ctflyboy

My Feedback: (3)

Hi Bill,
Well I got my ebay waco today, I just happen to in town on business and figured to stop at home, lucky for me I did the postman left the box on the step leaning against my front door and no one was home,I got to let the POknow about this, I don't know how long it was sitting therebut I got it. Like Michaelj2k said mine is the same description BLUE w/Yellow trim on the box.checked it all out and everything is there. Apparantly the seller is not the original owner, I found a sales receipt in the bottom of the box it reads as follows:
Mutchler's Hobby shop, Corrydon,Ind. the date was 12/1/1983 The selling price was
for the 1/5th scale WACO $ 97.95, When I read that I damn near fell over backwards
George WACO Brotherhood #5 PS, wood & diecut in excellent shape like the box was never opened

Stickbuilder

And, just as everything that is out of production, and is still sought after....the value becomes whatever whomever is looking for the item will pay. Obviously, we will continue to pay 3 or more times what the item sold for when new. I asked you if you wanted your money back, and you said no. Do you want to make a little money on it? [8D] The last one that I got from e-bay, I had the bid capped at 400 bucks. It took 335 to get it. I did get one for 250 a few months back.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

ctflyboy

My Feedback: (3)

So Bill,
Seeing you never had your question directly answered,

What was the verdict?
is the WACO Vintage?

George
WACO Brotherhood # 5

Stickbuilder

Well, everything that has been made has a, "Vintage". Even MD 20-20 (often the vintage for that stuff is like, Tuesday). So far as I'm concerned, the Pica Kits are all, "Vintage." They are no longer produced, and they are my favorites, and if someone has a problem with that, they need to learn to deal with it. Most of the production run of these kits was made in the mid to late 70's, so that makes the WACO YMF kits in 1/5th scale about 30 years old. Works for me.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

Jim Henley

Hi Guys,
Just a quick note to say the wheel pants are roughed out and coated inside with epoxy, today I hope to do the final shaping and start the fiber glass work. I picked up a small can of fiberglass resin and some hardener, when I finished flying yesterday.
Still curious, what is the difference between Nitrate and Butyrate dope? I have not bought either and I don't thinkI will need it with the
Super Coverite, but one never knows.
Jim

Stickbuilder

Jim,

Nitrate dope is a nitrocelluloce derivitive, whil butyrate is a butyl derivative. You can put butyrate over nitrate, but not nitrate over butyrate. The nitrate is similar to automotive lacquer (in fact, we used to use nitrocellulose lacquer), and the butyrate gives a better final finish, and is considered to be more fuel-proof. The nitrate gives better adhension than does the butyrate, and the shrink rate for the nitrate is much higher. The nitrate also makes for a better sealer than does the butyrate. I can probably think up more differences, but these are the major ones that come to mind.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

Jim Henley

Thank You Bill,
I never made that connection, now I understand that Nitrate is the base coat and what ever else one used would be the top coat. Sort of like putting enamel over lacquer, but you can not put lacquer over enamel.
So once I get the wheel pants glassed If I needed more of a filler coat I could use the Nitrate?
I took your advise and checked into glass wheel pants and they are not too expensive, but I had the laminations glued up and they were roughly shaped to all I had to do was cut them in half, hollow them out and epoxy them back together once I had coated the insides. If it gets nice out I may go fly today, (had my X-mitter battery die yesterday which cut my time at the field short) if not I will concentrate on getting the wheel pants fiberglassed.
Jim

Stickbuilder

Jim,

I would use automotive spot putty if it was mine. Nitrate would not build up very much.

It's back together again. Almost finished. I still have to put some more detail on, and a couple more items. Here's some pics.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

Jim Henley

Thanks, understand. Once the glass goes on I can use spot putty to fix the small imperfections. Should I put Nitrate over the glass or can I use the spot putty right on the fiberglass then prime?
You pictures are very good, looks as it the Tinker belle Express is moving right along. Did you use the Sullivan flying wire kit on the
H and V stab?
Jim

Stickbuilder

No, I made my own. I will also be making the flying wires. Have you ever noticed that some automobile windshield wiper blades have stainless steel inserts that are about 1/8" wide and run full length of the blade? Some blades have two of these, and I will be using them for the flying wires.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

ctflyboy

My Feedback: (3)

Bill,
Nice pics, and yes you are creative I would have never thought about a windshield wiper,

And Vintage! yup, that works for me also.


George
WACO Brotherhood #5

flyguy888

My Feedback: (63)

Just discovered the 1/5 Waco thread. It is good to know that others are building this plane. I am in the midst of finishing mine this Christmas. Some of the features I incorporated into mine from other info gleaned from the web:
I am powering mine with a q35
I have a servo in each wing instead of a bell crank set up.
I have two dowels in the front of the wing instead of the one per plan.
I mounted the servos for the rudder,elevator way back in the fuse. The nose was heavy anyway.
I really appreaciated the pics on the wing fillets. I was in the process of figuring them out and the pics will help alot. I have an older Pica kit that did not have the abs fillets. For those who want them, I have made PDF files of the prints. I have a large format scanner here at work.

Stickbuilder

Jim,

You won't need to put any nitrate dope on the fiberglass. Just use the spot putty directly on the glass, and then prime. I would lay on a couple of light coats of primer, and wet sand them with 400 wet or dry (wet) and then do a couple of more coats of primer, and wet sand with 600 grit wet or dry. clean the parts and then clean them again. Clean them one more time prior to adding the paint. Did I mention to clean the parts before you paint them?

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

Jim Henley

Thank You Bill,
I appreciate that information, and yes I do remember from long ago, cleanliness is a must before one attempts to put paint on anything. Particularly your automobile or airplane!
Looks as if we have a new member to the WACO thread, there is a new photo posted just today the numbers are growing !!
Jim

Stickbuilder

Welcome aboard. Grab your Brotherhood number and hang on. Uhhh ABS wing fillets????? I must have all old kits, cause none of mine have any fillet material at all. I had to make my own. That's okay, cause I never have figured how to glue ABS plastic to koverall. Or anything else for that matter. You will have to figure out which Brotherhood number you will be using. This is the loodest organization ever. No rules, no records, nothing but fun and a love for these old ragbags. Glad you came.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

Stickbuilder

Can't spell worth spit tonight (now don't you guys go saying tonight????) I meant to say this is the loosest organization ever.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

WacoCabinaero

This is the full scale F model that started it all for Pica. YMF-3 NC14031 It is the one that Dave Platt originally flattered further by modelling it. I looked over the thread again for the hundredth time and didn't see this book page already posted. I thought some may be interested in what this page says about the history of the original subject.

This is from a Raymond Brandley "Waco Aircraft Production 1923 -1942" published in 1978. Brandley published 2 more. "The Versatile Cabin Series" and the "The Famous F Series". I found them all on Ebay. If you persist they do appear once in a while.

Kudos to all of you for such great work. Undoubtedly you all have inspired many individuals, myself included.

Thank you Stickbuilder for starting this topic and sticking with it. I can't think of a topic that compares in enjoyment derived, at least for me. This is about all I can add (the attachment) that hasn't been said already.

Thanks all, Bill

WacoCabinaero

I'm not really sure how much value folks attach to the origins and history of the 1:1 scale subject. I hope that these attachments are out of the park, interest wise. It hadn't occurred to me that people may only be interested in the model. It is models that we are dealing with here.

A bit more history on YMF-3 NC14031 Serial Number 3944, Date of Manufacturing 6-21-34

Purchased new by Stephen J. Patterson of Brooklyn, New York through Waco Sales of New York. Finished in Insignia Blue with Cream trim edged in Gold. Cockpits were upholstered
in Light Red fabricoid; seats were Spanish Grain Dark Red fabricoid.

By 1935 the F-3 and F-5 were offered with the choice of 2 engines. The Continental R-670 with 210 hp which held the "U" designation and the Jacobs L-4 with 225 hp which held the "Y" designation.

The F-5 had 15 % more area in the vertical stab and rudder than the F-3. The F-3 was considered lacking in rudder authority. The F-5 had a bit taller tail post and the rest was proportionally larger than the -3.

Waco would also paint a new aircraft with any colour the purchaser wanted. They offered them in suggested colours but as a modeller you can paint your model with any colours keeping in mind the era and not give it the wrong paint job.

A couple pages from the F book.

Stickbuilder

No thanks are required. I love most things WACO. There is a YMF Classic that flies around our city most days. I got a peek up close on Saturday afternoon. I almost wish that I had copied the color on it, but then everyone would think that mine was the COX ARF version. I wish they had let the model die with dignity rather than make it available to all in the ARF version. I had even offered to purchase the kit rights from them, but was turned down. Cox will probably never offer the kit version again. I'm thinking about making enough changes to the kit and plans to not violate the copyright that they hold, and get Mace Gill (Aeroplane Works) to cut some kits, and offer them once again.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

flyguy888

My Feedback: (63)

My Brotherhood number?? You guys are serious. What is the last number taken, I will just choose the next. Anyway, I buy and sell alot of kits on ebay. I keep track of the waco's, I have a soft spot for biplanes. 4 weeks ago I saw an open box picture of a Pica laser cut kit kit that had the abs farings for both the top of the gear legs and the wing saddle joint. I can only guess that it was one of thier last enhancements before they went belly up. I purchased mine off ebay a year ago for 185.00. It was a new Pica white box edition but before the laser cutting. I guess I got it for a pretty good price seeing what they are going for now. They average 250.00 to 280.00. However, that late edition laser cut with the extra fairings went for 325.00. Can you imagine that?
Ron
______________________________________
If you love to build you have to pay the price.

Michaelj2k

Can I have a number? How about a secret handshake or initiation rite? (Oh, never mind - building one is your initiation).

WacoCabinaero

I believe that if the design could be copied as is. The trademarks, well, you know that part. No one has exclusivity or a patent of the scale or how one piece of wood is glued or situated to another. Cox may have bought Pica but I wonder if anyone there ran a letter by "Waco Classic Aircraft" to see if that blessing was in place but it likely isn't necessary as the aircraft we are talking about were produced by the "Waco Aircraft Company of Troy Ohio" which is long gone so then who's to ask.

It speaks to your character that you don't want to step on others toes but if you redraw it and kit it but just dont call it a Platt, Pica or Cox then I think your good. They have likely as changed the construction somewhat for ease of arfing it. Maybe not but it happens to most existing designs that get arfed.

They say "Repetition is the death of art". When it is guys building kits, the models end up unique in many other ways. When a factory is churning them out by the mile then it's the end to me and I choose not to stand there with the arf owner and pretend we are talking about the same thing when I built mine from a plan. I feel that this is just subjective on my part as others can't wait to buy them. They just have a different approach to it is all. The end result is that the arf is pi$$ing on my parade non the less.

A friend of mine bought the exclusive rights to a Pitts plans series that others have copied identically but not used the designers name he owns. He can't do a thing about it, or at least doesn't think it is worth his while. And this plans service sells a lot of them. My friend produces one of the series as a 1/3 ARF Pitts.

I'm making a move to 1/4 scale Waco Cabin jobs. I don't think they'll arf anything that has to be shipped in a piano box.

Cheers!

Stickbuilder

Let's see, George is #5, so you guys flip and see who gets #6, and who has to take the other numbers. Remember, no rules but one. Love the old ragbags. Like the man said...When the last WACO lands, the air will be nothing but air.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

flyguy888

My Feedback: (63)

I have never made wing fillets before so this was a real experiment. I just kept throwing wood at it until it looked ok. Making them blend to the aft of the fuse was a trick but it does not look too bad. Not scale but I am pleased. It was better than no fillets at all. My kit had no instructions or such for fillets.


__________________________________

If you love to build you have to pay the price

Stickbuilder

Now, I'm really going to make your day. Add a piece of balsa in between the stringers at the tail of your fillets. Go down to your neaghborhood home improvement super store, and get a tub (a small ...oh Hell, get the big one) of lightweight spackle. You will swear that the tub is empty. Lay the fillet in as smooth as you can, and once it dries (tomorrow) sand it smooth and slick. Paint it with nitrate dope to really harden it, and you will love the way it comes out. You can make the transition look like it was made from sheet metal. Most any covering material will stick to the doped filler, and you can even use iron on film if you really want to [:'(].

The spackle will also make a good filler for your low spots in the sheeting, and it sands easily, and get's as slick as polished glass. Once you use the dope on it, it really becomes hard to nick. Best of all, you could probably coat the entire airplane with it, and only gain a couple of ounces. You can even thin it with water if you need to. Note, do not try to force dry this stuff with your heat gun. It does not work (voice of experience).

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1