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Thread: WACO YMF


  1. #2601
    damifino's Avatar
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    RE: WACO YMF

    Just a thought- I took my plans to Kinkos and ran a copy of each sheet. After determining the copy's size matched the 'original' I cut up the new Kinkos' copy to use as my building plans and kept my original plans in one piece for reference. My parts tracings came directly from STICKBUILDER and I also kept them as 'master patterns' and used copies for cutting my parts. You never know when you'll need them again. You may be planning on doing all that, but thought I'd throw those thoughts out to you.

    Contact adhesive in aerosol cans (3M 77) is my preferred method of attaching the parts tracings to balsa or ply. For cutting multiples of the same part I often use Scotch brand double sided tape to stick together up to 4 layers of wood. A heat gun warms the adhesive enough to allow you to cleanly pull the paper patterns' remains from the wood after cutting.

    Again, this may be elementary info to some of you. But, here it is just the same.

    Everybody knows you can\'\'t make a time machine out of a Tilt-A-Whirl.........-:WACO Brotherhood 25:-

  2. #2602
    Stickbuilder's Avatar
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    RE: WACO YMF

    Puter is still dead. I don't think that we will be able to recover the data there. Thankfully, this thread is here (with the important stuff). I'm trying to get someone to attempt to run a recovery program. When the hard drive crashed, it killed the system (at least it says that the system is damaged and it will not restart, or allow me to open anything).

    Bill, AMA 4720
    WACO Brotherhood #1
    Its easy, just glue all the pieces together, and sand off everything that doesnt look like an airplane.

  3. #2603

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    RE: WACO YMF

    Bill, there are companys that specialize in recovery of data from crashed hard drives. if you have real important material.don,t know if you knew this or not........Jacque
    Brotherhood #27

  4. #2604

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    RE: WACO YMF

    ORIGINAL: khodges

    SoCalSal---As soon as I quit slobbering while looking at your plane, I'll say how good it looks. Has someone recently (within 6 months or so) posted a video of it putting on an impromptu airshow? I saw one a while back, the plane had a radial and seems like it was the color of yours. It was in Southern Cal from the background landscape. heck of a show. Welcome to the 'Hood.

    Well, it flies. (Mine that is) I went to the field this evening, took the UMF, my Bristol M-1, and my DR-1. Warmed up on the Bristol, then the Fokker. Decided it was do or die, I didn't build no hangar queen. I gassed up the WACO, warmed it up and taxied to the runway, turned into the wind and rolled on the power. It came off the ground in about 75 feet, I looked like a newbie with an Avistar, jerking it around until I got a feel for the throws (too much elevator, too much aileron, too much rudder) I had programmed in a bunch of expo, and it saved me from overcontrolling into the ground. After the first lap, I got settled down, just flew around making standard turns, playing with flying speeds,, got it trimmed (four clicks down elevator and a couple clicks right aileron, no rudder changes) and I went high and stalled it a couple of times to see what it did. Stalls are straight ahead, and you really got to slow it down or use a lot of elevator to make it happen. Even at 18 pounds, it didn't want to quit flying when I came in to land. My throttle needs adjustment, most of the butterfly movement is in the first half of the stick, so I don't have as much stick for fine control at low throttle settings. I wanted to make a wheel landing, but the difference between flying it in at 1/4 throttle and idle was about two clicks on the stick, and I got slowed down and three pointed it. That was okay, but it was a bit bouncy. I flew for about ten or twelve minutes, didn't use half of a tank.

    One of our club members was there with his camera (he shoots races for NASCAR) and he made some great shots. As soon as he e-mails them to me, I'll post them. One of the guys watching said after I landed that he wished somebody had stuck a lump of coal up my backside before I took off, we'd all be rich now Ahhh, the power of pucker.
    Hi, Thanks for the nice words. I did post a clip of "Miss Linney" flying at our Vet's Day fly in out in Lakeside Cal. If the vid you saw has a rather large tree at the approch to the runway then it was mine. I also had the smoke on at times during the flight. I have made or fine tuned it since that flight as it was only the third flight I had on the plane. My engine is now running very well and I put a ground adjust pitch prop on the front. I now spin a 32-18 at 4400 rpm and it works just great. These Wacos need a bit of power on landing as the big fan acts as a air brake at idel. I bring mine in with about 1000 rpm on it till I make the runway then cut power and let it float on by till she settels down. It is much better if I have just a tad of head wind as I can get her down with a very short roll out, otherwise I need to fly her down at times. At 47 pounds you would think it would not be a floater but the 4000+ sq inchs of wing make her very lite on landing.
    Let\'\'s be open minded.... But not so open that your brain falls out
    Waco Brotherhood #46
    QQ Python \"Miss Linney \"

  5. #2605
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    RE: WACO YMF

    [/quote]

    The spring linkage at the servo works really well to isolate shock loads transmitted from the tailwheel via the control rod. The spring loading on the tailwheel is a compromise, though. It will give under vertical loads (to the tailwheel shaft), but real-life loads have a vector more at 45-60 degrees to the shaft because the plane is moving forward. The full-scale tailwheel is sprung so that it gives rearward and pivots about a horizontal axis. Mine is susceptible to shear loads that the full scale avoids. Here is a picture of the scale assembly for either the Genesis or Barth (can't remember which), which is the same basic design as the full scale. I am happy to post pics of how I made the forks for mine, if you like.

    When I pulled up the pic, my caption says "Palmer tailwheel"
    [/quote]

    Khodges, this is a comment on the photo that you showed in post 2567 on page 103. As Paul Harvey would say: "The rest of the story". I posted the photo on the Pepino Waco thread in the Scratch building section. I built the assembly from tail wheel parts salvaged from the retractable tail wheel that was in my crashed Ziroli Corsair. I think it was originally a Robart #160. I used the yoke (wheel mount), shock absorber, and control arm. 1/8" piano wire is in the Chrome-Moly main shaft. The pivot shaft is also Chrome-Moly. The assembly is brazed with high temp Bernz O Matic (P/N 19335) nickle/silver rod and a Mapp gas torch.

    You can see the Robart #160 here.
    http://www.robart.com/retracts/tailmech.aspx
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    Ken
    WACO Brotherhood #70, Arlington TX home of the Dallas Cowboys, SupBowl45, Texas Rangers, World Series 2010, 2011

  6. #2606

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    RE: WACO YMF

    O.K. now. This is not a Waco post but I just picked up a Balsa USA 1/3 scale Stearman kit for a little better than half retail price. ( sorry honey it was on sale) I now get a reason to use that statement and see how she likes it!!.

    But this plane will look good along side my YMF-5. I now have a project to work on when I don't feel like flying my YMF.........yes there are times I just don't "feel it" and when those times come along I will not fly anything, but I can build now.

    Brotherhood #46
    Let\'\'s be open minded.... But not so open that your brain falls out
    Waco Brotherhood #46
    QQ Python \"Miss Linney \"

  7. #2607

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    RE: WACO YMF


    ORIGINAL: Big_Bird


    Khodges, this is a comment on the photo that you showed in post 2567 on page 103. As Paul Harvey would say: "The rest of the story".
    Big Bird-- I pulled that pic off RCU and forgot where. Thanks for filling in the details. It's a very nice setup, I only wish I had the know-how to work with brazing and welding of stronger metals than brass so I could have copied it. I hope mine will hold up a while.

    Mobyal- You can PM if you want, but I'll tell you here. I sprayed the entire cowl with the yellow color first, without masking. I focused on coating the blisters, and feathered the color out onto the remainder of the cowl. Then I took some 1/4 inch plastic automotive striping tape and covered the blisters after the paint had cured about a week. This tape will stretch as you apply it and you can make very sharp curves with it, and since it isn't "creped" like most masking tapes, there's no chance of the paint bleeding under the edge. After all the blisters were covered, I sprayed the rest of the cowl red, and since it's a darker color than the cream yellow, it covered right over the feathered color. This is Krylon paint, and it dries to touch in about 10 minutes, and you can easily handle it in less than an hour. The yellow is the "Fusion" paint Krylon makes for plastic, and it recommends recoating within an hour or after 7 days. The red is regular Krylon and it can be recoated any time. I let both paints cure for at least four days before taping over them with anything.

    After the red had dried for a couple of hours, I pulled the tape off the blisters. I thought about making the small stripe in the middle of the blister, but liked the effect like it was and just left the entire blister yellow. It sort of sets off the front of the plane.


    SoCal Sal---I looked at your pics again of you posed with your plane, and the video I saw was made at that field, the mountains in the background are the same. Seems like no matter what the scale, they all fly like the full-scale, needing a bit of power on approach, and I know what you mean about not "feeling it" and staying on the ground.
    Club Saito #2, WACO Brotherhood #20. What other trouble can I get into?

  8. #2608

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    RE: WACO YMF

    Jay- Think you'll make it to our fly-in June 2 ? That's a week from tomorrow. Anyone else in the area of Hickory NC is also invited. It's our 5th annual Warbirds over Wilson Field; an any-size warbird event, no IMAA required, but AMA is. We'll have the local VFD cooking and serving drinks, they keep all those proceeds. $10 landing fee, 50-50 and probably some stuff to raffle. Our field has 900 feet of paved runway and a parallel grass runway the same length. Our CD has said in the AMA magazine ad that we weren't allowing turbines, although I wonder. One of our club members just got an F-16 and I'm betting he'll want to fly it. We had about 30 pilots last year and a couple hundred spectators. Right now, the weather looks great for the weekend.

    BTW, our definition of warbird extends to any plane used as a trainer or impressed service, so bring your Waco's, they don't have to be in warpaint. Just can't put stars on a Kadet Sr or 40% Edge, etc. and show up.
    Club Saito #2, WACO Brotherhood #20. What other trouble can I get into?

  9. #2609

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    RE: WACO YMF

    Dang it, DANG IT DANG IT

    Went to the field after my last post, figured on flying the UMF again, see if my readjusted throws worked any better. Well, I headed down the runway, the tail was up, but I had gotten a tad crooked and was about to get a wingtip into the weeds at the edge of the grass. Rather than coming out of the throttle , hitting the rudder and doing a (hopefully) simple ground loop back out in the short grass, I tried horsing it off with minimal flying speed, caught the wingtip anyway, and did a worse cartwheel out in the weeds.

    Broke the right upper wingtip, left lower wingtip, and the bracket on the wheel pants (both sides) broke loose, plus one of the spring struts on the main gear broke. Nothing major that I can tell, I'll take it apart tonite and see what else. If I bust my butt, I can have the wingtips fixed this weekend, and maybe painted by next.

    My fault entirely, dumb thumbed it. dang it, DANG IT,DANG IT
    Club Saito #2, WACO Brotherhood #20. What other trouble can I get into?

  10. #2610

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    RE: WACO YMF

    Man, I hate to hear that! At least it is fixable, and something for me to file away for future time, WACO's don't fly until they are ready.
    On a more positive note, it sounds as if the plane flys and handles well. Were you able to get the throttle throw adjusted the way you wanted?
    Jim,
    WACO Brotherhood #3, AMA 816592, IMAA 41683,

  11. #2611
    Live Wire's Avatar
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    RE: WACO YMF

    Bill
    My Puter died agout 3 weeks ago doing the same thing and my Guru replaced the ram and it started and we saved every thing. Just a thought
    Larry K
    Sig Brotherhood # 1 Sig Kadet Brotherhood # 4 WACO Brotherhood #34 Cub Brotherhood 14

  12. #2612

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    RE: WACO YMF


    ORIGINAL: Jim Henley

    Man, I hate to hear that! At least it is fixable, and something for me to file away for future time, WACO's don't fly until they are ready.
    On a more positive note, it sounds as if the plane flys and handles well. Were you able to get the throttle throw adjusted the way you wanted?
    It does handle well; it was really sensitive on the maiden because I had too much throw in the controls. If I just nudged the sticks, it was nice. The control surfaces are VERY effective. Today, as the tail came up and the tailwheel quit steering the ass end, I didn't get enough right rudder in before the P factor started the plane left. It was at the point where you're too fast to stop and too slow to fly. If I'd had about five more feet, I could have gotten airborne, it would have been an ugly takeoff, but would have missed the weeds. I did get the throttle like I wanted, though. The DX-7 doesn't have exponential for the throttle (on the airplane settings, it does on heli), and there is a high and low end point adjustment. It's a matter of having the low end adjustment run longer, and the high end take over later. This allows most of the low end travel to operate the servo most of its travel, giving less movement of the servo arm through the first half of the stick movement. At any rate, I have a lot finer control in the first half of the stick now (a lot of good it does me now)

    I have the covering cut away already on the wingtips. It will be straightforward to repair the structure, but a challenge to re-cover the tips and hide the repair. I think if I do it at a rib and then cover the seam with a new rib tape, it will be okay. the lower wingtip will require removing the aileron. I used DuBro pinned hinges, so all I have to do is pull the small cotter pins. I didn't open the ends much, so they will come out easily.

    This is crazy; I've flown it 1-1/2 times (?) for a total of about twelve minutes and I'm already talking about repairs. I hope this isn't a trend.
    Club Saito #2, WACO Brotherhood #20. What other trouble can I get into?

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    RE: WACO YMF

    Thats probably about what I had on the Stearman last year when I had the engine die and was about 50 ft short of clearing the trees.
    Had to repair both wings which required recovering them. However, Monocote is much easier to apply than koveral and dope. Don't think of it as a trend, more of a lesson learned. ( One I still have trouble with !!) The important thing is, you can (and will) get it repaired.
    Jim,
    WACO Brotherhood #3, AMA 816592, IMAA 41683,

  14. #2614

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    RE: WACO YMF

    Hey Jim,
    Did you break in that new 150 yet, and are you still on for this weekend ?
    I mean providing that Waco is done.



    George
    WACO Brotherhood # 5
    Remember, Man\'\'s 2nd greatest adventure is FLYING, LANDING is his FIRST.

  15. #2615
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    RE: WACO YMF

    Lt. - I am deeply sorry about your ground mishap (emphasis on ground). Coulda been a lot worse for sure. At least the aircraft is repairable and there was no serious injury or loss of life (although I bet you felt like dyin').

    Get'er fixed and back up. I wish I lived in your woods, I'd come over and help you out. And not to be morbid Sir, but you are pretty digitally inclined with posting pics... and some pre-repair / post-repair photos might be of some value here.

    All you uttered was a big, bold font DANG IT??? Bet you didn't say that when it happened...[8D].

    Out Here Ken

    Todd
    WACO Brotherhood #47

  16. #2616
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    RE: WACO YMF

    Khodges,

    Sorry to hear of your mishap with the weeds!!! A similar thing happened to me with my F6F Hellcat back in 1986 (I know, it's not a WACO); I stalled it by trying to rotate before I got sufficient airspeed and before reaching the edge of our flying field. The result was not too bad; I was out flying within a couple of weeks (if my memory is correct).

    What I learned from that mishap was well worth the effort. I had a better understanding of the flight characteristics of my plane and that situation has not happened since then!! It was a great learning experience (and painful) for me.

    Anyway, by looking at your photos of your WACO that you have posted before your mishap, I'll bet you will do a great repair and it will not be noticeable.
    Tom - AMA Member Since 1973
    WACO Brother #39

  17. #2617

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    RE: WACO YMF

    Just received this WACO flick thats on youtube from Dany at Team Genesis. thought everyone would enjoy this.
    TR
    WACO Brotherhood #69


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iK0u2nSronc

  18. #2618

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    RE: WACO YMF

    Hey George, how are you? No, have not started the Saito yet, I'm still trying to locate a 90 degree exhaust adaptor. Horizon Hobbies estimates on availability just keep being shoved back, so I guess I'll have to go to one of the specialty exhaust companies. I have the covering on and now that it is warm out I will get a coat of nitrate dope on everything, however I still think I want to use Klass Kote for the primer and finish coats. The instrument panel is just about complete as the sides of the cockpit. I'll try to get some pictures posted later. My hope now, is to have the plane ready for the clubs Labor Day Air Show, so I guess I'll take the Stearman to the fun fly on Monday.
    Jim,
    WACO Brotherhood #3, AMA 816592, IMAA 41683,

  19. #2619
    Stickbuilder's Avatar
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    RE: WACO YMF

    Ken,

    Sorry about your mishap. Maybe it will be the last one (first ding). Goes to show what I've been trying to say all along. Flying speed is important on the WACO. Keep enough on final, and have enough on takeoff. I'm looking forward to seeing the repair pics, and the second maiden photos. I'm still trying to find out what is wrong with my C-drive. One local geek says he can fix it. I'll see.

    Bill, AMA 4720
    WACO Brotherhood #1
    Its easy, just glue all the pieces together, and sand off everything that doesnt look like an airplane.

  20. #2620

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    RE: WACO YMF

    George,
    Well your post got me going and I got the Saito fired up today. I built a quicky test stand out of some scrap lumber and clamped it to my "Workmate". The Saito fired right up and I got 3 20oz. tanks run through it today. If the weather is still bad tomorrow I will get some more time on the stand, perhaps start leaning out the mixture screw.
    On another note, after all the discussion about the tail wheel, I decided to drive my tail wheel with either it's own servo or off the rudder servo. It will not be linked to the rudder it's self. After looking at things I was afraid I would have an issue with the linkage binding when the rudder was fully thrown left. Anyway it was easy to do and I think this will be the way to go.
    I am posting the photos of the instrument panel and the cockpit sides. Still have a way to go before I mount them in the fuselage but they are almost complete and ready when that time comes.
    Thanks again to RC Outlaw, who was kind enough to set me up with the instrument panel parts from his personal stash !
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    Jim,
    WACO Brotherhood #3, AMA 816592, IMAA 41683,

  21. #2621

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    RE: WACO YMF

    ORIGINAL: Stickbuilder

    Ken,

    Sorry about your mishap. Maybe it will be the last one (first ding). Goes to show what I've been trying to say all along. Flying speed is important on the WACO. Keep enough on final, and have enough on takeoff. I'm looking forward to seeing the repair pics, and the second maiden photos. I'm still trying to find out what is wrong with my C-drive. One local geek says he can fix it. I'll see.

    Bill, AMA 4720
    WACO Brotherhood #1
    I've sat and analyzed everything I did that led up to sticking it in the weeds, sort of like the show on TV "Seconds from Disaster". I have determined that the root cause is this: since I took the right thrust out, the normal tendency obviously is to swing left, correct?
    This is no problem if you're ready for it, and the rudder on this plane is very effective, even at slow speeds. During the maiden flight, it (lack of right thrust) didn't affect it inflight at all. However, I have the tailwheel aligned with the rudder (when rudder is straight, so is the tailwheel). It tracks straight at the beginning of the takeoff roll, but as soon as the tail comes up, it starts veering left, and I don't get right rudder in fast enough, and tend to overcorrect and it starts getting squirrelly. What I'm going to try is to offset the tailwheel to the left, so I have to hold right rudder during taxi to keep the tailwheel straight. when the tailwheel comes up, I'll already have right rudder in, and hopefully the tracking will be straight enough that I can compensate without a big input. The whole thing started when it veered left as the tailwheel came up, and I didn't get it straightened out. I was going to ground loop regardless of what I did; if I'd given hard right to keep the left wingtip from catching the high grass, it would have swung around and caught the left wingtip on the ground. As it was, It caught the left wingtip anyway on the high grass as I tried to get off the ground and spun it around anyway. The other thing I didn't do that I should have was to use the paved runway for takeoff, or at least have stayed closer to it (it was to the right of the plane on it's roll.)

    I guess it's moot at this point, I've got two wingtips to repair. I plan to take the cover back to the next rib inboard, and sand the finish as close to the fabric as possible. After the structure is repaired, (that won't take long, realign everything, reglue, and reinforce the joints with some 1/2 oz fiberglass cloth and Ca) I plan to re-cover the tips, and make the seam between old and new on top of the rib, and hide it with the new rib tape. Then dope, prime and paint. I think I can get it all done by this coming weekend for our warbird fly-in. I may leave off the wheel pants for a bit, I have to repair one of them as the bracket broke loose from the wheel collar it was affixed to. I'll have to check the balance without the pants to see if it's flyable without them, though. The bottom of the cowl got pushed into the muffler and spark plug, but a little sandpaper and touch up paint will fix that. No other damage I can find after disassembling the plane.

    I'll take pictures of the damaged tips and the repair work.
    Club Saito #2, WACO Brotherhood #20. What other trouble can I get into?

  22. #2622

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    RE: WACO YMF

    Ken,
    GOOD LESSON LEARNED HERE, I used to do that all the time as far as veering off one way or another, no MORE though If I'm not satisfied with the take off I SIMPLY THROTTLE BACK TO IDLE,TURN AROUND AND START OVER ,ITS JUST NOT WORTH YANKING THE PLANE OFF , NOT with all the time invested in that we all seem to have in our models.
    JUST MY 2 CENTS WORTH, FOR WHAT ITS WORTH.
    Remember, Man\'\'s 2nd greatest adventure is FLYING, LANDING is his FIRST.

  23. #2623

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    RE: WACO YMF

    ooooooppps,

    FORGOT TO SIGN THE POST

    GEORGE
    WACO Brotherhood # 5


    thats looks better


    Remember, Man\'\'s 2nd greatest adventure is FLYING, LANDING is his FIRST.

  24. #2624

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    RE: WACO YMF

    Yeah, George, in retrospect, knowing I would ground loop whatever I did at that point, I should have at least opted for the ground loop while still on the ground. Had I been about two seconds earlier making the decision, that's what I would have done, but half the synapses in my brain between my eyes and decision making process were apparently on vacation, some more were taking a coffee break, and the rest were too stupid to choose "door number two"

    I worked until 2:30 this morning, and have the tip structures repaired. Today I plan to re-cover them and see how well I can blend the repair. I'll post complete pics and descriptions this evening.

    Jim Henley, I love your instrument panel, it has the perfect Golden Age look with the oval face in it. Nicely done.
    Club Saito #2, WACO Brotherhood #20. What other trouble can I get into?

  25. #2625

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    RE: WACO YMF

    HELLO.......ello..........lo..........o.....o


    HELLO hello........ello.....lo.....o....o Is anybody out there.......ere....ere..??? Everybody must be having a great Memorial Day weekend, least I hope so.

    Well, the wings are fixed and covered, I'll have a couple of coats of dope on them by tonite, prime them tomorrow, paint Tuesday.
    Here's a few pics of the damage, first is right upper wingtip, then left lower tip, then the repairs and then recovered and taped:
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    Club Saito #2, WACO Brotherhood #20. What other trouble can I get into?


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