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How Many Builders Are Left?

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Old 07-15-2011, 04:29 PM
  #151
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Great shots of all those Ares. The old photo takes me back...about a '61 Valiant in the background?

The green, cream and silver Tiger Moth looks exceptionally nice too.

Jim
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Old 08-23-2011, 06:59 PM
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I don't know why I read through this whole thread because I've never seen such a ridiculous display of childish arguing over definitions in my life! Why don't all of you just agree that building your own planes is an enjoyable facet of the hobby, regardless of whether you build from kits or grow your own balsa trees? Good grief, we're ALL modelers to some extent or another! What is the benefit of drawing up sides against each other???

Harvey
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Old 08-24-2011, 02:47 AM
  #153
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: H5487

I don't know why I read through this whole thread because I've never seen such a ridiculous display of childish arguing over definitions in my life! Why don't all of you just agree that building your own planes is an enjoyable facet of the hobby, regardless of whether you build from kits or grow your own balsa trees? Good grief, we're ALL modelers to some extent or another! What is the benefit of drawing up sides against each other???

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Old 08-24-2011, 06:31 AM
  #154
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: H5487

I don't know why I read through this whole thread because I've never seen such a ridiculous display of childish arguing over definitions in my life! Why don't all of you just agree that building your own planes is an enjoyable facet of the hobby, regardless of whether you build from kits or grow your own balsa trees? Good grief, we're ALL modelers to some extent or another! What is the benefit of drawing up sides against each other???

Harvey

...Ummmm.....

I give up.. You tell us!

Brian
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Old 08-24-2011, 07:03 AM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: H5487

I don't know why I read through this whole thread because I've never seen such a ridiculous display of childish arguing over definitions in my life! Why don't all of you just agree that building your own planes is an enjoyable facet of the hobby, regardless of whether you build from kits or grow your own balsa trees? Good grief, we're ALL modelers to some extent or another! What is the benefit of drawing up sides against each other???

Harvey
While I may not agree with what you say, I defend to the death your right to say it.
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Old 08-24-2011, 08:31 AM
  #156
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I bought my first ARF a month or so ago and love it. Well, it's not an ARF in the traditional sense, but it's the only plane I own that I didn't build myself. It's a BUSA Phaeton 90 on floats that I found on Craigslist. I bought it from a guy that bought a large lot of rc plane stuff at an estate sale. It was missing the cowl and N-struts, the floats and gear needed to be stripped, glassed and painted, paint touched up and whole plane clear coated, radio and fuel system gutted and re-installed, engine mounted and a few other things.

Being a builder, one of the best parts about this project was thinking about the original builder and the decisions he made, the parts he used, parts he bought, parts he made. Since this plane came from an estate sale there's a good chance that builder has passed away. When was the last time the plane flew? Would he be happy to know his plane was flying again? All the other guys I float fly with are builders so when I brought this out yesterday we all sat around and talked about it and the builder. Just the decision to put this particular plane with an incredibly light wing loading on floats told us this guy knew what he was doing. The plane ended up weighing a hair under 16lbs but even with an old Enya 1.20 four stroke for power it flew great on it's re-maiden flight yesterday. I can't imagine a more well behaved float plane. Takes off straight as an arrow and lands at a walking pace. It really makes a cub on floats look like a handful.


90% of the guys in my club are ARF flyers and they just wouldn't appreciate all that stuff. If I showed them the plane they would say "oh, that's nice" then lose interest when they found out they couldn't just buy one. All the things the other builders and I talked about for nearly an hour wouldn't mean anything to them. I know all ARF flyers aren't like that, but the majority just have a lack of of interest or appreciation in modeling. Sorry if that upsets some people, but modeling is the act of building/constructing a smaller version of a real object. Doesn't mean I don't want to be friends, hang out at the field or talk about rc with them, but I just have a lot more in common with other builders compared to other guys that are just "rc plane flyers."
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Old 08-24-2011, 01:37 PM
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The impression that I got from several of the postings in this thread is that if the posters were to go to a full-scale fly-in and see a P-51 Mustang, they would look down their noses at the owner because he didn't originally build it himself.

Geez, guys, I'm a builder myself but I've never felt a need to dis another R/Cer because he flies an ARF or RTF. The bottom line is that there are some folks with big toolboxes at home and know how to use every tool in them. There are also those who own little more than a pair of pliers and an old butter knife because they don't share the same creative drive that others have. To my way of thinking, I'd rather the ARF/RTF pilots feel welcome at our flying fields than to be looked down on by their "fellow" aviators.

And just what is so important about determining the exact definition of scratch built, plans built, kit built, etc? Both terms are so ambiguous that it's hardly worth arguing over. The guy who builds kits looks down on the guy who assembles an ARF because he didn't truely build his plane. The guy who builds from plans and a stock of balsa sticks and sheets looks down on the kitbuilder because he thinks that's nothing more than gluing parts together. The guy who designs his own airplane and then builds it looks down on the plans builder because the plans builder relied on "someone else's" ideas. As near as I can tell, the only guys you really admire are the ones who grow their own balsa trees from seeds, build their motors from castings that they made, and brew their own fuel with their kid's chemistry set.

If you REALLY need someone to hate, how about the pharmacists who insist on putting childproof caps on arthritis meds!

Harvey
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Old 08-24-2011, 09:48 PM
  #158
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Default RE: How Many Builders Are Left?

Well said Harvey!
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Old 11-10-2011, 05:32 PM
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Well Its good to see this thread i started so long ago is still going. At least somewhat. I suppose some have been redefining just what a "builder" is. As far as I am concerned if you built it yourself, no matter if it were from a kit, from someones plans or plans you drew yourself then you are a builder.

I built one SPAD model and while its not balsa its still a home made airplane. Plus it has all the improvements and mods I felt it needed to suit me. And you know what else? That sucker really flies wells and is crash proof to a degree. I tested it twice.

I am an insurance adjuster and this has been a very good storm year for me. But now I'm done. I have a plane on charge right now so maybe I can get some stick time saturday. Plus I see the Bluejay models (Bridi Planes) is now offering the loadstar kit. I think I will order one. I have had two of these in the past and they are very fine flyers. Like a Telemaster 40 without the flying tail.
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Old 11-11-2011, 01:23 PM
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I started in control line models in 1951, then tried R/C in 1952 and crashed everything I built so I next scratch built from plans a free flight to learn how to trim out a model. By 1953 I was buildign from plans. Over the years I have scratch built a lot of models and get the most satisfaction from the original designs built from 3 views. I have bought and flown ARF's when I didn't have time to build what I wanted.

Currently I am doing a scratch build of the F-94C jet, you have no choice if you want that model, I don't think a kit or ARF was ever offered.

The F-94C is considered vintage as far as jets go.
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Old 11-11-2011, 01:58 PM
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I love it! What will you use for power?
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Old 11-11-2011, 03:52 PM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: smithcreek

90% of the guys in my club are ARF flyers and they just wouldn't appreciate all that stuff. If I showed them the plane they would say ''oh, that's nice'' then lose interest when they found out they couldn't just buy one. All the things the other builders and I talked about for nearly an hour wouldn't mean anything to them. I know all ARF flyers aren't like that, but the majority just have a lack of of interest or appreciation in modeling. Sorry if that upsets some people, but modeling is the act of building/constructing a smaller version of a real object. Doesn't mean I don't want to be friends, hang out at the field or talk about rc with them, but I just have a lot more in common with other builders compared to other guys that are just ''rc plane flyers.''
I must echo your experiences. I have experienced that myself and often heard the same lamentation put passively and matter of factly from others as opposed to drawing lines in the sand.

I have questions about your model. I love that Phaeton. If it was ARFed I would buy one but I have the plans so I guess I will build one. ARFs have driven kit prices down to the point I will have to check the kit route.

I really like the cowl treatment on yours and want to do the float modification as well. Maybe if you have time you could PM with which cowl and floats you used. I am interested in the extras that the obviously experienced builder added that peaked your interests with such regard.
Cheers, JoeAverage
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Old 11-11-2011, 04:29 PM
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I feel so lucky to be a builder. Not very many people have an avocation they can enjoy as much. Always a new project to look forward to, imagining it and then making it take form, and every so often, the pleasure of admiring my new plane and getting it in ship shape for the first flight, and then seeing my creation in the air. I definitely relate to other builders in the club much more than to the rest, even though I enjoy the company of most of the strictly-ARF guys. Our Mall Shows are such a bore now because people just bring things they bought, and not so many even bother to go to it anymore. It used to be the time when everybody saw what each other built over the winter, which was very exciting. That's what I really, really miss...having lots of newly built planes show up every spring.

Jim
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Old 11-11-2011, 06:48 PM
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In my earlier post I stated I was thinking of ordering a loadstar from Bluejay models and thats what I just did. Plus I ordered a krafty 60 while I was at it. That will give me two planes to work on over the winter.Heres a link if you want to look.

http://www.bridiairplanes.com/index.htm
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Old 11-11-2011, 08:28 PM
  #165
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Hi Jim, Your post has resonated on a new note for me. Thinking about our winter projects and their unveiling. Spring and what the colder season's labour has brought. I feel a sense of loss more than anything. That loss in what 40 years of traditional modelling across many genres is what has me looking for the culprit to blame. Arfs has made it easier for many who may otherwise not participate at all so it paints targets. Economics and the pace of life has determined what is being built in no insignificant way. If the money for modelling products was staying on shore and local retailers and producers were increasing then it would all be much easier to cut everyone some slack. The products from the US, Canada, the UK and Europe were among my favourites. Narrow minded on a site with Universe in the title but we are circling the drain here. I'm in Canada but what happens in the States effects us so directly and while we have a "Global Economy" the money and jobs are heading the other way. I lament the days when I was buying more, any domestic model product although I like English and European engines. O.S., yes of course.

ratshooter got that great looking kit made in USA. I buy domestic. It's getting harder. The less we do, the less choice we have. My last 2 kits were made in Penn. A year ago today, (easy to remember) I bought a brand new Gibson SG Robot. Made in USA. I trying to keep the North American economy afloat on my own it feels. Wait for another 10 years. Will a change in Presidents put everyone back to work? It never has. I'm buying polyester fabric and Randolph dope. When I see a grand go to China for an ARF it seems treasonous. If that is just plain stupid then bannish me but when we are flipping burgers and cooking meth to get money for imported models maybe this thread will come to mind. I wish folks were working more than anything. We can't all be professionals. I'm not and my wife just lost her job. Hard times make for irrational thoughts. If it costs more to live buying local there is a reason for it. The richest in our society have moved all the plants abroad and they pay no taxes. Nice to be them. Warren Buffet is no liar. We have to support eash other. Sliding out to wallyworld while no one is watching or buying direct from China to cut out the American or Canadian retailer isn't shrewd. Our Candain soldiers come back from Afganistan just as dead as anyone elses. 30,000 Canadians served in the American military in Vietnam. 13,000 were in the shooting war. 110 were killed 7 MIA. Our troops are fighting for us. The ones that live. Why can't we buy for us? No, I haven't been drinking. Can't get in the mood. Live and let live. Buy domestic.

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Old 11-11-2011, 10:26 PM
  #166
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Last year about 50 of us built Webbits and flew them at a special event in the English Midlands during the summer. We raised over £600 ($960) for arthritis research. See Post 143.

For 2012 we are staging a Mass Vintage Build. Go to www.modelflying.co.uk, go to "Forums," click on a "All Topics" then on "2012 Mass Vintage Build" for details. A vintage model in the UK is defined as one which first flew before 1965. I will be building a Keil Kraft Super 60.

We might be sending donations to a charity this year but haven't yet decided whether we will and if we do, which one to adopt. The British Legion and Help for Heroes have been suggested, both of which provide support to former servicemen.
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Old 11-12-2011, 05:42 AM
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Hi Joe, yes, we didn't know we'd look back on our doped wooden airplanes powered by Cox, Fox, McCoy, K&B, made from kits by Goldberg, Jetco, Midwest, Sig, Veco, Scientific, DeBolt, Berkeley etc. and call those the golden years of modeling.

Now fewer are building, but we can talk across thousands of miles and share what we're doing. So guys, I figured I'd look at your galleries and see lots of planes, and I did find some delightful pics, but I also found that about 2/3rds are not posting ANYTHING in your galleries. So get with it! Let's use what we've got!

And there are still lots of kit manufacturers putting out good stuff. I'm glad Sig is back selling kits, even coming out with new ones. I'm amazed at what AerodromeRC offers now, and many of those planes would do great with real engines on them. Then there's BUSA, Proctor, Hobby Hangar, Mountain Models, Skybench, etc. etc. plus several laser cutting outfits for plans, along with foam wing cutters, fiberglass molders, plastic parts like canopies, etc. And good ol' RCM still sells their plans at reasonable prices (so why does our AMA charge its own members so much for plans?). There's lots out there, just fewer of us in any one place.
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Old 11-12-2011, 07:36 AM
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buzzard bait,
I am going with my WREN SS for engine. I estimate 21.5 lbs dry at takeoff with 18lbs static thrust. I am finishing wiring and plumbing right now.

I flew the F-94C out of Rome,NY in 1956,57,58 and of course flew right over your area. My paint scheme is the 27th FIS stationed at Griffis at that time.
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Old 11-12-2011, 09:39 AM
  #169
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Fantastic Sid...so that's a real turbo jet, right?

You must have some great memories of flying that bird. I'm a little younger; I remember one on display in Ames Iowa at an annual spring celebration. I remember the rockets in a ring around the nose.

Jim
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Old 11-12-2011, 10:14 AM
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Beautifull F-94C! Glad to see something different. ...Gene
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Old 11-12-2011, 12:12 PM
  #171
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buzzard bait & Gene6029,
Yes it is a turbo jet, the full scale had the same engine that was used in the Mig15, the British sold the design to the US and Russia. The F-94C version had an after burner for approx. 8700 lbs. of thrust.

There were no two seat versions so we got 10hrs of ground school and then our first solo. We had been flying the T-33 which climbed at 275knts. In the F-94C we were instructed to keep in on the deck to 475knts, makes for an exciting first solo. From brake release at sea level to 40,000ft was 9+ minutes, not too bad for that era.

We carried 48 rockets, 24 in the nose and 12 in each wing pod. In practice we shot 24 at once, for real we would have launched all 48.

You can see my build on my web site: http://www.sidgates.us
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Old 11-12-2011, 01:06 PM
  #172
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This is off of ivans plans 99 inch wing span 4 - jamara brushed 480 motor with gear boxes flys on 2 - 3200 lipo packs 4 bladed APC 10x7 props. It weighs 9 pounds with batterys ,flys real slooow and scale. I will build his albitross next and his twin otter also. Keep building guys ! joe
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Old 11-12-2011, 03:46 PM
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Building is, in my opinion, the best part of the hobby. From scratch, plans or a kit. All fun stuff.
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Old 11-23-2011, 07:58 AM
  #174
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Hey! Don't count us "Old Timers" out just because we like to build some models that don't exist in kits or ARF's. Half of the fun in flying is seeing your own creation fly.
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Old 11-23-2011, 10:46 AM
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Cool Shuttle, Roy!

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