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WACO YMF

Old 11-28-2007, 11:34 PM
  #4701
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Rick,

I have found that if I try to type a long answer in the reply area, I get β€œWe’re Sorry, you have timed out” message and often loose what I just typed. So, what I do when I have a long response, comment or information to add to the thread is to type it up in word processing, spell check, copy and paste into the thread reply area. I often start in the reply, stop, copy to Word Processing, finish my comment and then copy back to the reply area. It is only a few extra clicks and saves me the frustration of losing the response I just typed. Plus you can save the response as a Word Document for reference.
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Old 11-29-2007, 03:10 AM
  #4702
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Landing Waco's. I have found that I use two idle settings. One is the usual `low as it will reliably go' thing and the other is what I call `flight idle' and this is found by practice. The idea here is to set a high idle that gives a comfortable descent rate in the circuit, so when you are ready to land the thing, full idle on the stick is preset, if you like, to give enough thrust for you to only have to worry about the keeping the wings level and the final flare to keep the wheels on the ground. To slow down now all you need to do is pull the trim back. If the wind is blowing, a little more `flight idle' will keep it coming over the fence with enough airspeed to have comfortable control if there is a little bit of a chop. Once these settings are found landing becomes a much easier proposition. Works for me anyway.
Evan, WB#12.
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Old 11-29-2007, 05:41 AM
  #4703
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Quote:
ORIGINAL: kruzin55

Bill,

Thanks for accepting me into the brotherhood and I appreciate the advice on the wheel pants, but I am not sure I understand what you mean by "sectioned a little over 1/4" from the center of the pants". Did you cut some off to make them narrower? Also, do you hav an engine recommendation for my other two 1/6 scale Wacos. I have an old kit-build that I purchase at our club dinner with an old super tigre .61 and have a new Cox Hobbies ARF in the mail. From what I gather on the forum, most think that the .61 is too small. Would a Saito .91 fit in the cowl.

Also, I read one of your post about a recommendation for dummy engines where you recommended the Williams Brothers 1/5 scale, but I have a heck of a time finding it on their web page. Thanks again.

Chris V.
Chris,

No thanks needed. Heck, we take everyone (almost). I will post a picture of the wheel pants (mounted on the model). I used a piece of 1/4" fine line tape, and put it on the wheel pants, beginning at the wheel hole in front, and carefully wrapping it arount the extreme perimeter of the pant, ending up at the wheel hole rear. I then used my band saw (dremel with cut off wheel will work as well) and carefully cut along the edge of the tape until I had the entire center of the wheel pant removed. I took both pieces to the sanding disk, and made sure that the edges were true. I used masking tape, and put both pieces back together, making sure that they fit exactly together (this is not difficult to do). I then cut a piece of fiberglass cloth to size and stuffed it into the wheel hole, and laid it out so that it went around the inside perimiter of the pant. I mixed fiberglass resin with the catalyst, and saturated the glass cloth, working all the cloth down to be as smooth as possible. When the resin cured, I used a sanding drum on the Dremel, and cleaned up the edges of the wheel hole. An application of auto body polyester putty, and a wet sanding with 320 yeilded a nice scale looking, much narrower wheel pant. Plus it kept me off the Universe for an evening.

I don't really know about the best engine for the 1/6th size model, but I have read that the OS 70FS engine is good, and that the Saito 82 is really too much engine. I would think that the OS 91 would give you clearence problems in the cowl. I would try the 70 Surpass. It is a grand little engine.

If you look back several pages, you will see where I made my own dummy radial from an old hairspray can, and some Balsa and some cylinders from the Top Flite 1/5th scale 9 cylinder dummy engine. Some aluminum tubing and a few pieces of wire later, you have it. At the risk of whizzing some folks off, I will include another photo. Tonight, I will get another pic showing a head-on shot of the wheel pant.

Bill, AMA 4720
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Old 11-29-2007, 05:54 AM
  #4704
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Default RE: WACO YMF

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ORIGINAL: danbassbone

What do you estimate the cost per kit to be?
Dan,

I'm not sure which kit you have reference to. If you mean the 1/5th scale kit that you will cut from the templates and the plans from AMA, I would think that you could replicate this kit (including the $100.00 for the fiberglass cowl and wheel pants, which most of us used instead of the cheap ABS plastic cowl that came with the original kit, and the wheel pants had to be built from balsa). For somewhere in the $200-250.00 range.

If you are talking about the 1/4 scale that I have yet to do much more on than just sketching out the basic layout, I would think that you could build it for about the same amount. The hardware is about the same, there is not that much more material required (a few more sheets of Balsa and You will probably buy a full sheet of 1/8" Luan ply for the formers and root ribs and a few more things. But It all depends on how much waste you have, how you lay it out, and how much detail you wish to have. I don't even want to think how much I already have in this one, or how much will be in it when finished.

These are not commercially reproduced, nor do we want them to be. This 1/5 scale model has had the plans and the parts templates given to the AMA, and as such, now belongs to whomever wishes to make one (operative word is one). We have been down the road of someone wanting to produce these before, and it is the consensus of the Brotherhood, that this should not happen. It is something that I personally do not wish to revisit, but will if absolutely necessary.

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Old 11-29-2007, 05:57 AM
  #4705
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Rick,

I have the spring mod on mine as well, but will probably cut the complete gear out of the model to set up the Scale version from Sierra. If possible, wait until Darrell has it ready before making the plunge to do the soldered wire set.

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Old 11-29-2007, 06:28 AM
  #4706
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Stickbuilder

Bill, I haven't thought about what kind of hinges to use yet. What type do you recommend and I will use them.
Thanks
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Old 11-29-2007, 08:07 AM
  #4707
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: Jim Henley

Scott,
Yes that was my home brew muffler, I built it out of 3/4 copper tube. I am trying to obtain some information on home built mufflers as I want to make sure this one is letting the engine breath properly. The engine is very quiet with this muffler and I want to make sure I am not creating too much back pressure.
As for adding an extension on to your stock muffler, my experience has not been good. If I may, I would suggest that you purchase the additional header pipe or extensions to place the stock muffler far enough down to exit the cowl where you want it to. I tried to put an extension on a O.S. 91 and never could keep the muffer from tearing it's self off the engine. The flex pipe and fittings I used on the WACO were from Mac's and they were not too expensive.
Jim-

Thanks for the suggestions. Regarding your problems with an OS .91, when you say "tearing itself off the engine" do you mean that it was coming off where the header pipe meets the cylinder? If so, I think that's an OS problem, not necessarily the extension. I have a friend with a .91 Surpass that keeps breaking the header pipe in flight. He's gone through at least four. I've heard of others with the same problem.
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Old 11-29-2007, 08:34 AM
  #4708
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Scott,
The muffler would "wallow out" the threads where it attached to the header pipe. I tried loctite, red rtf, and JB Weld I even drilled through the muffler and head pipe and secured them with a 2-56 bolt. I wound up going through 2 or 3 mufflers. Once I purchaced the OS extension, the probelem went away. I think the additonal weight at the end of the muffler exacerbates the vibration. Perhaps as you indicate this is an "OS" problem, please let us know how your extension works out
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Old 11-29-2007, 08:50 AM
  #4709
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Bill,
Which Top Flite engine did you get your cylinders from? Your engine came out very nice, and that would be an easy way to build an engine for the next YMF. Have you heard any thing more from Sierra about the prototype gear? Again thinking about the one still in the box on the shelf.
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Old 11-29-2007, 09:12 AM
  #4710
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Guys,

You might look at Central Hobbies for 120/150 4c mufflers they have two by NMP that might work well..

http://www.centralhobbies.com/Exhaust/mufflers.html
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Old 11-29-2007, 09:15 AM
  #4711
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Jim-

I'll let you know what I end up doing and how it works. I really only need about another 1/2 to 3/4 inch. As I recall, my friend was having problems at the cylinder end of the header pipe, but it was basically the same problem. I've heard others have had the same problem. As a result, I'm not a big fan of the OS four strokes. I've never had any problems with my Saitos or even with my one Magnum clone of the OS.
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Old 11-29-2007, 09:26 AM
  #4712
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Can someone tell me what the cross section of the aileron link strut on the YMF Classic is (round or streamlined)? I also need ot find out the cross section dimension of the full scale so I can scale it appropriately. Thanks, Mitch WB 100
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Old 11-29-2007, 11:27 AM
  #4713
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Nine O nine

Mitch
Look at page 185, post 4612.. but not sizes...?
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Old 11-29-2007, 12:49 PM
  #4714
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Hi Tony, It looks round but I'm not sure. Still need it's dia. though. Thanks, Mitch WB 100
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Old 11-29-2007, 05:20 PM
  #4715
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Dan, and Jim,

Dan, Use the hinges that you like. I use a mixture of pinned hinges (the flat ones) and I use piano hinge for the ailerons. I have used the Robart hinge points, but they don't look right.

Jim, the cylinders were from the 1/5th Top Flite 9 cylinder Pratt and Whitney radial (vacuum formed) engine. I also cut the long projection off the front of their cam cover. I did not use any other of their parts. The pushrod tubes and the distributor ring are from K&S aluminum tubing. The spark plugs are brass tube, and the wires are wire (solid core). The crankcase is a hair spray can, and the flats are from 1-1/8" wide balsa, filled with spackle to fill the voids.

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Old 11-29-2007, 07:25 PM
  #4716
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Default RE: WACO YMF


Quote:
ORIGINAL: kruzin55

Bill,

Thanks for accepting me into the brotherhood and I appreciate the advice on the wheel pants, but I am not sure I understand what you mean by "sectioned a little over 1/4" from the center of the pants". Did you cut some off to make them narrower? Also, do you hav an engine recommendation for my other two 1/6 scale Wacos. I have an old kit-build that I purchase at our club dinner with an old super tigre .61 and have a new Cox Hobbies ARF in the mail. From what I gather on the forum, most think that the .61 is too small. Would a Saito .91 fit in the cowl.

Also, I read one of your post about a recommendation for dummy engines where you recommended the Williams Brothers 1/5 scale, but I have a heck of a time finding it on their web page. Thanks again.

Chris V.
Chris,

Here are pictures of the Waco wheel pant with a 1/4" section removed from the center. Notice how much tighter it hugs the tire. This is more scale looking than the fat boy wheel pants that the aftermarket offers.

Bill, AMA 4720
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Old 11-29-2007, 08:11 PM
  #4717
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Mitch,

I think that the slave rods are all round. At least I have not seen one that had streamlined slave rods, of course, John can (and will) always prove me wrong. I will hold to the statement that I have never seen one that was not round.

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Old 11-29-2007, 08:32 PM
  #4718
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Mitch,

Checking my other photos of the Aileron corrugations with measurements, the bracket base is about one inch wide compared to the flat section between corrugations (1-11/16” wide)(P1 & P2). The brackets seem to have varied in width a little from plane to plane.

On the YMF Classic, the round connecting tube appears to be wider than the bracket; my guesstimation is the tube is 1/1/4” (+/-) in diameter and appears quite slender compared to the β€œN” Struts (P4). I would say that 7/32” tube would be closest in 1/5th scale, but that anything from 3/16” to ¼” should work.

If you look at the Pica Wing plan Sheet, the streamlined connecting rod is made from 7/16” wide x 5/16” thick stock (full size = 2-3/16” x 1-9/16”). Pg 43, step 10 of the Long Manual says the same.

P1 Measuring the flat sections
P2 Bracket outline (one example) compared to the flats and ribs
P3 Top bracket on YMF Classic NC 14081
P4 YMF Classic NC 14081 taxiing in. Note the thickness of the aileron connecting tube compared to the β€œN” Struts. Also notice the dihedral in the Wings.
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Old 11-29-2007, 08:49 PM
  #4719
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Bill,

I would have to agree that on all the YMFs I have seen (a total of 1, 1987 YMF Classic NC 14081), the connecting rods were round. Other Wacos like the UBF-2, UPF-7, QCF and most other Wacos I have seen (about 40) have streamlined rods. A few Wacos such as the AVN-8 and SRE have concealed linkage to the ailerons in the top wing, the bottom wing does not have ailerons.

P1 Lower end of the connecting rod on UBF-2 NC 2091K, notice this bracket is a little narrower than the outline of the one above. The rest of the connecting rod is similar to the one shown on the Pica Plans.
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Old 11-29-2007, 08:54 PM
  #4720
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Thanks for the info on the connecting rod. I'm working in 30% scale so I'll make mine from 3/8 tubing. Mitch WB 100
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Old 11-29-2007, 09:48 PM
  #4721
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Mitch,

The one that I finished last year also has round tubing for the slave rods.

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Old 11-29-2007, 10:33 PM
  #4722
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Well, I think I may have found my solution for the exhaust extension. I picked up a Macs aluminum extension that just clamps on with a hose clamp. 8 bucks. There were 3 sizes; I went with the smallest 7/16" OD. Photos are attached. Of course I will trim the clamp and the extension to size. I know the muffler looks pretty ugly. I thought about cleaning it, but it will be behind a dummy engine hopefully.
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Old 11-29-2007, 11:42 PM
  #4723
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Default RE: WACO YMF

All,

Back a couple of pages, we were discussing Wacos with enclosed cockpits such as the YPF, ZPF and YMF NC 14687. I have found a photo of another YMF with an enclosed rear cockpit, YMF-5, NC 14082, picture 36 on the NWC site. This Waco seems to have a home brew canopy that is a bit unusual, but the photo does show a good view of the location of the navigation light on the left upper wing.
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Old 11-29-2007, 11:47 PM
  #4724
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: kruzin55

Also, do you hav an engine recommendation for my other two 1/6 scale Wacos. I have an old kit-build that I purchase at our club dinner with an old super tigre .61 and have a new Cox Hobbies ARF in the mail. From what I gather on the forum, most think that the .61 is too small. Would a Saito .91 fit in the cowl.



Chris V.
Chris-

Sorry for the late reply. If you want to see what the Saito .91 looks like in the 1/6 scale cowl, take a look at mine in post #4640 on page 186. A pretty good fit with just the rocker covers sticking out. As mentioned in other posts, I will use an old style Saito muffler with a short extension to exit out the bottom of the cowl.
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Old 11-30-2007, 05:55 AM
  #4725
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: jagnweiner

Well, I think I may have found my solution for the exhaust extension. I picked up a Macs aluminum extension that just clamps on with a hose clamp. 8 bucks. There were 3 sizes; I went with the smallest 7/16" OD. Photos are attached. Of course I will trim the clamp and the extension to size. I know the muffler looks pretty ugly. I thought about cleaning it, but it will be behind a dummy engine hopefully.
A bit of advice (take it or leave it). When you add an exhaust extension, make sure that you baseline the engine before the extension is used. Use a tach, and set the engine for max RPM (without sagging) and then richen the needle so that you lose about 300 RPM at full throttle. Then add the extension, and recheck the engine RPM at the same needle setting. You may find that you lose more power than is acceptable. It is actually possible to gain power too, but I would not bet the farm on it. Make sure that you keep everything else as close as possible. If you can. do the baseline run, and then add the extension, and immediately run the engine for the test. This will keep the weather conditions as close as possible. Be sure not to change the prop either.

Not trying to rain on your parade by suggesting this, but for optium power, 4 stroke exhausts are designed for a certain length from the center line of the exhaust valve to the open end of the pipe. You may drastically change the engine output and not realize what has happened. It's kind of like joining an extra garden hose to the one that you are using. If you notice, you don't have as much water flow as before. All kinds of things come into play here, but harmonic change, pressure delta's and surface tensions are the big ones.

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