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Old Tube Stuff

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Old 01-30-2013, 07:16 AM
  #1
crigotti
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Default Old Tube Stuff

I got these at a swap meet and was wondering if these can be made to work.
Babcock BCR-10 receiver
Citizenship FL 27 receiver
Another citizenship? receiver.
Babcock compound escapement
and another escapement

No transmitters.

I'm guessing that this stuff is all superregen stuff.

Any info would be appreciated.
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Old 01-30-2013, 07:54 AM
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Default RE: Old Tube Stuff

I'm certain others, who know much more than I about these , will respond.

Looks like you have one tube receiver (the one with the larger glass tube)..and the others seem to have glass reed switches in them. (smaller glass tubes). These were controlled by single channel tone transmitters.

They can be used... if you find the trannies. ...and if the tube is OK as I am not sure if a new tube is even available. looks like regular regen receivers...and they have transistors on board. Resisters as well as capacitors will drift in value with the age these have on them...and must be checked...sometimes they have to also be replaced.. There are other people on this thread that can do all the above...and carefully restore an old piece of equipment..but without the trannies, probably be best sold to a collector.

If any of the above answers are wrong...one of you thread veterans please correct it...thanks

hope this helps.
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Old 01-30-2013, 02:44 PM
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Default RE: Old Tube Stuff



-If it uses 72Mhz it would be completely illegal as it would interfere with other channels. 1991? was a big change in freq spacing.

Googled and I guess it's 27Mhz. Why would you want to?

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Old 01-30-2013, 04:16 PM
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Default RE: Old Tube Stuff

Yes, those are super-regen receivers, must likely on 27 MHz (Was 27MC when they were developed). The tubes are probably RK61 or 1AG4. As far as I know, no superhet receivers for RC were made with tubes. Most likely they were made in the early 50's for 27.255 MHz. 27.255 was allocated in 1952. The other 5 frequencies on 27 were allowed starting in 1958. Even the first transistor receivers were super-regen. Typically, you had to tune the receiver and transmitter each day you tried to fly. They could be made to work as well as they did when they were developed if you want to spend the time. Reliability is nothing compared to modern equipment.
I recommend you keep them for historical reasons.
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Old 01-30-2013, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: iflyj3

Yes, those are super-regen receivers, must likely on 27 MHz (Was 27MC when they were developed). The tubes are probably RK61 or 1AG4. As far as I know, no superhet receivers for RC were made with tubes. Most likely they were made in the early 50's for 27.255 MHz. 27.255 was allocated in 1952. The other 5 frequencies on 27 were allowed starting in 1958. Even the first transistor receivers were super-regen. Typically, you had to tune the receiver and transmitter each day you tried to fly. They could be made to work as well as they did when they were developed if you want to spend the time. Reliability is nothing compared to modern equipment.
I recommend you keep them for historical reasons.
Thanks Dan. They are cool to look at!
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Old 01-30-2013, 08:18 PM
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Default RE: Old Tube Stuff

Quote:
As far as I know, no superhet receivers for RC were made with tubes.
There was at least one commerical unit that used tubes, but transistors had finally made it in most circuits by 1958.
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Old 01-31-2013, 04:35 AM
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Default RE: Old Tube Stuff

I have a Lorenz 61 RX that I built in 1954 or so. I need the RK 61 tube. Anyone have one? Thanks. I also have a Babcock escapement NIB if anyone needs one. Thanks
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Old 01-31-2013, 05:06 AM
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Default RE: Old Tube Stuff

HP, isn't that what one of your early radios?
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Old 01-31-2013, 05:18 AM
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Default RE: Old Tube Stuff

crigotti in post 1 you wrote, "Any info would be appreciated."!

So for who is interested, in general "The Superregen". Short explanation in "Coal English" , keep in mind, the story can be much longer!

Superregen

Superregen is related to the detector system used in these receivers.
Needed for a detector is one active element, for example a radio tube or a transistor. Normally one activ element is used, sometimes two.

The output signal of the detector is clean as a carrier wave of a transmitter is received . It can be your own transmitter that is transmitting but also another(s) transmitter within the limits of selectivity of the detector.

The output signal is "noisy" when no signal is received.

The earliest receivers did activate the output relay depending of yes or no a signal was received. The carrier wave was switched 'on' and 'off;. Photograph 1 can be such a carrier wave receiver.

To activate a relay some kind of amplifier is needed to gain the detector signal This can be done by a second radiotube or a few (normally 2) transistors. In photograph 1 we see these two transistors.
Photograph 2 shows a receiver that seemingly has one tube but no amplifier! I think this is a carrierwave receiver too, but the amplifier located in the tube. A double triode for example.

Only the carrier wave to transmit information does have the disadvantage the receiver is sensitive for any signal within the bandwith, so later we see tone (selective) systems. The carrier wave is continue transmtted and a tone is amplitude modulated on this carrier wave when a command is needed. The selectivity for tone frequencies can be choosen so a part of false information can be eliminated.
A tone modulated system can be faster because the carrier wave doesn't have to be switched. The receiver of photograph 3 is probably such a receiver for a tone modulated signal. The transmitter does need some more power for continue tranmitting od the carrier wave!

Still all regenerative receivers, but more complicated than the shown examples.

Latest generation of these kind of receivers could be 12 channel tones selective. Two systems were used to detect the tone channel. a tone selective filters or, b reed relais. Some regeneratative receivers were equiped with an antenna preamplifier to have better receiver capabilities.

When showing top and bottom of the circuit boards it's possible to redraw the diagrams. Seeing the photographs receivers 1 and 2 do show up as carrier wave receivers so the simpliest transmitter is needed to operated. Receiver 3 probably for a tone modulated signal, often at a frequency of about 400 Hz but also can be of higher values. I think this receiver is more or less sensitive for any tone.

Test of th functionality can be done with, for example, use of a (grid)dipper.

Cees
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Old 01-31-2013, 11:49 AM
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Default RE: Old Tube Stuff

The first picture is a Babcock Magic Carpet receiver and I beleve most were built from kits my kit was purchased from Reginald Dennys hobby shop on hollywood blvd. around 1957 and I still have the full system.

I beleve all those units sold were on 27.255 which is still a legal frequency on the 27Mhz air and ground shared band. It is the old Blue Flag or the current #6.

The last picture is the matching Babcock MK11 compound escapement.

Just for giggles the matching transmitter to the Magic Carpet receiver was called the Magic Wand transmitter.


John
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Old 01-31-2013, 07:34 PM
  #11
crigotti
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Default RE: Old Tube Stuff

Thanks guys for all the comments and info.

I forgot to add this Aristo-Craft Wavemaster 2 tube receiver. Yes, it's NIB!

Fun just learning about this stuff.

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Old 01-31-2013, 07:56 PM
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Default RE: Old Tube Stuff

Spaceworm,

I would be interested in the Babcock Escapement if you still have it. I have a deBolt Rebel that needs one.

You can contact me at the email address below.

Cheers, Stan

sta_eng@yahoo.com
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Old 01-31-2013, 09:59 PM
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Default RE: Old Tube Stuff

Quote:
ORIGINAL: spaceworm

I have a Lorenz 61 RX that I built in 1954 or so. I need the RK 61 tube. Anyone have one? Thanks. I also have a Babcock escapement NIB if anyone needs one. Thanks
http://www.tubesandmore.com/products/T-rk61
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