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glowfuel 01-05-2013 08:14 AM

Ringed 2 Stroke Break In
 
Ringed 2 Stroke Break-in



What is the best way to break-in an O.S. 95 AX ringed engine? There seems to be a lot of new information out there.

Also, what would be the best fuel brand to use in this particular engine? % of nitro??

Was looking at some of the synthetic fuels, but don't know if they will work, as well as, castor based fuels.

Thanks in advance,

glowfuel

jester_s1 01-05-2013 09:11 AM

RE: Ringed 2 Stroke Break In
 
It'll run whatever commercially made fuel you want to use in it between 0-20% nitro. 10% works well for most applications. Buy the cheaper 0% or 5% nitro fuel for break ins since you aren't going to be worried about horsepower or getting a good idle during that first gallon.

Your owners manual tells you how to break the engine in, and there's not much more to it than that. Do let it cool all the way between the initial runs to avoid glazing the cylinder and don't get in a hurry to lean the mix. I'll suggest not using any synthetic oil in your break in runs because its improved lubricity will actually delay seating the ring. You can fly the plane when it will hold a steady rpm at 1k rpm rich and idle reliably at a low enough speed that you are able to land the plane.

jeffie8696 01-05-2013 10:24 AM

RE: Ringed 2 Stroke Break In
 
I am sure as with all ringed break in procedures you want to run the engine sloppy rich on the high speed needle, no need to worry about a tapered cylinder.

downunder 01-05-2013 06:20 PM

RE: Ringed 2 Stroke Break In
 
The break in procedures given in the 95AX manual are reasonable if you're in a hurry but personally I'd extend them a bit. Most ringed engines will take about 2 hours before they're run in enough for brisk flying but are flyable after maybe 30 minutes if kept rich. By rich I mean just into a clean 2 stroke. Personally I run them in on a test stand for at least an hour using 25% all castor fuel starting with the first tank as rich as it can stay running without glow power then slowly leaning out until at the end of an hour it's just beginning to break into a 2 stroke. Strangely, this is where the ring carries the heaviest loads because the 4 stroking firing cycle has much higher pressure than when 2 stroking!

JeffH 01-14-2013 12:36 PM

RE: Ringed 2 Stroke Break In
 
I would hook it to a gallon jug of 10% and let it run right at the 2-4 stroke break. About every 2-3 minutes lean it to a full two stroke for about 30 seconds, then richen back to the 2-4 break. After 30 min, shut it down, let it cool and do it again until the gallon is gone.

BarracudaHockey 01-14-2013 12:42 PM

RE: Ringed 2 Stroke Break In
 
Sounds like a waste of perfectly good fuel to me personally.

Fly it slightly rich.

jeffie8696 01-14-2013 04:58 PM

RE: Ringed 2 Stroke Break In
 
It might make for a good break in if a bit expensive. If Ican get an engine to idle and transition properly after a couple of tanks at the proper break in setting I like to fly it conservatively for the first gallon, more conservative at the beginning of the gallon till Iget the feel for it.
After that they have all seemed to transform and run really well, I am always astounded at how different they run after the first gallon.

1QwkSport2.5r 01-14-2013 07:46 PM

RE: Ringed 2 Stroke Break In
 
I probably go overboard, but I spend a lot of time and burn some fuel to get an engine broke in relatively slowly. I mix my own glow fuel pretty cheaply, so I don't care if I burn a gallon on the bench. I still keep the carb a bit rich after the bench runs, but I am more trusting of the engine with some time on it versus just 2-4 tanks of fuel. That's just me though.

Some of my engines I would never even think of flying until they had 2-3 gallons of fuel through them. My SuperTigre S90K was a good example - it throttled pretty poorly and quit on a regular basis until it got a couple gallons on it. I have been running it on one of my airboats and I found myself having to retrieve the boat on numerous occasions because it would randomly quit. It runs like a Swiss watch now.


blw 01-14-2013 08:53 PM

RE: Ringed 2 Stroke Break In
 
It's all about enjoyment.

jeffie8696 01-15-2013 07:21 AM

RE: Ringed 2 Stroke Break In
 
Ihave to agree, if it wouldnt respond properly Iwould never fly it until it did.

Sport_Pilot 01-15-2013 11:47 AM

RE: Ringed 2 Stroke Break In
 
Quote:

avoid glazing the cylinder
Never heard of anyone doing that with a glow engine, other than racers using very high nitro fuel.

Sport_Pilot 01-15-2013 11:49 AM

RE: Ringed 2 Stroke Break In
 

Quote:

ORIGINAL: downunder

The break in procedures given in the 95AX manual are reasonable if you're in a hurry but personally I'd extend them a bit. Most ringed engines will take about 2 hours before they're run in enough for brisk flying but are flyable after maybe 30 minutes if kept rich. By rich I mean just into a clean 2 stroke. Personally I run them in on a test stand for at least an hour using 25% all castor fuel starting with the first tank as rich as it can stay running without glow power then slowly leaning out until at the end of an hour it's just beginning to break into a 2 stroke. Strangely, this is where the ring carries the heaviest loads because the 4 stroking firing cycle has much higher pressure than when 2 stroking!

Well this is an OS and they break in very quick. If you break it in as long as a Fox or Enya then they will be worn out before you fly it.

MJD 01-15-2013 01:09 PM

RE: Ringed 2 Stroke Break In
 
Q: How do I learn every possible method of breaking in an engine and end up wondering how to proceed?

A: Ask how to break in an engine on a public forum.

[8D]

ronwc 01-15-2013 03:36 PM

RE: Ringed 2 Stroke Break In
 
1 Attachment(s)

Quote:

ORIGINAL: BarracudaHockey

Sounds like a waste of perfectly good fuel to me personally.

Fly it slightly rich.
Amen to that.

I crank a new engine, open it up, adjust rich, take off and fly. I usually don't speed more than a minute on the ground - waste of fuel, less cooling and more dirt. If it happens to cut off, which is rare, I land.

blw 01-15-2013 06:55 PM

RE: Ringed 2 Stroke Break In
 
Quote:

Sport Pilot

Well this is an OS and they break in very quick. If you break it in as long as a Fox or Enya then they will be worn out before you fly it.
Every engine model breaks in differently. You can treat every engine individually, imo.

I don't know the 'correct' way to break in engines. I know how I do it.

asmund 01-16-2013 01:54 AM

RE: Ringed 2 Stroke Break In
 
I used to believe in a fairly long running-in on the ground when I was less experienced. Over the years I do as the above, adjust the carb a little rich on the low end so it throttles ok, then good and rich on the high speed needle (not so rich it quits or have too little power to fly safely) and fly. Gradually leaning to full power after a few tanks. This goes for ABC type engines

Ringed engines I give the standard sloppy rich running of about one tankfull, then I do as above.

It is that easy really.

Let me add that I do not own Fox, Super Tiger or lapped steel piston engines and such, that require gallons of fuel to grind all mating surfaces to seal to compensate for rough and inaccurate tolerances.

BarracudaHockey 01-16-2013 06:03 AM

RE: Ringed 2 Stroke Break In
 
I'm curious, what do you believe sloppy rich running does for a ringed engine?

jaka 01-16-2013 06:23 AM

RE: Ringed 2 Stroke Break In
 
Hi!
It makes the ring seat in the cylinder without rubbing against the cylinder walls too much, producing excessive heat and friction!
That easy!

But...All modern ringed engines can just as well be run a little rich and flown right away just from the start! No long running in periods are needed.

asmund 01-16-2013 07:12 AM

RE: Ringed 2 Stroke Break In
 
Yepp, but I like to be safe than sorry, so I give the ringed ones this first sloppy rich tankfull, it only takes 6-7 minutes anyway:)

BarracudaHockey 01-16-2013 07:47 AM

RE: Ringed 2 Stroke Break In
 
Gotcha, I was always under the impression that over lubricating when breaking in just meant that the ring/sleeve wouldn't reach operating temp which would just prolong the break in period.

Turk1 01-16-2013 09:42 AM

RE: Ringed 2 Stroke Break In
 
All kind of ringed engines should run under load and cooling phases periodically for break in. This is the trick. Run short under load to make ring (s) press onto liner wall then give it cooling(rich idling).To run a ringed engine under a fixed speed is the worst thing to make during break in .

blw 01-16-2013 09:47 AM

RE: Ringed 2 Stroke Break In
 

Quote:

ORIGINAL: BarracudaHockey

Gotcha, I was always under the impression that over lubricating when breaking in just meant that the ring/sleeve wouldn't reach operating temp which would just prolong the break in period.
Saitos break in well following the instructions to run them sloppy rich the first 10 minutes. I think it's clear that Saito uses a very hard chrome process on the cylinder walls.

MJD 01-16-2013 01:07 PM

RE: Ringed 2 Stroke Break In
 

Quote:

ORIGINAL: Turk1

All kind of ringed engines should run under load and cooling phases periodically for break in. This is the trick. Run short under load to make ring (s) press onto liner wall then give it cooling(rich idling).To run a ringed engine under a fixed speed is the worst thing to make during break in .

The advice I lived by for ages is to prop the engine very lightly (as in underprop) and start with a very rich setting, heat on if required, for the first few minutes. Then repeated runs smoky 4c rich, extra oil a good thing, allowing the engine to operate under lighter shaft load but near operating rpm with lots of lubrication and cooling. And to heat cycle the engine via shorter runs, 3-5 minutes or so, allowing it to cool between runs.

But.. truth is I have not purchased a ringed engine in 2 decades + .. except for a Moki 2.10 I just snagged but have not run yet.

Does this procedure make any sense with modern ringed engines with a plated bore?

1QwkSport2.5r 01-16-2013 02:10 PM

RE: Ringed 2 Stroke Break In
 
I don't think prop load matters too much on ringed engines since most ringed engines don't have much of a tapered liner if at all. I run mine as rich as they will run without the glow driver on for one tank. Subsequent tanks leaning down in small increments. By tank 4 I'm at the 2/4 break and at that point I run 15-20 seconds in a 2-stroke run and back to 4-cycle run for 30 seconds. Doing this over 1-2 tanks. After this I run it in a rich 2-stroke gradually leaning down over 2-3 more tanks. At this point I will run it about 500-600rpm rich of peak. I've only had one engine that needed to be ran 800-1000rich to not sag and quit.

I like to get an hour to hour and a half of run time before I trust the engine to not quit; this goes for ringed and lapped engines only. Overkill? Probably. I am a patient guy and would rather take it slow and not rush it.

Sport_Pilot 01-16-2013 02:41 PM

RE: Ringed 2 Stroke Break In
 

Quote:

ORIGINAL: asmund

I used to believe in a fairly long running-in on the ground when I was less experienced. Over the years I do as the above, adjust the carb a little rich on the low end so it throttles ok, then good and rich on the high speed needle (not so rich it quits or have too little power to fly safely) and fly. Gradually leaning to full power after a few tanks. This goes for ABC type engines

Ringed engines I give the standard sloppy rich running of about one tankfull, then I do as above.

It is that easy really.

Let me add that I do not own Fox, Super Tiger or lapped steel piston engines and such, that require gallons of fuel to grind all mating surfaces to seal to compensate for rough and inaccurate tolerances.

Since when did Fox, Super Tiger or lapped steel engines require gallons to break in? The Fox takes a little longer than most other ringed engines but run good after several tanks though some older engines took longer. A lapped steel engine brakes in after about 3 tanks or so.


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