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  1. #551

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    RE: Lou Andrews aeromaster bipe ..Any info ??

    I picked up this bi-plane for next to nothing at a local auction. Had no idea how special it was except that it flies beautifully.

    There are two rubber-band pegs forward of the leading edges of the lower wings. I have not been using the forward ones, how should the rubber bands be attached to the bottom wing utilizing all six pegs?

    thanks,
    Dave
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    Goldberg Tiger Club #54

  2. #552

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    RE: Lou Andrews aeromaster bipe ..Any info ??

    The front pegs were for rubber-banding the landing gear.
    - Supplementary insipid innocuous inane vacuous proclamation

  3. #553
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    RE: Lou Andrews aeromaster bipe ..Any info ??

    ORIGINAL: RonMcCormick

    aeomaster32 thanks for the pictures, that is amazing. What year and what field where you flying at when that happened?
    The year 1971, the field was Cloverdale (Vancouver BC Canada) at the RCFCBC club. The strengths of this design lie in it's ruggedness. Unfortunately many decide to bolt on wings and landing gear, and add wing struts, which bypasses the virtues of the plane. My plane would not have survived if the top wing had been attached to the bottom wing. Similarly, the shock absorbing gear, which folds back bounced me back into the air after a too low pull-out. A fixed gear would have (I have seen the results) ripped the whole bottom out. I repaired the plane and it is the orange one in the line-up. Two belonged to my dear friend who is no longer with us. I still have the blue machine in perfect condition now over 40 years old although I last flew it about ten years ago. It is the plane in my avatar.
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    It\'s better to break ground and head into the wind than to break wind and head into the ground.

  4. #554

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    RE: Lou Andrews aeromaster bipe ..Any info ??

    I had this plane 24 years ago, it was the best airplane I had ever owned. The pictures are those of a kit I purchased from EBAY.
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  5. #555

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    RE: Lou Andrews aeromaster bipe ..Any info ??

    aeomaster32, I like those examples with both top and bottom wings swept.

    Attaching things by rubber band makes perfect sense to me. I guess the concept started back in the days when equipment was less reliable, but people still crash. Its a great way to minimize the damage.

  6. #556
    RonMcCormick's Avatar
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    RE: Lou Andrews aeromaster bipe ..Any info ??

    aeomaster32 nice group of planes, LennyD yours is a beauty also. Amazingly as much as I love Aeromasters I never owned one myself, I always flew my friends. I started building the one I'm working on now in 1975!
    Ron McCormick
    AMA 53109, CPA 6, NSRCA 726

  7. #557

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    RE: Lou Andrews aeromaster bipe ..Any info ??

    I found this thread looking for info on the Aeromaster.  I have an old one in kit form that has never been touched.  Now after reading the posts, I feel like going back down in the basement and finishing up a few planes I left there probably 30 yrs ago.  The last one I started was a Top Flight Contender that was going to have a World Engines radio put in it.  So its been awhile.  There was alot of mention of the Andrews H-Ray, and S-Ray, but no mention of the A-Ray.  It had large "barn door" ailerons and was alot of fun to fly for a high winged airplane.  We even put plexiglass skiis on it and flew it on the snow here in Ohio.  And like all Andrews kits, it was almost indestructible.

  8. #558

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    RE: Lou Andrews aeromaster bipe ..Any info ??



    PD1..you seem to mention all the rays but the A Ray. I had one and it was alot of fun for a high wing with itslarge ailerons. And like all the Andrews kits, it would take a beating.


  9. #559

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    RE: Lou Andrews aeromaster bipe ..Any info ??


    ORIGINAL: BW2



    PD1..you seem to mention all the rays but the A Ray.Β* I had one and it was alot of fun for a high wing with itsΒ*large ailerons.Β* And like all the Andrews kits, it would take a beating.Β*
    Β*


    I was working at Aamco during summer vacation when the A Ray was going into production, one day Lou asked me to write the instructions for building the A Ray. I hadn't built an A Ray, before or since, but I did supply a lot of the instructions.
    I now have a kit of the A Ray sitting on the shelf, along with a couple of S Rays, Minimaster and a couple of Aeromasters..
    Just need time.

    Plans available here... http://www.outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=3152

  10. #560
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    RE: Lou Andrews aeromaster bipe ..Any info ??

    pd1,
    Your location cracked me up, noydb, MA. I don't mind telling you I am originally from Attleboro, MA. I am permanently relocated to Southern California now. Back in the late 60s when I was first into radio control, I had an H-Ray kit I tried to build using a Mule Mk II single channel radio. I was rarely successful back in those days and the H-Ray was no exception. Up to that point I was self taught building model planes and started with Guillows kits converted to free flight. For some reason I never forgot that H-Ray kit and thought I would not ever have a chance to build a successful flying kit. Today I have an Early Models version of the old kit sitting in a box waiting to be assembled. With what I know now about RC, it will be a different story. Back In those days I would never have even attempted something like the Aeromaster bipe but I also have an Aeromaster Too I bought last year off eBay waiting for construction. I retire in four years from the railroad and have many kits I have been hoarding that I plan to build when I finally have the time. The Lou Andrews kits are first on the list and who knows, maybe I won't even wait until then. I thoroughly enjoy hearing about your time at Lou Andrews place.
    Mike MacLean

  11. #561
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    RE: Lou Andrews aeromaster bipe ..Any info ??

    Hi pd1, it must have been exciting working for a kit designer. Do you (or anyone else) know why the top hinge position was used on the ailerons? I don't want to start a long discussion on this forum on the pros and cons of the different hinge designs i'm just curious about Lou's reason for using it, if it is known.
    Ron McCormick
    AMA 53109, CPA 6, NSRCA 726

  12. #562
    aeomaster32's Avatar
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    RE: Lou Andrews aeromaster bipe ..Any info ??

    ORIGINAL: RonMcCormick

    Hi pd1, it must have been exciting working for a kit designer. Do you (or anyone else) know why the top hinge position was used on the ailerons? I don't want to start a long discussion on this forum on the pros and cons of the different hinge designs i'm just curious about Lou's reason for using it, if it is known.
    I might jump in here with a related comment. Not so long ago, I flew someone else’s Aeromaster-too, and was disappointed with how poorly it flew. It was sluggish and inaccurate in rolls, which was very different from mine. Noticing large aileron gaps, I suggested we run tape to seal the gaps. Well, it was a different airplane after that. The last thing one wants is to affect the low pressure at that part of the wing with air spilling in from below. Make sure you keep that gap to a minimum. I might add that my own roll rates are so high that I don't use full throw. and use exponential.
    It\'s better to break ground and head into the wind than to break wind and head into the ground.

  13. #563

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    RE: Lou Andrews aeromaster bipe ..Any info ??

    aeomaster32, it looks like the aeromasters in your 1971 pictures have ailerons on the bottom wings only. Is that still how you do things?

  14. #564
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    RE: Lou Andrews aeromaster bipe ..Any info ??


    ORIGINAL: Trisquire

    aeomaster32, it looks like the aeromasters in your 1971 pictures have ailerons on the bottom wings only. Is that still how you do things?
    Absolutely. There is no need for extra ailerons; that is the beauty of the design. If you keep the aileron gap to a minimum, you will have more roll response than you will need - quite capable of doing Lomcovics is you desire.
    Extra ailerons are just needless complication and weight, and will cause you to suffer more damage in a bad landing. This plane can take an enormous amount of punishment if you build it the way Lou Anders designed it.
    It\'s better to break ground and head into the wind than to break wind and head into the ground.

  15. #565

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    RE: Lou Andrews aeromaster bipe ..Any info ??

    ORIGINAL: RonMcCormick

    Hi pd1, it must have been exciting working for a kit designer. Do you (or anyone else) know why the top hinge position was used on the ailerons? I don't want to start a long discussion on this forum on the pros and cons of the different hinge designs i'm just curious about Lou's reason for using it, if it is known.
    Back in the early 60's there were a few people experimenting with aileron hinge position to help reduce adverse yaw.
    The hinge on the top of the wing was an attempt to equalize the drag produce from both ailerons so the plane stayed on a straight line when rolling.

    That said...
    When the Sportmaster came out it also had the hinge on the top of the ailerons for the same reason.
    When Lou made the Trainermaster, basically a scaled down Sportmaster, he hinged the ailerons in the middle. The Trainermaster had no more adverse yaw than the Aero or Sport. It seemed that the hinge position had less effect than originally thought.

    Close gap on the hinges is everything. Better yet seal the hinge gap with a little plastic covering, it make a huge difference.

    Four ailerons versus two, My dad made the first Aeromaster with four ailerons. The servos back then were slow and this gave a big boost in roll performance. I built an Aeromaster for Lou with four ailerons, it was nice but I don't think it was worth all the extra work.
    That being said I have an Aeromaster with four aileron, flies nice.

    I met a lot of extremely nice people while I worked at Aamco.
    Paul

  16. #566
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    RE: Lou Andrews aeromaster bipe ..Any info ??

    pd1 that's pretty much the answer I was hoping for and suspected. Because I'm using a servo for each side and 4 ailerons I'm thinking about center hinging. Back in the 60's we had to make mechanical or design considerations for aileron differential, today we just punch in a percentage positive or negative in the transmitter until we get balanced rolling. I plan to use just bottom wing ailerons with two servos initially and see how well I can get that setup to work later I will add top wing ailerons.
    Ron McCormick
    AMA 53109, CPA 6, NSRCA 726

  17. #567

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    RE: Lou Andrews aeromaster bipe ..Any info ??


    ORIGINAL: aeomaster32


    ORIGINAL: Trisquire

    aeomaster32, it looks like the aeromasters in your 1971 pictures have ailerons on the bottom wings only. Is that still how you do things?
    Absolutely. There is no need for extra ailerons; that is the beauty of the design. If you keep the aileron gap to a minimum, you will have more roll response than you will need - quite capable of doing Lomcovics is you desire.
    Extra ailerons are just needless complication and weight, and will cause you to suffer more damage in a bad landing. This plane can take an enormous amount of punishment if you build it the way Lou Anders designed it.
    Thanks aeomaster32.

  18. #568
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    RE: Lou Andrews aeromaster bipe ..Any info ??

    I believe if you build an Aeromaster 100% by the plans you will have a wonderful biplane. Back in the day I never owned one, I flew many others of friends and club members. The most popular modification I saw was flipping the landing gear around to move the wheels forward to prevent tip overs on grass. Every plane I saw except one had just bottom ailerons the one that had four ailerons I did not get to fly but the guy flying it was a pattern flyer like me, I was impressed with how it appeared to handle better especially at low air speed. So I put 4 ailerons on my list of mods I would do on mine when I built it. I also Decided to make the elevator a little larger, the front of the fuse rounded to fit a spinner, bolt on landing gear mounted forward, wing mounting bolts. I purchased the gas engine just recently and fitted it in place of my 70's OS, I'm not 100% sold on this motor yet time will tell, I can go back to the a glow setup very easily. Oh I forgot one more mod wing struts. I also split the elevator (not a mod) . I noticed on Ernie Hubers 1967 Nat plane he had bottom ailerons and struts which makes sense to me.
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    Ron McCormick
    AMA 53109, CPA 6, NSRCA 726

  19. #569
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    RE: Lou Andrews aeromaster bipe ..Any info ??

    ORIGINAL: RonMcCormick

    I believe if you build an Aeromaster 100% by the plans you will have a wonderful biplane. Back in the day I never owned one, I flew many others of friends and club members. The most popular modification I saw was flipping the landing gear around to move the wheels forward to prevent tip overs on grass.
    There is nothing wrong with the landing gear position, and I never had a nose over. Just use decent size wheels. I had a crash, the result of a battery disconnect cause by an incompatible (too deep) switch connector. It was only my second crash since 1971. I had just done a violent Lomcevic and that was enough to disconnect with the plane under full power heading vertically down. It buried itself to the cabane, 'quivering like an arrow', tail perfectly vertical in the air. Any other plane would have exploded. The fact that it was repairable was very much connected to the elastic held wings and gear.
    It's one thing if you just want to change the look of the airplane, because you won't improve it's functionality as another aspect.

    Here is a clip of my third Aeromaster which was repaired after a vertical full power dive into wet ground.
    [link]http://youtu.be/wAFXkl4f6AI[/link]
    http://youtu.be/wAFXkl4f6AI
    It\'s better to break ground and head into the wind than to break wind and head into the ground.

  20. #570

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    RE: Lou Andrews aeromaster bipe ..Any info ??

    Hi to everyone here on this thread- ANDTHANKYOU for all the wonderful information, and experiences with your Aeromaster biplanes. I have read every reply here, from page one, and have learned a lot. I am back into flying, after a 22 yr hiatus(LIFE & all else). I still have all my planes, from back as far as 1976, when I started flying RC. I have upgraded all of my radios(from the old 27MHZ), and have 4 planes flying now. All of my planes have been pretty much scale, single winged, and I enjoy flying that way most of the time.
    Well, last fall I went to the field, and an old timer was there flying his Aeromaster, and what a sight to behold. He flew the plane so smoothly, and gracefully, that I was in complete awe. You could tell he had some early pattern experience under his belt, and he put that Aeromaster into some of the most beautiful, and smooth maneuevers that I have ever seen. It was a real treat for me to just sit and watch- as well as learn something- this plane was a NATURAL born flyer. I know he had this plane from the early 70's, and did have a few minor mishaps with it, but nothing major. He always did a very nice patch job if it needed it.
    After he landed, I went over and asked him about the plane, and he told me all about it. When I went home, I couldn't get that plane out of my mind.I looked at my fleet of planes, and I didn't have a single biplane in my stable, and I knew right there I just had to have an Aeromaster. I started looking for one, and didn't have any success, and found out that they were discontinued a long time ago. A week later I was back at the field, and the old timer was there with the Aeromaster, and I got enough courage up to approach him about selling the plane to me. He said "Sure, I'm pretty tired of it after all these years", so I'll sell it to you. He named a price, and only wanted the old OS 61FSR out of it. I handed him the money, and unbolted the motor right there, and took my prize home. I sat it on the kitchen table, and stared at it for a couple hours, admiring my lates acquisition, and my 1st biplane. A couple days later at the field, he brought me the plans, a box of extra parts, another cowl, matching Monokote, and the wheel pants. I asked him about refitting a new motor in it, and told him I had several HB 61PDP's, and he said that they would be perfect for it. So I'm now working on it, and have fitted the new engine to it, and have to do a few mods on the cowl for pitts muffler, and carb linkage. Here are a few pics of the start of my "1st Aeromaster adventure". More to come Dean







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  21. #571
    aeomaster32's Avatar
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    RE: Lou Andrews aeromaster bipe ..Any info ??

    Wonderful to see such enthusiasm for the old stuff. It seems we older folk are the only ones to appreciate the models of yesteryear. (I even fly the stuff from the thirties, so what does that tell you?)
    It\'s better to break ground and head into the wind than to break wind and head into the ground.

  22. #572
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    RE: Lou Andrews aeromaster bipe ..Any info ??

    Hi deanz406, welcome back, I too was out for a number of years and returned. Your pictures did not load, at least I can't see them. This is the place to come for answers about AEROMASTER lots of knowledgeable fliers here. Good luck with that plane.
    Ron McCormick
    AMA 53109, CPA 6, NSRCA 726

  23. #573

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    RE: Lou Andrews aeromaster bipe ..Any info ??

    Thanks Ron & aeromaster 32 for the welcome. Well, that's just the start of my quest to add a few bipes to the fleet. After seeing how difficult it was going to be finding an Aeromaster original kit, or a built model, I decided to keep "On the Hunt" for another one. I passed a little info to several club members about another one, and hoped I could get a positive indicator. There was a club, a little distance away that advertised their annual Auction, and swap meet, and I decided I would go there and see what I could find. When I arrived, I saw a really nice biplane in the auction line of tables, and went over to check it out. It was a beautifully built Balsa USA Phaeton bipe, complete withmotor and servos, just no receiver. I knew I would be bidding on that one.
    I started to walk up along the auction line, and it led into a back room where there were more planes LO and behold- there was a beautiful red biplane, done up in WW1 scheme. When I saw the swept wings, the turtledeck, and shape of the tail, I knew it was an Aeromaster. It was beautifully built, and was complete with motor and servos. I knew I was going to bring those 2 planes home with me. They were both owned, and built by a local flyer, who had passed away, and they were selling the estate items.
    Needless to say, they had a very low reserve, and no one was bidding on them, so I got the Phaeton for $80.00, and the WW1 Aeromaster for $100.00. I can't tell you how excited I was.
    The following week, I was at the flying field with the Phaeton for a test fly with one of our better flyers, and he test flew and trimmed the Phaeton for me. It was almost perfect from the time it left the ground. I was so excited, and I flew it 3 more times that day. Interesting enough though, that same day, a fellow club member came up to me, and said he heard I was looking for an Aeromaster, and he said he had 2 "Big Ones" that his dad built. He said he was keeping one, but would sell me the other one without motor or radio. He said his dad built them identical, and they were set up for the OS 120 Four stroke motor. He did mention- "You might not like the colors- I said why- he said they were Halloween colors, orange and black" . I went over to his house, and he pulled the one down from the rafters in the garage. With 15 years of dust and dirt, it was hard to tell the condition. He said I could have it for $125.00, and I bought it. He told me to come the next day to pick it up, and he would clean it up for me.
    The next morning I went over to pick it up, and I was amazed how nice it was, and his dad was a "REAL" kit builder back in those days. After looking at the plane, I then realized that, indeed, it was bigger than the one I 1st bought. It has a 67" wingspan, so it might have been one of the first original Andrews giant Aeromasters- I don't really know for sure.
    Well, here are a few pics of my biplane fleet so far, and along with that, I did manage to buy 2 more original AAMCOAeromaster kits, complete in the original boxes. Once again, thank you all for keeping this thread so pleasant and informative I'll keep you all posted on my progress with them Dean



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  24. #574
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    RE: Lou Andrews aeromaster bipe ..Any info ??

    Well now I just hate you!!! just kidding I'm happy for you, what an amazing story. Those planes were just waiting for a nice home where they would be appreciated. What a beautiful collection. Hope you have many years to enjoy them. Congrats Dean good job!
    Ron McCormick
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  25. #575
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    RE: Lou Andrews aeromaster bipe ..Any info ??

    Well you certainly are set now. Two kits as well. They are had to find. I have one in reserve in case I ever lose my No.3 which nearly happened.
    Just in case you need motivation, here is a video of the first flight of my third model.
    http://youtu.be/BfUdls5K_7k
    It\'s better to break ground and head into the wind than to break wind and head into the ground.


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