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WACO YMF

Old 11-18-2007, 05:28 AM
  #4476
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ORIGINAL: Jim Henley

Greetings to the brotherhood from Omaha NE. I am pleased to announce that the 1/5 scale Pica WACO that has been in the works for a year got it's maiden voyage today. The airplane is just beautiful in the air and flys quite nicely. However a bumpy landing has resulted in some minor damage that must be delt with before I can fly it again. To those who may be wondering, the Saito 150 does a great job pulling the aircraft, even with a fairly rich high speed needle setting.
Jim,
Congratulations on your maiden flight. To keep the landings smooth, keep a little throttle in, and fly it all the way to touchdown, then chop the throttle and let the tail settle. They glide like a crowbar if you pull the throttle too early.

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Old 11-18-2007, 06:35 AM
  #4477
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Jim,
Congratulations on the maiden flight. Hope the repairs are minor. Sure would like to see some pic's. Also, now that your done with the initial build (they are never really done, are they?) sure would like to here what you would have done different if you had it to do all over again.
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Old 11-18-2007, 09:23 AM
  #4478
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Thank you all for the support and encouragement, the damage is not too bad one wing tip, scratches to the cowl and damage to the left wings, when the prop broke, pieces of it damaged both left wings and the interplane struts. I am still trying to figure out what went wrong, I thought I had it greased in, and the next second it was bouncing down the runway. I felt like the plane was landing hot and in flight, I could tell it was nose heavy. The conditions were about perfect, so I'm just not sure what I did wrong, exept that when the plane touched down, it bounced with enouogh force to get airborne, but I was unable to get enough power under her to make a second go around.
Things I would do different, I would like to try Sig's Coveral, I will use my spray equipment in lieu of aerosol paint, I would reposition the servos so the controls do not impose on the cockpit, and I would definately want to look into the Sierra gear and or talk to Jay about the gear he built for Ken Hodges. One other thing, the stock Pica attachemt for the wheel pants failed so I will be looking for an alternative for those. However the wheel pants them selves (made from balsa) sustained little damage.
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Old 11-18-2007, 09:41 AM
  #4479
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Jim,

I can already see what the problem was/is.....Never let a Blonde fly your WACO.

DuBro has a nice set of wheel pant mounts. They are of some kind of tough Nylon with a captured heavy-duty collar made into the mount. They are what I have used for a long time, and never had a failure with them. The kit versions are awfully thin to try and solder to the 3/16" wire. You can use them better if you solder them to a wheel collar, but why bother when the DuBro versions are so inexpensive, and work so well.



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Old 11-18-2007, 10:05 AM
  #4480
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Yeah, I was worried about the blond holding the control stick, but as Hodges indicated, the regular pilot was behind the barn drinking from his bottle of courage so we let "Barbie" take the controls. I'll check into the DuBro mounts, are they like the ones Sig makes? I had thougt about trying those, if I can get them and the wheels all crowded into the wheel pants. I also am concerned with the Sullivan Sky Lite wheels, they seem quite hard, does someone make a 4" wheel that is more forgiving?
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Old 11-18-2007, 10:17 AM
  #4481
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ORIGINAL: Jim Henley

Yeah, I was worried about the blond holding the control stick, but as Hodges indicated, the regular pilot was behind the barn drinking from his bottle of courage so we let "Barbie" take the controls. I'll check into the DuBro mounts, are they like the ones Sig makes? I had thougt about trying those, if I can get them and the wheels all crowded into the wheel pants. I also am concerned with the Sullivan Sky Lite wheels, they seem quite hard, does someone make a 4" wheel that is more forgiving?
The mounts should fit into the pants with no problem. They can be used in place of the inner wheel collar. I use the Sullivan Skylight wheels with the aluminum centers. They seem to be a tad better than the ones with the plastic wheels. might be my imagination, but they seem to squat a little more with the plane sitting on them. That could indicate a softer tire.

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Old 11-18-2007, 11:06 AM
  #4482
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Bill,

Do you have a part number for the Dubro Pant mounts? I've checked the Dubro site without luck. I have found the SIG and Sullivan mounts. I have also checked Tower, no go on the Dubro mounts allthough they seem to have everything else by Dubro.
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Old 11-18-2007, 11:26 AM
  #4483
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Jim, congrats on your flight. The only advice I could give you, from all my evidence, is don't do whatever it is that I seem to be doing. Your landing sounds exactly like my last one; if it bounced that much, touchdown was way too hard. I'm almost inclined to say that part of the reason might be the hardness of the Sullivan tires. I started out with Robart tires; they are hollow, and when new are the perfect tire, they give enough that they really absorb most of the initial touchdown energy. As they get a few landings under them, though, the sidewall begin to give too much and get boogered up along the edge of the wheel bead. I changed to the Sullivan solid tires with the aluminum hub, and they have no give at all. Robart makes an insert for their tires, sort of a foam donut that firms them up without making them hard, and that should make their wheels more suitable. I also experimented with cutting some strips of foam rubber and packing my tires, and that also improved the feel of the tire , but the ones I packed were smaller size than what I needed for the Waco. I may go that route with a larger set and try again.

I'm going to have to move the attachment of my throttle cable on my throttle arm, so I get greater servo travel and less butterfly travel. My DX-7 Tx doesn't have exponential adjustment on the throttle (unless you set it up in the heli mode), and part of my problem on landing is that I'm unable to modulate my throttle enough at settings below 1/4. Throttle management is critical for this bird, one click too much and it floats in ground effect and won't settle, one click too little and it settles too fast, and you get a bounce that the wire gear, and even the one that Damifino made for me, can't damp enough (and actually accentuates the bounce). The soft tires did a good job of damping, but couldn't hold up to the rest of the job. I'm wondering how much damping the Sierra gear will have. Once the bounce starts, as you saw, it's pretty much all over the place and the wingtips and cowl start taking a beating.

On my good landings (even a blind squirrel finds a nut now and then) I brought it down to about two feet before I started leveling out, maintained power as it flew in ground effect, and started backing the throttle down a click at a time until it eventually settled on the mains, and only then did I cut power, let it roll out and the tail settled on its own. My plane, at any rate, will not three point without bouncing. The airspeed and angle of attack in a three point attitude create a stall, and the nose drops, and then a bounce. Rudder authority is still sufficient even at stall, though, to move the tail. Oddly enough, my two worst landings were into a breeze of about 4-5 mph. Just didn't want to stop flying, had to pull back more throttle, and all of a sudden, stall and nose drop. I'd almost rather land downwind with mine, a hot touchdown isn't as much a problem for me with this plane, allows me to carry more power all the way to the ground.

If you do go with the type gear Jay made for me, the wheel pant brackets are a non-issue. The flat tab where the axle attaches allows for a flat bracket that can be screwed down where it won't rotate, and the pants are very firmly mounted.
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Old 11-18-2007, 11:56 AM
  #4484
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Thanks for the feedback, I think I'll look into the Robart tires and inserts. Howver, even if the softer tires wear faster, it is easier to change tires than to repair the plane after each flight, probabley cheaper too! Bill if you have a part number for the dubro unit that would be terrific!
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Old 11-18-2007, 02:03 PM
  #4485
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Default RE: WACO YMF

I'll need to see if they have a part number on them. I'm sure that I don't have the card they came on, but I'll look.

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Old 11-18-2007, 02:07 PM
  #4486
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That's odd, My Sullivan wheels (aluminum hub) are softer than the ones that I have with the plastic hubs. Mine are a few years old (the plastic ones), but I wouldn't think that they would change them that much.

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Old 11-18-2007, 02:16 PM
  #4487
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ORIGINAL: skylarkmk1

Bill,

Do you have a part number for the Dubro Pant mounts? I've checked the Dubro site without luck. I have found the SIG and Sullivan mounts. I have also checked Tower, no go on the Dubro mounts allthough they seem to have everything else by Dubro.
Dang, I'm having more and more of these Dad Durned Senior moments lately. I found the card, and another package with my hatch latch in the trash. It is not a DuBro, it is a SIG, part number is SH720. I'm sorry there guys, I would have sworn that they were from DuBro. I think I'll go take a nap now.

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Old 11-18-2007, 02:57 PM
  #4488
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Jim,
Your WACO looks really nice. I have not yet caught what you covered her with. I too was going to make a wise comment about the hot chick flying the thing. But thats been done.
Looks like a really nice field you have to fly from. Except your trees are already leaf-less. Our trees are just now getting started.
As to landing, I have not flown a WACO yet. But with my "sig" Smith Mini Plane I would fly in as Bill has said with a little power. Once i got to the end of the runway I would drop all the way to idle one click at a time albiet quickly then back up a couple of clicks without ever stopping. Then it would settle then I could bring it back to idle just before touchdown.For me with that plane it helped get airspeed down but still enough propwash to keep her steady.
Good luck with the repairs and/or mods. May your next landing be greased!!
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Old 11-18-2007, 03:23 PM
  #4489
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Congrats on the maiden flight Jim. You worked hard to get it to this point.

I have to install flying wires now they look great on yours!

Steve
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Old 11-18-2007, 03:54 PM
  #4490
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Hughes,

I'm thinking seriously about ordering a set from Switzerland. Have you seen them? They look real.

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Old 11-18-2007, 04:00 PM
  #4491
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Hi Bill,
email sent to Darrell expressing interest for one possibly two sets of LG, thanks.

No , I have not seen them, I would like to.
I purchased some flat wire and ends from Mick Reeves but opted not to go that route.
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Old 11-18-2007, 06:34 PM
  #4492
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ORIGINAL: Hughes500E

Hi Bill,
email sent to Darrell expressing interest for one possibly two sets of LG, thanks.

No , I have not seen them, I would like to.
I purchased some flat wire and ends from Mick Reeves but opted not to go that route.
Didn't you like them? Will they work well?

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Old 11-18-2007, 07:05 PM
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ORIGINAL: Stickbuilder

Hughes,

I'm thinking seriously about ordering a set from Switzerland. Have you seen them? They look real.

Bill, AMA 4720
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Bill - If you are talking about fittings as in the pix. the flat wire is available from Nelson Hobby Specialties in Texas http://www.nelsonhobby.com/wires.html and the fittings are available from Bob Holman Plans http://bhplans.com/. I'd suggest you phone him. You get a pair of fittings for about 2.50. One is threaded and the other end is not so that you can simply turn the wire and tighten it to your specs. I think these are the same as Reeves offers. I got them and will be using them on my Dragon Rapide!
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Old 11-18-2007, 07:30 PM
  #4494
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ORIGINAL: SuperCub Man


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ORIGINAL: Stickbuilder

Hughes,

I'm thinking seriously about ordering a set from Switzerland. Have you seen them? They look real.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1
Bill - If you are talking about fittings as in the pix. the flat wire is available from Nelson Hobby Specialties in Texas http://www.nelsonhobby.com/wires.html and the fittings are available from Bob Holman Plans http://bhplans.com/. I'd suggest you phone him. You get a pair of fittings for about 2.50. One is threaded and the other end is not so that you can simply turn the wire and tighten it to your specs. I think these are the same as Reeves offers. I got them and will be using them on my Dragon Rapide!
Them's the ones. How about posting an address, phone number, and/or internet address?????

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Old 11-18-2007, 08:12 PM
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Rick, we do have a nice field but one does have to be carefull of the "plane eating trees" we have out there. The WACO is covered with Super Coverite, Nitrate dope,Krylon paints,and clear coat with poly urethane. The Super Coverite was easy to work with but I had issues where it wanted to pull loose in a tight inside radiuis curve. I am sure there are techiques to get around this just as there is with any covering material, I'm just trying to find something I am comfortable working with (besides Monokote)
Now I get to see how it is to work with making repairs !
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Old 11-18-2007, 09:08 PM
  #4496
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Jim
I am beginning to think I want to leave mine on the ground Congrats on the maiden an good luck with the repairs. One of these days I will get mine done health has me in a corner and not getting much done lately. Look at it and dream of when I will be able to get it done
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Old 11-18-2007, 09:15 PM
  #4497
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Larry,
Thanks for the kind words, the repair won't be too bad, just kind of frustrating to have that much time and effort into an airplane and have a bad landing. I had even been flying the Stearman to practice !.
Take care of yourself, health is first, WACO, second !
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Old 11-18-2007, 09:38 PM
  #4498
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Default RE: WACO YMF


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ORIGINAL: Stickbuilder


Quote:
ORIGINAL: SuperCub Man


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Stickbuilder

Hughes,

I'm thinking seriously about ordering a set from Switzerland. Have you seen them? They look real.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1
Bill - If you are talking about fittings as in the pix. the flat wire is available from Nelson Hobby Specialties in Texas http://www.nelsonhobby.com/wires.html and the fittings are available from Bob Holman Plans http://bhplans.com/. I'd suggest you phone him. You get a pair of fittings for about 2.50. One is threaded and the other end is not so that you can simply turn the wire and tighten it to your specs. I think these are the same as Reeves offers. I got them and will be using them on my Dragon Rapide!
Them's the ones. How about posting an address, phone number, and/or internet address?????

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

I thought I just did!!
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Old 11-18-2007, 10:55 PM
  #4499
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You did. I already told y'all I'm having a senior moment or three today. CRS disease is in high gear. Sorry.

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Old 11-18-2007, 11:15 PM
  #4500
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Jim, Glad to hear you flew your WACO. It looks great, especially the fly-by photo. You'll have it ready to go again before you know it. Good luck.
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