WACO YMF
#6576
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: St. Catharines,
ON, CANADA
Posts: 617
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: WACO YMF
Here's a couiple of shots Anthony. The top shot is a good one as you cannot see the separation shadow. The side shot is more revealing as the shadow gives the job away! But, works for me and it's too late to fix anyway. Been building this thing for a long time and it's getting time to let it free!!
#6577
RE: WACO YMF
ORIGINAL: lazyace
well I put her up on the scale today and she come in at 14 lbs with a g-26 in the nose and 5oz of lead to balance , now for a good day to fly , been to windy if not windy it's raining bad month for flying here in buffalo ny
well I put her up on the scale today and she come in at 14 lbs with a g-26 in the nose and 5oz of lead to balance , now for a good day to fly , been to windy if not windy it's raining bad month for flying here in buffalo ny
#6578
RE: WACO YMF
ORIGINAL: SuperCub Man
Here's a couiple of shots Anthony. The top shot is a good one as you cannot see the separation shadow. The side shot is more revealing as the shadow gives the job away! But, works for me and it's too late to fix anyway. Been building this thing for a long time and it's getting time to let it free!!
Here's a couiple of shots Anthony. The top shot is a good one as you cannot see the separation shadow. The side shot is more revealing as the shadow gives the job away! But, works for me and it's too late to fix anyway. Been building this thing for a long time and it's getting time to let it free!!
Later!!
Anthony
#6579
Senior Member
RE: WACO YMF
I have come into posession of a crashed Pica WACO and will be rebuilding it. I'll post some photos or possibly a build thread in a few days.
Wish me luck!
Wish me luck!
#6580
Senior Member
RE: WACO YMF
Resurrecting A Dream: Restoring the Pica WACO
Today I picked up a Pica WACO that had crashed shortly after takeoff at our multi-wing fun fly last week. It's hard to fault the pilot for this when our top expert pilot (who is invited to Top Gun every year) admits this particular aircraft to have been a handful on takeoff. Some say it's the incidence, others say it's excessive stagger in the wings. I would bet it's excess weight. Any way you look at it, this particular WACO has had a troubled past, starting right from the first flight. My objective is to get this beauty restored to flying condition while simultaneously making the model less troublesome. This will be a challenge considering it involves taming the wild soul of this beast, but it is a welcome one. I think this is the beginning of a fun and exciting journey! If successful I will give myself the title of WACO Whisperer.
We had a beautiful evening, so I opened the garage and jumped right into the project. I cataloged the damage and made a parts/materials list for the rebuild. I also took the time to strip the covering off the top wing. I have elected to strip all covering from the aircraft because for some reason the color coat didn't adhere properly to the primer, causing a very fragile and somewhat flaky and brittle finish. Although, it did look beautiful.
Today I picked up a Pica WACO that had crashed shortly after takeoff at our multi-wing fun fly last week. It's hard to fault the pilot for this when our top expert pilot (who is invited to Top Gun every year) admits this particular aircraft to have been a handful on takeoff. Some say it's the incidence, others say it's excessive stagger in the wings. I would bet it's excess weight. Any way you look at it, this particular WACO has had a troubled past, starting right from the first flight. My objective is to get this beauty restored to flying condition while simultaneously making the model less troublesome. This will be a challenge considering it involves taming the wild soul of this beast, but it is a welcome one. I think this is the beginning of a fun and exciting journey! If successful I will give myself the title of WACO Whisperer.
We had a beautiful evening, so I opened the garage and jumped right into the project. I cataloged the damage and made a parts/materials list for the rebuild. I also took the time to strip the covering off the top wing. I have elected to strip all covering from the aircraft because for some reason the color coat didn't adhere properly to the primer, causing a very fragile and somewhat flaky and brittle finish. Although, it did look beautiful.
#6583
Thread Starter
RE: WACO YMF
ORIGINAL: Nathan King
Resurrecting A Dream: Restoring the Pica WACO
Today I picked up a Pica WACO that had crashed shortly after takeoff at our multi-wing fun fly last week. It's hard to fault the pilot for this when our top expert pilot (who is invited to Top Gun every year) admits this particular aircraft to have been a handful on takeoff. Some say it's the incidence, others say it's excessive stagger in the wings. I would bet it's excess weight. Any way you look at it, this particular WACO has had a troubled past, starting right from the first flight. My objective is to get this beauty restored to flying condition while simultaneously making the model less troublesome. This will be a challenge considering it involves taming the wild soul of this beast, but it is a welcome one. I think this is the beginning of a fun and exciting journey! If successful I will give myself the title of WACO Whisperer.
We had a beautiful evening, so I opened the garage and jumped right into the project. I cataloged the damage and made a parts/materials list for the rebuild. I also took the time to strip the covering off the top wing. I have elected to strip all covering from the aircraft because for some reason the color coat didn't adhere properly to the primer, causing a very fragile and somewhat flaky and brittle finish. Although, it did look beautiful.
Resurrecting A Dream: Restoring the Pica WACO
Today I picked up a Pica WACO that had crashed shortly after takeoff at our multi-wing fun fly last week. It's hard to fault the pilot for this when our top expert pilot (who is invited to Top Gun every year) admits this particular aircraft to have been a handful on takeoff. Some say it's the incidence, others say it's excessive stagger in the wings. I would bet it's excess weight. Any way you look at it, this particular WACO has had a troubled past, starting right from the first flight. My objective is to get this beauty restored to flying condition while simultaneously making the model less troublesome. This will be a challenge considering it involves taming the wild soul of this beast, but it is a welcome one. I think this is the beginning of a fun and exciting journey! If successful I will give myself the title of WACO Whisperer.
We had a beautiful evening, so I opened the garage and jumped right into the project. I cataloged the damage and made a parts/materials list for the rebuild. I also took the time to strip the covering off the top wing. I have elected to strip all covering from the aircraft because for some reason the color coat didn't adhere properly to the primer, causing a very fragile and somewhat flaky and brittle finish. Although, it did look beautiful.
Great luck getting the plane. About the pilot.....What does he normally fly? The burning question is, how long after takeoff did the crash occur? Did he have sufficient flying speed? The ideal take off with a Waco is to allow the plane to elevator off the ground, and not pull it into a nose high attitude on takeoff. If he attempted that, then a stall probably happened. Being a Top Gun pilot does not make you walk on water. I am a Top Gun Judge and every year, we see some very beautiful models lost, due to pilot error (normally getting behind the airplane).
Back to the model, once you get the lower wing rebuilt, bolt everything together, and check it for square, and pay close attention to the wing incidences from root to tip. It is very easy to introduce a warp to a wing by using an improper length interplane strut. Once you have everything square to the fuselage, and to each other (wings) then check the horizontal stab incidence. The best way to check everything is before you cover the plane, jack up the tail so that the crutch is dead level. With the covering removed, it is easy to check, using a torpedo level on the crutch, and then checking the incidences. This one should use zero on the wings, and a positive 2 on the horizontal stab. Even with mine having a variable incidence horizontal stab, you can bet that I will have it at the design setting for take off.
Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1
#6584
RE: WACO YMF
ORIGINAL: Nathan King
Resurrecting A Dream: Restoring the Pica WACO
Today I picked up a Pica WACO that had crashed shortly after takeoff at our multi-wing fun fly last week. It's hard to fault the pilot for this when our top expert pilot (who is invited to Top Gun every year) admits this particular aircraft to have been a handful on takeoff. Some say it's the incidence, others say it's excessive stagger in the wings. I would bet it's excess weight. Any way you look at it, this particular WACO has had a troubled past, starting right from the first flight. My objective is to get this beauty restored to flying condition while simultaneously making the model less troublesome. This will be a challenge considering it involves taming the wild soul of this beast, but it is a welcome one. I think this is the beginning of a fun and exciting journey! If successful I will give myself the title of WACO Whisperer.
Resurrecting A Dream: Restoring the Pica WACO
Today I picked up a Pica WACO that had crashed shortly after takeoff at our multi-wing fun fly last week. It's hard to fault the pilot for this when our top expert pilot (who is invited to Top Gun every year) admits this particular aircraft to have been a handful on takeoff. Some say it's the incidence, others say it's excessive stagger in the wings. I would bet it's excess weight. Any way you look at it, this particular WACO has had a troubled past, starting right from the first flight. My objective is to get this beauty restored to flying condition while simultaneously making the model less troublesome. This will be a challenge considering it involves taming the wild soul of this beast, but it is a welcome one. I think this is the beginning of a fun and exciting journey! If successful I will give myself the title of WACO Whisperer.
I absolutely recognize the plane. That is a cryin a-s shame. From what I have read that plane was put together with a pile of TLC. I expect the problems of flight were compound. As I understand it, the builder you got it from completed what someone else had started.
Anyway the excessive stagger combined with weight and possible balance issues (created by excessive stagger) certainly did not help out the situation. I am sure the previous owner advised you to redo the cabane struts.
I hope you will keep your "build thread" here on this thread. That plane has a little bit (a lot) of history here.
Any how, Good Luck with it. I look forward to seeing your progress.
#6585
Senior Member
RE: WACO YMF
Yes Rick, this is the airplane you are thinking of. I followed the thread, and I believe I was present for (I think) every flight of this aircraft, so I know its history. The owner did a beautiful job and really built with care. It really made me sick when the crash occured. The rebuild will be posted here unless anybody has objections. I just don't want to be known as the new guy that barged in.
Stickbuilder, I do not get in the nasty habit of knit picking other modelers flying skills, but I will say this about the crash. The man I got the airplane from has previous biplane experience and is one of the less sloppy pilots I see at the field. I respect his abilities. Frankly, the crash looked like a classic stall/spin accident. The airplane's angle of attack is allowed to get too high. The asymmetric propeller loading (among other things) causes the airplane to yaw left. Right aileron is then mistakenly added for correction which inadvertantly worsens the stall because of the increasing camber, and therefore steepening chord line on the already low (and stalled) wing. This worsens the stall on that side and causing the aircraft to begin to spin. Then again, I was not at the controls, so I can't really judge the situation. Like I said, this was not the guy's first rodeo. If it happened to him, it could happen to about anybody.
This WACO was powered with a Saito 150. By all pilot accounts and my observing the airplane it looked like sufficient power. If the airplane flies well when I'm done I will offer to sell it back to him at cost. I doubt he'll take me up on that since he has two other WACO's, but nostalgia can cause a man to do things he wasn't expecting. Why he chose me of all people to work on it I don't know, but I am sure grateful.
Stickbuilder, I do not get in the nasty habit of knit picking other modelers flying skills, but I will say this about the crash. The man I got the airplane from has previous biplane experience and is one of the less sloppy pilots I see at the field. I respect his abilities. Frankly, the crash looked like a classic stall/spin accident. The airplane's angle of attack is allowed to get too high. The asymmetric propeller loading (among other things) causes the airplane to yaw left. Right aileron is then mistakenly added for correction which inadvertantly worsens the stall because of the increasing camber, and therefore steepening chord line on the already low (and stalled) wing. This worsens the stall on that side and causing the aircraft to begin to spin. Then again, I was not at the controls, so I can't really judge the situation. Like I said, this was not the guy's first rodeo. If it happened to him, it could happen to about anybody.
This WACO was powered with a Saito 150. By all pilot accounts and my observing the airplane it looked like sufficient power. If the airplane flies well when I'm done I will offer to sell it back to him at cost. I doubt he'll take me up on that since he has two other WACO's, but nostalgia can cause a man to do things he wasn't expecting. Why he chose me of all people to work on it I don't know, but I am sure grateful.
#6586
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: palma de mallorcaSPAIN, SPAIN
Posts: 413
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: WACO YMF
hello boys,here i leave you a new pics of my waco.
I have received the especial exhaust manifold for my tunder tiger from just engines(in england).Now i`m working on the down wing,i have fixed the ailerons,the next setp is conect the alierons to the servo ,somebody knows how i can do it???????[]
I have received the especial exhaust manifold for my tunder tiger from just engines(in england).Now i`m working on the down wing,i have fixed the ailerons,the next setp is conect the alierons to the servo ,somebody knows how i can do it???????[]
#6587
RE: WACO YMF
Manuel,
Very clever hiding the engine valve covers with paint, the exhaust manifold works well to enclose the muffler in the cowl very nicely. Many of the builders have installed 2 servos in the lower wing to operate the ailerons directly instead of the single servo in the center section. This is a more direct and positive control of the ailerons than the belcrank can give by getting rid of as much play in the conections. Keep up the good work.
Very clever hiding the engine valve covers with paint, the exhaust manifold works well to enclose the muffler in the cowl very nicely. Many of the builders have installed 2 servos in the lower wing to operate the ailerons directly instead of the single servo in the center section. This is a more direct and positive control of the ailerons than the belcrank can give by getting rid of as much play in the conections. Keep up the good work.
#6588
RE: WACO YMF
Nathan,
Anytime anyone can supply info on Waco planes is welcome, especially the Pica U/YMF. It will be interesting to see how you repair the wing and other parts, everyone has their own method. My first inclnation after seeing the wing pictures was to rebuild that side form "scratch" and mate it to the otherside, but I have not seen the wing in person so I may be wrong. It apeared that the spars were broken in a couple of places, but that may be the angle of the picture. Good luck on the re-build.
Just a note (for historical accuracy): The original Waco UMF NC 14031 was painted with Insigna/Navy Blue (Dark Blue) and Cream trim. It has been restored (and is now flying again) to its original colors minus the personal markings shown in the Paul Matt drawings. (I do like the Red with White better myself).
Anytime anyone can supply info on Waco planes is welcome, especially the Pica U/YMF. It will be interesting to see how you repair the wing and other parts, everyone has their own method. My first inclnation after seeing the wing pictures was to rebuild that side form "scratch" and mate it to the otherside, but I have not seen the wing in person so I may be wrong. It apeared that the spars were broken in a couple of places, but that may be the angle of the picture. Good luck on the re-build.
Just a note (for historical accuracy): The original Waco UMF NC 14031 was painted with Insigna/Navy Blue (Dark Blue) and Cream trim. It has been restored (and is now flying again) to its original colors minus the personal markings shown in the Paul Matt drawings. (I do like the Red with White better myself).
#6589
Senior Member
RE: WACO YMF
The right side of the bottom wing will be rebuilt from plans. The fabric was the only thing holding that side together. A lazy person could repair the existing material, but doing so would add excessive weight. I plan to open the center sheeting and splice the spars with a double tenoned scarf joint. This particular joint will resist cross strain just as well as one solid piece. There was a lateral balance issue with the aircraft and there are a dozen nails in the end of the wing. By carefully choosing and weighing replacement material I hope to remove most (or hopefully all) of the additional ballast. If it's worth doing, it's worth doing with great care to the best of your abilities.
#6590
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ajo,
AZ
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: WACO YMF
Nathan,
I hope you will keep posting your progress on the rebuild as I am doing much the same w/ a 1/6 YMF, although I don't think mine
ever was flown. It appears to have had 2, and possibly 3 builders. The first did a good job to almost completion. The second was a wood
butcher. The possible third covered it all with monocote (poorly). Then it must been kicked around and stepped on a few times, as the wing
tips were broken off, one spar broken, etc. I am very new at this, so this forums has been extremely helpful. Good luck in your project
and keep posting...........
Bud
Waco Brotherhood #95
I hope you will keep posting your progress on the rebuild as I am doing much the same w/ a 1/6 YMF, although I don't think mine
ever was flown. It appears to have had 2, and possibly 3 builders. The first did a good job to almost completion. The second was a wood
butcher. The possible third covered it all with monocote (poorly). Then it must been kicked around and stepped on a few times, as the wing
tips were broken off, one spar broken, etc. I am very new at this, so this forums has been extremely helpful. Good luck in your project
and keep posting...........
Bud
Waco Brotherhood #95
#6592
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: palma de mallorcaSPAIN, SPAIN
Posts: 413
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: WACO YMF
Thanks skylarm for the suggestion,i have looking for a special piece from great planes,but here8in spain)is to much difficult to find some airplane harware,,sure,i will be mount one servo per aileron, i will put photos of the progress
thanks to you and everybody
thanks to you and everybody
#6593
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: palma de mallorcaSPAIN, SPAIN
Posts: 413
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: WACO YMF
Thanks skylarm for the suggestion,i have looking for a special piece from great planes,but here8in spain)is to much difficult to find some airplane harware,,sure,i will be mount one servo per aileron, i will put photos of the progress
thanks to you and everybody
kurrikan
waco brotherhood #98
thanks to you and everybody
kurrikan
waco brotherhood #98
#6594
Thread Starter
RE: WACO YMF
ORIGINAL: Wobble Wing
Put me down for two shirts-large-what ever color you come up with. I assume you will let me
know how and when to pay, etc?
Bud
Waco Brotherhood #95
Put me down for two shirts-large-what ever color you come up with. I assume you will let me
know how and when to pay, etc?
Bud
Waco Brotherhood #95
Thanks,
Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1
#6595
Thread Starter
RE: WACO YMF
Nathan,
Please do post your rebuild.
What I was getting to earlier, is that the full scale Waco does not nose up on takeoff normally, but rather lifts up like an elevator, with the airplane pretty much level. Too much nose up, and too little speed mixed with way too much engine is almost a recipe for disaster. The Saito 150 will grossly overpower the plane. P-factor was probably part of the problem as well. We weren't there to see it, but I'll almost bet that I can give you a play-by-play.
Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1
Please do post your rebuild.
What I was getting to earlier, is that the full scale Waco does not nose up on takeoff normally, but rather lifts up like an elevator, with the airplane pretty much level. Too much nose up, and too little speed mixed with way too much engine is almost a recipe for disaster. The Saito 150 will grossly overpower the plane. P-factor was probably part of the problem as well. We weren't there to see it, but I'll almost bet that I can give you a play-by-play.
Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1
#6596
Senior Member
RE: WACO YMF
Well, you guys asked for it.
Since the aircraft is subject to excessive g-forces upon crashing, I checked the joints in the top wing for cracks or loosening and found a couple of pieces that were loose. I would recommend people get into this habit when working on a crashed aircraft, even if the piece looks fine. It would be a pity to lose the aircraft right after a rebuild from missing a defective part. Attention must be paid to detail with restorations.
Since the aircraft is subject to excessive g-forces upon crashing, I checked the joints in the top wing for cracks or loosening and found a couple of pieces that were loose. I would recommend people get into this habit when working on a crashed aircraft, even if the piece looks fine. It would be a pity to lose the aircraft right after a rebuild from missing a defective part. Attention must be paid to detail with restorations.
#6597
Senior Member
My Feedback: (16)
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Armstrong,
BC, CANADA
Posts: 1,514
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: WACO YMF
Yup, no problem guys, all is well, thanks for your concern []
Broke all four top wing spars on top and bottom wing and the horizontal stab, we're fixed and back in the air. One of the best parts about scratch building, you remember everything!
Broke all four top wing spars on top and bottom wing and the horizontal stab, we're fixed and back in the air. One of the best parts about scratch building, you remember everything!
#6598
Thread Starter
RE: WACO YMF
ORIGINAL: Hughes500E
Yup, no problem guys, all is well, thanks for your concern []
Broke all four top wing spars on top and bottom wing and the horizontal stab, we're fixed and back in the air. One of the best parts about scratch building, you remember everything!
Yup, no problem guys, all is well, thanks for your concern []
Broke all four top wing spars on top and bottom wing and the horizontal stab, we're fixed and back in the air. One of the best parts about scratch building, you remember everything!
Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1
#6599
RE: WACO YMF
Manuel.
Another source of instruments is from J-Tec http://www.jtecrc.com/ . Theirs are cheaper but more work. You get a decal sheet with 83 instrument faces (color or B&W) and 2 sheets of bezels. You then have to find the right size tubing for the housing and assemble the instrument and install. They do have "sets" from 1/12th to 1/3rd scale and may be an alterative to the ProPagTeam instruments. I have not used them myself but have seen the smaller sets in the LHS.
Another source of instruments is from J-Tec http://www.jtecrc.com/ . Theirs are cheaper but more work. You get a decal sheet with 83 instrument faces (color or B&W) and 2 sheets of bezels. You then have to find the right size tubing for the housing and assemble the instrument and install. They do have "sets" from 1/12th to 1/3rd scale and may be an alterative to the ProPagTeam instruments. I have not used them myself but have seen the smaller sets in the LHS.
#6600
RE: WACO YMF
I was very tempted to order the color instrument panel set in 1/6th scale for my Waco SRE, but then discovered that they charge $30.00 for the shipping costs to Europe... [sm=omg_smile.gif]
I really don't understand that! Very dissapointing.
I really don't understand that! Very dissapointing.