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Thread: WACO YMF


  1. #4976
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    RE: WACO YMF

    Thanks!

    Uh, Get through WHAT in two weeks? Never mind, I just remembered what I said. It'll probably take me a lot longer than that to read all 199 pages, but I'll savor the flavor. It's all WACOs (mostly), so it's all good!

    I think the 1/6th scale PICA is pretty close to being the right size. Wouldn't a Saito 100 single fly that fairly well? I haven't checked the recommended engine range on that one yet, and I think the 1/5th is going to need a small gasser at least, by my guestimate. My Hog Bipe had a 54" span and ran a Saito .91 at 8.5 lbs and did a real nice job of it, even muscled through some maneuvers nicely. They say the Saito 100 is lighter and stronger than the .91. I'll have to look into that. I have two of them on my shelf, and that's about as big a model as I want to keep around from now on. As was mentioned, I had everything stolen, so I want to keep everything close to home and safe. Transportation and storage are extremely relevent to what I get from now on. Plus, I have to move all of it back to San Antonio in the next year or so. ("Ahhh, honey, we'll just leave that new sofa here in the yard and that should make enough room for my big Bipe!!")

    The WACO Brotherhood...brings a tear to my eye... I actually feel cool. Gee, I've gotta change my signature line now!!

    Jim
    J.M. Surra, author of AERODYNAMIC and
    T.I.T.O.R. - In early July of 1947, something crashed in Roswell, New Mexico. . .

  2. #4977
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    RE: WACO YMF

    (Mainer Jim)—Jim,
    Welcome aboard. It took me at least a month to get through the whole thread. But, it was worth every minute of it.
    Rick, AMA 115812-WACO Brotherhood #75
    To discover something better....You must be willing to try something different

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    RE: WACO YMF

    Jim (SuperCubMan)
    Your building three? All at once? I thought I remembered you mentioning a while back -- two. I also had to flip back and forth a couple of times, but I see you have one landing gear that is after market and one your scratch building. Looking good.
    Rick, AMA 115812-WACO Brotherhood #75
    To discover something better....You must be willing to try something different

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    RE: WACO YMF

    Jim,

    Dick Pettit flew the one sixth version on the Saito .82 and reported it as being grossly overpowered. You will have to let the rocker boxes (and probably more) hang out in the breeze. There is no way to keep the Saito inside the cowl. You will find one of my fifth scale versions with an O.S. 160 Twin. The new one (under construction) is using the G-62. All fit inside the cowl except for the plug and plug wire on the gasser. Maybe something like the O.S. 70 4 stroke would be a better choice for the small one. If you look around, you just might find a fifth scale for sale.

    Bill, AMA 4720
    WACO Brotherhood #1
    Its easy, just glue all the pieces together, and sand off everything that doesnt look like an airplane.

  5. #4980
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    RE: WACO YMF

    Jim,

    The 1/6th Pica and Cox Wacos have a wingspan of 60" and the Pica plans indicate a .60 engine for power, Cox suggest .60 2s or .90-1.20 4s. The Pica profile of the .60 is a 2 stoke as would be appropriate for the time this plane was designed. Cox indicates a weight between 7.5 to 8.5 lbs. As Bill indicated, anything from a .70 4s (enough) to the 1.00 4s (probably overpowered) would be ok for the 1/6th Waco. I think Dick Pettits report was in RC Report, but I am not sure of the issue. The Cox Waco is based on the Pica Waco but the construction is different and has some deviations from scale.

    If you haven't found it yet, The House of Moy http://www.houseofmoy.com/waco/ is the supplemental site with PDF files of both sizes of Pica Plans and .dxf and .jpeg files of the templates. The templates will have to be scaled to fit correctly and they don't print out to the correct size directly.
    John F Howard (aka skylarkmk1)
    AMA 10955, WACO Brotherhood #26, AWC, NWC

  6. #4981
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    RE: WACO YMF

    I have some new Saito 72 4-strokes on my shelf too. I'll have to look at the review Dick did on the smaller one. Anybody have a link to it if it's on the web? If the 1/6th scale is overpowered with an .82 and a 60" wingspan, I wonder if the 1/5th scale with a 72" span would be badly UNDERpowered with a Saito 100 or if it would have enough to do a few things and stay out of trouble. Obviously still some researching to do here.. I feel like one of these could be what I'm looking for. If it's the smaller one, I'm gonna HAVE to peel it and do it in a white with red theme. The blue absolutely does nothing for me, the white and red lights me up every time I see one.

    Why are these UMFs rather than YMFs? I'll probably find many of my answers when I read the 198 pages.....

    Jim
    J.M. Surra, author of AERODYNAMIC and
    T.I.T.O.R. - In early July of 1947, something crashed in Roswell, New Mexico. . .

  7. #4982
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    RE: WACO YMF

    I bought one of the last few Cox 1/6 scale Picas and plan on installing a new Saito 100. I read the forum and received some good advice from Bill and Khodes. I also talked to the tech rep at Horizon and Cox. Horizon indicated the Saito 100 was about the same size, but much better than the Saito 91. Cox recommended going with the Saito 100. I also have a 1/5 scale Pica kit that I found on the internet partially built with a Zenoah G38 gasser installed. I plan on selling the G38 and installing a Zenoah G26EI. Anyway thats the plan, we'll see if I have made a mistake this spring.
    Chris V, AMA #866637
    WACO Brotherhood #83

  8. #4983
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    RE: WACO YMF

    Okay, I have done my homework and I don't need to know why these are actually UMFs..they have evenly spaced pairs of bumps on the cowls on the UMFs.

    The more I look at the 1/5th scale, the more it looks like the Saito 100 would do an adequate job of flying it.

    Jim
    J.M. Surra, author of AERODYNAMIC and
    T.I.T.O.R. - In early July of 1947, something crashed in Roswell, New Mexico. . .

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    RE: WACO YMF

    ORIGINAL: RICKSTUBBZ

    Jim (SuperCubMan)
    Your building three? All at once? I thought I remembered you mentioning a while back -- two. I also had to flip back and forth a couple of times, but I see you have one landing gear that is after market and one your scratch building. Looking good.
    Ha! No I'm only building one!! I have two other friends who are also building and I ordered the 3 sets of cowls and pants for us! I just wanted any skeptics to see that the cowls are being produced and to get their orders in soon! They are well done and worth the price. I ordered them as soon as I heard that Jay had sent the model to Brad.
    As far as gear is concerned, I made a rough set to hold the aircraft while I worked on it. I've now got the final gear in the works - but lots to do on it yet and in the end I might not be happy with them. But scratch building is partly experimental any way and that's what I'm doing with the gear. My friends will all be taking their own route through the build. We've decided on separate colors but that's all!
    Jim, MAAC #5343
    WACO Brotherhood #56

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    RE: WACO YMF

    Jim,

    Aerofiles http://aerofiles.com/_waco.html has the Waco code dissected.

    U= Continental Engine - Paired bumps on cowl

    Y= Jacobs Engine - Even spaced bumps on cowl

    On power for the 1/5th, Bill likes the power of the 160 twin, other have used 120s or the gas 26 size.
    John F Howard (aka skylarkmk1)
    AMA 10955, WACO Brotherhood #26, AWC, NWC

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    RE: WACO YMF

    Jim,

    I know that John has already given you the answer, but here it goes again. The YMF used the Jacobs engine, and this engine got the evenly spaced blisters on the cowling. The UMF got the Continental engine, which gave you the paired blisters. The new cowling from Stan's Fibertech is the first time that we know of where a scale YMF cowl has been available. In the past, you had to set your own cowl up to be correct. You can see some of these hand done cowls throughout the thread. I have done a bunch of them, and I'm happy that I never have to do that again. It's tons of hours, and little return.

    To be able to handle the fifth scale, you would really need to put the model on a diet for the 100 to handle it. The 160 flies the model with good authority, but there are some 120 size engines that produce more power than the 160 twin, but none in the size range makes that much, "Pretty", noise. The 100 won't handle an 18" diameter prop either, and anything smaller does not look right.

    Bill, AMA 4720
    WACO Brotherhood #1
    Its easy, just glue all the pieces together, and sand off everything that doesnt look like an airplane.

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    RE: WACO YMF

    Krustygun--just picked up on the Waco thread. What a small world we live in. In 1976, while teaching at the University of Tromso in northern Norway, I bought Dave Platt's Waco YMF3 and started building it to preserve my sanity during the dark winters we had up there. I got it framed up, and on floats (which I bought in England and which were made for a Supermarine) and then moved back to my little farm in Oregon where the unfinished model languished in my attic for thirty years with the balsa getting brittle. Two weeks ago, right before I left for Norway, I gave it to the head of the model flying club in Salem, Oregon, to finish for me while I sit over here pretending to be a writer and keeping the wife happy. Two months ago I bought a Saito 90 radial for it off the RC Universe used-engine forum. It fits perfectly under the cowling. Platt specified a 45-60 engine for the kit, but with the floats I'm certain it will take a lot more horsepower. After reading through everybody's posts on the topic though I'm wondering if even the 90 radial is big enough. It's basically equivalent to a 60 two-cycle, as I understand. I asked the builder to finish it in the colors on the front of the box, blue and yellow. The decals in the box had all faded, but the builder said he had a friend who could scan and recut them from new material. With the radial I'm hoping I won't have a CG problem, as the engine weighs 31 ounces with the exhaust ring that came with it. At the moment I'm trying to bring myself up to speed on a radio. I'm 68 and a lot of water has passed under the bridge since I stopped work on the model. Am looking at the seven-channel 2.4 Spektrum and Futaba. I could really use some advice here. Was also trying to find a 1/6th scale cockpit for the plane when I came across this thread. Any advice you can pass on to me that I can pass on to the builder would certainly be appreciated. I basically want the model finished as a hangar queen, but I don't know how detailed I should get, since I also want to fly it. Dick

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    RE: WACO YMF

    Dick,

    I believe that your WACO is the 60" span version. That would make it the 1/6th scale, and your engine should fly that model with no problems. Having said that, you did say that yours was on floats, so all my thinking is out the window. You could probably get the plane to fly with that engine with the floats attached, but you will probably be at near full throttle at all times. It will depend on the thrust to weight ratio that you have. I don't know how much prop that engine will accept, but I would be willing to bet that someone here on the thread will have some experience with that engine. Best of luck with it, and sorry about you being in the Frozen North.
    Have fun.

    Bill, AMA 4720
    WACO Brotherhood #1
    Its easy, just glue all the pieces together, and sand off everything that doesnt look like an airplane.

  14. #4989

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    RE: WACO YMF

    I agree with Stickbuilder.Its no fun flying an underpowered monoplane never mind a biplane! I own a Saito 100 and several others.I think they are one of the best engines on the market.The 100 is a powerhouse but its too small in this case.

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    RE: WACO YMF

    skylarkmk1

    Good Morning John,

    I have checked the Staples plans copies per your recommendation and they are right on in every respect. Thanks for the recommendations re the mods.

    I found my 1/6 cockpit kit and ordered the color instrument decal sheet from JTEC. Thanks for that contact. Which brings me to the subject of installing a cockpit (kit or scratch). At what point in the construction of the fuse should this be done? The manual doesn't address this point. I can't imagine doing it after the fuse is complete, certainly not with hands the size of mine. ??

    BTW, RCU assigns a login name on the basis of a single email address. I use two addresses...one at home and one at work. So...don't be surprised to hear from red 1a...that's my home login.

    How does one (can one ?) print a single post from this thread ?

    red 1 (aka red 1a, Don Borton)
    AMA IMAA
    WACo Brotherhood #72

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    RE: WACO YMF

    Don (RED1)
    The easiest way I know to print a single post is to copy it then paste it into word. Then you can print it, save it and so on. If the post contains pictures that you want they would have to be done seperatly. (hold the left mouse button down- drag across the entire message- once everything you want is highlighted- press Ctrl & C at the same time. Open "word" then press Ctrl & V at the same time- whala,, it should paste.)
    Rick, AMA 115812-WACO Brotherhood #75
    To discover something better....You must be willing to try something different

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    RE: WACO YMF

    Rick,

    Thanks. I'll give it a try one of these days.


    Don

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    RE: WACO YMF

    Mainer Jim-- Welcome to the machine! You e-mailed me a while back, I believe, although I can't remember why. You included a picture of you on your lawn with the ocean, bay, whatever, behind you.

    I believe you'll be disappointed with the performance of a 1.00 Saito in the 1/5 scale version, but it would certainly be plenty in the 1/6, probably too much. I had the old Sportsman Aviation 1/6 UPF with the 1.00 in it, and it would go out of sight straight up. I believe the 1.25 would fly the 1/5 scale, though. Same physical dimensions as the 1.00, substantially more power, but still on the lower side of the power range. This plane begs for a big prop, a 16 at least. If you don't add much weight with details, a G-20 gas will fly it, and the G-26 is perfect, especially if you weigh it down with details like I did.

    Gettin' close to #200 page. Who's gonna be first?
    Club Saito #2, WACO Brotherhood #20. What other trouble can I get into?

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    RE: WACO YMF


    ORIGINAL: red1

    How does one (can one ?) print a single post from this thread ?

    red 1 (aka red 1a, Don Borton)
    AMA IMAA
    WACo Brotherhood #72
    Red1 you simply highlight the text you want to print. Then RIGHT click on it and a small window should come up . In that window click on print. When your print screen comes up click on "Selection" then click on print and it should print what you highlighted! This is assuming you are using Windows XP and a current common name printer. To highlight, hold down Ctrl and run your mouse over the lines you want.
    Hope this helps. I print stuff like that all the time!!
    Jim, MAAC #5343
    WACO Brotherhood #56

  20. #4995
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    RE: WACO YMF

    khodges, Sounds like the photo of my lady and I standing in front of Mount Katahdin here in Maine, there's a lake between us and the mountain in that photo. I don't remember why I wrote you either, although I have a very close friend named Kevin Hodges, who I doubt would ever have the patience to fly planes. I've been diligently researching all sizes and types of birds while restocking my hangar after being stripped of them by burglars, doubtless it was relevent to that.
    As far as the WACOs go, I'm sorely tempted to get a 1/5th scale version, but I promised myself that I wouldn't restock my hanger with any more giants. Still, it's a WACO, and if ever there was a plane that should be the exception, that is the one. Then of course comes the other questions: kit or ARF, gas, glow, electric? I almost have to say that if I built a 72" WACO like this 1/5th scale that I'd want gas so I could fly it a LOT. I was drooling over the Genesis built-up WACOs, but I'd have to sell a Laser (Medical, not an airplane) and then not tell my wife, and then there's the explanation of why a four or five-thousand dollar built and covered biplane just appeared in my shop..... No, better to live to fly another day, methinks. Not that I would think I have time to build one, but is there a 1/5th scale kit available? I like the ARF, has it gotten good reviews by the guys?

    Jim
    J.M. Surra, author of AERODYNAMIC and
    T.I.T.O.R. - In early July of 1947, something crashed in Roswell, New Mexico. . .

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    RE: WACO YMF

    Jim,

    Check on e-bay. There are usually some (maybe one) to be found there. If that fails, you can always download the manual from the house of moy site, and order the plans and the parts templates from the AMA plans service, cut your own kit, and you will be ready to go. If that fails, I can always cut a kit for you. You will still need to order the plans. I don't want to get in the kit cutting business, but I would do it for you.

    Bill, WACO Brother #1
    Its easy, just glue all the pieces together, and sand off everything that doesnt look like an airplane.

  22. #4997
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    RE: WACO YMF

    I trial fitted the K&S airfoiled tubing for the Cabanes tonight. I'm using the 5/8" size, and it looks about right. I have a long way to go before I final fit these parts. It seems as if this one is taking forever to do. I thought the last one (the red one) took a while, but I have been on this one longer, and I'm not half finished with it. I guess it is all the modifications that is taking so long. It was one year ago that I posted the first pictures of the red one on this thread. Time flies.

    Bill, AMA 4720
    WACO Brotherhood #1
    Its easy, just glue all the pieces together, and sand off everything that doesnt look like an airplane.

  23. #4998
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    RE: WACO YMF











    Its easy, just glue all the pieces together, and sand off everything that doesnt look like an airplane.

  24. #4999
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    RE: WACO YMF

    Bill.

    I also bought the K&S airfoiled tubing, but I did't think it looked good, at least that size, may be the one size smaller.
    This is why I want to go to the Creve Coour air show, to get close and personal with the real thing. Looking at pictures is ok but not as good as having the real thing.

    Angel
    B 58
    SO MANY WACOS, SO LITTLE TIME.......

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    RE: WACO YMF


    ORIGINAL: Mainer_Jim

    Not that I would think I have time to build one, but is there a 1/5th scale kit available? I like the ARF, has it gotten good reviews by the guys?

    Jim
    If you really want a nice one, find the time and build it. The plans and templates available from AMA are the original Pica, the one most of the guys here are building (1/5 scale). If you really don't have the time to build, the Cox ARF flies well, but out of the box has some unacceptable (for the true Waco purist, IMO) scale departures, even though it was designed from the Pica version. Wingtips are wrong, top wing dihedral starts in the middle rather than at the cabanes, the front cockpit is absent, little surface detail, landing gear is......not quite right, tailwheel is typical ARF wire. The cowl is not quite true, sort of flattened on bottom. The airframe and wing construction is pretty solid, though. If you want to dink around with making a few (or several) changes, you can have a fairly nice looking plane without having to frame up the structure. I have posted all the mods I made to my ARF in pages gone by on this thread.

    If I remember correctly, you live on an island off the coast, right? If not, I'm thinking of somebody else, but it seemed he had a username with "Maine" in it. Beautiful country up there, my last motorcycle trip before I quit riding was in that area. Stayed in a B&B in Camden, rode up around Deer Isle and Acadia. I used to backpack sections of the A.T. down here in N.C. and always wanted to start walking and stop when I got to Katahdin. Never did it back then, now too old and decrepit, the knees and back would never take it
    Club Saito #2, WACO Brotherhood #20. What other trouble can I get into?


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