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-   -   Rossi .60 2 stroke (http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/glow-engines-114/5471391-rossi-60-2-stroke.html)

RC-Captain 02-25-2007 08:53 AM

Rossi .60 2 stroke
 
Just need to know the recommended prop size for breaking in the engine.

Thnaks

NM2K 02-25-2007 01:19 PM

RE: Rossi .60 2 stroke
 

Quote:

ORIGINAL: RC-Captain

Just need to know the recommended prop size for breaking in the engine.

Thnaks

--------


An 11x6 to an 11x8 would be appropriate, with an 11x7 being perfect.


Ed Cregger

DarZeelon 02-25-2007 01:19 PM

RE: Rossi .60 2 stroke
 
Captain,


I would recommend using an 11x7, or better yet, a 10x8 prop, for break-in.
An APC is preferable, since it is designed to withstand higher RPM.

Please follow the procedure described in [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/Tapered%2DBore_Engine_Break%2Din_%2D_Upgraded/m_1850473/tm.htm]this RCU thread[/link] for great results.

RC-Captain 02-25-2007 05:01 PM

RE: Rossi .60 2 stroke
 
HAHAHA , thanks guys , I am laughing because I ran it today with a 13x5 prop that was on it when I bought the plane from a LHS. I felt that was to big but long story short I never got off the ground and I broke the vertical stab a little bit (easy fix ).
;)

downunder 02-25-2007 06:50 PM

RE: Rossi .60 2 stroke
 
Quote:

ORIGINAL: DarZeelon
Please follow the procedure described in [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/Tapered%2DBore_Engine_Break%2Din_%2D_Upgraded/m_1850473/tm.htm]this RCU thread[/link] for great results.
And if that doesn't work you can always try it the way that Rossi suggests :).

RC-Captain 02-25-2007 07:32 PM

RE: Rossi .60 2 stroke
 
Thanks , I read the information DAR , took the time to write , but I am of the old school, RTFM, method. Not to get in a debate but most threads I read in here on how to break in an engine never if rarely mention the type of fuel to use on particular engines. DAR did but for example a YS 1.20 engine requires I beleive 20% nitro or else the engien will not run properly.If not for a guy at my field using this engine I would never have guessed, and when we generalize engine break in methods IMHO all we are doing is guessing every engine made the same (bore,abn, etc) will run the same.

Thanks for the info.

NM2K 02-25-2007 11:56 PM

RE: Rossi .60 2 stroke
 

Quote:

ORIGINAL: RC-Captain

Thanks , I read the information DAR , took the time to write , but I am of the old school, RTFM, method. Not to get in a debate but most threads I read in here on how to break in an engine never if rarely mention the type of fuel to use on particular engines. DAR did but for example a YS 1.20 engine requires I beleive 20% nitro or else the engien will not run properly.If not for a guy at my field using this engine I would never have guessed, and when we generalize engine break in methods IMHO all we are doing is guessing every engine made the same (bore,abn, etc) will run the same.

Thanks for the info.

---------------


Then why did you ask?


Ed Cregger

RC-Captain 02-26-2007 12:19 AM

RE: Rossi .60 2 stroke
 
I don't have the manual for this engine . I searched high and low but can't find any pdf files about the engine.

DarZeelon 02-26-2007 01:00 AM

RE: Rossi .60 2 stroke
 

Quote:

ORIGINAL: RC-Captain

Thanks , I read the information DAR , took the time to write , but I am of the old school, RTFM, method. Not to get in a debate but most threads I read in here on how to break in an engine never if rarely mention the type of fuel to use on particular engines. DAR did but for example a YS 1.20 engine requires I beleive 20% nitro, or else the engine will not run properly. If not for a guy at my field using this engine I would never have guessed, and when we generalize engine break-in methods IMHO all we are doing is guessing every engine made the same (bore, ABN, Etc.) will run the same.

Thanks for the info.
Quote:

I don't have the manual for this engine.

Captain,


The Rossi manual says to run the engine "greasy" and with castor oil... (take note, Brian...)

What do you think this could mean? No clue? You're not alone. A Rossi is not for everyone.

So, your RTFM background would help very little, since the manual says virtually nothing that you can fully comprehend...


All engines of similar construction should be handled the same.
An ABC Rossi should not be broken-in like a meehanite piston - steel sleeve Fox .35...

Even Brian; when he's not attempting to prove other break-in methods are harmless, generally does it similarly to what is described in the tapered-bore break-in thread I referred you to.


If you try running that stock Rossi on YS fuel, with 20% nitro... You better do it from a distance...[:@]

RC-Captain 02-26-2007 01:38 AM

RE: Rossi .60 2 stroke
 
Quote:

A Rossi is not for everyone

I don't understand :eek: do I need three legs two thumbs and four eyes to breakv in this engine ?

I bought the engine used, It seemed like it was new meaning the compression is beyond excellent, but the guy selling the engine didn't leave the manual for anything , plane or engine. I got the engine to run today and I used 15% omega fuel not 20%.

Don't be offended by my RTFM comment it's the way I have been breaking in my engines for 5 years or so and I never had any problems . I thank you again for the information on the prop.

DarZeelon 02-26-2007 02:08 AM

RE: Rossi .60 2 stroke
 
Captain,


This is from the manual!

Use no more than 3% nitro. If you want to use 5% (five percent), install the included extra head-shim...


Don't use any more nitro than 5% nitro. Kapische?

Not 15%, not 20%, not even 10%... Just 5%.


The engine may run on 15%, but you will have to adjust it extremely rich, to prevent detonation; and this will adversely affect the low-end.
The engine will respond horribly to throttle inputs. And it is far from perfect in that respect even with 5%...

It is similar to running a Ferrari, designed with very high compression and requiring 'Super' unleaded gas, with 'Octane Booster™' added, on unleaded regular... The engine may self-adjust (you can adjust your Rossi...) so as not to cause itself permanent damage, but it will never come close to behaving as its manufacturer intended it to.

It will not make better power either...


You don't need any spare appendages to run a Rossi, but it does not handle as easily as an OS, for example.
You need to invest time in adjustment and proper handling.

It will reward you with great power, on cheap fuel, but this has a definite cost... Otherwise you would have been seeing many more of them.

RC-Captain 02-26-2007 02:12 AM

RE: Rossi .60 2 stroke
 
Thanks Dar. Can you email me a copy of the manual ? I especially interested in the 3% nitro since I have never heard of such a fuel .


DarZeelon 02-26-2007 02:38 AM

RE: Rossi .60 2 stroke
 
Captain,


Most people elsewhere in the world mix their own fuel; not just buy it ready-to-use...

I don't have a copy of the Rossi manual, but I asked someone here that has several of them to scan it and E-mail it to me.


I do, however, have a very good memory and I have seen this manual several times.

If someone does not post it before I do, you will see it in two-three days.

RC-Captain 02-26-2007 07:54 AM

RE: Rossi .60 2 stroke
 
Dar I completly understand this engine I beleive was made in Italy so using 3% fuel may have been the norm for people in Italy . But as we all no, adding nitro to fuel does nothing to any engine as far as wear and tear as long as there is enough castor oil to prevent ove4r heating . So as I did once , I bet I could add a certain amount of castor oil to a certain amount of 5% fuel and come with three percent fuel. Is this necessary ? I don't think so because 5% nitro vs 3% is nothing for me to worry about. Keep in mind I respect all of the info you are willing to share, and really can't disagree with any of it, at this time, because I haven't tried them .

I will wait for the manual and thanks again for your effort.



DarZeelon 02-26-2007 09:00 AM

RE: Rossi .60 2 stroke
 

Quote:

ORIGINAL: RC-Captain

But as we all know, adding nitro to fuel does nothing to any engine as far as wear and tear as long as there is enough castor oil to prevent over-heating .

Captain,


You are welcome!

Adding nitro to the fuel requires the engine to have a lower compression ratio.


As you already understand, Rossi engines (and MVVS, МДС (MDS) and other European made engines) are designed to use fuel that contains no nitro ($$$) at all. Their very high C/R requires the notably high octane rating of methanol (about 130).

Most European engines, however, will tolerate and even behave more moderately, if a little nitro is added to the fuel.
For MVVS engines, the maximum number is 5% and for Rossi it is 3%.

Adding this amount will make the needle adjustment less critical and the reliability, idle and transition will be improved.

Adding an extra head-shim in MVVS engines allows you to raise the nitro to the 'All American' 15%.

Nitro has a much lower octane rating and thus requires a significantly lower C/R.

Doing the same in the Rossi, maybe because the shim is thinner, does not allow this much nitro in any case.

You can fabricate a significantly thicker head-shim, but this alters the squish clearance and the engine behavior changes.


The importance of the oil in the engine's cooling is more a 'wives-tale' than truth.

The small amount of oil passing through the cylinder in each cycle, takes about 1/20 of the heat than do the passing methanol and nitro.


If you look in previous threads, the needle is the ignition timing control in a glow engine.
A lean mixture ignites more readily and burns faster than does a rich mixture, so closing the needle is advancing the ignition.

With a rich needle setting you can run more nitro in your Rossi, since the ignition timing will be delayed enough, so as to avert detonation, but your engine will run like a rabid dog and not like a Rossi.


I strongly suggest that you get the right fuel for your engine...
If you got that gallon of 15%, just mix it with 4 gallons of FAI fuel and you will have 5 gallons of 3% nitro fuel that your engine will run best on.

downunder 02-26-2007 09:11 AM

RE: Rossi .60 2 stroke
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

ORIGINAL: DarZeelon
The Rossi manual says to run the engine "greasy" and with castor oil... (take note, Brian...)
What am I supposed to be taking note of? The castor oil? That's all I use in my Rossi @ 20%.

Quote:

Even Brian; when he's not attempting to prove other break-in methods are harmless, generally does it similarly to what is described in the tapered-bore break-in thread I referred you to.
For your information Dar (and seeing this is the second time I've seen you say this) I do NOT do it your way or even close to it. Maybe you missed the thread I started on how I ran in my brand spanking new and (to me) very valuable OS 46VF.

Anyway, attached is a scan of my Rossi instructions. Excuse the (castor) oil stains :). Greasy means rich as can be seen just above the Fuel Tank Feeding para and I'll agree the instructions are vague but if you have to gradually lean out the mixture over the first 40 minutes and still have a "greasy" exhaust after 40 minutes...

NM2K 02-26-2007 11:28 AM

RE: Rossi .60 2 stroke
 

Quote:

ORIGINAL: RC-Captain

I don't have the manual for this engine . I searched high and low but can't find any pdf files about the engine.

-----------


Fair enough. Just curious.

Good luck with your Rossi.


Ed Cregger

DarZeelon 02-26-2007 12:32 PM

RE: Rossi .60 2 stroke
 

Quote:

ORIGINAL: downunder

Quote:

Even Brian; when he's not attempting to prove other break-in methods are harmless, generally does it similarly to what is described in the tapered-bore break-in thread I referred you to.
For your information Dar (and seeing this is the second time I've seen you say this) I do NOT do it your way, or even close to it. Maybe you missed the thread I started on how I ran in my brand spanking new and (to me) very valuable OS.46VF.

Brian,


I always thought that OS VF thread and that BlueBird.... were just different attempts on your part to show an extra rich break-in will cause no harm...:D;)

Flatspin-RCU 02-26-2007 03:08 PM

RE: Rossi .60 2 stroke
 
Hey guys I have a similar situation, I have a NIB Picco 60 with rear exhaust, black plastic looking carb body I would like to maybe install into a GP Cosmic Wind with a Mac 10cc tuned pipe. I also have no paper work on this motor and searched google for info but only got Picco car motor sites. Any info on this motor would be greatly appreciated. TIA Ron

NM2K 02-26-2007 06:35 PM

RE: Rossi .60 2 stroke
 

Quote:

ORIGINAL: Flatspin-RCU

Hey guys I have a similar situation, I have a NIB Picco 60 with rear exhaust, black plastic looking carb body I would like to maybe install into a GP Cosmic Wind with a Mac 10cc tuned pipe. I also have no paper work on this motor and searched google for info but only got Picco car motor sites. Any info on this motor would be greatly appreciated. TIA Ron

--------------


Copy the Rossi instructions listed in Brian's post and go by them. They should be perfect for your Picco 60, if you are not inclined to abide by Dar's recommendations - which I would do. The same sort of technology and engineering mindset was employed for both Rossi and Picco engines. OPS too, for that matter. Dar's recommendations will do your engine no harm, at the very worst, but I think they are good.

The OS .46 VF mentioned in another post did not utilize a true ABC piston/liner. It was the same as my OS .61 VF, which didn't make a single squeak when going past TDC. It was much looser fit with much less taper than a typical ABC engine of the period. You could have ran it full tilt right out of the box and it really wouldn't have made a difference in its longevity or power output. It would have been nice had they told the owner, but they were still using the term ABC when, in fact, the engine was ABN with a low taper ratio.

With that said, the OS .61VF was a great engine, as was the .46VF. Never was the latter a true ducted fan engine, but it worked reasonably well in that application.

It's okay to disagree - anyone. I won't cry in public. <G>


Ed Cregger


RC-Captain 02-26-2007 08:23 PM

RE: Rossi .60 2 stroke
 
Well right from the host's mouth , my ROSSI .60 has been broken in already. I just talked to the seller and was told, some one had the plane and engine before him . BUT MY GOD the engine looks and runs like it's new off the assembly line.

Dar I respect you, by now you should feel this way, but I read the instructions downunder posted and it says I can use up to 22% nitro. Ok OK I know, I said I was breaking it in , but this is no longer the case . I am going to drop the nitro down to 5% for a few flights the gradually move back up to 15%. The seller said he was using 10%, the LHS guy lied and told me he was using 15%, so I could buy the bottle of fuel I came into the store for in the first place.

I am now hunting for ROSSI ENGINEs , used of course , OS might have to eat his heart out . :)

Flatspin-RCU 02-26-2007 11:57 PM

RE: Rossi .60 2 stroke
 
Thanks Ed!! Do you think the Picco 60 will be a good choice for the Cosmic Wind? About 7 1/2lbs AUW..I may have to cut a channel near the bottom of the firewall for header clearance for the Mac pipe and I dont want to bother if slapping a 90 Super Tiger (ie cheap) would fly it faster anyhow. Thanks again

Ron

DarZeelon 02-27-2007 05:31 AM

RE: Rossi .60 2 stroke
 
Ron,


That [link=http://www.greatplanes.com/airplanes/gpma1321.html]Cosmic Wind[/link] is a really sleek plane, but it might be a bit heavier than you estimated.

It might benefit from using a somewhat smaller diameter prop, with a higher pitch, to achieve higher flight speed.

While the BPA crowd would normally put an 11x7-11x7 3/4 prop on it, the sleek aerodynamic design would allow using a 10.5x8-10x10 prop, since there isn't very much drag force to overcome. A Picco like yours will be spinning about 14.5-15K RPM and this will give you more speed than a Super Tigre G90 spinning a 12x10 at 10.5-11K RPM.

NM2K 02-27-2007 12:35 PM

RE: Rossi .60 2 stroke
 

Quote:

ORIGINAL: DarZeelon

Ron,


That [link=http://www.greatplanes.com/airplanes/gpma1321.html]Cosmic Wind[/link] is a really sleek plane, but it might be a bit heavier than you estimated.

It might benefit from using a somewhat smaller diameter prop, with a higher pitch, to achieve higher flight speed.

While the BPA crowd would normally put an 11x7-11x7 3/4 prop on it, the sleek aerodynamic design would allow using a 10.5x8-10x10 prop, since there isn't very much drag force to overcome. A Picco like yours will be spinning about 14.5-15K RPM and this will give you more speed than a Super Tigre G90 spinning a 12x10 at 10.5-11K RPM.

-----------


I agree with Dar on the prop. For some reason, I was thinking of pattern before.


Ed Cregger

Flatspin-RCU 02-27-2007 10:29 PM

RE: Rossi .60 2 stroke
 
Thanks Dar and Ed...soon as the weather breaks here in Mi I will have lots of tweeking to do on about 4 new planes.. so many planes, so little time eh?

Ron PS..thanks for letting me horn in on this thread also!


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