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WACO YMF

Old 06-25-2007, 03:57 PM
  #2926
khodges
 
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Default RE: WACO YMF

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ORIGINAL: Stickbuilder

Ken,

Did you make your standoff's, or did you use a commercially available set? I am going to do a further modification on the one that I'm building, and it looks as if I will need some standoff's in the 1 1//8" range. I haven't really attempted to mount the 160 on this one yet, but that looks about right by the eyeball. I'm thinking about turning some from 6061 T-6 for this one. I do know that there will be no (read that NONE, ZIP, Zero) blind nuts on this one. The engine will be through bolted, and there will be access to the back of the firewall to be able to replace the fastners if needed. That is what the removable panels on the sides of the fuselage (behind the cowl) will be used for (with the fuel dot inside as well). There is a lot to be said for using aircraft lock nuts and fender washers (lock washers too). I'm done with these cheap T-nuts that won't hold, strip, punch out (add your favorite screw-up here). I'm not going to use any stainless fastners either. Black carbon steel bolts will be used for mounting the engine.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1
Nothin' so high-tech as 6061, but I did make mine, or, I should say, bought some nylon spacers from the specialty parts bins at Lowe's and used them. They come in different lengths, inside and outside diameters and thicknesses, just a matter of picking out the sizes I needed and trimming the length. The ones I used had a hole that was a snug slide fit for a 8-32 hex head machine screw; I still used blind nuts, but these are fiberglassed in place and won't come loose. the only thing about mounting the engine the way I did is that you have to slide the screws through the mounting plate holes, then the spacer, then a washer (times four screws, spacers and washers) and try to keep it all from falling off until you get the screws started into the blind nuts.

I had thought about putting the blind nuts on the outside of the firewall, and screwing the bolts from the inside, and then putting a low profile nut on the outside to lock them in place. This would give you 4 studs sticking out; easier to hang stuff on and then use nylock nuts to hold it in place---but I didn't.

On another note, I've come up with an aluminum main gear for the YMF, designed specifically for my ARF, but should be readily adaptable to the Pica kit, since it will screw directly to the rails the wire gear mounts to. Jay (damifino) is going to cut and bend it for me, I'll post the mounting and finishing of it. Should look just like the wire gear when done, just a tad heavier, but much stronger. Wheel pants will fit without the problem of them loosening and rotating on the axle.
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Old 06-25-2007, 04:01 PM
  #2927
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Default RE: WACO YMF


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Stickbuilder


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Nightstalker


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Stickbuilder


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ORIGINAL: Nightstalker

You look pretty stylin' decked out in "WACO" there Jim. Glad to see you wearing your eye protection too... don't wanna catch a piece of broken wing tip in your eye[8D].

Todd
WACO Brotherhood #47
Or a piece of Barn roof either.....

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1
Just when I thought you were over the barn roof thing... Hey, if you would have just stayed inside, asleep in your bed, you wouldn't have had to worry about flying barn debris, or flying corn stalks, soybeans, livestock etc. We weren't making that much noise - and who builds a dang barn right in the flight path of a low flying MH-47 Chinook anyways???


Out Here
Nightstalker... err... Barnstalker

Waco Brotherhood #47
Yeah, but who ever heard of putting a refueling probe on the front end of a MH-47 Hook?????

You guys were having entirely too much fun flying NOE to allow peace-loving farmers to sleep through that much noise. You might be stealthy, but something the size of a hook makes tons of noise, not to mention the sound of metal roofing hitting the ground (and trees)
The cows might just about now be starting to give milk again. I doubt if the chickens have started laying eggs again.

And there is/was an FAR that addressed the minimum altitude for aircraft over a dwelling.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1
It's a real chore getting fuel in flight without that probe and we never paid much attention to FARs much - especially this one (b):

Sec. 135.203

VFR: Minimum altitudes.

Except when necessary for takeoff and landing, no person may operate under VFR--
(a) An airplane--
(1) During the day, below 500 feet above the surface or less than 500 feet horizontally from any obstacle; or
(2) At night, at an altitude less than 1,000 feet above the highest obstacle within a horizontal distance of 5 miles from the course intended to be flown or, in designated mountainous terrain, less than 2,000 feet above the highest obstacle within a horizontal distance of 5 miles from the course intended to be flown; or
(b) A helicopter over a congested area at an altitude less than 300 feet above the surface.

Your property wasn't congested either... unless you consider acres and acres of fresh produce congestion. And since when is a barn a dwelling?... unless your a chicken[8D]

Now get back on topic Master Chief before we start pi$$ing folks off... again.

Todd
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Old 06-25-2007, 05:42 PM
  #2928
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Got some primer on the fuselage and tail feathers this weekend, now I can REALLY SEE all the IMPERFECTIONS.. I guess thats why they invented sand paper !
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Old 06-25-2007, 06:08 PM
  #2929
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Default RE: WACO YMF

That looks excellent Jim. I was hoping the primer on mine would of covered a lot more than it did as well.

Next build I do, it will be with Koveral and dope, very nice!
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Old 06-26-2007, 07:54 AM
  #2930
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Default RE: WACO YMF

The koverall still will show imperfections as well as pin holes. At least it is easy to correct these imperfections.

Bill, AMA 4720
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Old 06-26-2007, 10:16 AM
  #2931
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ORIGINAL: khodges

The same guy owned both of these planes, plus a T-6 Texan. The Stearman is painted as a "recall" plane; no radios in these trainers way back when, and when the trainees and instructors saw this plane fly into the training area, they would form up on it and return to the field.

Ken --
If this works, I'll post some pics of my Stearman in the Recall scheme. I saw one of these years ago at a flyin on the eastern Shore of Md, and this is a copy, except for the "66", which is my VMI class. As you can see, it's hanging in my office, 'cause I don't want to have to deal w/ the 50+ screws, bolts, clevises etc it takes to get the wings on and off.
Al
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Old 06-26-2007, 10:59 AM
  #2932
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Ken and John --
I really envy you your time at the flyin. I'm attaching a couple of more pics of "Big Red", the model G17 Staggerwing you showed the other day., as well as another G17 that was at the Tullahoma Beech flyin a year ot so ago. (But that's it for the "other than Waco" posts for me!
Al


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Old 06-26-2007, 11:09 AM
  #2933
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Al,

I have more picture of Les' Recall PT-17, NC 48784, #137, if you need some. He just bought it and brought it to Creve Coeur Airport on the 5th of May 2007. It needed some minor maintenance, but that was attended to and was flown during the Fly In. The Staggerwing, NC 44G is also based here at CCA.
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Old 06-27-2007, 08:08 AM
  #2934
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Default RE: WACO YMF

I've been adding stringers to my latest, and putting in the backer boards for the wing fillets. This problem that I'm still having with my computer is the pitts.....The chief guru says that he does not know when I'll have it back. I can't post any photos until I get it back online. Jay (damifino) and I have been talking about several ways to replicate the metal panels on the fuse, and I'm rethinking my idea of using real metal for the panels. We are also working on a more scalelike method of mounting the top wing and the Interplane attachments. This one will not use the stock interplanes, but will use interplanes that look like three seperate pieces.

Bill, AMA 4720
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Old 06-27-2007, 08:34 AM
  #2935
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Been reading the posts here, and maybe my suggestion will work for you. To replicate the metal parts on the Waco you may try using some aluminum flashing you can purchase in just about any hardware store, it is thin and it is strong. Also a hint as to the corrugated covering on the ailerons instead of pounding out litoplates, which by the way may also be used for metal parts Sig sell corrugated plastic for their Morrissey Bravo stock numbers SIGRPCP .010X8X17 $2.50 per sheet. SIGPPCP .010x6 1/2x13 1/2 $1.99 per sheet!

Hope this helps someone.
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Old 06-27-2007, 09:00 AM
  #2936
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Default RE: WACO YMF

John,

I did consider the aluminum roof flashing, but I wanted to give the illusion of having metal plates without the possibility of all the metal to metal contact and the resulting RF problems that can creep in. I will probably use the old add primer in layers method for mine.

The SIG plastic from the morrissey kit is not a bad idea, but can you let me know what the spacing between the corrugations are? The Pica 1/5th kit uses 27 corrugations per aileron surface, and scale appears to need 34. Size of the corrugations would come into play as well, because if they are too large, they will stick out like a sore thumb. I suppose that I could build a mold, and pull them from fiberglass, and build the internals into the skins, rather than adding thin skins to a built-up balsa structure. It is not going to be a simple fix, I suppose. The spacing on the kit version is about 1/2", and for the corrugation to look scale, they need to be about .41". That is only 1/10" difference, but the apperance would be noticable.

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Old 06-27-2007, 09:44 AM
  #2937
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Bill,

The only YMF to show up at the Fly In was NC 14081, a 1987 YMF Classic. Here are some photos of the Cabane and Interplane struts and fittings;

Pic. 1 – Cabane struts. A one piece unit. The round dot below the forward strut is a retractable foot peg for fueling.
Pic. 2 – Interplane struts, 3 pieces.
Pic. 3 – Top Forward fitting
Pic. 4 – Lower Forward fitting
Pic. 5 – Lower Rear fitting with aileron connection rod, note round shape.
Pic. 6 – Lower Forward fitting looking aft, typical of all other fittings.
Pic. 7 – Upper Rear fitting on QCF-2, NC 12428 (wing is upside down).
Pic. 8 – Lower Rear strut over fitting on UBF-2, NC 2091K (fitting is the similar to the QCF) note cleaner appearance than on the YMF.

The YMF fittings have the bolt going front to rear with the strut end between the fitting parts. The UBF and QCF have the strut end over the fitting with the bolts going side to side. The strut end (one end only, pic. 4) is adjustable on the forward and rear struts, not adjustable on the center strut on all the aircraft pictured.
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Old 06-27-2007, 10:04 AM
  #2938
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Default RE: WACO YMF

John,

Yep, that's the look that I'm going for. It is actually going to be about as easy as the original kit form.

Bill, AMA 4720
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Old 06-27-2007, 01:25 PM
  #2939
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Bill and the rest,

Pica apparently got it wrong with the landing gear. The plans show the inner landing gear strut going from the center of the fuselage down to the axle, not so. The inner strut actually attaches above the axel to the upper section of the oleo as shown in the below pictures. The first is the Pica Subject plane NC 14031 in a photo from the Andy Heins collection on the National Waco Club site. The second is from a YMF Classic, N# unknown and the last 2 are from YMF Classic, NC 14081, belonging to Robin Williams of Michigan, who attended the AWC Fly In 2 weeks ago. The drawings by Paul Matt for the Historic Aviation Album have the landing gear drawn correctly. If some one has a picture of different gear on a YMF, I would be interested in seeing it. The gear on the newer Waco Supers is shorter but of similar design.
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Old 06-27-2007, 04:00 PM
  #2940
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Default RE: WACO YMF


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Stickbuilder


Quote:
ORIGINAL: khodges

The guy in front of the red UPF-7 is Joe Norris, the pilot who took John and I for our rides. Helluva nice guy, and we gave him one of my Brotherhood T-shirts and made him an honorary Brother. He needs a number, Master Chief. John is in the front seat in one pic, getting ready for his flight.

Ken,

If you will take a look back at page #110, you will find that Joe has been awarded Brotherhood number 54. I only hope that he takes a look at this thread, and finds himself among those who truly love the old Ragbags. You are one fortunate man there Ken....It's becoming more and more difficult to find nice things to say about you. Do I sound jealous????? I am.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1
Hello Bill and Ken,

I have indeed found this thread and I really appreciate the kind words. I certainly enjoyed meeting Ken and John and Creve Coeur, and enjoyed having them along in the Waco. I feel honored to be a member of the Waco Brotherhood, and I'll wear my T-shirt proudly!

I am looking forward to following the thread and keeping up with what you folks are doing with your Waco models. From what I've seen so far, these are some impressive airplanes! If you ever have any questions about the "full scale" versions, I'd be happy to try to help.

Already looking forward to Creve Coeur next year!

Joe Norris
Waco UPF-7 NC39748
WB #54
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Old 06-27-2007, 05:38 PM
  #2941
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Joe,

Welcome aboard and thanks for the flight. I think you will find there is an interest in all thing Waco, not just the YMF. For those who don't know Joe, he was kind enough to give Ken and I a ride in his UPF-7. He also has a little blog going at http://www.classicwaco.com/blog/ about his Waco. Enjoyed meeting you Joe and hope to see you again next year at Creve Coeur.
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Old 06-27-2007, 06:38 PM
  #2942
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: WacoJoe

I am looking forward to following the thread and keeping up with what you folks are doing with your Waco models. From what I've seen so far, these are some impressive airplanes! If you ever have any questions about the "full scale" versions, I'd be happy to try to help.

Joe Norris
Waco UPF-7 NC39748
WB #54
Joe! Good to hear from you, glad you found the forum. I intend to keep up with your blog, also, and will be posting my build of the UPF-7 here. It was interesting reading about your oil leak; when I first started riding motorcycles back in the 70's, I had a Triumph, known for not holding their oil very well. The old "repair" you found sounds like something I've done to the rocker boxes of my old Daytona many times to slow the flow. Much as my old Trumpet must have thought different, the inside benefitted from the lubrication much more than the outside did. I think the gasket surfaces on the Conti are probably truer and more oil tight than the ones from Coventry.
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Old 06-27-2007, 07:53 PM
  #2943
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Jay
Gottem T's and you can start a slush with the shipping and handling on its way
Thanks for your well what can a man say but great job and a big THANKS
Larry Kutchar
The Out Law
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Old 06-27-2007, 09:24 PM
  #2944
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RC OUTLAW- No need to send more money. Everything worked out fine despite the USPS changes.

Thanks again for all the support and comments on the Tees.
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Old 06-27-2007, 09:39 PM
  #2945
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All this talk about the tee's, can't wait for mine to arrive [8D]
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Old 06-27-2007, 10:05 PM
  #2946
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I will bet your Tees are not far behind
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Old 06-27-2007, 10:09 PM
  #2947
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Default RE: WACO YMF

I think the aluminum gear KHODGES and I are doing for his COX arf will lend itself to the correct appearance rather well. Among the many other things I have unfinished is a mod to the PICA based build that will allow aluminum gear to be attached while retaining the stringers and F-6(?) former. I will definitely share the mod with you guys as it is mocked up and hopefully implemented into my project. I fly my stuff a good bit and the permanent nature of the stock PICA set-up makes me a little nervous.
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Old 06-27-2007, 10:10 PM
  #2948
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Are you the guy that roles these for CO'2 Guns at drag racing events Those things fly a long ways
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Old 06-27-2007, 10:15 PM
  #2949
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: damifino

I fly my stuff a good bit and the permanent nature of the stock PICA set-up makes me a little nervous.
Since when do Racecar Engineers get nervous??? Ain't like you're strapped into a noisy (very fast.. and low) MH-47 'Hook in the middle of the night... in rural Tennessee...

Todd
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Old 06-27-2007, 10:19 PM
  #2950
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: Nightstalker


Quote:
ORIGINAL: damifino

I fly my stuff a good bit and the permanent nature of the stock PICA set-up makes me a little nervous.
Since when do Racecar Engineers get nervous??? Ain't like you're strapped into a noisy (very fast.. and low) MH-47 'Hook in the middle of the night... in rural Tennessee...

Todd
WACO Brotherhood #47
For God's sake, is that night in Tennessee the ONLY exciting thing you did as a Dog???????
I can tell you one thing that does not make me nervous..take some cheese and a jar of.....Oh never mind.
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