Golden Age, Vintage & Antique RC Want to discuss some of those from the golden age, vintage rc planes or even an old classic antique vintage rc planes, radios, engines, etc? This is the place for you. Enjoy!

Fleet Brotherhood

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Old 11-12-2012, 07:03 AM
  #301
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Default RE: Fleet Brotherhood

Well, I'm back...I think.  Somekind of glitch in the works caused all the replies to anything thing in RCUniverse to come to my home.   I was deleteing up 70 to 90 emails a day. 

Well, RCU killed off E-Gap, and I killed off Fleet and here I am... Kinner.   But , I'm the same

Ray W.
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Old 11-12-2012, 10:29 AM
  #302
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Default RE: Fleet Brotherhood

That's funny, you look the same.

Bob
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Old 11-12-2012, 10:53 AM
  #303
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Default RE: Fleet Brotherhood

Yup, same accent too.

Ray W.
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Old 11-12-2012, 05:34 PM
  #304
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Default RE: Fleet Brotherhood

Hi guys. I got a chance to work on mine this weekend. I don't know if I'm the only one to think there are alot of "fiddly bits" with this kit, but that's what I worked on. Specifically/ the blocking needed around the wing mount spar stubs and other protuberances for the covering to adhere to. Seemed like it took forever. I took a couple of pics.

Now I should be close to covering. I'll be using Koverall. But I'm wondering, if I should try to cover the top and sides with one piece of fabric or to do the sides first then the top, or what. If I do the sides first, it's challenging to cover the top and have an even edge to attach. If I do the top and sides with one piece of fabric, there my be too many wrinkles to try to stretch out. I'd appreciate any advice on this. I've covered numerous airplanes before. but it always seemed there was a edge to trim the covering to...does this make any sense? I have hair setting tape to use for pinked tape, so might be able to cover the raggedy seams.

Dave

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Old 11-13-2012, 09:34 AM
  #305
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Default RE: Fleet Brotherhood

I've covered my Fleets (2) with Koverall and I never found a way to do the top and sides in one piece.  Shrinkage is good with Koverall  but it won't shrink that much. 

Watch around the spar box as the covering has a great shrink factor and may pull loose as you heat the covering.  A good two coats of Balsarite is in order.

Hope this helps

Ray W.   ...aka E-Gap/Fleet
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Old 11-13-2012, 10:34 AM
  #306
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Default RE: Fleet Brotherhood

I have used Koverall just once, and did not have a good experience with it because of shrinkage. (I'm not talking about swimming in cold water.)

I doubt that the sides and top can be covered in one shot because of the taper angle of the fuse along the top, curvature over the rear stringers, and the fairly flat sides. I've tried it with Solartex and I couldn't get it to work because it bunches up at the rear of the cockpit ply and stringer joint when draped over the sides.

What I did was use separate pieces for the cockpit ply top, stringers, sides and bottom. It is easier to get a straight edge with an iron-on because you can control the adhesion point with the iron and then trim to that point. Maybe someone can help you with the Koverall trimming aspect.

Bob
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Old 11-13-2012, 03:39 PM
  #307
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Default RE: Fleet Brotherhood

Thanks for the info. I'm using Stix-it, but will definitely do two coats at those points. I may also try to use Non-tautening dope to keep from over shrinkage. Also may be a problem with the tail surfaces getting warped with over tightening.

After thinking more about this, I remembered a technique I heard about for covering that I might try. You start by measuring the circumference of the fuselage at several points (maybe every 2 inches) along the length of the fuselage. Then lay out a line on the fabric for a centerline then lay out perpendicular lines equal to the length of the circumference at each point. Cut it to width a bit wider than the circumference at each point. Then sew the edges to make a hollow tube. Turn it inside out and slide onto the fuse. I think they use this method for real aircraft sometimes. I just have to convince my wife to get her sewing machine out.

Dave
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Old 11-13-2012, 04:00 PM
  #308
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Default RE: Fleet Brotherhood

Alot of work there. That is the full scale procedure normally. One can buy ready made fuse and wing evelopes that just slip over your framework so all the hand sewing work is done for you.

I started with the top turtle deck and finished off at the first full length stringer and even tucked it under for more security. After a few thinned tack coats of dope lay out the sides. I overlapped the top by at least 1/4 to 3/8 inch and doped (tacked) down with thinned dope (50/50).

When it is time to start filling the weave, I don't use the 50/50 anymore as the thinner will quickly soften your tack coats. 30/60/10 with the 10% being retarder. Just watch carefully for any lifting.

I had a problem with the wing fillers on the fuse. I cut the koverall too short and when I put the heat gun to it, I heard the pull off and had to resort the the pictures shown.

I buy my dope supply from "Aircraft Spruce" and it is most economical way for me. If you need a link, just hollar up.

By the by, I used only Butyrate on this bird. My tinted nitrate went bad (10 years old) so I got thinner and buty non=tautening as well as AN Orange/Yellow color. All color is Butyrate no matter. Now I don't have to run shy of one or the other.






Ray W.
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Old 11-13-2012, 04:33 PM
  #309
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Default RE: Fleet Brotherhood

Hi, Dave. I found that trying to cover too much ground with a single piece of Koveral, is very difficult. i would do the 2 fuse sides, then trim the excess close to the edge of the longerons, the cover the top and bottom fuse panels - trim close to the rounded edge of the longeron - maintain an overlap at the seam, then cover the seam with your pinked tape.
Here's how I make my 1/4 scale pinked tapes. Simplicity rotary cutting machine with "Small Wave" cutting blade. I got this machine a Jo-Ann fabrics when they were having a 50% off sale 2 years ago.Paid $35, it cuts solartex & coverite very well. Pix attached. John R.
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Old 11-13-2012, 05:06 PM
  #310
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Default RE: Fleet Brotherhood

Interesting looking device. I'll be on the lookout for one. 1/3 scale tape works out to be about .66 inch wide. I like Sally's hair tape but it was getting more costly when I could find it. I used the waterproof medical tape on the fuse and horzontal stab but the stuff repells the dope even when thinned.

I resorted to cuttng strips for the aileron and wings and just foregoed the picked edge. Some reinforcing tapes come without pinked edging and my rule of rule of 60/60 just didn't justify any angst over it. (60pmh at 60 foot flyby)

Since the real Fleet use sheet metal screws into the ribs, no stiching was required in full size. Reinforcing tapes top and bottom were. Rudder and fin are stiched as are the stab and elevators.

I can attest, I'll not ever build a plane this big again. (He says that with an upcoming Charlie Kellogg TBF waiting in the wings).


Ray W.
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Old 11-13-2012, 06:52 PM
  #311
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Default RE: Fleet Brotherhood

Ray, I don't think this one is stitched.

Bob
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Old 11-14-2012, 05:03 AM
  #312
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Default RE: Fleet Brotherhood

You could be on to sumpin. I went back and pulled up my photos and the stab could be screwed. Do note, there are 3 riblets between the 3 major ribs in the stab vs. only 2 on the Concept and Ron Wiess copies.

The aileron was done with very close spaced and looks like the cording was run from one knot to another and then tapped over. Just a fastenating thing to look at. The real aileron is hinged by one very long steel rod. On the wing tip, you may see the end of the rod secured by two AN drilled bolts and lockwired. Pull the rod out and the aileron falls to the ground..

Ray W.
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Old 11-14-2012, 06:24 AM
  #313
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Default RE: Fleet Brotherhood

"The real aileron is hinged by one very long steel rod. On the wing tip, you may see the end of the rod secured by two AN drilled bolts and lockwired. Pull the rod out and the aileron falls to the ground."

Ray, I've used this method a few times on various models. As you know, the large Dubro hinges have cotter pins for the pivot point, allowing removal of the control surface. I used a piece of .047 (I think) music wire as a common pivot and threaded it through the hinges. Very convenient to remove the control surfaces.

Bob

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Old 11-14-2012, 06:56 AM
  #314
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Default RE: Fleet Brotherhood

geoardsog5,

Hmmmm. I'm thinkin' I could get a rotary cutting machine for my wife for Christmas...She'll need the small wave cutter too! Found the machine online $79, $8 for the cutter.

I'm guessing the machine works best on fabrics like Coverite that doesn't have a weave like Koverall but have you tried Koverall or other polyester fabric? Maybe if it was pre-doped?

Dave
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Old 11-14-2012, 06:59 AM
  #315
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Default RE: Fleet Brotherhood

i've seen that system used on models as far back as the early 60s. 

The early RC guys had to resort to nylon or brass in the mix  as steel to steel could cause radio interferrance.  

I thought that a bit much until one day I was sitting on the floor with my latest UC ship with flaps connected to elevators for a good stunter.   As I ran the controls through by hand, the TV's picture would have static lines and noise on the screen.  Steel pushrods , steel bellcrank and steel control horns that squeeked a bit.   That was the early 70s when TVs and radios were not as well designed as today.

I was a believer after that.

Ray W.
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Old 11-14-2012, 07:10 AM
  #316
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Default RE: Fleet Brotherhood

dabrown:

I supose I could get my wife interested in sewing but I like your mindset. I think my wife mentioned something about a Colt ACP 1911 that she'd like to see under the tree. I could be wrong but...

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Old 11-19-2012, 11:26 AM
  #317
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Default RE: Fleet Brotherhood



Welp, the big Fleet is on the hush while I get the 1/4 scaler back in the air.

The engine was gone through by BJs Engine Service and I was embarrised by the rusty main bearings. Nice and clean with new rings , et.al. and nicely fit where it had been installed some 15 years ago.

Recommendation by BJenson on twin carb engines is to install a seperate clunk in the tank. A bit of fiddling and cutting and JoiLa... a leaking set of plumbing. I filled it up with some old fuel to check for leakage . Took a bit but it started to trace out so some silicon or sumpin is in order.

I also found an old unused McDaniel twin onbd glow and sent it off to Sonic Tronics the new owner of the same. Told them to make it nearer the newer model that I can use a 6vdc 2000MH battery.

Then, it is sign on to the old club if the'd still have me and fly on.

Ray W.

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Old 11-26-2012, 04:15 PM
  #318
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Default RE: Fleet Brotherhood

Hello All


I hope that maybe you can help me. I am working on a 24inch Fleet from a golden age free flight kit that I will be making RC. It is an early tail version 1-2. I would like to do the Red fuse and silver wings and tail color scheme. I have seen a few models in this color variation but I cannot find any photos of a real one for documentation. Would any of you know where I might be able to find pics of this scheme?


Thanks David
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Old 11-26-2012, 07:59 PM
  #319
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Default RE: Fleet Brotherhood

Hi Bob
Morganflyboy here from New Jersey, I spoke with you several times on the Fleet forum, and I posted Pics of my planes. I am very interested in becoming a Fleet Brother Hood Member, as of right now I have 2 1/4 Scales and one 1/6 Scale Brand New in the box. I think I purchased my first 1/4 Scale Fleet from Roman about 10 years ago, and she is still flying today. His kits will be missed in the market place.

Regards
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Old 11-27-2012, 07:55 AM
  #320
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Default RE: Fleet Brotherhood

As I replied to your PM, you are #24, and welcome.

Bob
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Old 11-27-2012, 08:00 AM
  #321
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Default RE: Fleet Brotherhood

David, if you haven't already tried, search Airliners.net for Fleets.

I haven't come across any with silver wings but I did see this one pictured below.

Bob
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Old 11-27-2012, 05:32 PM
  #322
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Default RE: Fleet Brotherhood

I tried there and did not have much luck. Here are some photos from a different thread. This looks to be the scheme that I am trying to do. The pics are from Nippaero's plane over in the Concept Fleet Biplane thread. http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_36...m.htm#11231606


Thanks David

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Old 11-29-2012, 10:24 AM
  #323
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Default RE: Fleet Brotherhood

Holidays have a way of stalling all projects.

OK, I finally finished painting. All I have left is placing a decal of aircraft specs below the N-strut on the fuselage and applying a mist coat of clear over the decal. After that it is mostly assembly of smaller parts and minor detail construction.

Bob

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Old 11-30-2012, 03:49 PM
  #324
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Default RE: Fleet Brotherhood

Beautiful paint job Bob.....enjoyed watching your you tube demo on wing painting, I will be building a wing and fuse holder as well I think, great idea.
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Old 11-30-2012, 05:15 PM
  #325
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Default RE: Fleet Brotherhood

Yeah, after looking at the painting video again, I can see I had too much pressure at the tip when I applied the paint. One of these days I'd like to try my HVLP gun. A lot less overspray.

I've used that fixture on five paint jobs now and it really makes painting easier. By the way, the lettering and roundels were painted using paint masks. If you ever decide to go that way for insignia, be sure to have fresh masks. I had some leftover masks from a couple of years ago and it was hell trying to get the top layer to release from the mask. They'd been together so long, you'd think they were married.

Bob
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