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WACO YMF

Old 06-16-2007, 10:43 PM
  #2826
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Default RE: WACO YMF

I thought it would be a YMF with a swapped engine? [] Thus the need to place the different cowl?
Oh well, Pica must have had a reason to do what they did. Not sure why I even brought it up.

Bill:
Did Brad ever get an ABS in the standard YMF config?
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Old 06-17-2007, 05:40 AM
  #2827
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Hey Larry, good to hear from you. How is your WACO re-covering job coming? I think I may be ready to start priming the fuse and tail feathers in a few days.
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Old 06-17-2007, 07:43 AM
  #2828
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stickbuilder

Bill,

Thanks I value your opinion. I will pick up the maple and use for the wing blocks & I do use the Titebond glue I 'll check to see if it is the # 2

May be one day I can drive up and have a look at your Waco that would be great. Thanks.
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Old 06-17-2007, 05:45 PM
  #2829
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Jim
Ihave it all recovered and repainted but a strange thing happened here[:@]
We had a contractor come in to reshingle our roof from hail damage from when you were hear and you would not believe that it rained again and we lost the sheet rock in three bed rooms from watter in the atic. Luck I moved my planes all out to the shop and they did not get damaged. But it sure put a stop to my building for a while[:@]
Larry K
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Old 06-17-2007, 06:11 PM
  #2830
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Larry,
That is terrible! I sure hate to hear that you had water damage to your home. Was the contrator responsible for the leak or was it because of the hail damage back in April?
Sure hope your home owners will cover the repair to your house, but no amount of money will repay the aggravation and inconvenience of having to deal with roof and ceiling damage!
Hope you had a good fathers day despite the leak!
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Old 06-17-2007, 06:16 PM
  #2831
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Well, the planes are all gone here at Creve Coeur Airport; well, the ones that came in for the fly-in at any rate. Fly-in is over, people flying out this morning headed for Idaho, Michigan, Wisconsin, New York and other places hundreds of miles away, all in planes built over 60 and 70 years ago, but looking like they rolled off the assembly line yesterday. The entire alphabet soup of WACO's was here, UBA (only three exist, two were here), UBF, UPF, ATO, ASO, QCF, SRE (once owned by Frank Borman), YMF, Taperwings, and several others I can't remember. Only one word to begin to describe it, and it's a poor one : INCREDIBLE

John (skylarkmk1) and I witnessed some history today. Although it's really not part of the WACO info (off-topic) I think you'll enjoy hearing about it. We met a guy named Desmond Penrose, nice English gent almost 80 years old. He was one of the principle pilots at the Shuttleworth Museum in England, and was also a test pilot for deHavilland Aircraft for over 40 years. Today, we were privileged to watch him become only the second still-living pilot to ever fly an original deHavilland DH-4 biplane, and the only living English pilot to ever fly one. He was not born when deHavilland built this plane back in 1920, but has flown almost every type of deHavilland aircraft in his career except this plane..............until this weekend. The restorer (and chief mechanic and pilot) of the DH-4 at CCA put this man in the "driver's seat" and told him to take it around the field (solo), which he proceeded to do after less than 5 minutes of cockpit familiarization. He did four or five take-offs and landings on two separate days and put more than 45 minutes flight time on the aircraft. He handled the plane like he flew it every day, You have to see this thing to believe it. Wingspan of 40 feet, big Liberty V-12 that spins a twelve foot prop. The engine turns a max of 1800 rpm and makes 400 hp. It sounds like a flock of Harley Davidsons flying over when it goes by.

I'm still here in St. Louis, won't have my pics downloaded for a couple of days. Skylarkmk 1 will probably have some up before too long, so get ready.
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Old 06-17-2007, 06:30 PM
  #2832
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Jim
If you know Colorado weather the shingles came off and the ran came down. This is and could get to be a sticky mess. I usually do all my building in the spare bed room. Sheet rock was on the floor.

I am building a Ziroli P 38 in the shop to big for the bed room thank God other wise all would have been lost.
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Old 06-17-2007, 08:41 PM
  #2833
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9-O-9,

Attached are photos of a YKS-6 tailwheel (green Tubing), nearly identical to a YMF/UMF from the '30s. Note the wheel yoke is formed from round tubing crimped on the end for the axel. The newer YMFs from Classic WACOs have a squared yoke with gussets at the upper corners as shown in the photos a few entries back. The was one YMF-5 Classic (1988) at the Fly In and it had the square tail wheel assembly. If you decide to build your YMF for entry into scale contests, you need to decide which era you want to do, 1930s or 1980s+. The yoke is the only noticible difference between the old and new, the internal structure is the same in both eras.
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Old 06-17-2007, 09:35 PM
  #2834
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All,

Adding to Ken’s post (2830) are photos of the two highest flight time still-living DH-4 Pilots. In the 1st photo, the gentleman on the left is Glenn Peck, Chief Restorer, Mechanic and Primary Pilot of the DH-4 from the Creve Coeur Airport Historical Aircraft Restoration Museum. On the right is Mr. Desmond Penrose (from England), De Havilland Test Pilot (ret), one of the original Demonstration Pilots for the Shuttleworth Collection (ret). The second photo pretty well sums it all up of Desmond’s feelings after landing the DH-4 today. Desmond now has over 2 hours flight time in the DH-4.
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Old 06-18-2007, 07:07 AM
  #2835
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Jay,

I have been e-mailing you about the great tee shirts appearantly it did not get to you
I need 2XX shirts.

Thanks,

Marc

crowman17
brother #40
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Old 06-18-2007, 09:45 AM
  #2836
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John and Ken - Sounds like you guys had a great time this weekend. Man I wish I lived closer to ya'alls woods! I have read plenty of great posts (and not so great posts [8D]) on RC universe - but WOW!!! What a great story about the DH-4 and Desmond Penrose. I wish I could have been there to see that and talk with him like you guys. I was thinking... (some Dogs can think sometimes), you and/or Ken should maybe think about writing up a short article of this weekends events with Desmond and get it published in one of the airplane mags out there like Flight Journal etc. Just a Doggie thought.

Thanks for the great post - can't wait to see the forthcoming pics.

Out Here,
Todd
Waco Brotherhood #47
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Old 06-18-2007, 11:15 AM
  #2837
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Nightstalker,

It was a great time. Ken actually flew in from N. Carolina to attend the Fly In. It was a lot of fun learning from these guys and gals about thier WACOs, differences between the same models and stuff. An example is the UPF-7, there were at least six there and some had Ring (Speed) cowls, and at least one had a bump cowl and another a smooth cowl.

There will be an article about Desmond and the DH-4 this Fall in Air Classics magazine. Giles (I forgot to get his last name) is a professional photo-journalist who works for Air Classics as their Antique writer and spent many hours talking with Glenn, the Chief Restorer, about the DH-4 and Desmond. Don, the "official" photographer for CCA, helped Giles and actually flew Giles in his (Dons) Fairchild for about 2 hours to get air to air photos of the DH-4 with either Glen or Desmond at the Controls. Look for Air Classics in 3-6 months with a cover photo of the DH-4.

The two pictures below are of a 1933 UBA (single side by side cockpit) NC 13041, the second UBA at CCA this weekend. There are only 3 known that are flying and 2 were here. The close up is of Phil and Ruthie Coulson, owners getting ready to depart after an enjoyable weekend. Phil is also the President of the American WACO Club and Ruthie ran the check-in and registration desk for the Fly In
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Old 06-18-2007, 12:21 PM
  #2838
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Speaking of having fun, Ken got his first Waco ride Friday in a UPF-7, NC 39748, owned by Joe Norris who works for the EAA. The first picture is of Ken and Joe getting ready, #2 is Ken before taxi and #3 is after the flight (notice the size of the smile). One happy camper. Ken also got to fly in a PT-17 on Saturday for the Fly-Out to Breakfast over in Bellevile, Il. (picture 4).
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Old 06-18-2007, 12:44 PM
  #2839
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Note to Ken.....Brylcreme (a little dab'll do ya)

Bill, AMA 4720
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Old 06-18-2007, 12:46 PM
  #2840
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Cool photos, can't wait to see the rest. [8D]
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Old 06-18-2007, 12:48 PM
  #2841
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skylarkmk1



John,

Looks like you & Ken had a BIG time at the fly in. The pic are great a well appreciated. It's one thing seeing pics but to see all those WACO first hand must have been vary special.
I would really like to see one up close maybe one day.
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Old 06-18-2007, 03:33 PM
  #2842
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: Stickbuilder

Note to Ken.....Brylcreme (a little dab'll do ya)

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1
If I had stuck my head above the windscreen, I could have gotten a little AeroShell 100 on it. Probably would have held better, too.

John was off shooting the DH-4, I think, or he could have gone in another Stearman on the fly-out. The airspace around CCA is odd, you have to stay under 1600 MSL due to Class B airspace above CCA.(field elevation at CCA is 460 MSL) If you fly east, there is a single corridor you can fly through under the Class B; this is what we did going east to Belleville, and it takes you directly across downtown St. Louis. We flew straight over the Anheuser Busch Brewery, and just south of the Gateway Arch as we crossed the Mississippi River. There were two other Stearmans on our wing, and several others in trail or ahead of us. In all, over thirty aircraft participated in the fly-out, from an Aeronca L-14 to an RV-8 homebuilt, to a Skybolt, about six Stearmans and the rest were WACO's. The residential airpark was beautiful; we ate breakfast, stayed about an hour, and flew back. The yellow and green SRE in the last pic once belonged to Frank Borman (Apollo 8 astronaut and former Eastern Airlines Prez). That is truly the hotrod of the WACO family. 9 cyl P&W, cruises at over 175 mph. (this is what the new Sig ARF is)
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Old 06-18-2007, 03:55 PM
  #2843
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Here's a few more pics of the Fly-In. The guy in front of the red UPF-7 is Joe Norris, the pilot who took John and I for our rides. Helluva nice guy, and we gave him one of my Brotherhood T-shirts and made him an honorary Brother. He needs a number, Master Chief. John is in the front seat in one pic, getting ready for his flight. There were more UPF's there than any other type, but then they made over 400 of them. Cabin WACO's were in abundance, many types; I couldn't keep the alphabet soup straight. Several UBF's including the Texaco model, which was originally used for testing aviation gasolines. Hope you guys don't get sick of looking at WACO's; between John and I we probably have over 1000 pictures we took this weekend.

There are many other notable planes other than WACO's and Stearmans. There is, of course, the only flying DH-4 in the world, there's a Pietenpol Air Camper, cute little thing; a Fairchild 27, a Staggerwing Beech, an A-1D Skyraider, and the baddest of them all, a P-51D Mustang. And every one of them flew this weekend.
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Old 06-18-2007, 04:19 PM
  #2844
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The same guy owned both of these planes, plus a T-6 Texan. The Stearman is painted as a "recall" plane; no radios in these trainers way back when, and when the trainees and instructors saw this plane fly into the training area, they would form up on it and return to the field.
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Old 06-18-2007, 09:29 PM
  #2845
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Great coverage of your weekend, guys!

A note to all who ordered shirts. The first batch was sent out yesterday and the rest will go out tomorrow. All via United States Postal Service.

I have about 8 XXL's and few Large tees left if anyone wishes to purchase more.

HUGHES500- I sent you a PM
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Old 06-18-2007, 09:52 PM
  #2846
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damifino

I would like to get one or two of the large shirts if you still have any.

Thanks
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Old 06-18-2007, 10:02 PM
  #2847
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mrdhud- I sent you a PM
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Old 06-19-2007, 02:09 AM
  #2848
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Ken, thanks for the superb pictures, especially the red YPF-7 you had a flight in. I appreciated John's pictures too. There will be no excuse for lack of clear documentation in future. While I'm at it, thanks to all the other contributors, this has been a great thread. Long may the info' remain available.

Your picture illustrates how they managed to avoid differential angular movement of the ailerons. The connection between upper and lower is made by using a control rod at the extreme rear of the control surface and no doubt, exactly the same length as the distance between the hinges. I love a simple solution AND it avoids the need for any fancy shaped control horns.

I am quite green with envy here. I just watched the flypast over London, to remember the men who fell in the Falklands twentyfive years ago. It was intended to represent the aircraft that were involved in re-taking the Falklands. There were no Harriers, because they are single engined craft Health and Safety criteria led them to ban flying them over the capital, they said on the Television coverage. There was no mention of the reason why the Vulcan delta winged bomber was absent.



WACO Brotherhood No. 14.

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Old 06-19-2007, 07:45 AM
  #2849
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: khodges

The guy in front of the red UPF-7 is Joe Norris, the pilot who took John and I for our rides. Helluva nice guy, and we gave him one of my Brotherhood T-shirts and made him an honorary Brother. He needs a number, Master Chief. John is in the front seat in one pic, getting ready for his flight.

Ken,

If you will take a look back at page #110, you will find that Joe has been awarded Brotherhood number 54. I only hope that he takes a look at this thread, and finds himself among those who truly love the old Ragbags. You are one fortunate man there Ken....It's becoming more and more difficult to find nice things to say about you. Do I sound jealous????? I am.

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Old 06-19-2007, 09:11 AM
  #2850
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All,

Not only were there many planes to take pictures of, there were also 3 seminars given.

The first (on Friday) was by Steve Curry of Radial Engines, LTD who talked about engine detonation, octane ratings and the pros and cons of different oils used in the engines.

The second was by Jim and Dondi Miller from Aircraft Technical Support, Inc. Jim talked about covering with the Poly-Fiber products (paints and fabrics) and Randolph paints. His talk included applying the fabric to minimize sag between ribs, applying paint to minimize pin holes and to make sure it sticks to the polyester fabrics (brush it on to cause the paint to encapsulate the fibers, spray will just lay on top and peel off). After the base/"primer" coat is done, you can then spray. He also cautioned against using the “-thane” products unless you have the specialized breathing equipment required. Check out Poly-Fiber on the web, they have DVDs and books on covering. Their “How To Cover An Aircraft” is well worth the $10 it costs. They also have color chip charts with references to Federal #s and G.A. Factory colors.

The last seminar was on Saturday by John Murray, a local certified aircraft welder, who talked about the proper way to weld with a “TIG” welder, heat treatment and tempering (he sends many of the parts he makes out to a commercial heat treating company and recommends doing so), the colors of temperatures of the metals, stress relief after welding and/or bending and also gave demonstrations. I will be getting back with him to find out what he has to say about working with music wire.

All three seminars were very interesting and were applicable to our little section of aviation.

The photos below are some of the Cabin Waco’s that were present. From left to right; a 1932 UEC (Maroon/Blue/Gold) NC 13050, 1934 UKC (Red/Cream) NC 14010, 1937 YKS-7 (Met Blue/White) NC 17474, 1941 SRE (Yellow/Green trim) NC 58785 and 1942 VKS-7F (Cream/Red trim) NC 31663.
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