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WACO YMF

Old 09-21-2007, 03:20 PM
  #3651
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Todd, that is right, and believe it or not....I've used their services before.

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Old 09-21-2007, 03:28 PM
  #3652
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Jim,

Don't have any pictures, have not started on the Waco and every thing else is covered. I have the 1/6th scale plans (digital and paper), but am liking the 1/5th scale (digital plans) better and better (note to self; order paper plans). On my Super Cub (RCM -May 98, enlarged to 1/5th/84”) I did put some holes in the ribs, but didn't think it mattered much or made much difference due to the wing area. The picture is of the 1/6th rib at section "C" (midway between fuselage and aileron) on what I was planning. The nose hole is 1/2" and the three Mid chord holes are 3/4" (you will have to adjust for 1/5th). The rear hole will be lined with a paper tube for the aileron servo lead on the lower wing. Even though the ribs are there just to keep the fabric apart and other parts in alignment, they need support to keep the top and bottom apart. I like to keep 3/16" minimum along the top and bottom, 1/2" minimum from the spars, leading edges and between holes. I don't cut holes in ribs where struts attach or any other area that may need extra strength. I do think Barth removed too much rib material, the diagonals are cross grain to their length and therefore quite weak unless made from "lite" ply.
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Old 09-21-2007, 05:17 PM
  #3653
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Thanks John. I think that is the way I'll go. Was thinking of getting real fancy with cutouts made on the scroll saw etc. - but it is nothing anyone will see and drilling is much easier and faster and the effect will be the same - less weight. I shall compute my weight savings. Should be interesting!!
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Old 09-21-2007, 06:19 PM
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Jim,

You could always make your ribs like the full scale one are made. Some 1/8" bass wood and 1/64" ply, a little glue and away you go. Make them in a jig and you can have them done in about 2 months (figure doing one a day). In the picture notice that the rib in the foreground is constructed with wider verticle members and the rest have diagonal members.
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Old 09-21-2007, 07:27 PM
  #3655
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ORIGINAL: skylarkmk1

Jim,

You could always make your ribs like the full scale one are made. Some 1/8" bass wood and 1/64" ply, a little glue and away you go. Make them in a jig and you can have them done in about 2 months (figure doing one a day). In the picture notice that the rib in the foreground is constructed with wider verticle members and the rest have diagonal members.
Where would you go about getting the 1/5 scale brass screws to hold the parts together? Can you imagine the screwdriver that would fit them. Heck, the way my eyssight is going, I'd probably wind up with the wing looking like one of those ugly stick wings.[:@].

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Old 09-21-2007, 08:12 PM
  #3656
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Bill,

Not many screws, just small nails or brads (better to mash your fingers with). The few screws I've seen have been for the internal wire bracing or what look like 1/4 x 20 screws (with blind nuts) for the aileron hinge or strut/fuse connection parts. I think 2-56 screws and nuts would work just fine. I belive Micro-Mark has the tiny screws and or brads.
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Old 09-21-2007, 08:12 PM
  #3657
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Chief
Did you see the YMF5 in duy and sell $17,000 They even have a SRE

And for the screws Z gage model RR[:@]
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Old 09-21-2007, 08:43 PM
  #3658
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Well John....that would be fun - but I don't think so. However I have thought about doing that on other aircraft using a method I have seen of building up a rib section with a jig, and making it out of 4" or 6" wide wood - then slicing the ribs out like cutting meat. Must see if I can find that - if any one's interested! No I think I'll just get the Forstners sharpened and start drilling[>:]
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Old 09-21-2007, 08:51 PM
  #3659
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ORIGINAL: Nightstalker

Hi Sean - The grain of Koverall runs parallel with the finished seam. Says so on the label in the bag. I wondered how to tell this too awhile back and noticed the label after spending several minutes examining the material with a 20X jewlers loupe. Who reads labels anyways?

Todd
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Hey Todd,
I was making an assumption the grain would run lengthwise on the wing. If the grain of the Koverall runs parallel to the finished seam that is the 48" lenghtway of my Koverall. My wingspan is 60" which means there is no way for me to do it in one piece. Am I wrong in the way I think I should run the grain on my wing? Also which way does the grain run on solid pieces like the rudder and ailerons? Does the grain of the Koverall run with the wood grain?????

Sean
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Old 09-22-2007, 03:22 AM
  #3660
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ORIGINAL: Redwulf__34


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Nightstalker

Hi Sean - The grain of Koverall runs parallel with the finished seam. Says so on the label in the bag. I wondered how to tell this too awhile back and noticed the label after spending several minutes examining the material with a 20X jewlers loupe. Who reads labels anyways?

Todd
WACO Brotherhood #47
Hey Todd,
I was making an assumption the grain would run lengthwise on the wing. If the grain of the Koverall runs parallel to the finished seam that is the 48" lenghtway of my Koverall. My wingspan is 60" which means there is no way for me to do it in one piece. Am I wrong in the way I think I should run the grain on my wing? Also which way does the grain run on solid pieces like the rudder and ailerons? Does the grain of the Koverall run with the wood grain?????

Sean
Sean,

There are 2 directions with the Koverall (grains if you will). Lay the Koverall out on the table, or the floor. You can look closely at the material, and see that you have one set of threadlines oriented in one direction, and another set of threadlines that run perpendicular to them. This is called the warp, and the weave. In recent years the terminology has become MD (machine direction) and XD (cross direction). Now that this is out of the way, lay the material out on the wing so that you have about 2" hanging off at one wing tip, and cut the material on the other end, so that you have about 2" over length there as well. Now align the material so that you have about 2" overhang at the leading edge, and the trailing edge. What i meant by keeping the grain straight, was to not adhere the material to the model on a bias. When you begin to shrink the material, you will see that the product shrinks equally in both directions (along the grain/s) This product will shrink at least 12% both machine and cross direction. It 's not a big deal which way the product is oriented other than to not install it on a bias. Hope this helps clear it up for you.

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Old 09-22-2007, 05:07 AM
  #3661
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Thanks Stickbuilder.
That clears it up. I also thought by one piece you meant one piece entire wing both top and bottom all one, I was going to go all the way around in one piece. Glad you cleared that up as well.

No shrinking can be done until the wing is completely covered, top and bottom? That sounds like a no brainer but I've been wrong a few times here. By shrinking the bottom without the top covered would cause a twist or warp in the structure, right?

Sean
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Old 09-22-2007, 05:52 AM
  #3662
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ORIGINAL: Redwulf__34

Thanks Stickbuilder.
That clears it up. I also thought by one piece you meant one piece entire wing both top and bottom all one, I was going to go all the way around in one piece. Glad you cleared that up as well.

No shrinking can be done until the wing is completely covered, top and bottom? That sounds like a no brainer but I've been wrong a few times here. By shrinking the bottom without the top covered would cause a twist or warp in the structure, right?

Sean
Sean,

You can do the wing i one piece. Just adhere the bottom to the trailing edge first, then wrap the wing ending at the trailing edge. But, before shrinking the fabric, I would reccomend adhering the leading edge and the tips. Your first try, you would probably be better off to only do the bottom, and then the top. It gets to be a little unweildly otherwise. Just give it a try and you will see how it goes. Once the bottom is covered, you can shrink the fabric lightly. Just be sure not to pull any warps in the wing. This stuff is strong, and you can warp something if not careful.

Bill, AMA 4720
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I'm sending you a pm with my phone number. Call me and I'll walk you through this.
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Old 09-22-2007, 06:22 PM
  #3663
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Stickbuilder.

About covering the wings, I may have been doing it backwards, I start just aft of at the upper leading edge and tack the bottom surface in place, then fold it over to the upper surface and end at the lower side of the wing leading edge giving me about a one inch overlap.
Is it a matter of preference, or does it really makes a difference?

On another subject.

Regarding the Cuban UMF-3 Wacos.
I have been in contact with a man who was a captain in the Cuban Navy air wing before Castro. and remembers the Wacos well.
He is now 90 years old.
The only part of the airplane painted yellow was the upper surface of the upper wing, and this was for visibility purposes just in case in went into the drink, the rest of the aircraft was painted navy gray except for the cowling which had no blisters and was blue, same as the 3 stripes on the Cuban flag which is painted on the rudder. the star as shown on the picture we all see is crooked or at an angle, The star is always with a tip pointed up, the number and the letters on the sides of the fuselage were black, and on the case of the Wacos, the roundels had the tip of the star painted aft, in some other aircraft types the tip goes forward.
Another big detail I found out from him is that at the vertical stab. the navy emblem or shield was painted, this were two anchors crossed like an X and had wings on top, I guess similar to a pilots wings. I asked him to draw me a picture. If we look close at aircraft 26, you will see a blurr at that location.
Aircraft 26 was in service until the late 50's
I will continue to dig for information, i find it not only interesting, but fastinating as well.

Angel
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Old 09-22-2007, 07:47 PM
  #3664
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Default RE: WACO YMF

There is no backwards or forwards. Just whatever works for you. Normally, if you are doing the top and bottom seperately, you would do the bottom first, so that when you do the top, the leading edge overlaps the bottom so that the seam is less visible. When I do the wing in one piece, I actually start at the top just where the trailing edge stops (at the open bay) and then wrap the covering material completely around the wing and stick it down at the edge of the top trailing edge. This gives me plenty of overlap, and good penetration of the dope. Also it makes finding the seam virtually impossible. I use a single edge razor blade, and trim the material at the bitter edge of the trailing edge, and no seams can be found. It even works on the top wing with the visibility cut-out. As I said, whatever works for you is what is the best way.

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Old 09-23-2007, 07:56 AM
  #3665
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Angel,

Is this UMF (P1) the one you are talking about? Note in the drawing (P2) the star is tilted wrong compared to the photo. I have a copy of Clude McCuloughs S3HD-A documentation. I could forward you a copy, send s PM with your street address if you want.
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Old 09-23-2007, 09:54 AM
  #3666
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Hi, I am new to this post and I know this is off the subject that you are talking about. I need some advice on painting a 77 inch skybolt that is covered with Super coverite. The covering looks great and I dont want to strip it. My question is do I have to dope it first and then paint it or can I use primer on it and then paint it. If it needs to be doped first, what type of dope to use. Thanks for any help. Wayne M.
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Old 09-23-2007, 10:26 AM
  #3667
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Guys,

A little inspiration goes a long way. Meet Waco Sister #1, Mrs. Stickbuilder, with the new one, and also with her WACO. Photos taken this morning.

Bill, AMA 4720
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Old 09-23-2007, 12:20 PM
  #3668
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John.

The aircraft I am talking about is the one in the left, the aircraft on the right is incorrect as it was really number 23 and it was not a navy aircraft so all that writing was not there, it had instead what is called The 4 of September emblem. Also the fuselage was silver and it had more yellow painted areas.
P2 is obviously an artist drawing with the wrong information.
I have talked with Mr McCullough and he sent me the information he has on his magnificent model.
You can see a picture of his model on the previous pages on this forum, I thought it was page 87 but it is not there any more, this forum changed pages some time ago.

Angel
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Old 09-23-2007, 06:25 PM
  #3669
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ORIGINAL: Stickbuilder

Guys,

A little inspiration goes a long way. Meet Waco Sister #1, Mrs. Stickbuilder, with the new one, and also with her WACO. Photos taken this morning.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1
Bill, if you can judge a man by his wife, you must be a pretty nice guy. The planes look good, I've seen pics of hers before. Does she fly, too?
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Old 09-23-2007, 06:49 PM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: skylarkmk1

Jim,

Don't have any pictures, have not started on the Waco and every thing else is covered. I have the 1/6th scale plans (digital and paper), but am liking the 1/5th scale (digital plans) better and better (note to self; order paper plans). On my Super Cub (RCM -May 98, enlarged to 1/5th/84”) I did put some holes in the ribs, but didn't think it mattered much or made much difference due to the wing area.
Well John - My buddy who leant me the grams scales was over to look at my progress and had a good laugh when he showed me that I had read the scales wrong and that my decimal was out one place!! I saved .6 oz. not 6 oz. drilling out the tail feathers. When I stop and think of it nearly 1/2 lb. is really a ridiculous amount!! Just past my 75th and I guess that allows me to be stupid!! With such "small" weight savings, I've now decided to only drill one 3/4" hole in the ribs and save myself a lot of work. I can pass the servo wiring through easily and I'll drill small holes for the flying lights wiring as needed. Lots of fun keeping the Forstner from galling up with the soft balsa - but it's done. The wing center is now built and moving on to the outer panels. I build the center panel and the right panel all at one time. Will post a pix of the setup later.
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Old 09-23-2007, 07:48 PM
  #3671
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: khodges


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Stickbuilder

Guys,

A little inspiration goes a long way. Meet Waco Sister #1, Mrs. Stickbuilder, with the new one, and also with her WACO. Photos taken this morning.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1
Bill, if you can judge a man by his wife, you must be a pretty nice guy. The planes look good, I've seen pics of hers before. Does she fly, too?
No, but she lets me fly for her, only not her WACO. She says that one is never going to fly.
That's why she has it hanging in the living room. Takes a great wife to want an airplane hanging in the living room. I'm proceeding with the new one. I should be doing the engine fitting this week, to establish how long a set of stand-offs I will need. What size fuel tank are you using on your G-26 Ken?

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Old 09-23-2007, 07:51 PM
  #3672
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Angel,

I knew the was a mistake in the drawing, but other than the star I couldn't figure it out. The picture below is Claude's plane that I found on the net.
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Old 09-23-2007, 08:25 PM
  #3673
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Stickbuilder- Is that a new tailwheel yoke I see on the first photo? I'm about 10 pieces of wood behind you on my build!
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Old 09-23-2007, 08:39 PM
  #3674
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Guys,

I know this is a little off topic, but there has been a new arrival at CCA. (P1)It is a Messerschmitt Bf 108 Taifun (N 525R) allegedly belonging to the actor Cliff Robertson. It came in about 3 weeks ago and is pretty neat. I didn’t realize that the wings folded for storage.

Ken, (back on the subject of Wacos)

The Dark Blue/Lt Blue UPF-7 (NC 173E) (P2) has been sold, so I won’t be able to get any more pictures of it.
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Old 09-23-2007, 09:38 PM
  #3675
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ORIGINAL: damifino


Stickbuilder- Is that a new tailwheel yoke I see on the first photo? I'm about 10 pieces of wood behind you on my build!
Nope, just the same old one....I have to make the new brackets for that one yet. How do you like the color? That picture shows the shine. The first photo that I took did not. Flash vs no flash I guess.

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