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WACO YMF

Old 07-19-2007, 12:38 PM
  #3151
nine o nine
 
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Bill, That's exactly why some of the full scale Wacos have fin offset but not all. Different powerplants....some with "gilhooley" engine offset even. I never heard that word before but I know exactly what it means. And good on you for using proper rudder control when it's necessary....It's the hardest control to teach a fixed wing pilot. Fling wing guys HAVE to use their feet (or left hand). Mitch WB#100
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Old 07-19-2007, 12:42 PM
  #3152
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Default RE: WACO YMF

The trouble with engine offsets is that they only balance the engine torque at one set RPM. This is fine for a F/F model where the engine is always set at that RPM before the model is launched, and the operator can't affect it after that. Unfortunately, we boys have that little plastic box with an aerial and twitchy thumbs on little sticky out sticky things and that engine RPM is all over the place. I hear that the latest wheeze for those with confusers in their boxes is to arrange automatic trim compensation with power setting changes, ie Rudder to Throttle mix. It's all getting too much....
Evan, W.B. #12.
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Old 07-19-2007, 02:03 PM
  #3153
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Quote:
ORIGINAL: nine o nine

Bill, That's exactly why some of the full scale Wacos have fin offset but not all. Different powerplants....
Of all the different types I saw at CCA, only four of the UPF-7's had any tail offset, and they had the same Continental engine as the UPF's without tail offset. I can't speak for whether or not any of them had any offset thrust "engineered" into the engine mounts. If so, it was minimal, as cowl alignment with the engine cylinders would have been noticeable.

There was one plane there that had a "boost tab" if what I think skylarkmkI is talking about is correct. There was a VKS-7 cabin model that had the tab connected to a rod that extended to the empennage; when the rudder was deflected, the linkage on the tab caused it to deflect the opposite direction an equal amount. The effect would be to lessen pedal pressure from airstream resistance.

My UMF might be easier to take off if I had some right thrust to minimize torque reaction and P factor on takeoff, but I elected to take out the built in right thrust and learn to use the rudder. It's been a steep curve[&o], but after working out the tailwheel adjustment, I've had better takeoffs, and the inflight performance hasn't seemed to suffer from no right thrust, this with a gas engine with greater torque available.
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Old 07-19-2007, 04:08 PM
  #3154
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Default RE: WACO YMF


Quote:
ORIGINAL: pimmnz

I hear that the latest wheeze for those with confusers in their boxes is to arrange automatic trim compensation with power setting changes, ie Rudder to Throttle mix. It's all getting too much....
Evan, W.B. #12.
Next thing you know, you'll see a built in program where the guys push a button on the RTF model, and the engine will start, the model will accelerate, take off, fly the full aresti pattern, land and shut down. Bah!!! That ain't flying!!!!![:'(]

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1
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Old 07-19-2007, 04:44 PM
  #3155
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Ken,

What you show on the VKS is what I was talking about. The YMF, YKSs, VKSand UKC all have rudder/vertical fins very similar to the YMF, but why the VKS has the boost tab in unknown.

With three different cowls on the various UPFs, it would be hard to detect any offset (right thrust) "engineered in" to the mounts. The ring cowls are mounted to the engine cylinder heads and would remain aligned with the engine. I believe the bump and smooth cowls are mounted the same but will check on that next time I am at CCA. On the bump/smooth cowls I think any offset for thrust would be noticed in the clearence between the rear of the cowl and the front fuselage sub cowl.
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Old 07-19-2007, 04:59 PM
  #3156
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Default RE: WACO YMF

We interupt this program to bring you this important public service announcement:

To those scratch building the 1/5 WACO from PICA/AMA plans: Trial fit your cabane assemblies into their notches early in your fuselage build up. I had failed to do so and it took a little time and kicking myself in the a*s to get them in there. The cabane notches in the formers were a little this way and that. They fit now but with a little gap here and there to the formers. Epoxy and microfibers will take care of the gaps though. Just a little heads up for ya.

We now return to our regularly scheduled programming......
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Old 07-19-2007, 05:09 PM
  #3157
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: Stickbuilder

Next thing you know, you'll see a built in program where the guys push a button on the RTF model, and the engine will start, the model will accelerate, take off, fly the full aresti pattern, land and shut down. Bah!!! That ain't flying!!!!![:'(]
Sounds like the Airbus RTF model
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Old 07-19-2007, 07:30 PM
  #3158
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Hi All,

I would like to point out an issue with using trim tabs on models. As stated earlier you would be loading the servo with the aerodynamic forces produced by the tab. Also I would like to point out that these tabs work in the reverse direction that one would assume. For example if an aircraft is yawing left and requires right rudder input, the tab must be moved LEFT. The tab hanging in the slip stream will produce force on the rudder moving it to the Right. This works on full scale aircraft becuase control surfaces find there own natural center, the pilot just takes it from there.

But it's all pointless for models - just use servo trim, i just thought this was an interesting discussion.
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Old 07-19-2007, 09:51 PM
  #3159
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More progress on the replacement gear for my UMF. Everything's done except fo paint. I fine sanded to 400 grit and then put a layer of 0.75 oz fiberglass over all the wood parts, and then another coat of finishing resin, which was sanded with 400 grit again. The original gear on the ARF, and maybe the Pica kit as well, has a trailing edge of the fairing that ends forward of the leading edge of the lower wing; the full scale's gear fairing extends under the wing for a short way. I added a wood strip behind the metal leg to extend the trailing edge to the leading edge of the wing, it looks much better, IMO.

1st pic is the original gear, 2nd is the new gear with the trim strip (also has one on the leading edge), 3rd, 4th, & 5th are the new gear in place. 7th is the full scale

#6--this plane looks good as a low-wing monoplane, sort of like a GB-Y.
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Old 07-19-2007, 10:03 PM
  #3160
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Nice job on that gear.
As we say around this here parts in Tex Mex Spanglish.
Betty good man, Betty good.

Angel
B 58
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Old 07-19-2007, 10:25 PM
  #3161
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Brothers, there in a radial engine on Ebay worth drooling over. But I.m afraid the engine collectors will sent this one sky high without a plane. It's a Morton 5 cylinder of the vintage of our Wacos. Item #170131921741 Jim #9
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Old 07-19-2007, 10:42 PM
  #3162
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Ken,

Are you going to add the Inner Wheel Pant Fairing? The photos are from the YMF, NC 14081, at the Fly In. The drawing is from the drawing of the Pica Subject, NC 14031 by Paul Matt for the Historical Aircraft Album.
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Old 07-19-2007, 11:13 PM
  #3163
Ken Kehlet
 
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Hi Everyone,

The PICA WACO is now being reproduced as an ARF, Both sizes are being distributed by of all people "COX"

The 72" wing model was released in February 2007, I Have One.
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Old 07-19-2007, 11:52 PM
  #3164
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Ken K.,

The pictures of the Red and Cream Waco in the above pictures by khodges is a COX 1/5th Waco. Ken H totally stripped the original covering, added a lot of scale details and recovered it. He had a bit of trouble with the original landing gear and hence the new sheet metal gear. It looks good and you can't call it an ARF anymore.

Take a browse through the thread and see what the guys have been doing making their own Wacos and modifying the Cox planes. The discussion does get off a little subject briefly a few times, but quickly gets back on track. There is a lot of good and interesting information scatted through out.
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Old 07-20-2007, 07:10 AM
  #3165
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Quote:
ORIGINAL: skylarkmk1

Ken,

Are you going to add the Inner Wheel Pant Fairing?
I suppose I ought to try; if I do, I'll need to space the pants out a bit, maybe three washers worth.I've thought a lot about how to do it and get the curvature right, but haven't come up with any good way except to mold clay around the area, lay fiberglass over it, and then remove the clay. It's always something I can do later; as the saying goes, you never finish a scale model, you just stop working on it. I'm about tired of working on this one, I want to fly it some.

BTW, I spoke again Monday with Aaron at Ikon, he assured me the UPF kit would be here either today or tomorrow. We'll see. he's pleasant to talk to, but he sounds like a guy with a lot on his plate. He promised it in three weeks, it's been over four, and it's taken me two long distance calls to keep it moving; he has almost $300 of mine and I don't yet have anything to show for it. I don't want to seem impatient, but a deal's a deal.
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Old 07-20-2007, 08:25 AM
  #3166
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Ken, If you want to attempt the wheel pants fairings try modeling them out of Dow Blue foam, the house insulation foam board. It sands beautifully and is perfect for the lost foam method of 'glass lay up. I use automotive bondo to glue multiple layers together for thicker parts because the bondo sands easily. Around here all we can get at the home centers is 3/4" thick, but our Brothers up north can find it easily in up to 2" thicknesses. The other brand is pink and works equally well.
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Old 07-20-2007, 08:37 AM
  #3167
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Default RE: WACO YMF


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Ken Kehlet

Hi Everyone,

The PICA WACO is now being reproduced as an ARF, Both sizes are being distributed by of all people "COX"

The 72" wing model was released in February 2007, I Have One.
So do I. Have you been able to get the wheel pants to stay on it?
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Old 07-20-2007, 08:51 AM
  #3168
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Default RE: WACO YMF

What I did for Bob Gonzalez's Plane is we got the Peter Barth fairings from Proctor and modified them. As you can see they are two small for the 33 and I in-larged them. Also if one takes great care in fitting them to the landing strut it will help hold the wheel pants in place. Of course one needs to make them strong enough. They would be close for your Size. Lots of fun at the WACO Play house in Bethesda MD
TR
WACO BROTHERHOOD # 69
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Old 07-20-2007, 10:35 AM
  #3169
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: Ken Kehlet

Hi Everyone,

The PICA WACO is now being reproduced as an ARF, Both sizes are being distributed by of all people "COX"

The 72" wing model was released in February 2007, I Have One.
Have you flown it yet? What are you using for power? The Brothers are pretty much covering the spectrum, from big single 4-strokes to big twin 4-strokes to bigger 3-cylinder radials, and even several gasoline engines, like mine. examine several things closely; the landing gear has the potential to break about an inch above where the axle is, and there are NO replacement parts, unless Cox has decided to part-out some of their ARF kits. I gave up and designed my own replacement and damifino was kind enough to provide the materials and labor (I'll be paying on it for a looong time) to make it for me. Another thing that will probably go Tango Uniform are the wheel pant collars/brackets, as mobyal said. See the last four or five pages for my fix. As skylarkmkI said, mine is the ARF, as are several others here, but most are scratch or kit building the original Pica kit that the ARF is designed from.

Wanna be a Brother? Don't cost nuthin', all ya gotta do is like WACO's. The Master Chief, originator of this thread, will assign you a number. Here' another view of mine; G-26 gas engine, Koverall fabric, and lots of reverse engineering.
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Old 07-20-2007, 08:28 PM
  #3170
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Speaking of landing gear, I made most of the mod to my 1/5 PICA/WB/AMA WACO main gear mounting area tonight. The main gear I made for Khodges works so good I'm gonna put one on mine. Biggest difference will be that mine will be a 2 piece gear consisting of right and left legs. The 2 piece arrangement allows me to keep all the formers and sheeting as called out in the plans. The gear will be bolted into place before covering much like the stock wire gear is glued in as called for in the plans. If things ever get damaged too much the covering will have to be removed anyway. My Bruce Tharpe Venture 60 sport plane came with a split gear and it holds up just fine. I'll post some pictures of the mod soon.

Yours is looking fine, Ken.

Hughes500E- How'd your scale qualifier go??
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Old 07-21-2007, 07:10 AM
  #3171
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Check out this thread for some awesome detail work and construction of a WWI aircraft in 1/6 scale. The fellow posts great pictures.

[link]http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_5029692/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm[/link]
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Old 07-21-2007, 01:20 PM
  #3172
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That SE-5a cockpit looks like you could climb in and fly off. I've been to that thread before.

Well......... it's done.....Again[sm=what_smile.gif] Looks much better than the original gear, the trailing edge of the fairing is tapered instead of rounded, it fits against the leading edge of the bottom wing, if not completely under it (still have to be able to take the wing off). The wheel base is an 1-1/8 inches wider than before, maybe it'll be more stable on takeoff and landing. I'll post some pics later, gonna go to the field this evening, if winds are light I'll fly it. The gear came out about 4-1/2 ounces more than the original, but since it sits fairly close to the C/G, it didn't cahnge the balance; if at all, it's a tad nose heavier than before, but not noticeable when it's held at the balance point. We'll see if the trim changes.

I had problems with getting the smoke system to work when I last flew it. Ground check and setup went fine, but for some reason the pump didn't come on during preflight. A cursory inspection while working on the gear didn't find any loose or disconnected wiring, and the battery has plenty of juice. For now, I say screw it, I just want to fly the thing and get used to it. I had six flights when the main gear broke, just starting to get the "feel", now it's going to be like the maiden flight all over again. If everyone feels a sudden shift in wind direction and velocity, it's just me puckering, don't worry
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Old 07-21-2007, 03:44 PM
  #3173
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Hey Ken,

We made the American Waco Clubs "Waco World News", July/August edition as new members. Ours mugs are on page 16 of the Waco-People-Places-Plans section. There is also a nice shot (B&W) of the DH-4 (air to air) and another of 4 Wacos in formation on the way to Saturdays breakfast. Brings back some wish it was longer memories.

Good luck with your second "maiden" flight on the UMF.

That SE-5 is a work of art, he really needs to do a larger version as this one is only 1/6th scale (53" ws). Something to strive for guys.
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Old 07-21-2007, 07:53 PM
  #3174
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Can't wait to see that issue, haven't got it yet. I got a packet a couple weeks ago with July/Aug '06 through May/June '07, and haven't got through them yet.

I made it to the field, but the wind was doing weird things; the wind sock was hanging, but when I flew my L-4, it was getting bounced around at 100 feet up, and was too much like work to fly it, so I put off any attempt on the WACO until tomorrow. I did make some pics on the runway, see below.

I have FunAero's 1/5 (or so) SE-5a kit, 60 inch wingspan and will build it some day, plan on a .91 Saito. I want to detail it but doubt I'll go to the same pains he did in the cockpit.

Wonder where the new "Ken" went (Kehlet?) I feel like a hit and run. "Where'd he go? Where'd whoooo go?" (remember Top Gun[movie]).
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Old 07-21-2007, 09:30 PM
  #3175
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: damifino

Check out this thread for some awesome detail work and construction of a WWI aircraft in 1/6 scale. The fellow posts great pictures.

[link]http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_5029692/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm[/link]
. . . as long as we're a little off topic. Did you notice that the SE-5 is CONTROL LINE!?! Amazing.
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