their numbers with high rpm. None of the technical aspects mentioned above apply to low rpm aircraft engines.

NM2K

My Feedback: (14)

When I was younger, I would have been on your side of the argument. But now, I just lay back and putt around. And sometimes after that, I go flying. (smile)

I could care less about having the most powerful engine in my model. Besides, if you worry about horsepower, then you have to worry about weight and I refuse to be bothered weighing every piece of this or that that goes into my models. If that pleases you, then you fly that way, but I'll bet there are a lot of we old timers that could really care less about that sort of thing. And don't be so danged sure that you young'uns (yes, I'm assuming you are young and I'll probably pay for that mistake) out number we old farts just yet.


Ed Cregger


Addendum: Oh and there is one more thing that I keep forgetting to write. When moving away from alcohol based fuel to pure gasoline, if you can find it, you then have all of Wal-Mart and Target to shop for paint at ridiculously low prices, instead of that joke for fuel proof painting that never is and which never matches the covering you bought for just that purpose.

rcrick10

My Feedback: (1)

here's your answer. http://www.hobbypeople.net/gallery/210550.asp i have not purchased one yet but it's on my list.

NM2K

My Feedback: (14)

*** Modification:

I had one on backorder, but I'm cancelling the order. I don't like waiting this long after ordering with assurance that delivery would be soon.

I have no bone to pick with Hobby People. I'll probably get one later or convert one of my glow XLS .52 two-strokes later, since I already have some ignition units around the shop that aren't employed. In fact, I think that converting my Enya 80-4C would result in me having a more useful engine than a smaller two-stroke.


Ed Cregger

Srewinkel

Just a small comparison of electric to glow here. I flew my 40 size twist with an os 70 surpass on 10 oz of fuel for 15 mins. not just putting around, but doing hovers and other 3d manuevers.. With the electric guys only staying in the air for 5-7 mins, then having to change batteries, or sit and recharge. I have attempted, and don't suggest, landed refuel and take off with out ever shutting the engine down. so you kind of need to compare flight time when comparing cost between electric and glow.

The fact is to each his own..

rcflip

Why don't you build a tanker and refuel mid flight.

bogbeagle

I do remember early electric helicopters with trailing leads to huge lead-acid batteries.

Why don't electric planes have little wind-generators on them, so that they can top up their batteries as they fly along?