Vintage Sig R-C Sport Build Thread
01-02-2012, 10:40 PM
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Vintage Sig R-C Sport Build Thread
Hey everyone -
I received a 1960's era Sig R-C Sport kit as a Christmas gift, and, having never actually gotten around to doing one before, have decided to turn this potential catastrophe into a build thread. The model, according to the box, has a 45 inch wingspan, and features "a MOULDED FOAM WING" and "Fast Construction" that's "Easy to Build". So pretty much the same thing that's posted on every ARTF and foamy fighter-jet sold today.
As it stands, I've got a box of mainly sheet components, a few sticks, a foam wing that weighs the same as a Bentley Continental,a pre-formed aluminium undercarriage and a slightly dilapidated set of plans. Also included was a literally disintegrating AMA leaflet and a Sig inspection slip signed by "Number 33". So if anything is out of place with this kit, I have someone to blame - Great thinking, Sig !
The gentleman who sold the kit was kind enough to include a second wing moulding, which was very kind, as I have not been able to source them anywhere.
The construction is very simple - a basic sheet box structure, sheet eppenage and the foam wing - so I doubt it will take long to construct.
Under normal circumstances, I would just plough ahead and bludgeon my way to a (most likely semi-) flyable model. Because, however, the fact that someone sitting behind a computer whom I have never met nor feel the need to impress upon is watching my progress
, I will do my best to, er..., do my best.
Radio requirements call for either full propo rudder, elevator and throttle, galloping ghost with blip throttle, rudder only, or best of all: None.
Yes, the R-C Sport can also be built as a freeflight.
I wonder if their trainers at the time were marketed as pattern ships?
What I've got, cannibalised from a few ex-model aircraft are three nine gram servos, a full range Hitec micro 5 channel receiver and a pseudo rechargeable lightweight NiCd pack. The lightweight bit is about all the battery has going for it...
As for a power setup:
Reccomended on the tin is either an .049 for rudder only or free-flight, .09 to .10 for the GG conglomeration, or a .10 to .15 for the super high-tech-way-of-the-future digital proportional arrangement.
I'm not sure of the final weights anticipated with escapements, tube receivers and lead steam boilers, so I'm just going to assume my cheap and cheerful Chinese gear will exceed Sig's creataceous era brachiosaurus expectations.
Of course, with only a 45 inch wingspan, it would seem most practical in todays' day and age to forego the monotenous and oily drone of clinically unreliable and enviromentally insecure glow engines for clean, quiet and politically correct electric power.
With all signs pointing towards this type of setup, I pretty much have no choice but to ignore it all together and curb my desire for a model that doesn't sound like a real aircraft, doesn't scare away birds, children and the elderly, and requires a substantial amount of time between flights to charge the potentially explosive (fun!) batteries.
I would like to thank anyone who can help me out with this build, and especially anyone who knows anything about this model. I can't find any info anywhere on it! It appears to be the predecessor to the better known Sig Super Sport, if that's anything to go on...
So, yep - I'm going with glow. As of today, I've never flown or operated an engine below a .40 size, so advice on particular brands, fuels, avoiding plastic surgery on my hands and forearms, and propeller selection would be particularily appreciated.
I should be able to start my build tomorrow (i.e Today ), and will post some related pictures of the ensuing chaos and probable housefire.
Regards,
Graeme
I received a 1960's era Sig R-C Sport kit as a Christmas gift, and, having never actually gotten around to doing one before, have decided to turn this potential catastrophe into a build thread. The model, according to the box, has a 45 inch wingspan, and features "a MOULDED FOAM WING" and "Fast Construction" that's "Easy to Build". So pretty much the same thing that's posted on every ARTF and foamy fighter-jet sold today.
As it stands, I've got a box of mainly sheet components, a few sticks, a foam wing that weighs the same as a Bentley Continental,a pre-formed aluminium undercarriage and a slightly dilapidated set of plans. Also included was a literally disintegrating AMA leaflet and a Sig inspection slip signed by "Number 33". So if anything is out of place with this kit, I have someone to blame - Great thinking, Sig !
The gentleman who sold the kit was kind enough to include a second wing moulding, which was very kind, as I have not been able to source them anywhere.
The construction is very simple - a basic sheet box structure, sheet eppenage and the foam wing - so I doubt it will take long to construct.
Under normal circumstances, I would just plough ahead and bludgeon my way to a (most likely semi-) flyable model. Because, however, the fact that someone sitting behind a computer whom I have never met nor feel the need to impress upon is watching my progress
, I will do my best to, er..., do my best.Radio requirements call for either full propo rudder, elevator and throttle, galloping ghost with blip throttle, rudder only, or best of all: None.
Yes, the R-C Sport can also be built as a freeflight.
I wonder if their trainers at the time were marketed as pattern ships?
What I've got, cannibalised from a few ex-model aircraft are three nine gram servos, a full range Hitec micro 5 channel receiver and a pseudo rechargeable lightweight NiCd pack. The lightweight bit is about all the battery has going for it...
As for a power setup:
Reccomended on the tin is either an .049 for rudder only or free-flight, .09 to .10 for the GG conglomeration, or a .10 to .15 for the super high-tech-way-of-the-future digital proportional arrangement.
I'm not sure of the final weights anticipated with escapements, tube receivers and lead steam boilers, so I'm just going to assume my cheap and cheerful Chinese gear will exceed Sig's creataceous era brachiosaurus expectations.
Of course, with only a 45 inch wingspan, it would seem most practical in todays' day and age to forego the monotenous and oily drone of clinically unreliable and enviromentally insecure glow engines for clean, quiet and politically correct electric power.
With all signs pointing towards this type of setup, I pretty much have no choice but to ignore it all together and curb my desire for a model that doesn't sound like a real aircraft, doesn't scare away birds, children and the elderly, and requires a substantial amount of time between flights to charge the potentially explosive (fun!) batteries.
I would like to thank anyone who can help me out with this build, and especially anyone who knows anything about this model. I can't find any info anywhere on it! It appears to be the predecessor to the better known Sig Super Sport, if that's anything to go on...
So, yep - I'm going with glow. As of today, I've never flown or operated an engine below a .40 size, so advice on particular brands, fuels, avoiding plastic surgery on my hands and forearms, and propeller selection would be particularily appreciated.
I should be able to start my build tomorrow (i.e Today ), and will post some related pictures of the ensuing chaos and probable housefire.
Regards,
Graeme
01-04-2012, 11:30 AM
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RE: Vintage Sig R-C Sport Build Thread
Hullo again -
Today I've finally pushed aside any important dates set for today, namely just studying for exams, spending important time with my family, and minor throat surgery so I can get around to starting this build. When I posted last, I had hoped to upload some more pictures but decided to fall asleep instead - so I'm uploading the remainder of them now.
EDIT: This might take a while - photos will only work one by one, not in groups. Kind of like politicians.
EDIT: This might take a while - photos will only work one by one, not in groups. Kind of like politicians.
01-04-2012, 01:34 PM
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RE: Vintage Sig R-C Sport Build Thread
Sup, again...
I've continued my balsa-crunching this afternoon, and have made a bit of progress on the fuselage. Of course, as the wing is pre-moulded foam, I'm probably a lot further ahead than I imagine. Hopefully, I'll have the fuselage done by tomorrow - provided I void my"Work Slowly And End Up With A Decent Model"contract...
What I've specifically done is glue the fuselage doublers in place and add al of the triangle stock bits. Unfortunately, the doublers, although beautifully die-cut, were clearly designed as IKEA furniture table tops and were thrown in the box by accident. They did not fit at all, were far too long and didn't allow for the triangle stock to line up correctly.
Out comes the knife and sanding block.
Once that was finished, and the massive excesses of balsa cut from the doublers were packed in a 20 ft shipping container to be disposed of, they were glued in place.
Naturally, I had skimped out on the actual adhesives used and settled for locally available white glue, instead of Ambroid or the like . This made the components warp to a greater degree than my history textbook's coverage of the cancellation of the Avro Cf-105 Arrow programme.
Of course, unlike my ill-informed course material, the balsa's issue could be cured with two heavy books, a brick, and a portable hard-drive acting as pressure while the glue dried.
This worked pretty well and I could then commence adding the triangle stock, which shockingly went without swearing, consulting the internet for advice, or resorting to the Sawz-All as a cutting tool.
So next up is adding the firewalls, fuselage formers and finally gluing the mess together into something that resembles either the intended aircraft fuselage or a poorly thought out table leg.
01-04-2012, 02:44 PM
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RE: Vintage Sig R-C Sport Build Thread
Here we have the two completed fuselage sides - glue still not quite as dry as my sense of humor, so there are still pins holding it together.
I've also just made the cuts for the wing saddle and pseudo-cowling at the nose.
I've also just made the cuts for the wing saddle and pseudo-cowling at the nose.
Overall, the kit seems to be pretty nice, disregarding the fuselage doubler. In terms of balsa quality, it is outstanding. The wood in the kit is over 40 years old and still far exceeds that of any modern kit I've put together. The balsa is just the right grain for where it should be and still is very light and easy to work with. Of course, the lightness of the fuselage is offset by the industrial support beam grade foam wing, which I doubt needs the "strengthening" fibreglass tape strip added as per the plan sheet.
I've posted a picture of the work so far as well as my inspirational material for the build - more or less the correct era based on the obscenely priced radio adverts and articles on modifying reed banks with a rotary tool...
01-04-2012, 05:24 PM
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RE: Vintage Sig R-C Sport Build Thread
Wonderful-
Light bulbjust died in the only room available to be filled with balsa dust, so now I'm working under a bedside lamp!
I've managed to start joining the two fuselage sides - they seem to be a bit off with the formers in place, but nothing that a hammer or already-broken stereo can't fix.
The first picture shows a Cox .049 for size - this isn't exactly a gigantic model.
Second and third photos show the actual joining process. I followed standard practise by gluing the centre bits first, and then pulling the tail together. Rubber bands hold the thing together while it dries.
Second and third photos show the actual joining process. I followed standard practise by gluing the centre bits first, and then pulling the tail together. Rubber bands hold the thing together while it dries.
01-07-2012, 10:16 PM
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RE: Vintage Sig R-C Sport Build Thread
I have the Fleet Biplane by Sig, it is a variation useing the same wing only 2 in this case. The construction, plans etc are pure vintage Sig. I was thinking of electric so I won`t need to cut the beautiful nylon cowl for a big muffler or glow plug
01-08-2012, 06:03 AM
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RE: Vintage Sig R-C Sport Build Thread
I built all the later Sig kits in that series using the foam wing, Colt, Scamp, Klipper and Super Sport. They all flew well using Enya 15's and 19's, but I recall that the Scamp and Super Sport were the ones I enjoyed flying the most. Have built a lot of models the last 40 years but it's hard to beat these simple 3 channel jobs in fun per dollar.
Scott
01-08-2012, 12:55 PM
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RE: Vintage Sig R-C Sport Build Thread
Thanks for the reply, Scott!
Thanks for the pic!
I've heard that the foam wing series was great, so I'm confident the R-C Sport will be a fine flier. I was looking at the Klipper but I couldn't seem to find any when the R-C Sport was purchased.
Would you recommend a 15 or 19 sized engine?
Hello dls,
I had never seen the Fleet biplane, but it looks to be from the same run of models from the box art. The wing molding is definitely the same as the R-C Sport. Do you know of any other models in the range, or when they were produced from?
Thanks for the pic!
Graeme
01-08-2012, 02:00 PM
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RE: Vintage Sig R-C Sport Build Thread
More work done on the model, but I'm highly doubtful that the photos will upload. Normal photo uploader is completely unreliable and the beta uploader is as likely to attach my photos as a plate of lasagna. So not at all.
The bottom sheeting consisted of several crossgrained 3/36 sheets. Each one was roughly twice the width of the fuselage, so the excess would be used as well.
The sheeting on the top of the fuselage was glued in place, pinned, and put aside for a few hours. Once it dried, I cut the excess material with a knife and sanded it to the correct profile.
The bottom sheeting consisted of several crossgrained 3/36 sheets. Each one was roughly twice the width of the fuselage, so the excess would be used as well.
This wasn't overly difficult, even though after sticking about 100 pins to hold the sheeting down, my fingers ended up moreperforated than the balsa.
All that is left of the fuselage is to add the forward wing seat / fairing thinger and ruin my lungs further by sanding for a few hours....
01-08-2012, 08:23 PM
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RE: Vintage Sig R-C Sport Build Thread
Like Scott I built most of these as well.....also like Scott we used enya 15's or 19's in them and they were a lot of fun.
We actually covered one wing with silkspan and thinned white glue and water then painted it. As if it wasn't heavy enough already!!
Bob
We actually covered one wing with silkspan and thinned white glue and water then painted it. As if it wasn't heavy enough already!!
Bob
01-08-2012, 10:46 PM
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RE: Vintage Sig R-C Sport Build Thread
My old Sig catalog, circa 1970 or so, lists 7 kits based on the 45" foam wing. The R-C Sport, Dehavilland Beaver, Stinson L-5, Relic, Aero Sportster, Fleet Biplane and Stits Flutterbug were all based on the 45" constant chord wing.
01-09-2012, 01:41 PM
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RE: Vintage Sig R-C Sport Build Thread
Looks great Graeme! I have a few of these old kits for future builds and like you have not seen much out there regarding people flying or building them. The foam wing for the RC Sport and the others listed by dls is different than the one supplied with the Super Sport, Colt, Klipper, and Scamp. The earlier wing seems to be heavier and a little more rounded on the lower side than the newer Klipper, Super Sport, etc wing. I am looking for Flutterbug, Stinson, and Relic kits or plans if anyone has them.
Rob
Rob
01-09-2012, 04:25 PM
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RE: Vintage Sig R-C Sport Build Thread
Hi guys,
Great to hear from everyone - I'll keep my eye out for some of those other kits. To be honest, something like this would be an ideal first model kit. In fact, I'm surprised there aren't any left on the market. A beginner builder could just pick up several fuselage kits and one or two wings.
As per the build, I've gotten the fuselage finalised and rounded, and it looks pretty good. You can definitely tell it's an old design from the wide fuselage to fit the gargantuan radio equipment of the era.
I've also finished cutting out and shaping the horizontal stabiliser and elevator halves, and the vertical stabiliser and rudder.
I have a few questions, though:
As for the wing, as Bob said - this thing weighs a ton! I don't really want to paint it, mainly because every time I get near a spray can or brush I turn the model in question into a rejected piece of post-modern art.
Instead, would lightweight low-temp film work? I know it says specifically not to use plastic film, but I imagine the only product at the time was high-temp original Monokote.
The plan also states the use of sewn hinges, which I'm not a fan of, but look "retro". If I was covering the model with silk, I would go with sewn hinges without a doubt, but I'm still not sure that I'm going down that path.
In the end, I'm still lost between making a truly retro model with original covering, engine, and maybe even radio (
) or just a standard sport plane with the modern materials available today. The "new" model will probably weigh less and fly better, but lacks in appearance.
) or just a standard sport plane with the modern materials available today. The "new" model will probably weigh less and fly better, but lacks in appearance.Any ideas?
Graeme
01-12-2012, 06:01 PM
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RE: Vintage Sig R-C Sport Build Thread
As for colour scheme, I've come up with two variations on a classic 2 tone design. As I'm actually planning on flyingthis thing, I'm choosing the colours I can see best, red and black or yellow and black. I was originally planning on using transparent covering to show off the structure, before I realised it would do nothing but show off the sheet fuselage, sheet tail surfaces and beaded foam wings. Not exactly classy.
01-16-2012, 06:18 PM
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RE: Vintage Sig R-C Sport Build Thread
Howdy all !
I've just finished rough sanding the fuselage, so the major build is complete. I've still got to cover the model, but I won't be able to do that this week. Instead, my midterms are starting on Thursday and final projects are doing their best to literally implode my brain as per a depth charged U-boat.
Luckily, for my computer design course, the final practical assignment entails designing and building a model glider. Can't get much better than that ! (I hope the teacher doesn't mind when I arrive with the 8 foot foot thermal ship I'm working on)
)As for my R-C Sport - I really am stuck as to the power setup. Having looked at engines, I've come across some rather nice 15 sized 2 strokes from Great Hobbies and Tower Hobbies, as well as some from China for around 30 dollars. All of these are nice, but I'm really wondering if electric would be the way to go. The reason for the change of heart simply that I would love a model I can fly "whenever" without furthering the depletion of my education funds on glow fuel. The only thing I'm really worried about is the weight - the model , even accounting the 9 gram servos, light weight battery pack and micro receiver, still weighs more than I would like for something this size.
Regardless of how the model will be (under)powered, I've built the front hatchway as per the plans - it was designed to house the fuel tank, but I imagine it would also hold a decent sized battery. The hatch itself is just a sanded balsa block, which, as far as I can tell, is supposed to be glued into position when the tank is installed. Several of Sig's older and newer kits involve entombing the tank in balsa with the assumption that the tank will never, ever fail. Which is okay, because fuel tanks never have problems or need cleaning, and fuel line never needs replacing.
I'm going to use a latch hold-down on the front of the hatch, and a single screw at the back for access to the fuel tank, or -(god forbid)- battery.
I'm scaring myself now with all this el*ctric talk!
01-16-2012, 11:15 PM
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RE: Vintage Sig R-C Sport Build Thread
I think a magnum .15 can be found fairly cheap and would sound SO much better than electric. You can use the same fuel you use in your larger glow engines and you don"t have to wait for battery packs to charge up or have to have 4 of them to fly basically continuously at will.
Tim
Tim
01-17-2012, 08:32 AM
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RE: Vintage Sig R-C Sport Build Thread
"without furthering the depletion of my education funds on glow fuel"
Regarding this, remember that a .15 glow engine really doesn't use that much fuel. "Back in the day" my OS .15 MAX powered Midwest Esquire would fly for 30 minutes on a 4 ounce tank by just throttling back and cruising around.
DennisV
Regarding this, remember that a .15 glow engine really doesn't use that much fuel. "Back in the day" my OS .15 MAX powered Midwest Esquire would fly for 30 minutes on a 4 ounce tank by just throttling back and cruising around.
DennisV
01-17-2012, 04:26 PM
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RE: Vintage Sig R-C Sport Build Thread
ORIGINAL: GraemeEllis
Thanks for the reply, Scott!
Thanks for the pic!
Thanks for the reply, Scott!
I've heard that the foam wing series was great, so I'm confident the R-C Sport will be a fine flier. I was looking at the Klipper but I couldn't seem to find any when the R-C Sport was purchased.
Would you recommend a 15 or 19 sized engine?
Hello dls,
I had never seen the Fleet biplane, but it looks to be from the same run of models from the box art. The wing molding is definitely the same as the R-C Sport. Do you know of any other models in the range, or when they were produced from?
Thanks for the pic!
Graeme
Not sure on Canadian law, but in the US it would be illegal to use an electric motor on one of these
01-17-2012, 06:00 PM
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RE: Vintage Sig R-C Sport Build Thread
Hello all again - thanks for the engine suggestions!
I will look into purchasing either an Enya, Magnum or Fox engine between either a 15 or 19 size.
I had to hit myself over the head with the keyboard a few times, but I've managed to convince myself that I don't want to wait for batteries, and that the extra weight will mean the model will in no way, shape or form come even close to getting off the ground.
Tim - I couldn't agree more. Counterintuitively, one of the reasons I was thinking of electric was the lackof sound! That way, I could fly the model at a local part without sound complaints. But that sort of defeats the purpose of this type of model, then, doesn't it?
Dennis - I suppose if I fly it as much as I'd like to, we'd be all out of glow fuel as a human race (!), but I agree. I had a half-a R/C assist model for a while and I just couldn't go through a jug of fuel, so I doubt a 15 or 19 would be that bad. I'll just have to make sure to stock up on wooden props - I've been so used to composite or plastic that I can't remember the last time I broke one !
Nice picture, by the way! I've had the plan set for the Esquire and Whiz Kid for a while now - maybe for the next project...
S. Wallace - Well, it took some searching, but under Ontario bylaw, putting an electric motor in a vintage design RC model is comparable to putting a reed set in a 50 cc 3D aerobat. Punishment is having the jury assign a parole officer fly 24/7 on your channel while you're at the club.
I'm flying from a grass club field, I imagine I might need to hand launch this model anyway, so the fact the model's a taildragger is a plus regardless. Lighter and less draggy, too.
Thanks again for the replies - I'll see if I can get some more pictures up!
Graeme
03-26-2012, 02:45 PM
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RE: Vintage Sig R-C Sport Build Thread
Oh dear.
I've forgotten about this thread.... Which is okay, because I've just bought some covering and am continuing the build as we speak!
Long story short, the model is in exactly the same condition as I left it in the previous post, but I was slightly tied up learning calculus and treating my Twitter / Facebook addiction. Neither have been all that successful.
This St. Patrick's day I was in Traverse City, so I visited my favourite model shop to scout out supplies. Luckily, I remembered my neglected RC Sport and decided to pick up some covering. I noticed a similarly neglected roll of lavender purple Ultracote and decided that this would be the only way to go.
Honestly, I'm not sure why.
It works with black, however, and will at least help this model stand out....
Anyways, covering commences tonight.
A question:
Has anyone covered a dense white foam wing with low temp covering? I've had lots of success covering pink and blue insulation foam wing cores with low temp film, but not foam like this. Is it worth trying, or should I stick to paint? It is a beaded base, but quite smooth and quite tougher than extruded insulation or normal beaded foam.
Thanks!
Graeme
03-26-2012, 03:41 PM
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RE: Vintage Sig R-C Sport Build Thread
Well these are the covering templates I've drawn up (read: hastily scribbled out in the past 5 minutes) to represent the black trim over the lavender (stop laughing...) base colour.
It's a sort of an early 1960's sport model scheme - we'll see how it works out!
03-27-2012, 12:36 PM
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RE: Vintage Sig R-C Sport Build Thread
Well the efforts from last night have left me with both a nicely covered fuselage and horizontal stabiliser. So no fireballs or covering stuck to the floor, then!
Tonight I'm going to finish off the nose area - it needs some more black - and the rudder, elevator halves and vertical stabiliser. As soon as I'm done that, I'm officially at the ARTF stage, and will focus on getting an engine and the landing gear installed.
04-06-2012, 04:38 PM
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RE: Vintage Sig R-C Sport Build Thread
Hey again,
Sorry for the apparent week between posts, but I have now gotten the model into a true "ARTF" stage...Long story short, I ended up using the Ultracote on the foam wing and it turned out quite well. Naturally, it still looks a bit "beaded" up close, but far cleaner than I expected. No wrinkles have shown up since then either, so I'd say it was a success!
Another thing that surprised me was the weight of the components. Doesn't seem to be that much heavier than an all balsa model when jury-rigged together.
Next up will be ordering the engine/electric motor/turbine/mousewheel, depending on my mood towards power setups on smaller models on that given day... Radio equipment will be without a doubt cheap, cheerful and Chinese, but it's all the same anyways. I'd love to put a rudder only setup or galloping ghost, but for now, I wouldn't want to risk such a pretty and purple model. Maybe later?
Progress is still kind of slow, but to be honest, the model sat in a box for 50 years anyways, so the last month or so was a rocket-cheetah powered rickshaw at mach 7 in comparison... or something like that...
Sorry about the quality of the photos. I'd love to pick up a Hasselblad from my local Canadian Tire or Walmart but they were out of stock.