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WACO YMF

Old 12-07-2007, 04:10 PM
  #4826
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Here is a little off topic humor for those that have followed this thread.

On the way home from work today I stopped at Home Depot to pick up some light weight spakle that Bill told us about a while back. When the gal behind the register picked the stuff up to scan it, she looked at me with a very puzzled expression and ask "Is there anything in here". It was all I could do to keep from busting out laughing because all I could think about was the comments made earlier in this thread....

Bill, thanks for the info on the bolts sizes for the struts. John, you are our WACO encyclopedia. NC14081 is looking more beautiful every day.
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Old 12-07-2007, 05:58 PM
  #4827
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: RICKSTUBBZ

Here is a little off topic humor for those that have followed this thread.

On the way home from work today I stopped at Home Depot to pick up some light weight spakle that Bill told us about a while back. When the gal behind the register picked the stuff up to scan it, she looked at me with a very puzzled expression and ask "Is there anything in here". It was all I could do to keep from busting out laughing because all I could think about was the comments made earlier in this thread....

Bill, thanks for the info on the bolts sizes for the struts. John, you are our WACO encyclopedia. NC14081 is looking more beautiful every day.

Told Ya..... John is the only member of the Brotherhood who holds an office. He is the official Waco Brotherhood Historian. Can't run for any other office, can't be voted out, can't resign. He holds the permanent postion. He wasn't elected, he was annointed.

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Old 12-07-2007, 09:14 PM
  #4828
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Gentlemen, I bought a 1/6 scale Platt waco that was framed up at a swap meet recently. I got it home and surveyed what I had and was a little sad. The poor old airplane had lived a hard life and never even got finished. I found this thread and asked for plans, and was referred to the PDF files. I also recieved a nice note from Dan Hudson who offered me a set of used plans and shipped them to me at no cost. Thanks to the several people who answered my initial request fopr information. I feel much better about the project now that I have some info and support. The wings were both broke/seperated at the joint to the center section so I have unsheeted the top of both centersections. I glued the pieces back together and am adding a splice plate on the main spar at all four locations. I will proceed from here. I have attached some photos.
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Old 12-07-2007, 09:34 PM
  #4829
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jplaneman
Looks like you are going to have a great plane. Any problems you can not find answers for or solve just ask. A lot of good information here just take time to find it . Welcome aboard and good luck with your Waco
Larry K
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Old 12-07-2007, 09:36 PM
  #4830
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jplaneman, if you have not thought about it, you may want to consider using two servos in the lower wing instead of the single with push rods and bell cranks! Good luck with your 1/6 scale.
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Old 12-07-2007, 09:37 PM
  #4831
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Hey Larry, good to see you posting. Hope your doing OK !
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Old 12-07-2007, 09:49 PM
  #4832
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Jplaneman,

When joining the wings back together with the center section, replace those short little wing joiners (w-11) with much longer ones that start in the center and go 3 ribs into each panel. This is a weak point in the original Platt design and continued by the Pica Co. in both the 1/6th and 1/5th scale kits. Many happy flights.

Your cowl is assembled (blisters glued on) to represent a UMF, Continental powered, with paired blisters. The YMF has evenly spaced blisters for the Jacobs engine. It may make a difference if you are going to scale out a paint scheme.

If you haven't gone to the House of Moy, http://www.houseofmoy.com/waco/ , the manuals for the Pica Wacos are there and apply to both sizes except for some dimensions given. The short manual has most of the upgrades/revisions that the Brotherhood has come up with, the long manual is more step by step and is being revised.
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Old 12-07-2007, 11:00 PM
  #4833
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John, Thanks for the info on the UPF-7 landing gear. photos were great-you're THE MAN!! I just need to make a functional gear setup that looks close to the original. I'm not trying for competition scale, just close and functional. I was commissioned to build the kit for a friend and thought, if I have to build one, I might as well duplicate it and build a second one. (Why build 1 when you can have 2 at twice the price!)
Bill, I don't expect you to be right all the time. You've given so much already that you have some free passes!! Thanks for all you do.
I'm thinking of using a G26 to power this plane, but I'm open to suggestions. Any building/modification considerations that I need to know about if I do the gas engine?
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Old 12-07-2007, 11:26 PM
  #4834
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Jplaneman

Don't be sad at the shape your Waco is in do the repairs and you will love it. I bought a Carl Goldberg ultimate in the same shape your Waco is in and it turn out to be my favorite plane. Just take your time and have fun youll be flying be for you know it.
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Old 12-08-2007, 12:24 AM
  #4835
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yel914--Be sure and post some pics of your UPF build. I also have an Ikon UPF kit, haven't started it yet, and would appreciate your thoughts on how it builds. From the looks of the plan, the airframe should be plenty strong for a gas engine, but I plan to solidly reinforce the firewall-to-fuse attachment. Given the performance of my 1/5 scale, 18-1/2 pound UMF with a G-26, it should be a great engine for the UPF also; I'm using the magneto version and it starts pretty easily, but I may try the EI version next time. My Fuji with EI is ridiculously easy to start.
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Old 12-08-2007, 04:35 AM
  #4836
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Yel915,
How recently were your kits bought from IKON N'West??? I too will be interested in how your build goes with these kits.
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Old 12-08-2007, 06:13 AM
  #4837
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The IKON kit is about 10 years old, I'll look for a date. I would call the quality about average really. The wire gear supplied is a bit inconsistant in dimension. Balsa stock is OK. This IKON build is on the heals of a Bruce Tharpe Venture 60 so I suppose I've been spoiled for life
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Old 12-08-2007, 06:44 AM
  #4838
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You have one of Emil's kits. They are a great place to start. Make sure that you check the wood for consistency. My Ikon build wound up being one of just using what came in the box as templates, and cutting my own. Worked out pretty well though, The model is a bunch of years old and still looks and flies just as well as on the first flight. Emil drew an mean set of plans, but more like a working sketch. They are all on the money for scale outline though. The one in the picture is the Corben Super Ace.

Bill, AMA 4720
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Old 12-08-2007, 09:40 PM
  #4839
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John,

What diameter AT-6 spinner did we decide would be correct for the fifth scale? Was it the 2.75" or the 2.5" I can't remember to save my life.

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Old 12-09-2007, 01:09 AM
  #4840
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Bill,

Doing a little measuring of the SRE front view photo and a little calculating, I came up with a 2.75" spinner, AT-6 style.

On a related note while talking to Joe at Waco Classic Aircraft, he related that the YMF Classic, NC 14081, has a constant speed prop (Hamilton I think) and the spinner is from a Cessna 195. It also has the enlarged cowl due to the prop not moving much air thru the engine. What's enlarged on the cowl, you ask? It has a slightly larger rear diameter, less than 2" total (he didn't remember exactly), than the standard for better cooling. The front remains the same and tapers evenly to the rear diameter. Not noticable unless you are looking hard for it. About 3/8" or less in 1/5th scale.

Most of the YMFs from WCA have the wooden Sensenich props, no spinner and the standard cowl.
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Old 12-09-2007, 06:41 AM
  #4841
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: skylarkmk1

Bill,

Doing a little measuring of the SRE front view photo and a little calculating, I came up with a 2.75" spinner, AT-6 style.

On a related note while talking to Joe at Waco Classic Aircraft, he related that the YMF Classic, NC 14081, has a constant speed prop (Hamilton I think) and the spinner is from a Cessna 195. It also has the enlarged cowl due to the prop not moving much air thru the engine. What's enlarged on the cowl, you ask? It has a slightly larger rear diameter, less than 2" total (he didn't remember exactly), than the standard for better cooling. The front remains the same and tapers evenly to the rear diameter. Not noticable unless you are looking hard for it. About 3/8" or less in 1/5th scale.

Most of the YMFs from WCA have the wooden Sensenich props, no spinner and the standard cowl.

But ya gotta admit.............It sure looks great. Wonder how hard it's gonna be to pull a tapered cowl from aluminum????? I suppose that one uses the blisters as well. I always wanted to learn to hammer aluminum into the shape that I wanted. It sure would be different.

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Old 12-09-2007, 09:02 AM
  #4842
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Bill,

Did a little digging and found the sister ship to NC 14081 with a standard cowl.

P1 1987 YMF Classic, s/n F5-009, NC 14081 with enlarge cowl, rear edge is slightly larger than the fuselage.

P2 1987 YMF Classic, s/n F5-010, NC 954JD with standard cowl, rear edge is about the same diameter as the fuselage.

P3 NC 144081 from a similar view to P2, difference is harder to see
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Old 12-09-2007, 09:27 AM
  #4843
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Gentleman
I got the wing splice in the top wing and thought I would see how the aircraft measured when assembled. Aircraft is very plum and true, and I am amazed at how strong the assembled structure is. I am much happier with my $20.00 airplane now that I have done some cleanup and measuring.
John A Pearce
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Old 12-09-2007, 09:36 AM
  #4844
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jplaneman,

Glad you are making progress and are happy with your plane.

All,

Good News. The American Waco Club site is back up, http://www.americanwacoclub.com/ . If you want to become a member, contact them via regular mail at;

AWC
28415 Springbrook Drive
Lawton, MI 49065

Phone: 269-624-6490

Dues are $35 a year and you do not have to own a full size (or even a model of a) Waco. The membership form is at the far right of the web page to print out, fill and mail.
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Old 12-09-2007, 09:45 AM
  #4845
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: skylarkmk1

Bill,

Did a little digging and found the sister ship to NC 14081 with a standard cowl.

P1 1987 YMF Classic, s/n F5-009, NC 14081 with enlarge cowl, rear edge is slightly larger than the fuselage.

P2 1987 YMF Classic, s/n F5-010, NC 954JD with standard cowl, rear edge is about the same diameter as the fuselage.

P3 NC 144081 from a similar view to P2, difference is hsrder to see
One sure would look good with an aluminum cowl.

Bill, AMA 4720
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Old 12-09-2007, 01:40 PM
  #4846
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Just thought I would share photos of my OS 160 exhaust system and round aileron link struts. This is the Cox ARF. It is my first, and I think last, ARF. I am too particular to live with things I don’t like. Have a ton of hours in it over the last three months. Reworking the inside of the nose it like building a ship in a bottle. (I know, the ship is built outside the bottle but is still a real pain to do.)

The exhaust pipes are made from chrome plated 3/8” copper faucet line purchased from the big orange store. (Thanks for the tip Bill) It took a few tries to get them bent in a workable shape. I have an assortment of tubing benders and finally figured out how to get the tight bends without kinking this tubing. I used copper pipe hanger strap to make the brackets that are silver-soldered to the pipes and fastened to hard points on the firewall. The pipes are a close slip fit over the OS exhaust stubs and the engine is free to move a little without any additional stress from the self-supported extensions.

When I checked incidences I found that with the bottom wing at zero, the top wing was also at zero, but with a ½ degree twist on the right side that resulted in wash-in. After a day of shimming and trimming struts and cabanes the top wing is now at –1 degree from one end to the other. The stabilizer is at +1 degree. As a result of these “adjustments” and my kit aileron struts were at their limit for length adjustment. I decided to go with round links. They are made from a Sullivan golden rod ribbed core and sleeved with 3/16” brass tubing. The brass tubing does not carry any load and is held in place with a few dabs of epoxy applied to the rod when sliding it in. It only serves to keep the push rod straight and add diameter to the link. Picture shows one assembled and one ready to be. They will be painted to match the covering.

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Old 12-09-2007, 02:03 PM
  #4847
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John,
Glad to hear that the guy that started your WACO was a better builer than the guy who started mine. If you haven't, you may want to be sure and check both wings and the H-stab incidence. Now is the time to get the wings and stab in proper relationship to one another.
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Old 12-09-2007, 08:05 PM
  #4848
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Jim, I leveled the aircraft fore and aft from the horizontal stab plate(the only flat spot I could find on the airplane), and the wins are both within a 1/16 of an inch of being level. T top wing shows a 2 degree positive angle of incidence. I had the top skin off of the lower win so I couldn't get an incidence reading, but the interplane struts fit and a measurement from various points on both wings to the table are very consistant. I'll check it all again when I get the wings finished. I also took out the belcrank system for the ailerons and have laid out an individual servo system. Thanks for the input, and if you see anything wrong with the readings I am getting please don't hesitate to mention it.
John A. Pearce
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Old 12-09-2007, 08:51 PM
  #4849
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John,
Sounds like the frame is good and square, If I may suggest, level the fuselage by setting the datum line (the crutch) of the fuselage where it is level. I used some scrap balsa wedged against the crutch to set a small torpedo level on. Once you have the fuse in your fixture and get it shimmed level, mark where and how much you had to shim the fuse to get the crutch level. Once you get the crutch level, then check the incidence on the stabilizer, when you get the stab at +2 degrees then set the wings. I guess what I am trying to say is once you get the crutch level and the stab at +2 degrees, then when you get ready to check the wings, your fixture should always place the fuselage at zero ( H-Stab at +2)
I had quite an ordeal getting this one where the incidence was correct, and as was indicated in this thread, the only way to get the incidence correct was to use the crutch as the datum line.
Hope I haven't made this more confusing than it should be..
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Old 12-09-2007, 08:54 PM
  #4850
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I have been working on the plane some this weekend, and I have been doing a little wool-gathering, and have about decided that I can put the actual fuel tank in the scale location. I am running a Walbro carb, so head pressure is not an issue. I think that I can get about 18 ounces in a brass tank that will mount in the top wing center, and the hold down straps and the stiffeners will actually give some extra strength to the wing assembly. I can use some tubing (like scale) and use neoprene tubing to connect the tank to the lines (one on each side connecting to a Y in the fuselage). The only down side is that I don't think I'll be able to do any negative G manuvers, since I don't want to put a clunk in the tank and risk the tubing connecting the clunk getting rotten and coming off the pickup line. I suppose that I could make an inspection hatch in the tank and seal it with a neoprene gasket. Any ideas? This would eliminate some nose weight, and make the fuel load more balance neutral. Give me some thoughts here.

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