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The SR. Falcon coming soon!!!From Early RC Models

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The SR. Falcon coming soon!!!From Early RC Models

Old 01-21-2004, 12:33 AM
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BobHH
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Default The SR. Falcon coming soon!!!From Early RC Models

Come see the first prototype model at this weekends meet in Graham NC at the Barks Swap meet the LARGEST model get together in NC. I have included many of your suggestions and incorporated these design into this design.
Take a Look And See What cha think!!!


Bob Harris
Early RC Models
www.earlyrcmodels.com



Check Her Out See what you thinfnw
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Old 01-21-2004, 12:56 AM
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CCRC1
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Default RE: The SR. Falcon coming soon!!!From Early RC Models

If you are going to release a kit of the Sr. Falcon I want to be first in line!!!!! Sure would be nice if it was lazer cut. Send me a PM with your price and info.
Old 01-21-2004, 07:09 AM
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BobHH
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Default RE: The SR. Falcon coming soon!!!From Early RC Models

Yep, all laser cut with formed leading and trailing edges. A bit of improvement on the building design thanks to many here on RCU for suggestions. Examples are duel servos on wing to eliminate the sloppy bellcranks, plans show standard hardwood beams as a well as bolt in motor mount for engines up to 60 size. Laminated spruce main spar for those concerned on wing strength. I will be finalizing the plans in the next 2 weeks to get laser cutting and components ordered. Any other improvements will be considered until then. This models is a very close match to the original. I have an original Sr Falcon built and all parts are interchangeable with each other. If you get a chance come out to the BARKS swap meet this weekend and look up our booth.

Bob Harris
Early RC Models
www.earlyrcmodels.com
Old 01-21-2004, 08:05 AM
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Default RE: The SR. Falcon coming soon!!!From Early RC Models

Bob, Did you play with the incidence on the wing/stab at all? The first powered RC I owned was a SrF in 1971. Same paint as yours only the red was green. A more advanced flyer took mine out and raised the trailing edge of the wing by 1/8 inch and it flew 5 times smoother. Fewer power/speed trim changes. Just a thought. Remember the design started out as a BIG rudder only bird, with modern radios it doesn't need to zoom climb so much
Tom
Old 01-21-2004, 09:26 AM
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BobHH
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Default RE: The SR. Falcon coming soon!!!From Early RC Models

Tom, everything is as the original kit. I understand your concern because I have experienced that same ballooning with the 4 channel Jr Falcon. I hope to put this model in the air the next few weeks if the weather will cooperate. Got a few pass Sr Falcon owners to give her a whirl also to check the flying characterlistics. Good point though I will let you know.

Bob Harris
Early RC Models
www.earlyrcmodels.com
Old 01-21-2004, 12:34 PM
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Doug D.
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Default RE: The SR. Falcon coming soon!!!From Early RC Models

Looking forward to seeing you there! The SR Falcon and the early Falcon 56 brings back a lot of memories. Will you have prices with you then? [&:]
Old 01-21-2004, 02:49 PM
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CCRC1
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Default RE: The SR. Falcon coming soon!!!From Early RC Models

I live in Maryland so I won't be able to make the swap meet. I am very serious about purchasing the kit though. Can you put me down for one from your first batch?
Old 01-21-2004, 02:56 PM
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BobHH
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Default RE: The SR. Falcon coming soon!!!From Early RC Models

Not yet. Plans are drawn and some RFQ's have been sent out but I am still in the middle of the cost analysis. Trying to find a good laser cutter that can cut the full length fuselage sides and source someone to bend gear, hardware, possibly a canopy etc. Hopefully in the next 2 weeks. I would still like to give the prototype a good test but it is still a bit cold down here.

Bob Harris
Early RC Models
www.earlyrcmodels.com
Old 01-21-2004, 04:03 PM
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P-51B
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Default RE: The SR. Falcon coming soon!!!From Early RC Models

I have to ask; since lanier bought Goldberg, did you have to liscense the rights to kit the falcon from them?
Old 01-21-2004, 05:19 PM
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BobHH
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Default RE: The SR. Falcon coming soon!!!From Early RC Models

As I have been informed from the US Copyright/Patent office and an Attorney, licenses apply to either a patent or copyright. An extensive search in the copyright record files came up with nothing and the original Goldberg plans have no copyright on them. Thus public domain. My rendition of this model is drawn on AutoCAD by me which carries a registered copyright for me. For assurances and not to step on any toes this design deviates in excess of 10% per the newer copyright rulings passed in the 1980's. I did send a letter to Lanier to ask permission to use the Carl Goldberg name and was told they would give none. I am not out to take any credit from Carl Goldberg and his designs. I offer these kits in admiration to a true gentleman and a great model designer as with all the other kits we provide. Original kits now are so expensive the average guy can't afford or the kits are in such poor shape to build. We supply hopefully a reasonably priced product to satisfy this need. No I am not a competitor with the bigger guys and don't plan to be. Just trying to bring back memories of past times we older guys had with our Dads and such many, many years ago.
,
Bob Harris
Early RC Models
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Old 01-21-2004, 08:56 PM
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Default RE: The SR. Falcon coming soon!!!From Early RC Models

Bob:

About five years ago I had contacted all the interested parties you mentioned, plus a few others who I did not know were still alive. In no uncertain terms, they informed me there would be legal trouble if I proceeded to produce more than one-two kits, or otherwise advertise and put into production.

Was some folks from Denver had announced here about two years ago at RCU that they were going to produce all of the Falcon's Many of us doubted they would be able to produce, and then about two months later dropped the projects due to legal problems. In round terms, Lanier told them not to also, as there were some plans to reintoduce the line-up, but revise the plans for more modern equipment. I used to have their name handy, but the web-site went dead and the e:mail address closed a good year ago. I think they were originally looking into old Veco products also, but the folks fro Arizona told them no too.

I was lucky and got permission years ago from all the interested parties while they were alive to produce a line of reproductions.


Wm.
Old 01-21-2004, 11:32 PM
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Default RE: The SR. Falcon coming soon!!!From Early RC Models

BobHH , I sent you a PM.
Old 01-22-2004, 12:53 AM
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Default RE: The SR. Falcon coming soon!!!From Early RC Models

I also would be interested in getting one. What would be the selling price???
Old 01-24-2004, 02:01 PM
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Default RE: The SR. Falcon coming soon!!!From Early RC Models

Copyright or not... mmm how did all those manufacturers get away with all their "original" Ugly Stick designs that all looked 95% alike? FYI.. at one time I did have verbal permission from Dave Patrick when he was at Goldberg to do a construction article on the Skylane42 for RCM. However, RCM wanted something in writing for publication, which good ol Dave never sent despite several communications on my part.

All in all I don`t think Lanier will ever re-release any of the planes we are talking about so there really is no value lost to them... go for it Bob
Old 01-24-2004, 04:00 PM
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Doug D.
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Default RE: The SR. Falcon coming soon!!!From Early RC Models

Got to see the Senior Falcon this saturday. "WOW" the pictures he has here don't do it justice. Absolutely Gorgeous!!! Brings back some memories.
Guys everything Bob has is worth getting. Everything he had there was faithfully reproduced and improved.
Bob! I'll be watching for the release of those Senior Falcons. Nice Meeting you! [&:]
Old 01-26-2004, 01:53 PM
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Default RE: The SR. Falcon coming soon!!!From Early RC Models

All in all I don`t think Lanier will ever re-release any of the planes we are talking about so there really is no value lost to them... go for it Bob
I wouldn't be so sure of that. Goldburg (Lanier) has a Falcon 56 kit out right now.
Old 01-26-2004, 02:27 PM
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Default RE: The SR. Falcon coming soon!!!From Early RC Models

Put me on the list for one of these fine kits, I too learned to fly on one. If the plans deviate 10% or more from the original then there is no copy right infringement. so you are good to go bob

Terry
Old 01-26-2004, 05:58 PM
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Default RE: The SR. Falcon coming soon!!!From Early RC Models

I personally asked Bubba Spivey (current owner of CGMP) at last years WRAM show about bringing back the Senior Falcon. He told me absolutely not. He was considering an ARF version but he was not interested in re-releasing the kit. He actually laughed at me when I told him the kit would be a good seller.
Old 01-27-2004, 12:57 PM
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Default RE: The SR. Falcon coming soon!!!From Early RC Models

He actually laughed at me when I told him the kit would be a good seller.
Is any kit a good seller? Mostly ARF's nowdays. If they would have them cut overseas or something would help. Kit's are expensive compared to ARF's.
Old 01-28-2004, 03:32 AM
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Default The SR. Falcon coming soon!!!From Early RC Models

I am still flying my 1st falcon 56 with its enya .29 that i learned to fly on back in the early 70's, and cannont rem. how many i tought to fly with. I traeced all the parts on the plans sheets but never needed.
Good for you sir to bring back a great indistructable trainer the way carl intended.
Roger
Old 02-03-2004, 05:50 PM
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Default RE: The SR. Falcon coming soon!!!From Early RC Models

As I have been informed from the US Copyright/Patent office and an Attorney, licenses apply to either a patent or copyright. An extensive search in the copyright record files came up with nothing and the original Goldberg plans have no copyright on them. Thus public domain. My rendition of this model is drawn on AutoCAD by me which carries a registered copyright for me. For assurances and not to step on any toes this design deviates in excess of 10% per the newer copyright rulings passed in the 1980's.
If the plans deviate 10% or more from the original then there is no copy right infringement. so you are good to go
Bob -- I wish you the best... I've been supplying folks with restored Senior Falcon plans for a while and I have a couple of points on the deal...

1-- The copyright office and your attorney did you a disservice if they didn't mention that registering a document in some copyright record files is useful, but it is not at all required for someone to own a copyright. Not being in the files does not imply that an article is in the public domain at all. That's spelled out clearly on the copyright office web site.

2-- How do we measure 10% of an airplane design and where does the guideline come from? In title 17 of the US Code (which is the governing law), the derivative works section was last updated in 1988 and contains no 10% rule. It says simply that the subject matter of a copyright includes compilations and derivative works... in other words, if I derived a plane from a CGM design, then CGM or their assigns owns the rights to my plane -- or at least to the parts they provided. (So, if the shape and size of the plane is identifiably Senior Falcon, then they own that.)

BTW -- some of the guys here have copies of Senior Falcon plans that I restored... the copyright law also says that rights to a restored property reside with the owner of the original... so that CGM et.al. own the rights to my restorations as well. Carl Goldberg Models specifically permitted me to pass along those copies. I never asked the for permission to sell them (I try and just recoup expenses), I only asked for permission to reproduce and distribute them to people who would build the plane -- to which they agreed.

Anyway, it's a great airplane and I'm glad it'll go back into kit production. And like Skylane said, there's a long and accepted history in modeling of people sharing the creative property of other people... and it's been a friendly fraternity in which that's been at least condoned. But that doesn't stop it from being other people's property. I just don't think we should share other people's property without knowing that's what we're doing.

So again, nice work and I wish you the best.

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