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-   -   The Enya 1.20R vs. the Saito 1.20 (http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/glow-engines-114/1711295-enya-1-20r-vs-saito-1-20-a.html)

flytaildragger 04-11-2004 12:44 AM

The Enya 1.20R vs. the Saito 1.20
 
I am looking for the Enya 4 Stroke fans out there. I am going to purchase the 1.20R and want to know what the difference is between the Standard 1.20 and the 1.20R. Does anyone have an opinion how the muscle difference between the Saito 120 and the Enya is.

dustbin 04-11-2004 08:01 AM

RE: The Enya 1.20R vs. the Saito 1.20
 
Greetings,
The ENYA 1.20R is a very robust engine. Mine is about ten years old and still runs good (Needs new bearings, tho). My buddy flys LASERS and SAITOS and IMO the SAITO just might have the edge over the ENYA.

It WILL work with LOTS of nitro or a pump (or are you already looking at the pumped version?). Mine is the air*#11x one[:'(]. Took me a while to get the bugs out, but it IS a strong running engine.

Pete

William Robison 04-11-2004 12:34 PM

RE: The Enya 1.20R vs. the Saito 1.20
 
Draggiing Tail:

Gus, consider the Enya to be your old beater, a sedan that's always ready to go when you are. Nothing spectacular, but you always get there.

The Saito would then be your hot Camaro Vee eight. It always gets you there too, but does it in a more sporting manner.

Neither is the basic Honda front wheel drive roller skate, but neither one is a Ferrari either.

Bill.

flytaildragger 04-16-2004 11:20 AM

RE: The Enya 1.20R vs. the Saito 1.20
 
Thanks for your input, I just read another thread on comparisons for the Enya fourstrokes and was impressed with all the opinions. It still remains though, does anyone out there know the difference between the 120 and the 120R?

impactiq 04-16-2004 05:10 PM

RE: The Enya 1.20R vs. the Saito 1.20
 
I believe the Enya 120R was the hotter of the two engines. If my memory serves me correct, the "R" was for racing. It was designed more for performance than the standard Enya 4 stroke engines.

seanychen 04-16-2004 11:16 PM

RE: The Enya 1.20R vs. the Saito 1.20
 
"R" stands for reversible. My 155R includes instruction to make it run reverse. All it takes is to re-install the valve cam at a different angle.

impactiq 04-16-2004 11:25 PM

RE: The Enya 1.20R vs. the Saito 1.20
 
I guess my memory is not so good;)

walleyevision 04-19-2004 07:17 PM

RE: The Enya 1.20R vs. the Saito 1.20
 
If you are interested in the Enya 120, you might as well look at the 155. Basicaly the same mount.

MikeSell 04-19-2004 09:17 PM

RE: The Enya 1.20R vs. the Saito 1.20
 
I have a 120R and the case is large. I was told the the 120 was based on the .91 case and was smaller and lighter. The R does not stand for reversable as all enya fourstrokes have two cams that can be adjusted to run reverse. The R does stand for a more powerful engine. An old R/C report claimed 16-6 zinger at 8600

donkey doctor 04-19-2004 11:52 PM

RE: The Enya 1.20R vs. the Saito 1.20
 
Hello; I have owned and used both the Saito 120 and teh Enya 120 ( which I regret having sold) I prefer the Saito. Easier handling easier starting, nicer sound. I also liked the Enya, it was okay with old fuel, even FAI fuel, it didn't like the spinning moves, and would die on me if I tried to spin it more then about 3 turns.

I sold the Enya 120 to a close friend who has had great service from it in his big beaver. I regret having sold it but it has a good home now.

The Saito has been in an Extra 300, an Ultimate, and is now in a 1/4 scale spacewalker. It has been great, I can spin it all the way to the ground and it'll still be running. It has quite a bit of low speed power, and it's fun to swing a big prop slowly.

I'd buy them both, you can't go wrong.

flytaildragger 04-20-2004 10:25 AM

RE: The Enya 1.20R vs. the Saito 1.20
 
Well fellow RC'ers. All of the input has been great and it solidified my decisions to purchase the 1.20R primarily because it is $175.00 verses the higher expense of both the Saito and the 1.55 Enya. I think the 1.55 is up past $400. A friend has the Enya 1.20 new in the box so it sounds like it would be an excellent choice to put in the "GiantScale Planes" Zero. This Zero appears to have better scale lines than the World Models copy. I believe the Wingspan is 72". Thanks

Sport Flyer 05-05-2004 12:41 PM

RE: The Enya 1.20R vs. the Saito 1.20
 
Donkey Doctor said regarding his Enya 120:
Quote:

...it didn't like the spinning moves, and would die on me if I tried to spin it more then about 3 turns.
Interesting. My 90 4C also dies on hot days when you get the airframe spinning more than a couple of revolutions. Purrs like a tiger otherwise, though.

Dustbin said regarding his Enya 120:
Quote:

Took me a while to get the bugs out, but it IS a strong running engine.
I'm just trying to get a 120R (bought used) setup in my GB Extra but am having a hard time with the transitions. I'm using a 16x6 Dynathrust prop which it will turn easily at 9.4k on 10% Sig 4-stroke fuel however the idle is not reliable and it will often die when throttled back.

What setup tips are recommended for this engine?


Thanks in advance,
Kelly

dustbin 05-16-2004 12:08 PM

RE: The Enya 1.20R vs. the Saito 1.20
 
Quote:

ORIGINAL: Sport Flyer

Donkey Doctor said regarding his Enya 120:
Quote:

...it didn't like the spinning moves, and would die on me if I tried to spin it more then about 3 turns.
Interesting. My 90 4C also dies on hot days when you get the airframe spinning more than a couple of revolutions. Purrs like a tiger otherwise, though.

Dustbin said regarding his Enya 120:
Quote:

Took me a while to get the bugs out, but it IS a strong running engine.
I'm just trying to get a 120R (bought used) setup in my GB Extra but am having a hard time with the transitions. I'm using a 16x6 Dynathrust prop which it will turn easily at 9.4k on 10% Sig 4-stroke fuel however the idle is not reliable and it will often die when throttled back.

What setup tips are recommended for this engine?


Thanks in advance,
Kelly

Exactly the problems I had/have. Started by making sure ALL case parts were sealed (new gaskets plus sealer) - no real help. Then I drilled out the airbleed hole and used muffler pressure - sounds like a contradiction but it really helped. The airbleed carb has a relatively large orifice and the small airbleed hole (stock) would let the idle load up. Some other users have suggested using the PERRY/VARSANE P-20 Oscilating pump which I have but not yet tried and on-board glow driver.

Switching from SIG 10% to a 15% FRESH fuel (don't want to start a fuel war here;)) also showed a definite improvement.

regards, Pete

flytaildragger 05-16-2004 01:00 PM

RE: The Enya 1.20R vs. the Saito 1.20
 
I have finally figured out what the difference between the 1.20 and the 1.20R is. Recently, after talking to the previous owner, he said a stock 1.20 mount didn't accept the 1.20R. It was mentioned earlier about the larger crankcase. A larger crankcase ususally indicates a longer stroke. Hence the 1.20R is an engine with more power and torque because it is stroked different. How does that conclusion set with the rest of you?

William Robison 05-16-2004 01:46 PM

RE: The Enya 1.20R vs. the Saito 1.20
 
Fly:

Horsepower is a function of both torque and rpm. The 120R may well have higher torque and lower hp, if it is limited to a lower rpm than the 120. It's also possible they both have the same gross power, with the 120 running at a higher speed than the 120R.

For our use in model planes horsepower is usually meaningless, the higher torque being more powerful in effect, whether the hp numbers agree or not.

Bill.

flytaildragger 05-16-2004 01:56 PM

RE: The Enya 1.20R vs. the Saito 1.20
 
Will;
I examined the spec chart that came with the engine in the box, and the HP rating is higher for the R model. Interesting your comment. Based on those facts and given that it is true the R is more powerful than the Standard 1.20, what else besides the stroke could have been done on the redesign of the R model to increase it's horsepower rating? Logic would dictate and I agree that the motor should turn less RPM than the standard if everything else is the same. So what else has to be different in the engine to make it more powerful cause the RPM ratings are also similiar.

William Robison 05-16-2004 02:57 PM

RE: The Enya 1.20R vs. the Saito 1.20
 
Gus:

If the rev limit is the same, the engine with more torque will also have more horsepower. That is a matter of definition.

I wont go into the math, you can look it up if you wish, but either raising the torque at a given rpm, or raising the rpm where the torque peaks, will raise the hp.

There is essentially no difference in the crankshaft, connecting rod, and piston between the 1.20 10K rpm four stroke and the 1.20 18K rpm two stroke. The rpm limits for these parts are approximately the same. The valve gear on the 4s makes the difference.

Again not getting technical, but there are two things that limit the operating speed for the valve gear. The first is easy to picture; valve float. This is when the valve springs aren't strong enough to push the valves shut as fast as the cam wants them to close, they stay open too long and upset the valve timing. The springs are selected to allow operation in the desired rpm range without overloading the valve gear. Which brings us to the second point. Materials failure and wear. The float rpm can be raised by using sstronger springs, but that also makes everything work harder, increasing both wear and probability of component failure.

I'll close this with an extreme comparison. Your lawn mower has a 3.5 hp engine, it's big and heavy, runs at 1800 rpm. And your XLS 91 Magnum 2s is also 3.5 hp, but it gets its power at 16,000 rpm. Same gross power, but the two engines are not usable one in place of the other.

Bill.

saltburn 06-15-2004 06:18 PM

RE: The Enya 1.20R vs. the Saito 1.20
 
I have owned Enya 4-strokes for over 25 years, still flying a 1/5 scale Tiger Moth with an original 120. I also have Saitos up to a 300 twin. The 120 and R120 have the same bore and stroke, 31 x 26.4 mm, but the larger case allows the R120 to use bigger inlet and outlet ports for better breathing and hence more power. Enya claim 1.6 and 2.1 HP. Since the 1.55 is in the same case as the R120, but has bigger bore and stroke, why buy a 120? Same can be said for the Saito 120, 150 and 180. The Enya carb is it's weakness with only an air bleed to control low speed mixture, it is a case of needing a bit of patience to match the prop size, fuel (I lprefer Byrons 15% 4-stroke mix) and carb settings to the model. Once the correct settings have been found, I have found the engines very reliable. Also spares for Enyas are difficult compared with Saito which are much easier to find.
As primarily a builder of scale models from scratch I like the Enyas because with the valve gear located behind the cylinder, it is often easier to conceal the engine in a scale cowl or behind a dummy radial. However I like the brute power and better carb of the Saito 180, and would use that in a sport model in preference to the 155 Enya. I used a 180 in a 1/4 scale Sopwith 1 1/2 Strutter, but had to add a prop spacer to keep the engine behind the scale dummy radial.

Phil Heller 06-15-2004 07:31 PM

RE: The Enya 1.20R vs. the Saito 1.20
 
I have an Enya 80, 90, 120, 120R, and 155R. they are all user friendly and very reliable engines. In particular, I really love the 80 and 155R! The basic difference between the 120 and 120R is the huskier crankcase and the 120R has larger valves. There may be a difference in the valve timing also. My 155R turns a 16-8 proZinger @ 8900 on Wildcat 20-20 and will take my Rascal 110 vertical for several hundred feet! My 120R is almost 20 years old and turns a 14-10 @ 8400. Highly under rated engines. By the way saltburn, I use the 90 in my 1/5 Moth - so realistic putting around
the field and still will consecutive loop, spin, etc. with a throttle nudge.


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