acerc

I know the boat your in, pun intended, and it is a fantastic ride, very fulfilling!

acerc

Now!
It has been six days since posting the molds done. "Where are the parts"? LOL!

Melchizedek

There in a liquid state.

Fist jell coat

There is a funny reflection going on in the 2 back molds. Pay no attention



Kevin

Melchizedek

4 layers of 3oz glass.
The side with the cuff was a bugger. Multiple pieces and a bugger getting inside the cuff.

Waiting for the glass to get stiff, then will clean up flush to the flange. At least that's the plan anyway.



Kevin

acerc

I know it's a bit late but a bit of vacuum bagging would have worked real well. Look's good, patiently waiting for recognizable parts. You know what I mean...

Melchizedek

I thought about vacuum but the cuffs made that problematic.
Especially since I chickened out on the alignment bumps on that two part mold.
Parts in the morning.

Glass has been trimmed flush with the flanges. Will pop parts out in the morning.
Hopefully they will be stiff enough. If not I can stick them back in the molds and add weight.



Kevin

acerc

So far so good.

Melchizedek

Fresh out of the mold
We have Parts !

They are very rigid and therefore heavier than necessary. I used 4 layers of 3 oz glass witch didn't seem like much , but. With curved and undulating structures you get strength with less.
I think I am going to layup 1 easy side with 2 layers. If that is sufficiently strong than the weight can be cut by half. If it is not, Then back in the mold and one additional layer (total 3) will be tried.
I am relatively certain 3 will be great and hopefully 2 will be fine. Ether way the weight can be cut by 1/4 to 1/2 approximately ( minus jell coat ).
This is one of the learning curves with composite work. What to use, how much to use, and where. The how much is particular important with aircraft.

Results





Kevin

stevegauth30

WOAH!!! Speechless.

acerc

Absolutely fantastic! You have done an amazing job in every aspect of the pants. On the glass and weight, all the parts we buy, or get with kits, is a one ply lay-up with a lighter glass. That being said I believe you could do a 2 ply with the 3oz and have a great product. I would leave the gel coat off, with painting it really is not needed thus eliminating more weight as you said.
Again Kevin, very impressed with your abilities and the outcome.

Melchizedek

Thanks Steve

And thank you Robert,

Great suggestion leaving the gel coat off. This will certainly speed up the fabrication process. I will have to mix up a thickened paste to get the hub cap detail to come through.
But I am thinking that can be done with the layup process. When the proper recipe is arrived at. Smiles will abound.

Kevin

acerc

How about cutting some circles like a half inch wide out of 3/4oz'ish for the hubs then do the lay-up.

Melchizedek

I did that in the initial layup. That circle went over the hub ledge. But an epoxy and micro balloon mixture (that's the white stuff you see) went down first as a fillet on that ledge.

I think what I will do is, a thickened epoxy in the little bolt depressions, a smaller epoxy micro balloon fillet on the ledge, then the circle. Then two layers 3 oz. The weight will be less than half.

The idea of speeding the process up and lightening and reducing cost is exciting.

Kevin

acerc

Sounds good, get to work!

Melchizedek

Ok , round two

I only had enough glass for the two hub cap sides. Ordered more tonight.
I wouldn't of layed up the cuff side anyway until recipe is ironed out.

Round two consists of no jell coat, same epoxy micro balloon mix at hubcap edge and fasteners. One ring 1&1/2 wide of 3 oz to cover the balloons, then 2 layers 3 oz over everything.
I was a little liberal on the epoxy as you can see with the shinny layup. This was intentional. Why ? just a hunch that it will be stiffer.

My balloon mixture was a little thinner than I liked, hence the far and broad creep of it. I don't think that will be a factor one way or another
It sure was a lot faster to layup and easier to trim. If it is stiff enough it will be significantly lighter than iteration 1, less than half.
Won't know till tomorrow.



Kevin

acerc

Look's good to me and you have to remember, once glassed together they are an arch in every direction. And I am sure you are aware an arch is the strongest structure there is.

Rocketman612

My Feedback: (85)

What he said

Melchizedek

Thanks Pete

Popped one of the sides out of the mold this morning.
It is stiff enough to hold its shape and will be stronger when bonded to its neighbor.
But. It is just a little to flimsy for my liking. So what I am going to do is put a couple of radial bands in front of and behind the wheel cut out.
I will use carbon tow for this. Should be a minimal weight penalty.
This will create 2 very stiff light ribs in each pant.

That's the plan as of now anyway.

Kevin

acerc

Kevin, I don't know if you know but a couple hours in the oven will stiffen it up a good deal more.

Melchizedek

I know post curing of parts makes some proxies harder.
Not sure on west systems.
My concerns would be softening and deforming before hardening due to the thinness if the part.

I think I will stick with the rick free nature of the tow.

When I get home I will weigh version 1 compared to version 2.
It is significantly lighter I know. Don't think a couple of strands of tow will add much weight at all.

Will know more upon weigh up.

Thanks for the suggestion.

The crash proof version one I wouldn't hesitate putting in the oven.
It would snicker at the heat.

Lowest my oven goes is 170.

Mind is still open to persuasion though upon evidence.




Kevin

acerc

Not trying to persuade one way or another just offering up suggestions. I use West Systems as well and have found the oven to be quite useful, mine is only 170° at lowest also. I usually let it set for 3 hours at the 170° and then turn the oven off and wait until cooled down to remove, typically ends up being over night.

Melchizedek

Have you put delicate/thin shaped parts in at that temp ?
Any deforming or deflection ?

I didn't mean to a sign intentions Robert.
Sorry. I so appreciate your good will.
That's how I have always received it.

Kevin

acerc

I like throwing thing's around in conversation and have found it generally helps spark a thought not thought of. The smallest as for plies and volume I have placed in the oven was the 2ply 3/4oz lay-up of the cabane cover on the big Pitts. I also placed it in still on the mold, no deformity of any kind but came out twice as stiff.
Most epoxies in any form don't truly completely set for week's or even a month, the oven speeds this time frame up. This is also why some may have issues with paint sticking within days of finishing the glass work.
Also the epoxy has to cool cure before placing in the oven. If one knows the how's and when, some epoxies can be heated from the start but I don't know those. And don't want to!

Melchizedek

Ok, time for weigh up.

First the crash proof version 1.
It came out exquisitely detailed and Auto motive grade (portly)
219 grams, its twin was 209 grams



Now the Jelly Fish .
79 Grams, its twin 76 grams. My what a difference.


Honey, What's for dinner ?
Why broiled jelly fish of coarse!




Ok, report on version two.

There was no need for jell coat accept around the hubcap fasteners. The entire layup is slick but the micro balloon mixture did not pic up the fastener detail completely. It was there but not fine. Also there were a few bubbles under the slurry. There was no way to detect those. So a layer of jell coat on the next layup will go on the ledge and fasteners and I will eliminate the balloon mixture. Will try to get the glass to lay over that ridge. I think I can. Eliminating the slurry should trims some more grams from this fine fish.

Will have to wait on the dinner, will report when she has cooled.

One thing thou, just read a West systems data sheet on post curing. It only addressed layups in cold weather. saying that post curing was a good idea. It also said not to exceed 140 degrees. What's a few degrees among friends ?

Just checked, It hasn't melted

Will report back

Kevin

stevegauth30

Wow, you dont realize the size from here till you see em cooking. Lol. There huge. Cant wait to see them on the lion.