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Phil Krafts Original Ugly Stick

Old 12-13-2016, 11:13 AM
  #226  
lflf
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xx

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Old 12-14-2016, 02:27 PM
  #227  
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No, I don't know anything about Midwest and the other kits. I'm still working on the Stik history till the Jensen kit came out. I'm in a phase where many things are not clear to me and I'll need some time to work them out and talk to George. The article will be finished not before January because I'm going to put every detail I have into it. Of course I'll let you know when it's ready. Thank you for the kind words, by the way.

To give an example, take the vertical tail of the two prototype models. The first picture is from the Grid Leaks article and shows Phil Kraft readying his Ugly Stik (built for him by Dick Kidd). You can tell it apart because it has no cowl, the scarf is white and the vertical tail as well. But notice the vertical tail's forward position (the same on George Walker's original model).

Even the Grid Leaks plan and the Jensen kit show a rudder hinge line above the elevator hinge line. That must have been changed after building the two prototype models but before George's vellum plan was committed to Grid Leaks. In the vellum plan (the second picture is a detail) are still faint lines showing a more forward and even bigger vertical tail with a bigger German cross.

That has to be cleared up yet.
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Old 12-14-2016, 03:19 PM
  #228  
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Another example: To adhere to my "living history" ploy, a simulator model has to be built to have the look and feel of the test bed. Shape and even engine mount should be correct (as well as flight behavior), but I have yet no textures of clear-doped balsa and natural-colored silk. Now the model is just colored to give an impression. The wing actually should be translucent so ribs and spars should be visible. And perhaps the test bed had no false ribs. I still don't know...
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Old 12-14-2016, 04:10 PM
  #229  
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Old 12-14-2016, 04:42 PM
  #230  
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this airplane was changed so many times it is not funny, what i mean is george or someone else built plane on top of plane, to change the flight pattern, have no idea how many were built..
i have one of the first jenson now that is a tail dragger and one that i built from the scrap box with a weber 61..
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Old 12-19-2016, 08:52 AM
  #231  
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Originally Posted by lflf View Post
Just a guess here but they may have decided to make the change in the tail realizing that there are a lot of airplane guys who are going to want to set it up with conventional or tail dragger gear, and to do it easily the rudder hinge line needs to match up with the elevator hinge line. The way it is shown in the picture with Phil Kraft is fairly uncommon, you usually see that set-up with Quickie 500's of the day, that only used a skid, and didn't need a tail wheel. At any rate, just like with the dihedral, they may have been just looking it over and said that looks a little weird, lets move it on paper and in the future it will be built the usual way. This is just Idle speculation, good luck on your detective work.
Thanks again, seems I had as much good luck as I can get when I got to know George Walker. His memory is amazing at his age of 88, maybe better than mine at only 65. Still it is limited when I'm asking for negligible details like the false ribs. Why the vertical tail has been set back he doesn't remember either. Both things were not "his", in contrast to the covering of his prototype, which he actually remembers (I wouldn't). So it seems your speculation is dead on.

The detective work could turn out as interminable. There are so many major and minor Stik offsprings. Attached is an interesting ad from Feb. 1969 RCM. It shows that Midwest produced Das Little (or Liddle?) Stik, which had been presented by Larry Leonard in May 1968 RCM, two years after Das Ugly Stik. Its proveniance is mentioned, and interesting is "Look at what the experts say" at the bottom right. Just funny...
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Old 12-19-2016, 06:52 PM
  #232  
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That is SOO FUNNY!
Ron
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Old 12-19-2016, 08:01 PM
  #233  
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is George Walker living in Germany or where now a day ?
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Old 12-20-2016, 09:51 AM
  #234  
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I suppose George is still living in California. He showed me his house at StreetView but he didn't come out to wave to me. So there's a remote chance that he's living next-door to me without me even knowing it, very remote though...

We're living in the Internet age!

Sorry for kidding you, hope you don't mind, just couldn't resist to make fun of that.

And fun I could do with because I for one can't find funny what they wrote in the Liddle Stik ad (and the earlier article as well). For me it's just a marketing ploy (meant to be funny), and funny is rather how they carried it to extremes. Or should I say ridiculous?

No offense meant!

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Old 12-20-2016, 11:08 AM
  #235  
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Old 12-20-2016, 12:32 PM
  #236  
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I am attaching plans to the Midwest Sweet Stik here for anyone that's interested. This is the early version circa 1980. Very popular, slightly more compact version of the Ugly Stik. It seems there were two versions of this plane. A later version circa 1983 was designed by Pete Frankenthal which can be found over on Outerzone. Do you have any infomation on how Midwest ended up with the Ugly Stik designs and manufacturing rights after Jensen quit manufacturing them?
I built and flew an original Sweet Stik around 1972 using a Kraft single stick with the KPS-12 servos. Very nice flying model that I have always wanted to build again. So the date of 1980 is off because I think Midwest offered it late in 1971. Back then they often sold models that appeared in RCM, they had the two foam wing WWI biplanes that were presented in RCM that used the Midwest foam wing and tail set.

While the Liddle Stik (Larry Lenord) was in RCM before Midwest had it, the Sweet Stik went directly to kit designed by Frank Garcher who I believed owned Midwest. I never liked the looks of the second version, because of it's dihedral and because the flat wing just flew extremely well.
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Old 12-20-2016, 02:12 PM
  #237  
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Originally Posted by UStik View Post
...
Midwest produced Das Little (or Liddle?) Stik, which had been presented by Larry Leonard in May 1968 RCM, two years after Das Ugly Stik. Its proveniance is mentioned, and interesting is "Look at what the experts say" at the bottom right. Just funny...
I have the Midwest Bipe Stick in bare bones ready to cover. Will put Saito 56 in it, Also have "original" Ugly Stik plans with which I plan to build on and fit my NIB K61 engine, and my Kraft KP-5c radio ((it was my first radio (used) in 1983))

Sincerely, Richard
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Old 12-20-2016, 02:17 PM
  #238  
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UStik

i would not have it any other way.

A.B.
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Old 12-20-2016, 03:23 PM
  #239  
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You are right it seems like the Sweet Stik has been around longer. The plans I have show a small number in the very lower right hand corner 2-80, which not necessarily be the date, but might be referring to something else, plan revision, catalog number, etc.
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Old 12-20-2016, 03:41 PM
  #240  
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Mine say 5-79 there, so that may be the print date for that run. I got this set from a buddy a while back. They show the KPS-12 servo which came out in 1970.
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Old 12-20-2016, 04:13 PM
  #241  
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UStik

false ribs again, i looked at the plans i have which came from Grid lakes, does not have the false ribs and this was in 1966 when i received the plans, after Phil was flying this airplane at a fly-in in 1964 in Ashville NC at a closed airport, it was the NCRC meet, north carolina radio control. the servos were the old bonner style with Kraft stickers. top and both ends out put for control.

A.B.
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Old 12-20-2016, 05:36 PM
  #242  
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I flew a sweet stik from a Midwest kit back when I lived in Dallas, which was 1979 to early 1981. High planes flew it, too. If I remember, it had an Enya 40 on it, which I think I still have in the basement somewhere
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Old 12-21-2016, 08:13 PM
  #243  
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Was that the Stik that your aileron servo fell off? You used servo tape but didn't seal the wood you stuck the servo to. I think I landed it for you that day.

But I will confess another failure on my part. I had a Little Stik that had my finally reliable Kraft in. It had their small KPS-12 servos and a .40 Super Tigre. Peculiar to the KPS-12 design, there were no screws holding the case together, just a couple wraps of tape. Well one day I noticed the tape had broke on one side and the bottom of the case was swung over. No biggie, it just holds the electronics I thought, fix it later.

So I was flying around inverted at about 5 feet in a turn when suddenly the ailerons quit. No escape, instant crash which tick me off so much that I threw the transmitter about twenty feet. No damage to the 10 year old Kraft because it landed flat into tall grass. What I didn't realize was the bottom of the case also held the servo motor in place. Motor falls out, stuff stops moving. The crash totaled the fuselage,

I've still got the wing which flew with two or three other fuselages and once on an Eagle 63 to prove a point. It was actually an Ace Super Pacer wing with used the same airfoil as a Stik, with spruce spars. Tough as hell, because back in the day I built a low wing Stik which included a carrier landing in a set of phone lines back when that kind of thing covered the Earth. Oddly enough the 70 series Kraft is still with me too, fresh from a Kraft repair station in the middle 80's.
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Old 12-22-2016, 11:19 AM
  #244  
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Yep, that was it. It lived a good many years longer before it finally met it's demise. That was a fun plane.
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Old 12-22-2016, 02:30 PM
  #245  
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It would be great to find a picture of Phil with his Box Fli. Somebody must have taken a picture somewhere along the line. Lets hope one surfaces sometime.....Gene
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Old 12-22-2016, 04:28 PM
  #246  
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Originally Posted by gene6029 View Post
It would be great to find a picture of Phil with his Box Fli. Somebody must have taken a picture somewhere along the line. Lets hope one surfaces sometime.....Gene
he was too ashamed to fly it in a crowd of three...
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Old 12-22-2016, 08:59 PM
  #247  
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A.B. I grew up in Western North Carolina, and the old Asheville/Hendersonville airport was our first paved model flying site. We hosted several RCNC meets at this site over the years, and I was at the 1964 Invitational flying a single channel, .049 Vanguard with an escapement. Over the years I became friends with Phil, and we each flew full scale with one another. We talked about a lot of things, but never about the history of the Ugly Stick. I've had several of my own, and flown off water, snow, and land. Recently I acquired a Kraft .61 to go on my next Stick.
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Old 12-23-2016, 02:20 AM
  #248  
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If anyone is interested, a buddy of mine has a couple of Midwest kits on Ebay right now. A Das Little Stik and a Flea Fly plus 10.
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Old 12-23-2016, 07:28 AM
  #249  
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So is the Grid Leaks magazine with the original article on the Ugly Stik, with George Walker on the cover: http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-GRID-LE...4AAOSw4GVYPUI7
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Old 12-23-2016, 07:56 AM
  #250  
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Greg, owe my goodness, it has been a long time since we flew in Quarter Midget bumping wing tips...nice to here from you. the next year i bought a Proline from Jim Whitley, that i have today. the old RCNC days were enjoyable. The Ugly Stick that Jenson kited i got one, and had one of the RCNC stickers on it. Enya .61 a lot of fun, i have the flouts and the airplane today, believe that. Tom Baker, D.C. May, those guys are gone, but enjoyable times then...No ARF at all, i bought one just to talk about it in 2007. hope you are still in the air..

A.B. Gentry
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