Gilmore Red Lion Build
02-03-2015, 01:21 PM
#127
Chris
Thanks for posting those shots of the tail.
When I get home I will look at them closely.
I'm in the middle of developing the ribs.
What I have so far are the leading edge and the bump,
but have been uncertain of what to do with trailing edge.
This will help a lot.
Thank you
Kevin
Thanks for posting those shots of the tail.
When I get home I will look at them closely.
I'm in the middle of developing the ribs.
What I have so far are the leading edge and the bump,
but have been uncertain of what to do with trailing edge.
This will help a lot.
Thank you
Kevin
The trailing edge of the stab was probably a half round to match the tubing of the leading edge of the elevator. This is typical construction of the time period with high speed airplanes. On the Staggerwing thisis made up of a composite of tubing or wooden trailing edge spar (depending on the model) and then the half round formed from wooden pieces to form the half round shape. The hinges are straps mounted on the stab and wrap around the tube of the elevator's leading edge. It made an airtight hingeline. Note that all of the bolt heads and wire intersections are faired with wooden streamlining and the stab inersection faired on the real racer, the replicas were not nearly as fine in these details.
Chris...
02-03-2015, 01:28 PM
#128
But when seeing the only real one left compared to two modern replicas one gets the idea the old one is what one would strive for the model to look like if wanting the original look.
Chris...
02-03-2015, 04:06 PM
#131
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02-03-2015, 04:22 PM
#132
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Hi Kevin,
The trailing edge of the stab was probably a half round to match the tubing of the leading edge of the elevator. This is typical construction of the time period with high speed airplanes. On the Staggerwing thisis made up of a composite of tubing or wooden trailing edge spar (depending on the model) and then the half round formed from wooden pieces to form the half round shape. The hinges are straps mounted on the stab and wrap around the tube of the elevator's leading edge. It made an airtight hingeline. Note that all of the bolt heads and wire intersections are faired with wooden streamlining and the stab inersection faired on the real racer, the replicas were not nearly as fine in these details.
Chris...
The trailing edge of the stab was probably a half round to match the tubing of the leading edge of the elevator. This is typical construction of the time period with high speed airplanes. On the Staggerwing thisis made up of a composite of tubing or wooden trailing edge spar (depending on the model) and then the half round formed from wooden pieces to form the half round shape. The hinges are straps mounted on the stab and wrap around the tube of the elevator's leading edge. It made an airtight hingeline. Note that all of the bolt heads and wire intersections are faired with wooden streamlining and the stab inersection faired on the real racer, the replicas were not nearly as fine in these details.
Chris...
No grantees, just pondering
Kevin
02-03-2015, 07:23 PM
#133
02-03-2015, 08:20 PM
#135
Hi Kevin,
Using plastic spoons with the handles sanded off flush with the spoon's edge are used to streamline bolts and screws on airplanes sometimes. I used to race my Pitts Special and this was a typical technique, as well as other hobby shop staples like canopies to cover fuel drains and the like! Miles of 3M tape are used during air race week at Reno as well for attaching these things, and sealing the edges of panels and opening, hingelines, etc.
In the old days bass wood was carved to shape and fabric tape was glued over it during the covering and painting of the airplane to create the type of fairings showed on the original Wedell Williams photos.
Chris...
Using plastic spoons with the handles sanded off flush with the spoon's edge are used to streamline bolts and screws on airplanes sometimes. I used to race my Pitts Special and this was a typical technique, as well as other hobby shop staples like canopies to cover fuel drains and the like! Miles of 3M tape are used during air race week at Reno as well for attaching these things, and sealing the edges of panels and opening, hingelines, etc.
In the old days bass wood was carved to shape and fabric tape was glued over it during the covering and painting of the airplane to create the type of fairings showed on the original Wedell Williams photos.
Chris...
02-06-2015, 08:10 PM
#141
Well Kevin your work is interesting to say the least, not to mention the way this bird has of kinda grabbing your interest and it's not even my kind of plane from a building stand point, however I do enjoy watching others build theirs.
Very nice work Kevin , you are gaining a nice knack with your quality presentation.
Leroy
Very nice work Kevin , you are gaining a nice knack with your quality presentation.
Leroy
02-07-2015, 03:28 PM
#142
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Thank You Leroy, your posts are always thoughtful
I managed to get the rear stab framed up. Still needs cap strips, hinge blocks, shaping, flying wire mounts,and support at fuse mount.
I used 1/8 balsa for the ribs but clad them both sides with 1/32 ply. They just seemed to dainty not to strengthen them.
Weight weenies I beg your forgiveness. I just can't help myself
The trailing edge was made from laminated 1/8 balsa.
I always cut my lumber oversize so that the internal stresses can move whatever way it will (curve,bow).
Then will join an edge straight and rip other edge parallel. I did this with the trailing edge and had a perfectly straight stick.
When The angles and plow were cut the stick bowed anyway. Good example of internal stressed in wood. Moister content and species plays a role in this.
I used it anyway thinking the frame up would keep it straight. It didn't
When I took the stab off the table the trailing edge had a bow that got worse.
To correct this I had a piece of aspen that had a nice settle bow in it about the same as the trailing edge.
A 1/4 by 1/4 dado was cut into the back of the trailing edge. And a 1/4 by 1/4 bowed aspen was glued in with its bow opposite trailing edge.
I used a 3/16 carbon fiber tube for a spar.
It was a struggle to get everything to fit well and tight.
Kevin
I managed to get the rear stab framed up. Still needs cap strips, hinge blocks, shaping, flying wire mounts,and support at fuse mount.
I used 1/8 balsa for the ribs but clad them both sides with 1/32 ply. They just seemed to dainty not to strengthen them.
Weight weenies I beg your forgiveness. I just can't help myself
The trailing edge was made from laminated 1/8 balsa.
I always cut my lumber oversize so that the internal stresses can move whatever way it will (curve,bow).
Then will join an edge straight and rip other edge parallel. I did this with the trailing edge and had a perfectly straight stick.
When The angles and plow were cut the stick bowed anyway. Good example of internal stressed in wood. Moister content and species plays a role in this.
I used it anyway thinking the frame up would keep it straight. It didn't
When I took the stab off the table the trailing edge had a bow that got worse.
To correct this I had a piece of aspen that had a nice settle bow in it about the same as the trailing edge.
A 1/4 by 1/4 dado was cut into the back of the trailing edge. And a 1/4 by 1/4 bowed aspen was glued in with its bow opposite trailing edge.
I used a 3/16 carbon fiber tube for a spar.
It was a struggle to get everything to fit well and tight.
Kevin
Last edited by Melchizedek; 02-07-2015 at 03:34 PM.
02-07-2015, 04:41 PM
#144
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I like your placement of carbon and the size and type. As for weight, don't worry about it. A scale build needs to be heavier to have closer to scale characteristics in and of flight. I am sure you are aware of my current builds recommended weight of 32lbs and the actual finished weight of 42lbs. All my builds go over at about the same rate and they all fly great.
02-07-2015, 05:55 PM
#145
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Thanks, Anthony
Robert, I knew what I wanted to do on the leading edge but was unsure on size of tube.
With the tube, I wasn't sure about flex vs size vs weight. So I ordered a few sizes to have a look see.
Nothing like having stuff in your hand.
As for the stuff I didn't use. Nothing like having stuff in reserve for you never know.
Kevin
Robert, I knew what I wanted to do on the leading edge but was unsure on size of tube.
With the tube, I wasn't sure about flex vs size vs weight. So I ordered a few sizes to have a look see.
Nothing like having stuff in your hand.
As for the stuff I didn't use. Nothing like having stuff in reserve for you never know.
Kevin
02-08-2015, 03:32 AM
#146
Well done Kevin, I very much like how it all came together. It appears to be very strong! This all get sheeted or not? I always like to have "stuff" on hand as well, 'cause you never know when and how you will use it, and it sure beats having to go to the LHS.
Last edited by VincentJ; 02-08-2015 at 03:34 AM.
02-08-2015, 04:14 AM
#147
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Just cap strips on the ribs. I may put just a narrow band on the leading edge to lock the ribs into the leading edge, right now it's just a but joint.
The ribs at the trailing edge are locked in a channel with a key between each rib. It did turn out very strong.
Kevin
The ribs at the trailing edge are locked in a channel with a key between each rib. It did turn out very strong.
Kevin
02-08-2015, 06:35 AM
#148
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Well I have been sitting in my easy chair this morning sipping coffee and pondering what to do about the hinging on the elev/rudder.
I really wanted to do the strap hinges like the original. First thought was tube in leading edge and aluminum strap.
This seemed problematic with getting tight tolerances and nice and easy glide. Doable but not really liking this approach.
Then by the 2nd cup it hit me.
Make the strap out of CF/FG and mold it perfect around the leading edge tube.
First make a jig out of a piece of 1/2 tube. Then let the tube into the edge of a 1/2 board so that the flat part of the strap has a surface to form on.
Put some thin tape down first to create a tolerance. Then the low friction tape. Then mold the strap hinge over that.
Should make a perfect strap hinge for said tube. After strap is cut to size then the inside is lined with the low friction tape.
At first I thought of a 1/2 inch CF tube. But judging by the weight of the 3/16 tube used in the stab it could get heavy.
Will go the LHS and see if they have 1/2 inch aluminum tube and check that for weight.
Since I have some materials to acquire. The stab gets set aside and will start back on the 2nd wing panel.
Kevin
I really wanted to do the strap hinges like the original. First thought was tube in leading edge and aluminum strap.
This seemed problematic with getting tight tolerances and nice and easy glide. Doable but not really liking this approach.
Then by the 2nd cup it hit me.
Make the strap out of CF/FG and mold it perfect around the leading edge tube.
First make a jig out of a piece of 1/2 tube. Then let the tube into the edge of a 1/2 board so that the flat part of the strap has a surface to form on.
Put some thin tape down first to create a tolerance. Then the low friction tape. Then mold the strap hinge over that.
Should make a perfect strap hinge for said tube. After strap is cut to size then the inside is lined with the low friction tape.
At first I thought of a 1/2 inch CF tube. But judging by the weight of the 3/16 tube used in the stab it could get heavy.
Will go the LHS and see if they have 1/2 inch aluminum tube and check that for weight.
Since I have some materials to acquire. The stab gets set aside and will start back on the 2nd wing panel.
Kevin