Gilmore Red Lion Build
#327
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Thanks a million for your kind offer Robert. However, I am invested in the rout I have begun and will press on.
Iteration 3 is in the bag. Making sure both 6 oz plys were down (as I was negligent in iter 2) and then manipulation of bag and breather cloth ( thumb deeply planted in big end, pinky implanted in small end) then pump on. I believe I have solid press up.
I added another parting plane at the opening of the cowl mold because I want a flange there.
I then waxed on, waxed off Danielson, X 3 then pva. Then applied Jell Coat.
Off to layup last part of cowl mold. WooHoo !!!
Kevin
Iteration 3 is in the bag. Making sure both 6 oz plys were down (as I was negligent in iter 2) and then manipulation of bag and breather cloth ( thumb deeply planted in big end, pinky implanted in small end) then pump on. I believe I have solid press up.
I added another parting plane at the opening of the cowl mold because I want a flange there.
I then waxed on, waxed off Danielson, X 3 then pva. Then applied Jell Coat.
Off to layup last part of cowl mold. WooHoo !!!
Kevin
#328
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Sounds like you have it well I in hand. And I know exactly how you feel about press on, my canopy currently is worth around $300 and still more to come. Maybe we want what we want to much....
#329
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Ok, cowl mold complete. It took a lot longer than I thought.
After Jell Coat. I mixed up some chopped CF and epoxy to make a fillet in the two corners.
Then 6 oz 6 inch wide overlapping strips front to back up and on flange.
Then 6 oz around twice. Then two layers of 6 oz on both flanges up lapping the side about an inch with second layer overlapping joints of first.
Then honeycomb on matting flange, then 2 more layers 6 oz over honeycomb in same fashion as first two.
Then flipped over and two layers of 6 oz on cowl opening flange overlapping side like matting flange.
Then for good measure I wanted to make sure the conical wall stayed straight. I cut a heavy cardboard tube in half to make uprights for sides.
I then epoxied them inside and out. Then glassed them to the sides of the cone.
It sure aint pretty but I think it will be durable.
Can you tell I didn't have anything heavier than 6 oz ?
Tomorrow I get to find out if I did everything right. Boy I sure hope so (understatement ).
Oh yea, Do you remember the blister ? How could you forget ?
I am happy to report. Recipe found.
Good layup and light weight. The battery on my scale is dead so full report will have to wait.
2 layers of 6 oz it will be. It is plenty stout. Cant stand on it, but you can't have everything.
OnWard
Kevin
After Jell Coat. I mixed up some chopped CF and epoxy to make a fillet in the two corners.
Then 6 oz 6 inch wide overlapping strips front to back up and on flange.
Then 6 oz around twice. Then two layers of 6 oz on both flanges up lapping the side about an inch with second layer overlapping joints of first.
Then honeycomb on matting flange, then 2 more layers 6 oz over honeycomb in same fashion as first two.
Then flipped over and two layers of 6 oz on cowl opening flange overlapping side like matting flange.
Then for good measure I wanted to make sure the conical wall stayed straight. I cut a heavy cardboard tube in half to make uprights for sides.
I then epoxied them inside and out. Then glassed them to the sides of the cone.
It sure aint pretty but I think it will be durable.
Can you tell I didn't have anything heavier than 6 oz ?
Tomorrow I get to find out if I did everything right. Boy I sure hope so (understatement ).
Oh yea, Do you remember the blister ? How could you forget ?
I am happy to report. Recipe found.
Good layup and light weight. The battery on my scale is dead so full report will have to wait.
2 layers of 6 oz it will be. It is plenty stout. Cant stand on it, but you can't have everything.
OnWard
Kevin
#330
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Plug has been pulled from mold.
Plug was destroyed though. Can't say I would have saved it but it was a little heartbreaking .
Turns out I had sanded a slight undercut at the opening of the cowl ring.
It took a blast of air in the centering hole to break the ring mold free with the top of the plug still in it.
The top of the plug would spin in the mold but had to break it free.
I am kicking myself for forgetting to mold in the alignment buttons. 2 of the 3 I glued on broke free of the ring mold.
Small mistake in the whole scheme of things.
After thoughts.
1. the Jell coat should of been applied thicker. Although black Jell Coat on a black grey plug is hard to tell how thick a coat is.
You can see though the jell coat in the light. The surface is slick and smooth though.
2. The number and weight of the cloth on the sides probably would have not been enough had I not added the insurance of the half round tubes.
The tubes turned out the be a saving grace (state farm double check). The wall between the tube is self supporting but flexible. I will reinforce
the wall before molding the cowl. The top ring is very stout. I attribute this to the shape. A tight compound curve of any structure is stronger than a
simple curve of same material.
3. DO NOT start mold making unless there is no other agenda that day. Yesterday I began molding at about 1 with a 5 oclock dinner engagement
looming. At about 3:30 I began to feel rushed. At 4:20 I heard " honey it's 4:20" Boy I wished I had begun this earlier. I was rushed to the end and
was 1/2 hour late for dinner. Not a desirable situation and could have paid a steep price. But I got away with it. Captain lucky rides again
Results
Kevin
Plug was destroyed though. Can't say I would have saved it but it was a little heartbreaking .
Turns out I had sanded a slight undercut at the opening of the cowl ring.
It took a blast of air in the centering hole to break the ring mold free with the top of the plug still in it.
The top of the plug would spin in the mold but had to break it free.
I am kicking myself for forgetting to mold in the alignment buttons. 2 of the 3 I glued on broke free of the ring mold.
Small mistake in the whole scheme of things.
After thoughts.
1. the Jell coat should of been applied thicker. Although black Jell Coat on a black grey plug is hard to tell how thick a coat is.
You can see though the jell coat in the light. The surface is slick and smooth though.
2. The number and weight of the cloth on the sides probably would have not been enough had I not added the insurance of the half round tubes.
The tubes turned out the be a saving grace (state farm double check). The wall between the tube is self supporting but flexible. I will reinforce
the wall before molding the cowl. The top ring is very stout. I attribute this to the shape. A tight compound curve of any structure is stronger than a
simple curve of same material.
3. DO NOT start mold making unless there is no other agenda that day. Yesterday I began molding at about 1 with a 5 oclock dinner engagement
looming. At about 3:30 I began to feel rushed. At 4:20 I heard " honey it's 4:20" Boy I wished I had begun this earlier. I was rushed to the end and
was 1/2 hour late for dinner. Not a desirable situation and could have paid a steep price. But I got away with it. Captain lucky rides again
Results
Kevin
Last edited by Melchizedek; 05-10-2015 at 07:36 AM.
#332
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Thank you Steve,
Just so you know. Capt Lucky is not me. Capt Lucky is like Capt America. He rides in to save the day.
One of these days he won't be there, he will be busy saving someone else's day.
Coming forecast ? Along with the coming cowl layup and the 18 little minions .
The wheel pants will be shaped and then set in a jig to get the geometry of the landing gear correct.
Looking forward to this part. Been pondering it for awhile.
Kevin
Just so you know. Capt Lucky is not me. Capt Lucky is like Capt America. He rides in to save the day.
One of these days he won't be there, he will be busy saving someone else's day.
Coming forecast ? Along with the coming cowl layup and the 18 little minions .
The wheel pants will be shaped and then set in a jig to get the geometry of the landing gear correct.
Looking forward to this part. Been pondering it for awhile.
Kevin
#334
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Thanks, Mike
As you all know the cowl plug was made mostly of foam. Hold with one hand sand with other.
Since the wheel pants are MDF. Shaping them will take quit a bit more effort.
So they needed to be held steady whilst I commit acts of violence to them.
The pants sit tail slightly up with the datum line. I thought it best to mount them for shaping in that attitude.
So I built a jig to slot the bottom at 90 degs to the datum line. The jig holds them level and also has a built in template on top for routing the slot. The slot is 2 inches deepl
I then cut some poplar to fit snugly into the slots. When the boards are mounted plumb the pants are at the correct posture. The pants can be removed easily from the mount boards when necessary yet hold them firm when hogging material off them.
Next a sturdy base to secure the boards then shaping can take place.
Kevin
As you all know the cowl plug was made mostly of foam. Hold with one hand sand with other.
Since the wheel pants are MDF. Shaping them will take quit a bit more effort.
So they needed to be held steady whilst I commit acts of violence to them.
The pants sit tail slightly up with the datum line. I thought it best to mount them for shaping in that attitude.
So I built a jig to slot the bottom at 90 degs to the datum line. The jig holds them level and also has a built in template on top for routing the slot. The slot is 2 inches deepl
I then cut some poplar to fit snugly into the slots. When the boards are mounted plumb the pants are at the correct posture. The pants can be removed easily from the mount boards when necessary yet hold them firm when hogging material off them.
Next a sturdy base to secure the boards then shaping can take place.
Kevin
Last edited by Melchizedek; 05-12-2015 at 06:16 PM.
#335
My Feedback: (6)
That is going to take some time to shape MDF but it will be worth it. Stupid question, couldn't you make one plug and then make the strut cover a separate piece with left and right versions as need? The pants themselves look identical to me. Also will the strut cover be a one piece or are you using an oleo style strut and require a two piece arrangement?
#336
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Mike,
Two reasons to make two. The outside of each spat has a hub cap like disc. I intend to mold that into the spat. I could just add it after the fact but I would rather mold it in for strength. Also the lower part of the strut cover will be molded into the spat. This will make right left inside halves. The upper strut cover is not affixed to the fuse. It will attach to the lower strut cover that is molded in to the spat. The upper strut cover has to flex quite a bit to get over the gear wire bend. If it had the lower fillet molded into it, it might not flex that much.
Look at the gear detail as per plan.
I made the mounts to support the blanks so they can be shaped.
This should aid in making them symmetrical and holding them firm.
Kevin
Two reasons to make two. The outside of each spat has a hub cap like disc. I intend to mold that into the spat. I could just add it after the fact but I would rather mold it in for strength. Also the lower part of the strut cover will be molded into the spat. This will make right left inside halves. The upper strut cover is not affixed to the fuse. It will attach to the lower strut cover that is molded in to the spat. The upper strut cover has to flex quite a bit to get over the gear wire bend. If it had the lower fillet molded into it, it might not flex that much.
Look at the gear detail as per plan.
I made the mounts to support the blanks so they can be shaped.
This should aid in making them symmetrical and holding them firm.
Kevin
#341
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I had been waiting all week (with trepidation) to lay up the cowl.
Time frame on Sat/Sun was going to be iffy. This was not something I wanted to be rushed or interrupted.
So I thought nobody ever needs me In the late PM early AM. So I went to work on it right after dinner. Finished up a t 3:15 AM.
When I got everything set up and started laying the glass. I was having difficulty getting the glass to lay in that tight crevice at the nose.
My first thought was, "this was going to be one giant mulligan !" (that's the rated "G" suitable for all audiences version). All positive vibes left the room and Capt Lucky was in the Bahamas on vacation.
This is when you have to think like Winston Churchill. "Never give up,Never surrender," So I pressed on.
Once I got the second layer of cloth down things felt a lot better and the negative vibes faded. Hope began to spring .
I started with the nose with quarter donut shaped cloth. Laying one quadrant at a time over lapping the edges. This ran about 2 inches up the side also. Then wrapped the wall with one continuous layer of cloth this overlapping the donuts at the nose. This completed the first layer.
I then laid 8 inch bands at 45 degrees from the opening all the way down covering every thing, all edges overlapping. Then did another layer of 1/4 donuts in the nose ring, then another complete wrap of the cowl wall.
Everything got 3 layers of 6 oz with extra where it overlapped.
This was the major blemish. Considering the trouble I had getting the cloth lay down here, I AM ELATED
A Little bondo will make this go away in short order. The rest of that edge is solid.
This cowl is huge !!!. The circumference is 48 inches.
The shoe is on top to give perspective. That is a size 10 shoe.
The front wring is stout as all get out. The rear opening is a little more flexible than I would like. I will probably run a band of CF around to opening to stiffen it up.
I am very happy with the result.
Kevin
Time frame on Sat/Sun was going to be iffy. This was not something I wanted to be rushed or interrupted.
So I thought nobody ever needs me In the late PM early AM. So I went to work on it right after dinner. Finished up a t 3:15 AM.
When I got everything set up and started laying the glass. I was having difficulty getting the glass to lay in that tight crevice at the nose.
My first thought was, "this was going to be one giant mulligan !" (that's the rated "G" suitable for all audiences version). All positive vibes left the room and Capt Lucky was in the Bahamas on vacation.
This is when you have to think like Winston Churchill. "Never give up,Never surrender," So I pressed on.
Once I got the second layer of cloth down things felt a lot better and the negative vibes faded. Hope began to spring .
I started with the nose with quarter donut shaped cloth. Laying one quadrant at a time over lapping the edges. This ran about 2 inches up the side also. Then wrapped the wall with one continuous layer of cloth this overlapping the donuts at the nose. This completed the first layer.
I then laid 8 inch bands at 45 degrees from the opening all the way down covering every thing, all edges overlapping. Then did another layer of 1/4 donuts in the nose ring, then another complete wrap of the cowl wall.
Everything got 3 layers of 6 oz with extra where it overlapped.
This was the major blemish. Considering the trouble I had getting the cloth lay down here, I AM ELATED
A Little bondo will make this go away in short order. The rest of that edge is solid.
This cowl is huge !!!. The circumference is 48 inches.
The shoe is on top to give perspective. That is a size 10 shoe.
The front wring is stout as all get out. The rear opening is a little more flexible than I would like. I will probably run a band of CF around to opening to stiffen it up.
I am very happy with the result.
Kevin
#342
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Looks fantastic Kevin. That little spot is easily filled.
Next time try putting a thick coat of resin in those hard corner/curves let it get tacky add another coat then start laying up the glass. I use a thickener on the first and second gel coat just for that reason.
Next time try putting a thick coat of resin in those hard corner/curves let it get tacky add another coat then start laying up the glass. I use a thickener on the first and second gel coat just for that reason.
#344
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Thank you Robert and Steve.
Steve, I struggled all the way through with outcome in doubt. Very thankful with the result.
Robert,
Yes, next time will deal with the crevices differently. I am learning a lot along the way.
I only used 1 gel coat. Didn't think to add another. Will put that in my tool box for next time.
Kevin
Steve, I struggled all the way through with outcome in doubt. Very thankful with the result.
Robert,
Yes, next time will deal with the crevices differently. I am learning a lot along the way.
I only used 1 gel coat. Didn't think to add another. Will put that in my tool box for next time.
Kevin
#346
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Thank You Pete,
As I said in my last post I thought the back of the cowl was a little to flexy.
So last night I put the cowl back in the mold and wrapped the inside opening with two layers of 2 inch wide CF.
In the 2nd pic the full weight of the cowl is being held by the rim. Almost no deflection.
I the CF cause it sets up stiffer than glass.
Kevin
As I said in my last post I thought the back of the cowl was a little to flexy.
So last night I put the cowl back in the mold and wrapped the inside opening with two layers of 2 inch wide CF.
In the 2nd pic the full weight of the cowl is being held by the rim. Almost no deflection.
I the CF cause it sets up stiffer than glass.
Kevin
#347
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Went to work shaping the wheel pants today.
A big hat tip to Pete / Rocketman. The plans only have a front view and side view of the wheel pants.
He took the time to take some pics of his pants (top and bot view) and send them to me. Thank You Pete.
I made a front view profile template off the drawings. I then used a belt sander with 60 grit and a surform to rough shape them.
Using the template to check often to make sure to shape evenly and not over sand. I roughed them down until I had about a 1/4 inch left to remove then stopped. I then made a sanding block from template and sanded the top shape to profile.
Then used a sanding jig to sand the top profile to shape.
The bottom profile was shaped with a 1 inch round over with only 13/16 of the round over cutting. This gave the arched bottom shape.
I stopped the RO shy of the front and back and then tapered those parts in by sanding.
At this point I was beat. been sanding for about 6 hours. I was also overjoyed with how they looked.
Took a shower then sat down and took another look at the photos Pete sent. Oh Poo .
The noses are to blunt. The front profile and side profile are right but the noses should be more slender left to right.
More work needs to be done. Have about 10 hrs total so far in the pants.
Oh well, the heavy lifting is done. Should be short work to true them in. But not today.
Kevin
A big hat tip to Pete / Rocketman. The plans only have a front view and side view of the wheel pants.
He took the time to take some pics of his pants (top and bot view) and send them to me. Thank You Pete.
I made a front view profile template off the drawings. I then used a belt sander with 60 grit and a surform to rough shape them.
Using the template to check often to make sure to shape evenly and not over sand. I roughed them down until I had about a 1/4 inch left to remove then stopped. I then made a sanding block from template and sanded the top shape to profile.
Then used a sanding jig to sand the top profile to shape.
The bottom profile was shaped with a 1 inch round over with only 13/16 of the round over cutting. This gave the arched bottom shape.
I stopped the RO shy of the front and back and then tapered those parts in by sanding.
At this point I was beat. been sanding for about 6 hours. I was also overjoyed with how they looked.
Took a shower then sat down and took another look at the photos Pete sent. Oh Poo .
The noses are to blunt. The front profile and side profile are right but the noses should be more slender left to right.
More work needs to be done. Have about 10 hrs total so far in the pants.
Oh well, the heavy lifting is done. Should be short work to true them in. But not today.
Kevin
#349
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Yep, you nailed it Robert
Just could not leave it that way. You might agree when you see the pics.
Here is a top view of Pete's pants and a side view of the replica in the museum.
Now Wendell's cross section I think is a little wider proportionately than Pete's pant. I am going to stick with Wendell's cross section witch will preclude getting Pete's shape on the money. But the shape I had was far to blunt. Also if you look at the replica, that hub cap has a distinct turn in toward the front. My pant flattened out far to soon. The first pic below is the pant before alteration. It looks a little torpedic. The one next to it is after adjusting the plan view.
The difference is settle but distinct. As I am looking at it I might also tapper the tail sooner. Will ponder it
It is far easier to cut the plan view when all the edges are square. So after pondering it for a while I came up with a plan.
I cut a new profile out of 1/4 inch mdf. Then centered each spat over it and shimmed the spat so the datum line was level.
Then used the disc sander and a bright light to sand spat to new profile. Once the spat got ground down close to the template size I penciled the edge of the template and sanded the spat until the pencil was brushed off.
With the template it was easy to get them both symmetrical.
Once all the edge get feathered into each other It will look much better.
But not tonight.
Please opine if the shape looks amiss. Every time I look at it I get different conclusion.
Kevin
Just could not leave it that way. You might agree when you see the pics.
Here is a top view of Pete's pants and a side view of the replica in the museum.
Now Wendell's cross section I think is a little wider proportionately than Pete's pant. I am going to stick with Wendell's cross section witch will preclude getting Pete's shape on the money. But the shape I had was far to blunt. Also if you look at the replica, that hub cap has a distinct turn in toward the front. My pant flattened out far to soon. The first pic below is the pant before alteration. It looks a little torpedic. The one next to it is after adjusting the plan view.
The difference is settle but distinct. As I am looking at it I might also tapper the tail sooner. Will ponder it
It is far easier to cut the plan view when all the edges are square. So after pondering it for a while I came up with a plan.
I cut a new profile out of 1/4 inch mdf. Then centered each spat over it and shimmed the spat so the datum line was level.
Then used the disc sander and a bright light to sand spat to new profile. Once the spat got ground down close to the template size I penciled the edge of the template and sanded the spat until the pencil was brushed off.
With the template it was easy to get them both symmetrical.
Once all the edge get feathered into each other It will look much better.
But not tonight.
Please opine if the shape looks amiss. Every time I look at it I get different conclusion.
Kevin
Last edited by Melchizedek; 05-18-2015 at 03:43 PM.