WACO YMF
#5351
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RE: WACO YMF
ORIGINAL: red 1a
Hi John L
Thanks for the excellent tutorial on soldering. Great information! Now...since I don't have a 1000W soldering gun or a soldering iron can I use a propane tourch instead ?
red 1 (aka Don Borton)
AMA IMAA
WACo Brotherhood #72
Hi John L
Thanks for the excellent tutorial on soldering. Great information! Now...since I don't have a 1000W soldering gun or a soldering iron can I use a propane tourch instead ?
red 1 (aka Don Borton)
AMA IMAA
WACo Brotherhood #72
Yes you can but the virtue of a copper soldering iron is that the temperature is exact and controlled. When the solder conducts the heat into the work there is little chance of oxidation spoiling the bond.
I took a look at flea bay to see what was on offer. Rather dissapointing, I found no decent sized electrical irons, only small electrical/electronic irons. I was surprised to find no thermal shunts in that area to keep the heat from damaging nearby insulation or components. A couple of small pieces of copper in the jaws of a crocodile clip make a satisfactory thermal shunt.
Try these on eBay US and UK to see old fashioned (how I started) irons. I have a number I bought at Boot Sales, the UK equivalent of a Garage Sale where a number of people collect with their cars and sell surplus, counterfeit and stolen goods. Soldering Irons can be heated on a gas ring, a dedicated gas muffle or even with a naked flame. Keep a fire extinguisher handy, I kee a liquid soap bottle (painted red) and filled with water. This is also quite useful to quench potential fires when welding vehicles.
Soldering Irons on eBay, USA and UK.
SET SOLDERING IRONS
Item number: 320200553737
Pair of Soldering Coppers #3 Point & #4 Chisel NEW
Item number: 350010118935
Old COPPER HEADED Soldering Iron - Blacksmith Tool
Item number: 150200691548
Old COPPER & Wood Handled BLACKSMITH SOLDERING IRON (Muffle)
Item number: 150200699105
VINTAGE GAS BURNER SOLDERING IRON HEATER
Item number: 120205233932
2oz Soldering Iron Straight.
Item number: 260197982096
old git - - - - aka John L.
WACO Brotherhood No. 14.
#5352
RE: WACO YMF
ORIGINAL: CubNut
yeah but flying with batteries you never get to hear this
[link]http://youtube.com/watch?v=iK0u2nSronc&feature=related[/link]
yeah but flying with batteries you never get to hear this
[link]http://youtube.com/watch?v=iK0u2nSronc&feature=related[/link]
#5354
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RE: WACO YMF
I would like to add to the soldering tips, and I didn't check the tips but I don't remember seeing this in there. I'm talking about doing lead soldering here.
Clean everything until it's shiny before you start to solder. Clean metal, clean copper. Use fine sandpaper or scotchbrite scrubbing pads. When you're soldering and using flux, the little black bits and greyish stuff that comes off of it before it becomes shinier, those are bits of dirt that the flux and heat are working together to remove and flush out. Start with a cleaner assembly and your soldering will go more smoothly and quickly. And yes, I do mean scrub the copper wire with the scotchbrite before you wind it around the gear wires. I even wipe the solder down well before use because it can gather some corrosion sitting there. If you don't like the aluminum stuff they sell now, lead solder is still available for industrial applications like radiator repairs and such, so it can be found in industrial supply stores. Just don't use it in your plumbing anymore! And remember, the assembly must be hot enough to melt the solder by itself, never ever use the torch to melt the solder, use the torch to heat the assembly, let the solder melt through contact with the heated assembly. And remember one more thing, a good soldering job is not meant to take the place of a poorly-wound joint! If you have a neat, tight, well-wound gear assembly, a good lead-soldering job will hold it forever. Steam it off with very hot water afterward to remove the flux that remains, so your paints and other applications can stick to it.
I'm sure some of this was already covered, but I thought it couldn't hurt to throw a few tips in there.
Jim
Clean everything until it's shiny before you start to solder. Clean metal, clean copper. Use fine sandpaper or scotchbrite scrubbing pads. When you're soldering and using flux, the little black bits and greyish stuff that comes off of it before it becomes shinier, those are bits of dirt that the flux and heat are working together to remove and flush out. Start with a cleaner assembly and your soldering will go more smoothly and quickly. And yes, I do mean scrub the copper wire with the scotchbrite before you wind it around the gear wires. I even wipe the solder down well before use because it can gather some corrosion sitting there. If you don't like the aluminum stuff they sell now, lead solder is still available for industrial applications like radiator repairs and such, so it can be found in industrial supply stores. Just don't use it in your plumbing anymore! And remember, the assembly must be hot enough to melt the solder by itself, never ever use the torch to melt the solder, use the torch to heat the assembly, let the solder melt through contact with the heated assembly. And remember one more thing, a good soldering job is not meant to take the place of a poorly-wound joint! If you have a neat, tight, well-wound gear assembly, a good lead-soldering job will hold it forever. Steam it off with very hot water afterward to remove the flux that remains, so your paints and other applications can stick to it.
I'm sure some of this was already covered, but I thought it couldn't hurt to throw a few tips in there.
Jim
#5355
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RE: WACO YMF
ORIGINAL: skylarkmk1
Tom,
When you get the chance, post some pictures of the plane and especially the motor setup (under cowl and in fuselage). Going Green might be just the way for ring cowled Wacos like the UPFs, UBFs, QCFs and many more. The double sided (front and back of the cylinders) dummy engine crank case could enclose the motor and not worry about hiding a cylinder, carb or muffler.
Tom,
When you get the chance, post some pictures of the plane and especially the motor setup (under cowl and in fuselage). Going Green might be just the way for ring cowled Wacos like the UPFs, UBFs, QCFs and many more. The double sided (front and back of the cylinders) dummy engine crank case could enclose the motor and not worry about hiding a cylinder, carb or muffler.
It is indeed nice to bolt on the cowl with no ugly holes for cylinder heads, mufflers and needle valves.
I still need to add the faux radial to complete the cowl, but that will happen fairly soon. I am only going to do a front vac fomed dummy, though.
#5356
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RE: WACO YMF
ORIGINAL: CubNut
yeah but flying with batteries you never get to hear this
[link]http://youtube.com/watch?v=iK0u2nSronc&feature=related[/link]
yeah but flying with batteries you never get to hear this
[link]http://youtube.com/watch?v=iK0u2nSronc&feature=related[/link]
True, but why listen to that when you can listen to the real sound of the full size radial on the model as it flies:
http://www.aerosoundrc.com/
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...t=radial+sound
the 215cc radial does sound pretty good, especially on the ground and taking off and landing, but in the air making a pass, the prop speed as associated sound is too fast for a nice scale effect.
Check out this electric giant scale P-47 with the sound system working quite well:
http://www.aerosoundrc.com/movies/PNicholson_p47.wmv
#5357
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RE: WACO YMF
ORIGINAL: khodges
Is that a puddle of electrons I see under your plane? I appreciate what electrics can do nowadays, and I'll bet you can hear the wind in the wing wires a lot better, but I just gotta have internal combustion NOISE.
ORIGINAL: Thomas B
................that stays perfectly clean on the belly and in the cowl and never drips fuel or oil in the house...
................that stays perfectly clean on the belly and in the cowl and never drips fuel or oil in the house...
Check out my post above...why settle for glow and gas noise when you can have the real sound of the full size radial?...
The sound system can be programmed with a variety of engine sound clips (one has to be picked to match your model) and the sound is coupled to the throttle function of your radio. Not a video game type noise...this is an actual sound file recorded from the full scale engine.
A local flyer has this sound system in a 72" GP electrified P-6E, playing the Merlin type noise to simluate the Curtis Conqueror of the full scale...it sounds incredible, especially during takeoff and landing.
#5358
Thread Starter
RE: WACO YMF
ORIGINAL: Thomas B
Check out my post above...why settle for glow and gas noise when you can have the real sound of the full size radial?...
The sound system can be programmed with a variety of engine sound clips (one has to be picked to match your model) and the sound is coupled to the throttle function of your radio. Not a video game type noise...this is an actual sound file recorded from the full scale engine.
A local flyer has this sound system in a 72" GP electrified P-6E, playing the Merlin type noise to simluate the Curtis Conqueror of the full scale...it sounds incredible, especially during takeoff and landing.
ORIGINAL: khodges
Is that a puddle of electrons I see under your plane? I appreciate what electrics can do nowadays, and I'll bet you can hear the wind in the wing wires a lot better, but I just gotta have internal combustion NOISE.
ORIGINAL: Thomas B
................that stays perfectly clean on the belly and in the cowl and never drips fuel or oil in the house...
................that stays perfectly clean on the belly and in the cowl and never drips fuel or oil in the house...
Check out my post above...why settle for glow and gas noise when you can have the real sound of the full size radial?...
The sound system can be programmed with a variety of engine sound clips (one has to be picked to match your model) and the sound is coupled to the throttle function of your radio. Not a video game type noise...this is an actual sound file recorded from the full scale engine.
A local flyer has this sound system in a 72" GP electrified P-6E, playing the Merlin type noise to simluate the Curtis Conqueror of the full scale...it sounds incredible, especially during takeoff and landing.
Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1
#5360
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RE: WACO YMF
Curious as to what it would sound like in the event of an engine dying. Probably not much change! All those motor sounds and the plane siiiinkiiing.... ;^)
I actually like the idea of canned engine sounds. It has merit.
Jim
I actually like the idea of canned engine sounds. It has merit.
Jim
#5361
RE: WACO YMF
Hey Bill,
Do your "Long Johns" still fit (if you have any)? And you didn't have to go north of the Ohio River to get 90 weight, it came to you.
It was 3° here in St Louis yesterday and a bit colder in the northern climates.
Do your "Long Johns" still fit (if you have any)? And you didn't have to go north of the Ohio River to get 90 weight, it came to you.
It was 3° here in St Louis yesterday and a bit colder in the northern climates.
#5362
Thread Starter
RE: WACO YMF
ORIGINAL: skylarkmk1
Hey Bill,
Do your "Long Johns" still fit (if you have any)? And you didn't have to go north of the Ohio River to get 90 weight, it came to you.
It was 3° here in St Louis yesterday and a bit colder in the northern climates.
Hey Bill,
Do your "Long Johns" still fit (if you have any)? And you didn't have to go north of the Ohio River to get 90 weight, it came to you.
It was 3° here in St Louis yesterday and a bit colder in the northern climates.
Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1
#5364
RE: WACO YMF
Anthony,
You were talking about removable flying wires and the concealed attachment points in post #5248, page 210. If you haven’t done so check the link BigBird99 posted in #5255, page 211. Hans has a quick disconnect method using the ends of bicycle spokes and some “key hole” plates attached to the spars or fuselage EARLY in the construction. I am still looking for the link to the Canadian dealer that handles Aero Scale Products (scale flying wires), but they are quite expensive.
You were talking about removable flying wires and the concealed attachment points in post #5248, page 210. If you haven’t done so check the link BigBird99 posted in #5255, page 211. Hans has a quick disconnect method using the ends of bicycle spokes and some “key hole” plates attached to the spars or fuselage EARLY in the construction. I am still looking for the link to the Canadian dealer that handles Aero Scale Products (scale flying wires), but they are quite expensive.
#5365
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RE: WACO YMF
Hey John,
....ehmmmmm......I´m not BigBird99, but BigBoy99!
I´m just busy with prepairing my waco for paintwork, before this I made the front cockpit windshield
and reduced my plywood mount ring from 2 1/2 " to 3/4" strength , to mount the motor a bit more nearer to the center of gravity,
she was a bit too heavy in the front, I hope, it brings the result, that I want.
See self:
Bernie
....ehmmmmm......I´m not BigBird99, but BigBoy99!
I´m just busy with prepairing my waco for paintwork, before this I made the front cockpit windshield
and reduced my plywood mount ring from 2 1/2 " to 3/4" strength , to mount the motor a bit more nearer to the center of gravity,
she was a bit too heavy in the front, I hope, it brings the result, that I want.
See self:
Bernie
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RE: WACO YMF
Back to the soldering subject.... This is something I saw on Mythbusters a while back. After soldering or brazing a piece of metal, you can take the piece of metal, while still very hot, and immerse it in used engine oil, the blacker the better. It is supposed to "re-carbonize" the metal, replacing the carbon that the metal lost during the heating process, and restoring the metal to its original strength. Just a" for what it's worth".
#5369
Thread Starter
RE: WACO YMF
ORIGINAL: mango12
Back to the soldering subject.... This is something I saw on Mythbusters a while back. After soldering or brazing a piece of metal, you can take the piece of metal, while still very hot, and immerse it in used engine oil, the blacker the better. It is supposed to "re-carbonize" the metal, replacing the carbon that the metal lost during the heating process, and restoring the metal to its original strength. Just a" for what it's worth".
Back to the soldering subject.... This is something I saw on Mythbusters a while back. After soldering or brazing a piece of metal, you can take the piece of metal, while still very hot, and immerse it in used engine oil, the blacker the better. It is supposed to "re-carbonize" the metal, replacing the carbon that the metal lost during the heating process, and restoring the metal to its original strength. Just a" for what it's worth".
Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1
#5370
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RE: WACO YMF
Sorry to ask a dumb question... Is it possible to buy a 60 or 120 size Waco kit. This plane is all my grandfather talks about. He has no idea how to use the internet and I figured I would love to get this for him for his birthday, he is a great guy. He tells me that there is no way to get this plane is he correct? I would appreciate any help I could get. Thank you.
Vincent
Vincent
#5371
RE: WACO YMF
Vincent,
Sorry to say, but the Pica Waco YMF 72” wing span (1/5th) and the 60” wing span (1/6th) kits are no longer made. Pica went out of business in the mid 1980s and gave the plans to the AMA and also gave Cox rights to produce an ARF (Almost Ready to Fly) version in both sizes (with some changes). The 1/5th Cox/Pica kit is presently not listed on their web site while the 1/6th still is. You might find a Pica kit on the "bay" but be careful on paying too much.
Now the good news; this long thread is all about recreating the Pica 1/5th YMF kit for scratch (plans) builders. Stickbuilder traced all of the parts from a kit he had and that is now part of the complete AMA Plans set (#35406).
There is also the House of Moy, a supplemental site that has the plans in PDF form to down load and use as reference (it is cheaper to get them from the AMA than to have them printed at Kinko’s or Office Max type places), both the long and short manuals (short manual has most of the updates and improvements developed by the members of this thread) and a list of resources and plans for other Wacos
Pica WACO YMF plans #35406 – AMA http://www.modelaircraft.org/
House of Moy http://www.houseofmoy.com/waco/
Cox/Pica ARF -Cox Hobbies http://www.coxmodels.com/
If you show you grandfather how to use these “darn computer contraptions”, he can read this entire thread (with all its different personalities) and learn what improvements have been suggested, history, photos of Wacos while you get the plans from the AMA. He won’t get it done in one day though.
Sorry to say, but the Pica Waco YMF 72” wing span (1/5th) and the 60” wing span (1/6th) kits are no longer made. Pica went out of business in the mid 1980s and gave the plans to the AMA and also gave Cox rights to produce an ARF (Almost Ready to Fly) version in both sizes (with some changes). The 1/5th Cox/Pica kit is presently not listed on their web site while the 1/6th still is. You might find a Pica kit on the "bay" but be careful on paying too much.
Now the good news; this long thread is all about recreating the Pica 1/5th YMF kit for scratch (plans) builders. Stickbuilder traced all of the parts from a kit he had and that is now part of the complete AMA Plans set (#35406).
There is also the House of Moy, a supplemental site that has the plans in PDF form to down load and use as reference (it is cheaper to get them from the AMA than to have them printed at Kinko’s or Office Max type places), both the long and short manuals (short manual has most of the updates and improvements developed by the members of this thread) and a list of resources and plans for other Wacos
Pica WACO YMF plans #35406 – AMA http://www.modelaircraft.org/
House of Moy http://www.houseofmoy.com/waco/
Cox/Pica ARF -Cox Hobbies http://www.coxmodels.com/
If you show you grandfather how to use these “darn computer contraptions”, he can read this entire thread (with all its different personalities) and learn what improvements have been suggested, history, photos of Wacos while you get the plans from the AMA. He won’t get it done in one day though.
#5372
My Feedback: (4)
RE: WACO YMF
ORIGINAL: Mainer_Jim
Curious as to what it would sound like in the event of an engine dying. Probably not much change! All those motor sounds and the plane siiiinkiiing.... ;^)
I actually like the idea of canned engine sounds. It has merit.
Jim
Curious as to what it would sound like in the event of an engine dying. Probably not much change! All those motor sounds and the plane siiiinkiiing.... ;^)
I actually like the idea of canned engine sounds. It has merit.
Jim
I am seriously thinking about adding the sound to my Waco......
#5373
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RE: WACO YMF
Thank you very much Skylarkmk1, I really appreciate the information. I can show him how to at least get on this site... It would be well worth his time I am sure. Is it to expensive to take the planes to a laser cut company to get some kits made? In the over 5000 threads I am sure it has been addressed. Alot of question I know. Thanks again.
#5374
RE: WACO YMF
Vincent,
You are correct, laser cutting has come up. The problem is the plans are not laser ready, some of the laser cutting companies feel that there are too many parts, so it is not worth their time (to convert the plans for the demand) or the cost is too high. The alterative is to get a decent scroll saw with minimal vibration (the original Dremal saw was very bad in this respect) and cut the kit for him or let him do the whole project (after reading about the modifications and upgrades, some of the parts have been changed or replaced). The satisfaction of doing it all is many times better than just putting the parts together from a kit.
Going the other way with the Cox/Pica ARF will get him into the air a bit quicker at the cost of scale fidelity and some minor problems with the ARF kit. The dihedral break is in the center of the center section and not at the ends of the center section, the wheel pants mounting part is junk and falls apart (many have replaced it with the Dubro part) and some other small problems that have been addressed in this thread and the Cox/Pica thread. It is reported to be a decent flying plane.
Oh yeah, both the original Pica kit and the Cox/Pica ARF are actually Waco UMFs. The difference is in the cowl and both the UMF and YMF cowls are available from aftermarket Fiberglass companies. YMF had a Jacobs engine with evenly spaced Rocker Arm blisters, UMF had a Continental engine with paired blisters.
You are correct, laser cutting has come up. The problem is the plans are not laser ready, some of the laser cutting companies feel that there are too many parts, so it is not worth their time (to convert the plans for the demand) or the cost is too high. The alterative is to get a decent scroll saw with minimal vibration (the original Dremal saw was very bad in this respect) and cut the kit for him or let him do the whole project (after reading about the modifications and upgrades, some of the parts have been changed or replaced). The satisfaction of doing it all is many times better than just putting the parts together from a kit.
Going the other way with the Cox/Pica ARF will get him into the air a bit quicker at the cost of scale fidelity and some minor problems with the ARF kit. The dihedral break is in the center of the center section and not at the ends of the center section, the wheel pants mounting part is junk and falls apart (many have replaced it with the Dubro part) and some other small problems that have been addressed in this thread and the Cox/Pica thread. It is reported to be a decent flying plane.
Oh yeah, both the original Pica kit and the Cox/Pica ARF are actually Waco UMFs. The difference is in the cowl and both the UMF and YMF cowls are available from aftermarket Fiberglass companies. YMF had a Jacobs engine with evenly spaced Rocker Arm blisters, UMF had a Continental engine with paired blisters.
#5375
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RE: WACO YMF
Waco Brotherhood ,I need help finding a supplier for clear plastic for windshields. I need two large sheets about 17x17 in. thanks for any help you may provide
Jacque
Waco Brotherhood #27
Jacque
Waco Brotherhood #27