Stickbuilder

Joe,

You would probably do very well as long as it was going away from you, or passing you. It's when it is heading toward you that full scale pilots have a problem with. That plus there is no feeling in the seat of your pants (well, there can be a feeling in the seat of your pants, but normally only after a near miss).

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

RICKSTUBBZ

Ken,

That is a excellent picture of a beautiful aircraft!!!!![8D] If mine will turn out half as nice it is sure to be the envy of the flight line.

WacoJoe

I totally understand that feeling!! That's not something I want to repeat on a regular basis!! LOL

Cheers!

Joe
WB #54

khodges

My Feedback: (1)

Have I been gone?[X(]


Thanks for the nice comments on my baby.. I'm on here every day, but don't reply as much because most of this stuff about autocad, and what format such-and-such will download in is as far over my head as the space shuttle would be to Orville and Wilbur. Give me a pencil, divider and straightedge, that's about the limit of my higher technology.

Jim Henley

Ken,
Excellent Point! While some of us may not be posting as much as usual, I'm checking the thread daily and sometimes several times a day. If it ever warms up enough here, where we can get out and fly, there will be more posts about flying technique !

khodges

My Feedback: (1)

Joe, it would be great if you'd talk us through an approach from, say, 750-1000 feet at normal cruise speed. You know, like how far back do you pull power, what kind of glide slope and approach speed, starting when you enter the pattern, through the downwind and base leg, and then short final, flair, and touchdown. I know the flight characteristics of your big UPF won't translate exactly to our models, but might give us some insight on how to modify and improve our own landing techniques. Especially tell us some of the no-no's that you have to beware of, such as crosswind limits, what kind of pre-stall behavior yours has, etc.

My plane, for example, does not like a three point attitude on approach (and I'm talking about 3 to 4 feet up or so, would translate to the last 20 feet to you); if I slow it to the point I can get the tail in that position, I am too close to a stall, and don't have adequate rudder or elevator authority. I suspect some blanking of airflow from the wings, but the net effect is too little control, and if it stalls before the wheels touch, well it goes where it wants.

Good to hear from you, let's get going on that blog!! I check it from time to time, looking for maintenance tips. Hope you're staying warm up there in cheese land, I hate the Packers didn't make the Bowl (been a G.B. fan all my life)

lazyace

My Feedback: (126)

warms up hay it got up to 25 here today

Stickbuilder

We had a nasty little cold front come through today. It was only about 74. Brrrrrrrrr.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

RCBOATMANIAC

Dang Floridians your such Commodians [sm=lol.gif] shoot it got up 34 degs here today nice and warm makes me want to hurry up and build the 1/6 scale so I can put skies on it and cut holes in the sky! [sm=shades_smile.gif] Dave

Stickbuilder

Walked out on the screen porch this morning at 0400. It was 39 degrees. Geez!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Who left the North door open???????? Must have been someone from up North who brought it with them.

I saw a neat bumper sticker yesterday. It read, "Welcome to the Sunshine State.....Now GO HOME." There is another one that is available down here. It reads, "It's Snowbird Season, What is the BAG LIMIT?"

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

RCBOATMANIAC

I think it was one of those canadians who left the Northern door open it is 0830 here and it is only a mere 2 deg big time BRRRRRRR!! I gues I need to run up to the border and close that door.

lazyace

My Feedback: (126)

HURRY UP and close that door

RCBOATMANIAC

I think they need to close that big door over there at Niagra Fall, because it come down from there and works its way east.

Skinny Bob

My Feedback: (12)

I was in Northern Wisconsin from Jan 14 thru Feb 9. The first week it got down to -28 one night, now thats cold. I vote on closing that door also.

BigBoy99

Hey weedy mans,

we have here in germany at night 14° F , good weatherthread here.....

Bernie

WacoJoe

Ken,

That's actually not as easy as it sounds. Every approach is different. Different airport, different traffic situation, different weather, different load in the airplane. You get the idea. But for the sake of discussion let's talk about my "ideal" approach. This would be when I have the airport to myself and I don't have to worry about any other traffic on the ground or in the air. (This is a fairly rare occurrance!)

I would fly the downwind leg at about 800 feet above ground level (AGL). When I am directly abeam my intended touchdown point I would retard the throttle to idle. The Waco glides like a streamlined manhole cover with the power off, so as soon as I retard the throttle I would start turning toward the runway. The idea is to fly a 180 degree descending turn from downwind abeam the touchdown point to a smooth roundout right above the runway. This is flown as a continuous turn rather than a base and final. I glide the Waco at about 70 mph until I get to the roundout (or "flare"), which happens right above the runway. The airplane goes from gliding descent through the flare to the touchdown fairly quickly. The stick is just brought smoothly back to the stop and the airplane pretty much does the flare and touchdown by itself. The airplane will touch down on the mains first, followed very shortly by the tailwheel.

For approaches other than as described above, I truly "play it by ear". Everything is done by what I feel and what I see as I work the given situation. The only thing that's the same every time is the roundout (flare) and touchdown, which is always the same no matter what.

Not sure if that helps the model flyers at all, but for what it's worth, that's what I do.

Cheers!

Joe
WB #54

Stickbuilder

Joe,

Thanks for the tutorial on full scale approach and landings. That's the way I try to land the models as well, but sadly, as often as not a, "Go-around", is called for, so I get lots and lots of practice shooting approaches. Just every now and again, I get it just right. Only I don't do the flare, just land it on the mains and allow the tail to come down as the speed bleeds off. I find that with the model, I have to keep a little throttle in on final too. there is where the Reynolds numbers come into play for you, but not for me. There is a big difference in scale dimension, and scale volume. If my model were truly fifth scale, it would have the same dimensions, but would weigh about 350 pounds, and would be powered by a 25 Horsepower 7 cylinder radial engine, that probably wouldn't get the pig off the ground. Maybe once I get a scale set of gear that has some, "Give", the landing technique can more closely replicate the full scale landings, with the gear dangling before going wheels down. If I try it now, I get a whole lot of bouncing.....A WHOLE LOT.[:@]

Did anyone else read RCReport this month? Dick Watz mentioned me, and speaks very highly of our own John Howard. Let's hear it for John. Great work in Dick's behalf there John

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

khodges

My Feedback: (1)

That's definitely a similarity between the full-scale and model (what Stickbuilder said about approach with power). Thanks for the description; I realize they (approaches) are all different, you gave exactly what I was after, the "typical" one, what happens when everything is in your favor. It brought it all back, the downwind leg, and then the rather steeply banked and descending turn over the arch bridge and Missouri river, the rolling level just at the threshold, and then the (surprisingly) short rollout after touchdown. Of course, we landed in the grass, so lots more rolling resistance. That's also something in common. I usually take off from the paved runway at our field, and land on the parallel grass strip.

What's the strongest crosswind you'll take off in? (say 90 degrees from the left), and assuming you don't have the option of a runway into the wind.

WacoJoe

Bill,

You're absolutely right! This comes into play within the "100% scale" aircraft world as well. Very light aircraft (some call them "ultralights") have no mass, and thus no inertia. These aircraft must be flown to the ground with some power or they'll literally come to a stop in the air! The Waco doesn't have this problem. Whereas a very light aircraft may weigh 400 lbs empty and gross at 850 lbs or so, the Waco weighs 1900+ lbs empty and grosses at 2650 lbs. MAJOR difference in how the landing is approached and carried out.

Cheers!

Joe

WacoJoe

Ken,

Again there's no "one size fits all" answer. it would depend on how steady or gusty the wind is, what the terrain is like aorund the airport, what type of field I'm flying off of (grass or pavement). All kinds of variables. But given ideal conditions (grass field, open terrain so there's no rolling wind, steady wind with no gusts) I'd probably fly with direct 90 degree crosswinds up to about 20 mph or so. The closer the wind is to being down the runway, the more wind can be tolerated.

Cheers!

Joe
WB #54

Stickbuilder

Sounds like the wind conditions at most contests that I attend. I don't think I've ever seen wind right down the runway. Most of the time it is 90 degrees to the runway, and steady at 20 mph, gusting to 30. Just the way it seems to work.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

WacoNut

Ok Joe,
Where do we need to show up for a ride???
Anthony

khodges

My Feedback: (1)

Anthony--here's a few more pics to whet your whistle. These were all made in Joe's UPF-7 over the area west and northwest of St. Louis at the confluence of the Missouri and Mississippi Rivers.

WacoNut

Very nice plane and pics,
I know the feeling, I have been up in a 1941 vintage PT-17 a couple of times. You just can't beat a ride in a bipe with a round engine. Here are a few pics I took from the Stearman. The Stearman is very light on the controls until you get to about 30 deg of bank then they get a bit heavy, all in all a very easy plane to fly and probably the best $75 buck I ever spent
Anthony

Stickbuilder

All good reasons not to like some of the guys here. I'm jealous of you getting to fly in an open cockpit bipe. It's been a long time for me. I still remember the sensations that flying in one of these generated. Has anyone ever watched the rivets in the cowling rotating from the harmonic disturbance of a shaky Jake?????? Or was that just in the one my Granddad owned? How about it Joe? any vibrations from yours?


Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1