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Thread: WACO YMF


  1. #5251

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    RE: WACO YMF

    Heck, my 1/4 scale UPF uses 1/16" balsa ribs, don't sweat the rib thickness, they're only there to streamline the spars and stop the top and bottom of the wing from touching. Use nice light 1/4 grain 3/32 if you can't find any nice 1/16".
    Evan, WB #12.

  2. #5252
    RCBOATMANIAC's Avatar
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    RE: WACO YMF

    ORIGINAL: Stickbuilder


    ORIGINAL: RCBOATMANIAC


    ORIGINAL: Stickbuilder

    ORIGINAL: RCBOATMANIAC

    Question just out of curiousity what is the difference between a YMF-3 and a YMF-5 I see people talking about both so I was wanting to find out what is so different about them if anything at all. Thanks Dave
    The YMF 5 has a larger tail group. Most people think that the 5 had more luxurious appointments. These planes were built one at a time, and the owner could pretty much order whatever he/she wanted. Most of the people who have built this model either in kit or ARF form don't realize that they have not built a YMF in the first place. The vast majority of all the kits and ARF's have been the UMF variant. Even the so-called expert magazine editors/authors. Until about a month ago, you couldn't even buy a YMF cowl. Now, thanks to damifino and Brad, we have them available to all of us.

    Bill, AMA 4720
    WACO Brotherhood #1
    Thanks Bill, like I was saying earlier I was seeing a lot said about the two planes, but never knew what the difference was between them. So if I get the plans from AMA plan #35406 it is a true WACO YMF-5 version with the large tail group. So in your opinion what would be a good power house for the 1/5 scale (gas engine) plane I don't want to go with a nitro engine to much of a mess to clean up at the end of the day. Dave
    If you will notice, Dave, I'm using the Zenoah G-26 in my current build. The evolution 36 will fit as well, but probably would be serious overkill. I would stick with one of the, "Name", engines such as Fuji-Imvac or the Zenoah. Some of the guys here in the RCU forums like the Berelli as well, but I don't know about the availability of replacement parts for this engine. Bearings and seals are off the shelf items at any bearing house, and Walbro Carbs can be had at the local lawn mower shop. Piston rings can be custom ground, so that leaves the cylinder/head, and the crankshaft and crankcase. As I said, I could have bought any engine that I wanted for mine (including a 572 C.I. Big Block Chevy), but I selected the G-26.

    By what did you retire as?

    Bill, AMA 4720
    WACO Brotherhood #1

    I retired as a second class - should have been an E-6, but do to some unseen circumstances and 18 months from retirement busted to an E-5, my lawyer said that being a male in the military in the 90's you don't have a chance because of the co'ed situations aboard ships there words weigh more than yours at least my lawyer saved everything for me except the pay grade, but any how Retired Machinist Mate second class (sw) USN Dave


    Dave, WACO BROTHERHOOD #88/Club Saito #576
    Happiness: Smell of burnt nitro in the air linked to a high speed boat.

  3. #5253

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    RE: WACO YMF

    Bill,
    I thought you would have tossed the Zenoah by now and shoe-horned in a 400 Moki, after all, isn't that what you really want? The 150 RCS is going to be a close fit in the YKS, 10" engine in a 10 1/2" cowl.
    Harry J
    Waco Brotherhood Lucky #13

  4. #5254

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    RE: WACO YMF

    ORIGINAL: RICKSTUBBZ

    Ken (Khodges) Were you able to finish up the shop?
    Sorry it took so long to respond. I had kind of let things sit over Xmas. There's still a good deal of organizing all the accumulated junk, but here's the basic setup. Building table in the foreground is 4 x 7 feet, lots of shelves with space to park a few models. Another couple of tables in back against the wall, for working on smaller pieces, engines, etc. I'm going to hang a couple more fluorescent lights to brighten up the big table. I brought my bandsaw and scrollsaw up from the barn, I have room for them now, and they were getting rusty and grungy in the barn.

    Dave, good to have you in the 'Hood. Like Bill said, the G-26 is a good choice for the 1/5 scale. Fits in the cowl, some minimal trimming for the spark plug and Pitts muffler, but balanced well without added weight up front. Mine's powered with a -26 turning an 18-6 prop. Stingy on gas, too, a 16 oz tank is plenty big for 15+ minute flights.
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    Club Saito #2, WACO Brotherhood #20. What other trouble can I get into?

  5. #5255
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    RE: WACO YMF

    Ken,

    Great to see you back. I have been messing around with servo placements, and I think that I am going to need to build yet another hatch in the fuse bottom right behind the wing saddle. I may end up with one long hatch that serves as the entire rear fuselage bottom. Otherwise, I will have three small hatches back there. If I am going to scale out the cockpit, I need all the depth that is available, and that precludes any control rods running through the cockpit. What do you think? I would end up with the servos for the rudder pull-pull, the elevator, the horizontal stab, and the tail wheel, all mounted right behind the wing. Obviously the throttle servo will go in the normal spot, and the wing mounted servo's will all be in whatever arrangement that is required for the scale bellcrank driven ailerons, and a micro servo for the landing light. (buy stock in Hi-Tec).

    Bill, AMA 4720
    WACO Brotherhood #1
    Its easy, just glue all the pieces together, and sand off everything that doesnt look like an airplane.

  6. #5256
    WacoNut's Avatar
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    RE: WACO YMF

    Has anyone thought of making the top wing in 3 pieces?? That would allow you to leave the top center section attached to the cabanes at all times and just remove the outer panels. I would still leave the bottom wing as one piece but I would think this would make it easier to transport and setup at the field. Another advantage to doing this is that you could detail out the cabane area better if you made the top center setion a permenate mount.
    Any thoughts here??
    Anthony
    WACO Brother #30 Cub Brother #17
    It's not the hours you put in It's what you put into the hours.

  7. #5257
    RICKSTUBBZ's Avatar
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    RE: WACO YMF


    ORIGINAL: khodges

    ORIGINAL: RICKSTUBBZ

    Ken (Khodges) Were you able to finish up the shop?
    .... but here's the basic setup. Building table in the foreground is 4 x 7 feet, lots of shelves with space to park a few models. Another couple of tables in back against the wall, for working on smaller pieces, engines, etc. I'm going to hang a couple more fluorescent lights to brighten up the big table. I brought my bandsaw and scrollsaw up from the barn, I have room for them now, and they were getting rusty and grungy in the barn.

    ...
    Ken,
    Without a doubt you have some room to work. I like the touch of the rubber powered free flighter taking center stage. I know what you mean about the saws getting trashed being in the barn. I am dealing with that same issue for all of my junk and tools. But that is a huge project for another day. I don't see any of your birds hanging? I use to hang all of mine. Albiet they were 40 and 60 size birds. I Made saddles out of shoe strings to wrap under the fuse and wings. Kept them safe and out of the way.
    By the way, Have you decided on which project to do next?
    Rick, AMA 115812-WACO Brotherhood #75
    To discover something better....You must be willing to try something different

  8. #5258

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    RE: WACO YMF

    Anthony, I am going to build my UBF that way. I am in the process of drawing all the parts in CorelDraw. When complete Laser Lizard will cut them for me using the .cdr file format. I am considering doing the bottom wing that way also. My plan is to construct the plane very similar to the Genesis Waco. As I draw parts I export them into SolidWorks, this lets me see a 3D view of the assemblies. I spend as mush time learning SW and correcting mistakes as I do drawing. But I'll get there someday!.
    Skinny Bob - AMA 713081
    WACO Brotherhood #10
    I ain\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'t from the south but I got here as fast as I could.

  9. #5259
    WacoNut's Avatar
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    RE: WACO YMF

    I am going to place an order with Sig for some balsa in a week or so. They sell the aluminum wing jouners that come with the Spacewalker. I am going to go ahead and order the joiner and see if I can make that fit the bill for the Waco.
    I do work in a machine shop so if it doesn't fit I can always manufacture one the correct size.
    Anthony
    WACO Brother #30 Cub Brother #17
    It's not the hours you put in It's what you put into the hours.

  10. #5260
    WacoNut's Avatar
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    RE: WACO YMF

    Bob,
    Looking at the plans and some full scale photo's I see a real advantage to building the bottom wing 3 pieces also. This would allow you to run the fuse stringers below the bottom wing for a more scale profile as well as build a better wing fillet. This is all very interesting and I will have to look into if further. I believe the wings can be made 3 piece without too much trouble. I have a Ziroli 87" Stearman all framed up and it has 3 piece wings also. I will see if I can just copy that method to the Waco.
    Anthony
    WACO Brother #30 Cub Brother #17
    It's not the hours you put in It's what you put into the hours.

  11. #5261

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    RE: WACO YMF

    ORIGINAL: RICKSTUBBZ

    I like the touch of the rubber powered free flighter taking center stage.
    By the way, Have you decided on which project to do next?
    I thought about scaling up the R-P FF to about 500% and using a truck-tire inner tube for power. I could probably use a 4x6 timber for the fuse, that's all the wood I'd need. I figure the inner tube might spin a warped piece of 1x6 deck planking for a prop. My other planes are all out in my horse trailer right now (fully enclosed and insulated, so I'm not worried about weather), to give me room to work. Hanging them seems to be the only option I'll have except for the top shelf on a couple of racks. At least the ceiling in the garage is 11 feet, just a matter of locating attic joists for hooks.

    Actually, my next project is sitting in the box which is laying on the building table; L-19/0-1 BirdDog. 1/4 scale Vaillancourt plans, and I got the kit laser cut by Precision Cut Kits. 108 inch wingspan, which is why I needed the larger building table. I have a ZDZ-50NG for the motive power.

    Of my next six planned projects after the L-19, the shortest wing in them is six feet, which is the UPF Waco. Danged if I know where I'll store four 1/4 scale and two 1/5 scale biplanes, plus the L-19. My ceiling would look like the Air and Space Museum in D.C.

    I want to do a build thread on the BirdDog; do you think I should do it on the Vintage/Antiques forum, or RC Scale Warbirds, or ?
    Club Saito #2, WACO Brotherhood #20. What other trouble can I get into?

  12. #5262

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    RE: WACO YMF

    Anthony, keep us posted. I'd like to see your work on this project. ( With Pictures )
    Skinny Bob - AMA 713081
    WACO Brotherhood #10
    I ain\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'t from the south but I got here as fast as I could.

  13. #5263

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    RE: WACO YMF

    Anthony,
    I am building the Pepino YMF. I built both wings in three pieces, for ease of set-up at the field and for storage purposes. I plan on leaving the outboard wing panels assembled during transport with a false inner strut to keep them stable. I have seen this done on a giant Stearman and it seemed to work great. Make sure the bottom center section is removable for fusealge access. All I will have to do at the field is attatch the outboard panels, tighten four bolts, and connect the flying wires and servo leads. Hope this helps.
    Scott
    Waco Brotherhood #49

    I buy, I build, I fly, I crash. I buy, Ibuild, I fly, I crash. I buy, I build,................

  14. #5264
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    RE: WACO YMF

    I am sure I will pursue the 3 piece wing idea,
    Just got home from doing a little shopping with the wife and swung by Sears and picked up a new 16" scroll saw. I had always borrowed one in the past so now Iam all set for kit cutting. I have a band saw,disc/belt sander and drill press as well, everything needed to cut some kits
    Anthony
    WACO Brother #30 Cub Brother #17
    It's not the hours you put in It's what you put into the hours.

  15. #5265
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    RE: WACO YMF

    Anthony,

    Glad you brought up the fillets. There seems to be differences between the original YMFs and the new YMF Classics and Supers. The original fillets appear longer and about one stringer lower at the rear on the fuselage. The new fillets are shorter and higher on the fuselage and appear fatter with a more pronounced upsweep to the underside trailing edge. See the National Waco Club site, F3-F5 album for original photos. Photos 11 (NC 14041), 30 (NC 14067), 42 (NC 14134) and 67 (Cuban #26) all show the longer, lower fillet as compared to the one below.

    P1 Fillet on YMF Classic NC 14081, from below
    P2 Fillet on YMF Classic NC 14081, from the side. The trailing edge on the original would attach one stringer lower and further back.
    P3 Fillet on YMF Classic NC 14081, from the other side.
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    John F Howard (aka skylarkmk1)
    AMA 10955, WACO Brotherhood #26, AWC, NWC

  16. #5266
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    RE: WACO YMF

    John,
    Thanks for the pics, I am starting to collect a folder of Waco pics. I am also very curious to the dimensions of the streamlined flying wires. Nelson's Hobby's carries streamlined flying wires that are 1/8" wide. I think these may be a little large for 1/5 scale. I have a good solution for scale aileron connections for the top to the bottom wing but I need some good pics of all the flying wire connections if you have them on file.
    I am going to draw up some scale clevis ends and have my brother turn them out for me on one of his CNC lathes. Once I get this drawn up and talk him into doing it I will have him run off several extra sets. They will be a bit more tedious to hook up at the field but the WOW factor will more than make up for it.
    Antony
    ps. BTW this is rapidly becoming a sickness for me, can't stop searching the web for Waco stuff and I am trying to rush through everything else I need to get done so I can start on the Waco
    WACO Brother #30 Cub Brother #17
    It's not the hours you put in It's what you put into the hours.

  17. #5267
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    RE: WACO YMF

    Anthony,

    I was just to CCA yesterday measuring the struts, aileron spar taper point and taking more pictures of different Wacos, but dam* it, forgot to measure the flying wires. If memory serves me correctly, 1/8th width would be a bit small as I believe the wire to be 1" wide or maybe a bit more. I will stop in next weekend and measure them for sure (weather permitting) and get the measurements.

    There is a Canadian dealer that imports the wires from Europe that are custom made for your aircraft (you supply the measurements) that are available in different sizes (width) with scale fittings. Being custom, they are expensive (like $30 for a set of 2 18"ers[X(]). When I find the link again I'll pass it on.

    I know how you feel about the info gathering process, that is why I did the list on the House of Moy site http://www.houseofmoy.com/waco/
    John F Howard (aka skylarkmk1)
    AMA 10955, WACO Brotherhood #26, AWC, NWC

  18. #5268
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    RE: WACO YMF

    I used to have the link for the flying wires you are talking about, way too expensive. They have nice scale fittings but I figured it would cost over $250 just for the flying wires on my 87" Stearman.
    Anthony
    WACO Brother #30 Cub Brother #17
    It's not the hours you put in It's what you put into the hours.

  19. #5269

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    RE: WACO YMF

    Skylarkmk1

    Hi John found this on a post in another form. Thought you might be interested. While this is for 1/6 scale, one could scale up to 1/5th. Don Borton (aka red 1)

    Posts: 43
    Joined: 8/10/2002
    From: Goleta, CA, USA
    Status: offline Interesting - I went to Nelsonhobby.com as suggested above and discovered that the wing wires for the Waco are different sizes depending on their function.
    -
    Function----------------Full Scale ----------------1/6 Scale
    Front Flying Wire-----.439" ---------------------.073"
    Rear Flying Wire------.450"----------------------.075"
    Front Landing Wire---.439"----------------------.073"
    Rear Landing Wire----.439"----------------------.073"
    Stabilizer Wire---------.351"----------------------.059"
    -
    Looks like 1/14" diameter wire would be closer to scale for my 1/6 scale Waco , but close enough to the 1/16" weed whacker line. I plan to dye the white line silver. I also plan to CA (or crimp) the line into a 2-56 thread coupler and screw the coupler into a 1" turnbuckel which attaches to a brass fastner on the wing.

  20. #5270
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    RE: WACO YMF

    Just as I thought the 1/8" wire would be too large even for the 1/5 scale. It would work fine for my 87" stearman so I may go ahead and order some just to see how it looks on the Stearman.
    Antony
    WACO Brother #30 Cub Brother #17
    It's not the hours you put in It's what you put into the hours.

  21. #5271
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    RE: WACO YMF


    Okay, Here is the roster to date.

    WACO BROTHERHOOD MEMBERSHIP:

    #1 stickbuilder
    #2 Hughes500
    #3 Jim Henley
    #4 mmattockx
    #5 CTflyboy
    #6 michaelj2k
    #7 Ronj10
    #8 gwulle
    #9 jim schroer
    #10 Skinny Bob
    #11 Bart5495
    #12 Pimmnz
    #13 HarryJ
    No. 14 Old Git
    #15 ChrisMH
    #16 Nerevar
    #17 Ricatic
    #18 Clay H.
    #19 Tripp2Loo
    #20 KHodges
    #21 Bill Hogue (WACO One)
    #22 Mangolo (Waldo)
    #23 av8ter
    #24 yel914 (Rick)
    #25 damifino
    #26 skylarkmk1
    #27 Jacque
    #28 Edwin
    #29 AROPLANE
    #30 CubNut (Anthony)
    #31 BQuartucy (Bob Q)
    #32 AERORON
    #33 funkymusic
    #34 Live Wire (Larry)
    #35 obo (Bob)
    #36 Jackk36 (Jack)
    #37 fatherrooster (Jim)
    #38 Ilikebipes
    #39 Kestrel0222
    #40 CROWMAN17 (Marc)
    #41 redcesar
    #42 S. Christensen (Scott)
    #43 Bill Deidrich
    #44 Mike Barbee
    #45 mrdhud (Dan Hudson)
    #46 SoCalSal
    #47 Todd (NightStalker)
    #48 argon (Bob Gonzalez)
    #49 mango 12 (Scott)
    #50 skyjet 1
    #51 ZIG
    #52 Didg
    #53 MarvinE255 (DOC)
    #54 Joe Norris (Full Scale WACO Pilot)
    #55 vasek
    #56 SuperCub Man (Jim)
    #57 Black Drape (Ron)
    #58 aminiet (Angel Minet)
    #59 Snowball
    #60 doc zinger
    #61 jagnweiner (Scott)
    #62 Meesh (Bob)
    #63 BigBoy99 (Bernie)
    #64 stifts (Steve)
    #65 RCWalker (Wallace)
    #66 Mobyal
    #67 lazyace
    #68 bladerunner1955 (Don)
    #69 trlambsr
    #70 Big Bird (Ken)
    #71 Tony V (Tony)
    #72 red 1
    #73 412t1 (Sean)
    #74 Mr Lucky (Ben Warner)
    #75 RICKSTUBBZ (Rick Stubblefield)
    #76 ffdg (Fred)
    #77 tomcraig
    #78 Michou41a Michel
    #79 Watzscale (Dick Watz)
    #80 Devens
    #81 msilvestro (Mark)
    #82 Cheechukranch (Lewis)
    #83 kruzin55 (Chris)
    #84 lynchr (Ron)
    #85 airplanegeek
    #86 Mainer Jim
    #87 Garthwood (Charles)
    #88 RCBOATMANIAC (Dave)
    #89 Thomas B
    #90 George Werber

    #100 nine o nine (Mitch Epstein)



    WACO Sisterhood Roster:

    S-1 Janelle (Lady Stickbuilder)
    S-2 Sissy Nightstalker
    S-3 Barb Barbee
    S-4 LadyMango (Lynda)
    S-5 BUMBLE GEE BEE (Gabi)

    Bill, AMA 4720
    WACO Brotherhood #1









    Its easy, just glue all the pieces together, and sand off everything that doesnt look like an airplane.

  22. #5272
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    RE: WACO YMF


    ORIGINAL: CubNut

    Has anyone thought of making the top wing in 3 pieces?? That would allow you to leave the top center section attached to the cabanes at all times and just remove the outer panels. I would still leave the bottom wing as one piece but I would think this would make it easier to transport and setup at the field. Another advantage to doing this is that you could detail out the cabane area better if you made the top center setion a permenate mount.
    Any thoughts here??
    Anthony
    Well,

    You have let the cat out of the bag. I have plans to do this one that way, but I am planning to do the bottom wing in 3 sections as well. Remember, the root ribs on mine will be from 1/4" aircraft ply, and that means that you will need to cut 8 root ribs. I am going to use a socket head bolt that I can access with a ball driver, and put it under an access circle. I have to make the electrical hookup self aligning for the Aileron servos, the navigation lights, and the landing light and it's servo.

    Bill, AMA 4720
    WACO Brotherhood #1
    Its easy, just glue all the pieces together, and sand off everything that doesnt look like an airplane.

  23. #5273
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    RE: WACO YMF

    Don, Antony,

    You guys have got me going now on the wires. I will have to go to CCA next Saturday just to satisfy my curiosity. Like the struts and Dons post above, I now suspect they will also vary, depending on function and plane. I will pass what I find out to every one.

    I did manage to measure the strut tubes and they varied in width on different planes. According to Terry, the Chief of Waco restorations at CCA for the HARM, the cross section is symmetrical, not tear drop like the K&S aluminum tubing and does vary. Terry also is a modeler and mentioned that K&S does have brass symmetrical tubing (found 1 piece in the rack at the LHS) that is ¼” wide, thin wall, but could not find it listed on their web site.

    P1 Center strut on UBF-2 NC 155Y, side view, approx 2-1/2” wide (1/2” w @ 1/5th)
    P2 Center strut on UBF-2 NC 155Y, front view, approx 1” thick (.2” t @ 1/5th)
    P3 Center strut on QCF-2, NC 12428, side view, approx 2” wide. (.4 w @ 1/5th)

    The Pica YMF 1/5th plans call for 9/16” (.558”) wide x 5/16” (.31”) thick bass wood. The GTM http://www.flygtm.com/web/pages/alu-struts.htm ΒΌ scale streamline struts for the Hanriot (p/n 2001) would be close (visually at scale judging distance, 4’) at .690 x .260.
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    John F Howard (aka skylarkmk1)
    AMA 10955, WACO Brotherhood #26, AWC, NWC

  24. #5274

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    RE: WACO YMF

    I don’t say a lot (kind of quite and shy) but read all the posts and have learned a great deal. I already feel as if I know a lot of you. Thanks to everyone that takes the time and trouble to share information, especially the full size pictures and history.

    Bill – If you brought home a 572 and then discovered it wouldn’t fit in a Waco I’ll take it off your hands. My 65 Bel Air only has a 502 I built and 500+ HP has become a little boring. Hope you have the 720 HP model.

    In reading all the posts about landing gear and landing hop (seems to be more of a problem on paved runways), I remembered that when I took a rent-a-ride in one back it the 70’s, the pilot did not use the paved runway at all. He used the grass parallel to the runway. That flight was one of the most memorable hours of my 60+ years.

    I have finally stopped working on the Cox Waco after fussing with it for four months and about 120 hours. Not bad for an ARF. I think I could have built one from scratch with a little more time invested and had a nicer plane. Due to family issues, I am not able to get to the field to fly anything for the time being, so I just started on a Pilot quarter scale Decathlon. I bought it at a swap meet in the early 90’s. The fuselage had been framed and the rest (I though) was still in the box. I now see why it was sold. The guy was way over his head. Nor only did he mess up the work he did, he used wood at random (and wrong) so now I am faced with finding, or cutting, metric size lumber. This project should keep me out of trouble for a long time.

    Ken – I know you have a Decathlon and have two questions for you (or anyone else) that can offer some advice. Since I have discovered that the top half of the cowl is not in the box, I need to buy a fiberglass one. Who offers the best quality? Also, the kit specifies a 10 to 35 cc engine. I have an OS FT120; FT160 (in the Waco); FT300; and a 180 Moki on the shelf. I have checked the Moki and the whole cylinder head would have to stick out of the cowl. I’m not sure the 120 would be enough to do scale aerobatics, and the 300 would be gross overkill for a 13 pound plane with 1,500 sq in of wing. What are you using?

    Ron
    Ron, AMA 82196
    WACO Brotherhood #84

  25. #5275
    skylarkmk1's Avatar
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    RE: WACO YMF

    All,

    I also managed to get a couple of shots of the wing tip from the rear and measured from the outer end of the aileron spar back to the start of the taper along the bottom. The top starts to taper about 7-1/4” from the end (P4).

    P1 Rear view of the upper wing tip on UBA, NC 12245. Note the aileron stops just a little short of the spar end.
    P2 End view of the lower wing tip on UBA NC 12245
    P3 Front view of the aileron of an YKS under restoration. Note the taper starts at a little less than 29” from the tip.
    P4 Rear view of the aileron spar of the same YKS.

    For those of you that are not aware of it, Waco used the same aileron on many of its different models such as the YMF/UMF, UBF-2, UPF-7, QCF-2 and UBA and that is why you will see different airplanes used to illistrate various parts. Waco also used similar layouts for instrument panels.
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    John F Howard (aka skylarkmk1)
    AMA 10955, WACO Brotherhood #26, AWC, NWC


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