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WACO YMF

Old 08-22-2007, 04:56 AM
  #3351
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: Jim Henley

John,
Yeah, Yeah, keep pushing that AT-6 Spinner ! What that thing cost you would have thought it was the real thing
The cost of most everything to build a good size model is probably more than it originally cost to built the full scale component back in 1934. Heck, my first new car cost less than $2500.00 which is less than what a clunker will cost you today.

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Old 08-22-2007, 01:52 PM
  #3352
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Default RE: WACO YMF


Quote:
ORIGINAL: skylarkmk1

The biggest difference I have noted is in the lock area, most had a "Platt" style lock (P-4, looks like a briefcase combination lock). The hatch cover was either even with the "tongueā€¯, notched to fit around it or pierced for the tongue to pass through (P-4). The YMF Classic (NC 14081) that attended the Fly In had the notched variety.
The "briefcase combination lock" baggage door latch shown in picture #4 is my UPF-7s baggage door. This is the standard type latch for the baggage door on UPF-7s, and the same type was also used on the Stearman trainers (PT-13, PT-17, etc.) I always thought it looked like a luggage lock too, but it's sort of neat and very "period" if you know what I mean.

Cheers!

Joe
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Old 08-22-2007, 02:37 PM
  #3353
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Joe,

When I first saw the "Platt" style lock, it looked too "modern". I asked Terry, (the Waco Restorer) if it was a modification and was told that it was an original part. A slight variation was used on the 1940 UPF-7 (NC 173E) based a CCA (p1), but either style lock was a big improvement over what was used on the 1929 JWM (NX 8550) with the "Woven Wire" type closure, where a brass wire is zig-zagged around hooks (like on a work boot) attached to both the hatch cover and the fuselage. (p2)

On the PT-17 (NC 48784) based here, it has the same lock with thumb screw Duetz type fasteners at the lower corners for extra security in flight (p-3)
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Old 08-22-2007, 04:40 PM
  #3354
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Default RE: WACO YMF


Quote:
ORIGINAL: skylarkmk1

On the PT-17 (NC 48784) based here, it has the same lock with thumb screw Duetz type fasteners at the lower corners for extra security in flight (p-3)
Hi skylark,

I'm just back from holiday and can again look over the shoulders of the Brotherhood. I have really missed my daily share of Waco, thanks for your wonderful pictures and equally thanks to all the other brothers who make this thread worthwhile.

As a matter of interest the fasteners are called "DZUS" fasteners, I used them in my first job with British European Airways at the then London Airport "Northholt" the airline departure etc buildings were tents.



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Old 08-22-2007, 05:57 PM
  #3355
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Welcome back John L.,

Hope your holiday was good. You are correct on the spelling of Dzus (glad you were able to figure out what I was saying). I just looked up Dzus and there appear to be many, many type of Dzus fasteners - quarter turn, push lock on-turn release, screw lead and others. One of the mdoel airplane manufacturers use to market or carry a small version (1/4" dia.?) for models, but all of my stuff was too small to find a use for them back then. Maybe with the 1/5th Waco (and larger) they can be used for a scale hatch fastener.

How close are you to the Shuttlworth Collection? As you may know, a fellow Brit, Desmond Penrose came over to the US and was able to fly the only airworthy DH-4 here at Creve Coeur Aiport and became the second highest flight time pilot (living) of the DH-4 during the Waco Fly In. His father helped Mrs Shuttlworth gather the collection and Desmond was on of the demo pilots until he retired a few years ago.
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Old 08-22-2007, 06:06 PM
  #3356
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Default RE: WACO YMF

John, and John,

Is it not true that most of the fastners on the WACO's are common screws (slotted head) vs the more modern Dzus buttons?

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Old 08-22-2007, 07:33 PM
  #3357
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Does anyone know where I can download a picture of an instument panel so I can size and print it to mount on my new SIG WACO SRE? Or can someone offer me a better way to do this? thanks
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Old 08-22-2007, 07:47 PM
  #3358
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: Waco Kid

Does anyone know where I can download a picture of an instument panel so I can size and print it to mount on my new SIG WACO SRE? Or can someone offer me a better way to do this? thanks
Go to the website for Classic Aircraft. They have some nice I/P shots of the WACO Classic, of course they won't be period correct for the SRE, or even the old YMF/UMF variants. They have a modern panel. You can get a set of dials and lens from J-Tec, and use them. The Panel uses a raised center oval that is reminicent of the Auburn dash (found in the famous Auburn Speedster automobiles) and install the guages there. I can give you the layout if you wish. The guages are all the same size on the YMF. At the Bottom right side of the panel are the parking brake, and the switches for the lights, and the circuit breakers. To the left side is the priming pump for the fuel, and on the left side of the fuse is the throttle/mixture and carb heat controls. John probably has some accurate photos of the I/P, and I'll bet he will be happy to post them for you.

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Old 08-22-2007, 08:08 PM
  #3359
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Bill,

On the YMF Classic most of the panels are held on with screws. The panel in the middle of picture #1 on YMF (NC 14081) is held closed by Dzus fasteners as is the the Oil Cap cover (top, above the panel) with a thumb screw Dzus fastener. In picture #2 of UBF-2 (NC 2091K) the front panels are held on by Dzus fasteners (indicated by red lines).
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Old 08-22-2007, 08:15 PM
  #3360
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Bill, Waco Kid,

I only have one shot of the I/P of the SRE (NC 58785) from the Fly In. Ken may have some more, he was taking more interior shots than I was. Waco Kid, send me a PM with your e-mail addy and I can send the jpg file (about 2.24 meg) so you can get a clearer shot.

Whoops, my mistake, the photo below is NOT a SRE instrument panel, it may be from a Stinson and I had it mixed in with the SRE.

Use the photos that khodges posted a entries further down.
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Old 08-22-2007, 08:17 PM
  #3361
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Thanks John, I'm trying to not use any phillips type of screws on this one. The difference between the Dzus fastner and the common slotted head screw should be difficult to discern at this scale. The Dzus fastner (screw head half turn) would have a couple of small fastners adjacent the fastner head to replicate the spring mounts. Maybe a couple of straight pin heads to replicate the smaller fastners. What do you think?

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Old 08-22-2007, 08:19 PM
  #3362
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Default RE: WACO YMF

John,

Looks just as a Double Deperdussin setup should.

Is that the right terminology for that wheel setup?

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Old 08-22-2007, 08:37 PM
  #3363
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Bill,

I don't know what the terminology is, but it works the basically the same way as the Cessna 150 (N 6253G) I used to fly many years ago. Push the wheel in and down you go, pull out and you go up, turn the wheel and roll left or right. Notice the 3 rollers to guide the column in and out.

The screws on the YMF Classic (NC 14081) happen to be Phillips Head as are the Dzus fasteners on the access panel. I don't know what style they used on the early YMFs.
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Old 08-22-2007, 10:41 PM
  #3364
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SuperCub Man & All

Sorry I haven't been posting much in the last month or so I get side tracked and haven't been building much but I'm getting back on track now.

Jim, I cut a pattern out of wood on my table saw and pounded each corrugation one at a time It's time consuming but I think It will look good when finished. I used yellow glue and it held good I couldn't pull it apart when it dried. I'll tack a pic of the pattern tomoral and post it so you can see. I also have one I made that's to short if you'd like to see first hand I will send it to you.
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Old 08-22-2007, 10:51 PM
  #3365
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Waco Kid Bill, John-- I looked through my close-ups and I saw mostly slotted screws on all the metal panels and windshield frames of the various types at CCA. Dzus fasteners on some of the frequently removed panels, but they were straight slots also, just marginally larger heads.

As for interior of an SRE, here's what I have; John, I think your picture is a different plane. I also have that panel from a different angle. I don't remember what plane it is, but my in my shot it is towards the back of one of the HARM hangars. If you look at the windshield, it also has a couple more panels than the SRE windshield. Also note the yokes slide in and out of the panel, rather than being part of a "Y" setup like the other cabin Wacos. The interior shots I took of the SRE were made at the Belleville Airpark.
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Old 08-22-2007, 11:37 PM
  #3366
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Waco Kid, Bill, Ken,

Looks like Ken is correct, I made a mistake on the SRE instrument panel. After looking at the pictures Ken posted, I double checked mine and it is from another plane towards the back of the hanger (see the hanger roof), sorry. Kens pictures are correct for the SRE as it was parked just inside the hanger door (see the cars outside).

Ken is correct, most of the screws on the various Wacos at CCA are slotted as well as the Dzus fasteners (p1). The picture is a close up of the type used on the UBF-2 (NC 2091K). The 1987 YMF (NC 14081) is made by Waco Classic Aircraft up in Michigan and may be their method of construction.

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Old 08-23-2007, 08:34 AM
  #3367
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Skylark,

Yes great holiday, spent all the time in heavy but warm rain, I was on Windemere lake a good part of the time with the Steam Boat Association of Great Britain. I have a twin cylinder compound launch engine built by my aeromodeller uncle about 80 years ago. My cousin gave it to me recently and I wanted to see the size of vessel it might drive, maybe a radio model. In the event it is big enough for an 18' - 20' launch on inland waters. I also sent time on a 7" railway layout covering some 20 acres. Many of the boats were home built using 3/8" by 1/2" planks (small tongue and groove to aid assembly) glued with epoxy and subsequently covered inside with one layer of glass & epoxy and the outer layer with two layers of glass & epoxy painted. The black lines between the deck planks on vessel were achieved by using a mix of epoxy and lamp black. Not one of the most sucessful techniques due to the difficulty of handling the mix. The whole process was very familiar except for the scale. Where the glass covered the inside of the planking it was invisible to my eyes and just looked superb with a coat of varnish. I Met some great people and even one to discuss model aircraft with.

Bill,

About the Dzus fasteners, it was in 1951 when I used them. I know they were on the Vickers Viking then and maybe the DC3 as well. Time heals they say but access to memory also heals over, given time.



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Old 08-23-2007, 09:02 AM
  #3368
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More SRE interior photos would be great to see.
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Old 08-23-2007, 09:24 AM
  #3369
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Here are 2 pics that I found on the web. Credit to their authors. This stuff is hard to find. A peak in the door of NC58785. The I/P of NC1252W. This is all I have on this that you fellows haven't provided me with.
John
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Old 08-23-2007, 09:34 AM
  #3370
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Joe A,

You and Ken are both correct, it is not the SRE I/p. I agree it may be the Stinson (or maybe a Fairchild) as both pictures are from the same plane, right down to the tape on the lower switch panel and wire hanging out, but have not been able to find my Stinson pictures. If I have some, they are in a general Hanger folder and not a specific folder just for the Stinson. I'll probably check it this weekend, as I will be out there Sunday. The picture I posted was in the SRE folder and was only 2 numbers out of the SRE picture sequence. For SRE reference, use the photos Ken posted.
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Old 08-23-2007, 09:38 AM
  #3371
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Guys,

I was able to post photos this morning and have added the picture to post #3336 about screw heads.
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Old 08-23-2007, 09:44 AM
  #3372
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Hi Dan - Thanks for that. I'm surprised that yellow glue was so effective. I will try it with Titebond ll. I copied your method from your original post and made the jig from hardwood as in pix #1. I used auto body repair aluminum available in rolls from our local auto store (Cdn. Tire Corp.) It is only .015 and very light. I glued a 1/16" piano wire to a hardwood block with CA and hammered away. You'll notice I got 34 corrugations as per the full scale aileron to fit in the 13-3/4" model aileron space. (Very proud of myself!) However the wooden block split after making one piece as it couldn't take the pounding. The wood overlapping the wire flattened out the aluminum between corrugations and made a nice looking piece. (Pix #2) Since I have to make 24 of them, (3 aircraft) I shall get a piece of steel and silver solder the wire to it. I have trouble with the piece curving if I don't carefully line up the wire with the jig, when hammering, but slow wins the race here and proper clamping is also essential.
So I won't need your sample - but thanks - and I appreciate your help. One other thing - what are you using for rivets? or are you?? I thought pin heads might work but as yet I haven't found any small enough - and what a pain mounting them!!
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Old 08-23-2007, 10:27 AM
  #3373
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1/5 Scale Waco YMF Bi-plane kit, unopened box
Item number: 150152251816


Hi there Borthers,

The above is an eBay item, a Pica kit in case anyone is interested.


By the way skylark, yes I have visited Old Warden on a number of occasions, a long way with Brit traffic but worth it. Many years ago I attended a Model Flight Day (Free Flight) when spectators and fliers alike congregated on the runway area and proceeded to fly. Spectators and models intersected sometimes luckily without injury. It's not like that any more.



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Old 08-23-2007, 10:28 AM
  #3374
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Default RE: WACO YMF

SuperCub Man,

Looking good, the corrugations are just about perfect. Let us know what a panel weighs if possible.

Glue (yellow, RC-56 or similar) may be your best bet for the rivets. The full size rivets are small, domed on top or outside, flat on the bottom or inside. The photos below may help (from a YKS).
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Old 08-23-2007, 11:00 AM
  #3375
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SuperCub Man

Looks like you have the plan. It was suggested to me to have a set of steal patterns made from a machine shop and pass them around to any one to use. I looked in to having a set of templates made but had no luck. If any one knows of a machine shop that can cut a set of templates out of steal I would chip in on the cost to have them made If enough people chip in it may no cost that much???
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