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WACO YMF

Old 08-25-2007, 01:32 PM
  #3401
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Default RE: WACO YMF

a simple way for cutting pinked tape from koverall or polyester dress lining is to put the fabric on a piece of flat and clean glass,dope it and when dry remove and cut with pinking scissor


WALDO

WACO BROTHERHOOD #22
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Old 08-25-2007, 07:27 PM
  #3402
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: Stickbuilder

Super Cub Man,

I hate to say this, but I think that the formers F-5T and F-6T are mis labeled. Please check the height on the forward top formers prior to installing them. They go from back to front with the taller of them being at the Instrument panel. I found this when building the fuse for the one that I have on the board.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1
I measured them and they seem to be OK with the F-6T being just a smidgen (tech talk!) taller. But I will check alignment closely on installation.
Refering back to the aluminum corrugated ailerons, should the top of the corrugation be flush with the wing trailing edge or should the valley. I'm considering covering the ailerons with 1/16 sheet as an surface to adhere to and using a new 3M Super contact cement for the glue. It was mentioned to me by Jerry Nelson when I was ordering the hinges for the compartments on the fuse. He says it's available at Home Depot and that the local airline maintenance crews in Texas use it regularly for applicable repairs!! The thickness of the aileron formers will have to be resized to attain the correct thickness at the aileron leading edge.
Thanks
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Old 08-25-2007, 08:39 PM
  #3403
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SCM

The trailing edges of the skins on the full scale are actually 3 layers, top skin, joiner, bottom skin (p1). Top view at tip (p2), top view at root (p3). End view at root (p4). Any questions or another view, just ask.
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Old 08-25-2007, 08:43 PM
  #3404
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Supercubman

I would love to know who works for "the local airline" in Texas that told you to use 3m super contact cement from home depot , Since I am MX Qc for one of the 3 airlines based in Texas. I hope it's not for the same airline I work for.
You may want to pm me.

Angel
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Old 08-26-2007, 09:23 AM
  #3405
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Guys, sorry to have been absent yesterday (and for the last few evenings). The new puter has some issues. The new system is superfast, but the hard drive crashed on the evening of the first day of in service. The puter company replaced the hard drive under warranty (you'd hope so) and they had to retrieve all the programs from their server (including pics from Baby Daughter's wedding), so I didn't get it back until Friday PM. Saturday morning, the ISP went down, so here it is Sunday morning, and everything seems to be on go.

I spent last evening completing the narrowing of the wheel pants from Fiberglass Specialists, and they are going to be great. I did have to use some yellow putty to fill the pin holes. The normal voids in the material that you get from this company were eliminated by removing the factory seam which happened during the narrowing process. The shape is much closer to scale (theirs is very pudgy) and the space around the tires is much closer now (before there was at least 1/4" space on each side of the tire). I'll get them in primer today, and finish sanding them. I think that I will finish paint them to set the colors for the plane, and make the decision for the trim design. I'm trying to decide whether to go with a light cream for the base color, or to go with bright white. Any ideas or reccomendations from you guys on this? The trim color is still up in the air, but I'm leaning toward a dark Navy, or a medium green. I would have used red, but khodges already has done this one. The access panels for the aft fuse bottom worked out really well, and I now have access to the variable incidence tail mechanics, as well as for the scale tailwheel gear. It's slow, but it's coming together.

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Old 08-26-2007, 09:44 AM
  #3406
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: Stickbuilder

I'm trying to decide whether to go with a light cream for the base color, or to go with bright white. Any ideas or reccomendations from you guys on this? The trim color is still up in the air, but I'm leaning toward a dark Navy, or a medium green. I would have used red, but khodges already has done this one. The access panels for the aft fuse bottom worked out really well, and I now have access to the variable incidence tail mechanics, as well as for the scale tailwheel gear. It's slow, but it's coming together.
Bill, I used the cream color primarily because it would hide everyday grime better than white, but it really gives a great contrast to the darker trim. I don't know how well the specific shade I used (Krylon 'Buttercream') would match to a dark blue, but I think a Navy blue with a light contrast color would be awesome. Something in a very pale blue and dark blue I think would look good, maybe with a thin gold pinstripe on the borders. The original Waco I used for my scheme I found out was blue and white, with the gold pinstripe between them. As far as green goes, the UBA that John and I saw at CCA was gorgeous. It was a dark green fuse with a medium green panel down the middle a medium green rudder with scalloped edge, and silver wings. The ring cowl was chrome, but I think would look good in the same colors as the fuse.

There was also a green/cream UPF-7 that looked great. Pics of both:
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Old 08-26-2007, 12:42 PM
  #3407
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Right colors, wrong pattern.....I'm thinking about a scollopped trim scheme, somewhat as you did yours, but just a little different. I have been looking at some of the pictures that can be found, and although I hate to do something that is not true to scale, I just may have to to that on this one. I wish that I had a picture of the one that my Grandfather owned. I would do that one, but as far as I know, no photo exists of that one. After he passed on, the airplanes were sold, and went to different parts of the country. The Monocoupe went to Ohio, and I have since met the (now) owner of that one. I'm the oldest living person in that family, so there is no one else to ask. I think that the WACO went west, but I have not a clue as to where. The Cub is still in Tennessee, and is now on floats. Two out of three ain't bad.

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Old 08-26-2007, 01:18 PM
  #3408
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: Stickbuilder

Right colors, wrong pattern.....I'm thinking about a scollopped trim scheme, somewhat as you did yours, but just a little different. I have been looking at some of the pictures that can be found, and although I hate to do something that is not true to scale, I just may have to to that on this one. I wish that I had a picture of the one that my Grandfather owned. I would do that one, but as far as I know, no photo exists of that one. After he passed on, the airplanes were sold, and went to different parts of the country. The Monocoupe went to Ohio, and I have since met the (now) owner of that one. I'm the oldest living person in that family, so there is no one else to ask. I think that the WACO went west, but I have not a clue as to where. The Cub is still in Tennessee, and is now on floats. Two out of three ain't bad.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

Masterchief --
You probably already know this, but if you know the Waco's "N" number, you can try to look it up on the FAA's website. If it's still registered under that number, it'll be on there....

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Old 08-26-2007, 03:49 PM
  #3409
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: Stickbuilder

and although I hate to do something that is not true to scale, I just may have to to that on this one.

Man, do I understand where you're coming from; I looked at paint schemes 'til I was cross-eyed, before seeing the one I liked. I know there are patterns that are more or less popular to one type or another, but I don't think there really IS one that isn't 'true to scale'. The scallops on wings , cowl and wheel pants/gear fairings vary a bunch from one plane to another. Some are scalloped top and bottom on the wings, some on top only; the scallops vary in width and depth, and some don't have scallops at all. Some have the double stripe down the fuse side, some have a wider, single stripe, some have a panel of a different color. Unless you planned to compete in Scale Masters or Top Gun, where you were modeling a specific tail#, I don't think you could be "faulted" for whatever variation on some pattern you've seen somewhere. I even saw a pic of a YMF with a sunburst pattern (like a Pitts or Decathalon), and the pic looked like it was from back in the '50s or early '60s, given the dress of the people and some of the cars in the photo.

I chose my scheme maybe more for its departure from what you see in most photos than for any other reason. I didn't copy it exactly (I didn't reproduce the scallops on the wing undersides), but I can still say that this was representative of the type for the era. You can take a lot of liberty with a variation on any number of schemes and still be correct. Just don't try to make it look like a Cessna

Hey, Waco Joe, what say you regarding Waco paint scheme authenticity; you out there, Bro?
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Old 08-26-2007, 06:14 PM
  #3410
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Mobyal,

I don't know the N-number of the WACO My Grandfather died when I was 10 years old. The WACO left soon after, and the way I found the Monocoupe was purely by accident. I saw one at a fly-in and found the owner. We got to talking, and I told him about the one that Grandfather had. Turns out that he knew the history of his, and it happened to be the one. The Cub has been close to home the entire time, so that one wasn't a problem.

Ken,

I think that I will do the scallops on top and bottom of both wings, the V-stab, the H-stab, gear legs, and wheel pants. I'm not sure how I'll do the cowl, but with all the other scallops, the cowl may look a tad busy with additional scallops.

I got the cowl ring cut and installed and blended today. That doesn't sound like much, but it's a pretty fierce job. Final sanding on the fuse, and it's covering time....[&:]

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Old 08-26-2007, 07:41 PM
  #3411
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Bill,

Here are a few of the colour schemes from the Fly In (The YMF (NC14081) is not pictured here, plenty in previous posts). They may help you design your scallops and other items for the paint scheme.

1. UPF-7 (NC 29303) White with Dark Blue (not quite Navy Blue) trim and gold pinstripe. Large scallops with loonngg points between.
2. UBA (NC 13041) Green on Dark Green, Red pinstripe, Silver wings. Small scallops on leading edge of landing gear fairings and rudder. Black wing numbers with red pinstripe outline. Black interplane struts. Another view of the same plane Ken showed.
3. UPF-7 (NC 39727) Green and Yellow, gold Pinstripes. No scallops. Note the metal surfaces are darker than the fabric. Jerry said the paint on the fabric faded (same paint and system)
4. UPF-7 (NC 32158) Brown and Yellow Cream with Copper pinstripes. Medium scallops
5. QCF (NC 9220J) Lt. Cream with Dark Red trim and black pinstripe separation line. Medium scallops. Note side stripe is a Hawks Beak start instead of the Horseshoe Crab. Also note wing tip taper on underside of wing.
6. UBF-2 (NC 2091K) Lt Cream with Brown and Red pinstripe, similar side stripe to QCF, medium scallops. Also note the back of the prop is painted flat black. (HARM A/C, can get more pictures if needed).
7. UBF-7 (NC 155Y) Texaco, Red with White trim, Black pinstripes. Unique paint job for advertising, one of a kind test plane for fuel. Small scallops on the Cowl, Rudder and Wheel Pants, no scallops on wings. (HARM A/C)
8. UBF-7 (NC 39748 – Waco Joe’s) Santa Fe Red Daytona White Trim with Gold pinstripes. Medium scallops, short point. Thanks to Joe for the exact colour info.
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Old 08-27-2007, 07:10 AM
  #3412
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: Stickbuilder


Okay, Here is the roster to date.

WACO BROTHERHOOD MEMBERSHIP:

#1 stickbuilder
#2 Hughes500
#3 Jim Henley
#4 mmattockx
#5 CTflyboy
#6 michaelj2k
#7 Ronj10
#8 gwulle
#9 jim schroer
#10 Skinny Bob
#11 Bart5495
#12 Pimmnz
#13 HarryJ
No. 14 Old Git
#15 ChrisMH
#16 Nerevar
#17 Ricatic
#18 Clay H.
#19 Tripp2Loo
#20 KHodges
#21 Bill Hogue (WACO One)
#22 Mangolo (Waldo)
#23 av8ter
#24 yel914
#25 damifino
#26 skylarkmk1
#27 Jacque
#28 Edwin
#29 AROPLANE
#30 CubNut (Anthony)
#31 BQuartucy (Bob Q)
#32 AERORON
#33 funkymusic
#34 Live Wire (Larry)
#35 obo (Bob)
#36 Jackk36 (Jack)
#37 fatherrooster (Jim)
#38 Ilikebipes
#39 Kestrel0222
#40 CROWMAN17 (Marc)
#41 redcesar
#42 S. Christensen (Scott)
#43 Bill Deidrich
#44 Mike Barbee
#45 mrdhud (Dan Hudson)
#46 SoCalSal
#47 Todd (NightStalker)
#48 argon (Bob Gonzalez)
#49 mango 12 (Scott)
#50 skyjet 1
#51 ZIG
#52 Didg
#53 MarvinE255 (DOC)
#54 Joe Norris (Full Scale WACO Pilot)
#55 vasek
#56 SuperCub Man (Jim)
#57 Black Drape (Ron)
#58 aminiet (Angel Minet)
#59 Snowball
#60 doc zinger
#61 jagnweiner (Scott)
#62 Meesh (Bob)
#63 BigBoy99 (Bernie)
#64 stifts (Steve)


#66 Mobyal

#69 trlambsr

#77 tomcraig


#100 nine o nine (Mitch Epstein)



WACO Sisterhood Roster:

S-1 Janelle (Lady Stickbuilder)
S-2 Sissy Nightstalker
S-3 Barb Barbee
S-4 LadyMango (Lynda)


Bill, AMA 4720
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it's update time




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Old 08-28-2007, 09:49 AM
  #3413
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Bill,

Another thought is to go to the National Waco Club site http://www.nationalwacoclub.com/ and look at the "F3F5" photo album. Most pictures are black and white, with a few color pictures, quite a few picture are different views of the same A/C. With out direct information, the colors would be an educated guess or WAG. Thats what happened to Ken, he took a WAG and painted his Cream and Red (looks good as painted Ken) and later found out it was actually White and Dark Blue. You could do the same plane Ken did, NC 14132, only in one of its other color schemes such as yellow with red trim. Or do NC 86 Y, it had a color scheme pattern similar to the UBF "Texaco" above.
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Old 08-28-2007, 10:18 AM
  #3414
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I've been to that site and went again. The closest thing to what I want, is the scheme that khodges is currently using. This is a black and white photo, so the dark color could be anything.... I do kind of like the 1940 UPF (NC29328), but It's still not there.

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Old 08-28-2007, 10:24 AM
  #3415
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Ken (khodges) and others,

Take a look at the National Waco Clubs 2007 Reunion Photos. Many of the Wacos at the American Waco Club Fly In the week before were also there. I saw Rich's 1929 ASO (Black and Silver), Dave's 1930 ASO (#26), Bill's YKS (Sat. Breakfast Site), Phill's UBA (Green on Green), The UKC, UEC, the Grey/Blue YKS-6 and maybe another one or 2. One UPF-7 had a color scheme very similar to to Jerry's Green and Yellow, but this one had scallops where Jerry did not. Compare this shot of Jerry's to the one (NC 29328) on the NWC site. Some good pictures.
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Old 08-28-2007, 11:08 AM
  #3416
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Bill,

During the AWC Fly In, Ken and I had the opportunity to talk with Andy Heins, who owns most of the B/W pictures on the NWC site. He said that NC 14132 was at his field, was waiting restoration (currently un-flyable) and that the colors were actually White with Dark Blue. You could attempt to WAG the colors to get it painted right away. Or you could try to track down the owners and see what the colors were (FAA inquiry, write a letter to listed owner, etc.), but that could take some time. With a combined total of only about 36 of UMFs and YMFs built during the 1930s, your chances have been reduced on finding the authentic color scheme you want. The Waco Classic Aircraft Company has built quite a few more of the newer YMFs (35-39 Classics and 80+ Supers), so that may be another source for a color scheme. (Remember the Supers are longer and wider than the Originals and Classics for scale fidelity).
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Old 08-28-2007, 11:18 AM
  #3417
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Default RE: WACO YMF

All that, and the fact that they were often repainted, and re-covered and repainted over the years. Who knows what is correct and what is not. I may just SWAG the color and go with the one that I like.

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Old 08-28-2007, 04:09 PM
  #3418
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Skylark, and others--check this out. Here's a story of the DH-4's trip to OshKosh, on Poplar Grove Airport's website.

http://www.poplargroveairmotive.com/...res/Index.html

Lots of pictures and a detailed story. Click on the "Great Air Trips" where the pic of the DH-4 tail is.
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Old 08-28-2007, 04:55 PM
  #3419
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: Stickbuilder

All that, and the fact that they were often repainted, and re-covered and repainted over the years. Who knows what is correct and what is not. I may just SWAG the color and go with the one that I like.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1
Bill, this is kind of what I was getting at. I saw a picture a while back, another B&W, of a similar scheme to mine, but can't seem to locate it again. I'll keep looking, though. It's got some similar scallops, but it's not the run-of-the-mill Waco patterns that most modelers use. There is a nice picture of a navy blue and pastel blue Waco on the website Skylark mentioned, the colors look nice together.
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Old 08-28-2007, 06:59 PM
  #3420
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Original ? 1933 Crashed and killed Pilot in Oklahoma.
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Old 08-28-2007, 07:07 PM
  #3421
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I haven't been able to locate the post - but it was just a few days ago (I think) - and it mentioned the quality of the FG cowl and wheel pants from Precision FG Products for the 1/5th Scale Waco. The posts said they had quite a few "pin holes" as well as the pants being a little too wide for the scale. Is there another place to order these items? Since I will be ordering three of each I would like to make sure I'm getting a good product! I hate ordering for other people as I know I will feel guilty if the product is not up to snuff!!
Still pounding out the corrugated aluminum aileron panels. Boy they look good. Also had a chance to crawl all over (figure of speach) my subject Waco today. Unfortunately I didn't have my camera with me as it was a last minute invitation. But it showed me a lot of things that I had only seen in this thread. For example, all the screws on this aircraft were philips head and I didn't know the rear cockpit had leather padding sewn around the cockpit combing (spelling?) This is going to be a lot of fun!! From now on I carry my camera with me at all times!!
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Old 08-28-2007, 07:16 PM
  #3422
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Post #3375 stick. I haven't heard of Fiberglass Specialist's though

I have heard that about Precision. All that old blue polyester resin.

http://www.precision-fiberglass-prod.com/

At Fiberglass Specialties that will never happen. All West Systems Epoxy glass parts. I have dozens of the epoxy glass parts. No holes. The width is right on compared to Pica parts.

http://www.fiberglassspecialtiesinc.com/

Cheers, John
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Old 08-28-2007, 07:19 PM
  #3423
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Ken,

Thanks for the link to the article of the DH-4 written by Don Parsons. I had had the brief story from Glenn, the article is good and expands on what Glenn told me.

The Waco with a similar paint job to yours can be found in the F-2 Album on the NWC site. See pictures 185 (B/W) and 188 (color, White with Orange/Red trim) of UBF-2 NC 13446.

Also see pictures 91-97 of QCF-2 NC 12428 (pictured flying above with the DH-4) in a different paint job. It was the Grand Champion at Oshkosh this year and has come a long way from the way it was pictured in picts 96-97.
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Old 08-28-2007, 08:17 PM
  #3424
Live Wire
 
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Jim Henley
Since you were here I have not touched the Waco but I am going to try to have it in the air before the 15 & 16 of Sept. SMAA fun fly. Not all the fine thing that a full scale hase but close Just wnt to make sure it fly's
And to all other brothers I will keep you posted
O yes I am going to have to put the old girl on the scales to see how fat she got Then see if i have horse anough to pull her[]
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Old 08-28-2007, 09:59 PM
  #3425
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Ken,

Also take a look at the RNF, INF ... Album. Two RNFs, NC 631Y (page 3) has a similar fuselage trim and NC 139Y (page 2) has a similar pattern and an inverted pattern (the scallop pattern tapers up on the fuselage instead of down like yours).
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