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WACO YMF

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Old 11-17-2006, 08:12 PM
  #251
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Evan,

Good to have you in here. I have built several of these 20% Pica based, and Pica Kitted YMF's, and never had one come in under 14 pounds. Sure, you can eliminate some ribs, and perhaps even a former or so, and you can cut holes in the tail group. You will not eliminate that much weight and keep the structural integrity in this plane. The open framework in this one is also 1/4 square balsa. There is just a lot of wood in this one, and all formers ahead of the wing saddle are ply as well. The wings could be modified to a round leading edge rather than the D-tube wing that is called for, and that would eliminate some weight as well. You could substitute 1/16" sheeting for the heavier sheeting that is called for with the PICA. You could also go and purchase the COX ARF version that is significantly lighter (which tells me that the parts count is lower as is the balsa thickness) and have it residing in the trash bin much more quickly.

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Old 11-17-2006, 10:31 PM
  #252
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Mark,
I have the kit supplied ABS cowl and it is 8 1/8 inside diameter across the back side.
Jim
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Old 11-17-2006, 11:58 PM
  #253
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: Jim Henley

Mark,
I have the kit supplied ABS cowl and it is 8 1/8 inside diameter across the back side.
Jim
Thanks, Jim. I will have a look at some of my engine 3-views and see if that fits anything or not. I have a feeling that any 40cc class engine will have at least a spark plug and lead sticking out at that size...

On a different note, I'm feeling left out of the Waco Brotherhood. Can I be member #4?


Thanks,
Mark
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Old 11-18-2006, 03:20 AM
  #254
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Sharing some good info here
I ordered my cowl and wheel pants from Stan's. Six week delay to get parts plus they have to ship it to me up here in Canada! It'll be a Christmas present

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Old 11-18-2006, 05:15 AM
  #255
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: mmattockx


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Jim Henley

Mark,
I have the kit supplied ABS cowl and it is 8 1/8 inside diameter across the back side.
Jim
Thanks, Jim. I will have a look at some of my engine 3-views and see if that fits anything or not. I have a feeling that any 40cc class engine will have at least a spark plug and lead sticking out at that size...

On a different note, I'm feeling left out of the Waco Brotherhood. Can I be member #4?


Thanks,
Mark
There is no requirement for being in the WACO Brotherhood, other than a love for these wonderful old noisy windy rag bags. There are no meetings, no dues, the only rule is to love the old birds, and help others who also love them. You can pick any number that is not in use. If you wish to be #4, by all means have at it.

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Old 11-18-2006, 05:19 AM
  #256
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I hope that the parts that Stan's supplies is of better quality than some that I have seen for the WACO. I saw a set of wheel pants from another supplier (who will remain nameless, but is out of Arkansas[8D]) and the parts were full of voids and pin holes. There was more resin in the parting line than in the part itself. Still, and all, it was better than having to make them from wood and then glassing them.

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Old 11-18-2006, 06:15 AM
  #257
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Chaps,
I hope that this bit will be of help to anyone building from plans rather than a kit, as you may have to re-draw some of the bits. It is not intended to push any particular idea or anything, but it might help to keep lead out of the front of these old things. All the Waco's had similar structures so this idea is generic,ie, it suits all of them. I build the fuselage space frame from 1/4 sq. balsa, following the manufacturers drawing where possible and use 1/8 ply as gussets at the U/C attachment points and C/S strut points. The engine mounting plate is two laminations of 1/8 ply, one bit square to fit in the front of the frame, one bit round to match the shape of the foward fuselage. all other fuselage formers are 1/8" balsa, slotted for 1/16 x 1/4 spruce stringers on edge as required. The U/C legs are simply two bits of ally tube, one sliding inside the other with a fairly light spring to afford the shock loadings. the controlling struts are bolted to the axle and the outer leg and all are hinged to brackets bolted to those ply gussets. One cannot build such a beautiful lady and not take a deal of care over her legs. Tail outlines are 4 x 1/16 x1/4 strips laminated around an MDF form, wingtips too. all tail ribs 1/16 balsa cap stripped for stiffness. Wing spars 1/4 sq spruce, webbed both sides with 1/16 balsa. Pine hard points at strut/rigging hardpoints. I use 24# steel fittings wrapped about the spars and drilled for 1/8 nylon bolts to bolt the wing struts and rigging wires. These fittings are bolted through those spar hardpoints to locate them. Wings slide on to 1/8 steel rods fitted to the upper C/S and lower fuselage, all held in place with those rigging wires which are 1/16 welding rod suitably formed and carry all the flight loads. The wing upper C/S is of similar build, sheeted with 1/16 balsa and lithoplate for the tanks. Wing L/E is simply wrapped with 1/16 sheet, like a Taurus wing. Hope the pics give a better idea.
More detail if anyone cares.
Evan.
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Old 11-18-2006, 06:19 AM
  #258
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Bugger! Sorry 'bout those other images, don't know where they came from, damn confusers, computers I mean...Evan.
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Old 11-18-2006, 05:19 PM
  #259
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Evan, your technique is way above me Looks great though!

Bill:
I went with Stans because they use a finishing epoxy resin unlike the others who use a polyster fiberglass resin. The last two cowls I received from them were beautiful. It has exchanged hands so we will see!

Did someone say laser cut


EDIT( darn, forgot the year in the camera date, we need never ending batteries)
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Old 11-18-2006, 06:23 PM
  #260
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: Hughes500E

Evan, your technique is way above me Looks great though!

Bill:
I went with Stans because they use a finishing epoxy resin unlike the others who use a polyster fiberglass resin. The last two cowls I received from them were beautiful. It has exchanged hands so we will see!

Did someone say laser cut


EDIT( darn, forgot the year in the camera date, we need never ending batteries)
And your excuse for building a warp into the wing would be.........? Howd'ja get your hands on one of them ( laser cut kits)? Aintcha gonna take the burn off the parts before you use them? Hope so, the adhesive does not adhere well to burned wood.

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Old 11-18-2006, 07:27 PM
  #261
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Quote:
Aintcha gonna take the burn off the parts before you use them?

HAHA, one step ahead of ya! Sandblaster will be here by Monday. Had to order some special finer sand
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Old 11-18-2006, 08:19 PM
  #262
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: Hughes500E

Quote:
Aintcha gonna take the burn off the parts before you use them?

HAHA, one step ahead of ya! Sandblaster will be here by Monday. Had to order some special finer sand
What'd you do ??? win the powerball or something? Geez nice setup. I'm semi-jealous.

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Old 11-19-2006, 05:01 PM
  #263
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Attached are the latest shots of the Tail Group, I got the L.E. of the elevator and rudder sanded to shape and have the slots cut for CA hinges. The void under the V. stab will be filled with a balsa fillet that sits on top of S-4. The fillet has been relieved to make a nice tight fit around the base of the V. stab and will be epoxied in place with the V. stab when that time comes. Meanwhile still need to shape the V. stab H. stab and control surfaces to airfoil. The tail wheel mount and push rod are ready, I want to run the rudder push rod and housing before I put the tail block and stringers back on.
Jim
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Old 11-19-2006, 06:13 PM
  #264
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Jim,

Try as I might, every time I see one of these in the stage of constructin that yours is, I say to myself, I really wish mine were in that stage. I'd do X differently, or I'd install Y this way. Take your time, go through several decision making processes, and then proceed. Boy, I wish my WACO was at the same stage that yours is ..... I'd.....

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Old 11-19-2006, 11:14 PM
  #265
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Default RE: WACO YMF

I get the same feelings, I would have wrapped a couple of 1/16 strips around the outlines just so I could round it off to look like the tube on the original... And a false rib near the fuse to make it look like the adjustable stab... must get that roll of paper out, I know just how its gonna look on the YQC...
Evan.
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Old 11-20-2006, 07:32 AM
  #266
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Hi all you Waco fans, I found this on eBay, might be useful to someone.



Pica Waco YMF3 Biplane cockpit interior kit 1/6 scale
Item number: 120052453754

Pica Waco YMF3 Biplane kit, rare find, scale aerobatics
Item number: 120052447274


Says mail to UK only but I have often convinced sellers that it is worthwhile to open up the auction.




old git - - - - - -aka John L.
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Old 11-20-2006, 12:58 PM
  #267
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John,

I had a look at the WACO Listed for sale from the U.K., and alas, it's the smaller version (60") I hope that someone over the pond wants to build a fine model, because this one truly is. I would try to talk the seller into shipping it to the U.S. if it were the 1/5th scale mob, but I have no interest in that scale. Thanks for thinking about us though.

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Old 11-20-2006, 07:16 PM
  #268
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Evan,
I am not familiar with the full scale WACO, so please bear with me. Your statement about using 1/16 to replicate the tube. I assume that the stab, fin and rudder had tubular construction, would you use 1/16 square or what size stock? Would you glue before you sand the airfoil shape? Also, I want to use beading cord to simulate the flying wires, that way they don't require a lot of adjustment. Where can I obtain a layout of the flying wires for the WACO?
Thanks again to everyone that has been so gracious with advise and tips to make this plane a success.
Jim
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Old 11-20-2006, 11:25 PM
  #269
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Jim,
Seems the Waco fin, rudder and stab/elevator outlines were 1" dia steel tube. At 1/5 scale that is 1/5" dia. Close enough for, say, 1/4 x 1/8 outlines (Two pieces of 1/16 x 1/4) rounded off to a semicircle after gluing around the outline. You can't see the inner half of the tube when it's covered, so it don't need to be there. I will copy a couple of UMF scale drawings and post them later, in the mean time type WACO into google search and go the WACO owners club of America and have a look at all those wonderful photos. Take note of all the wires and how they are attached to the frames, all I do is put a simplified bracket where needed and use nylon covered fishing trace, 40lb strain, and small K&S ally tube crimps. It really is so easy provided you put the blocks and bits in for these fittings before the model is covered.
Evan.
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Old 11-21-2006, 12:49 AM
  #270
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Jim,
Scans as promised.
Evan.
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Old 11-21-2006, 12:54 AM
  #271
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Try again
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Old 11-21-2006, 12:56 AM
  #272
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Nope, says file uploaded ok but it's not showing in the post. Oh well.
Evan.
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Old 11-21-2006, 01:44 AM
  #273
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In the meantime, try this...
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Old 11-21-2006, 06:40 PM
  #274
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Evan,
Thanks for trying to send them. I have been looking at all the WACO information I can, so the flying wires should not be a problem.
Will just have to decide where the attachment points should go and make provision for them now.
Jim
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Old 11-21-2006, 08:36 PM
  #275
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Quick question for all you kit builders
In the instruction manual (page 13, section 31 NOTE ) it is telling me that the black mark on the preshaped W-13 piece must be on the top.

What is the significance of this mark? I can not tell by looking at it!

Thanx
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